tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post1441445161741115185..comments2023-09-05T09:06:09.136-05:00Comments on Atop the Fourth Wall: Justice League: Cry for Justice #5-7Lewis Lovhaughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06724769374732321363noreply@blogger.comBlogger193125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-26075893911935582462014-11-03T18:00:46.599-06:002014-11-03T18:00:46.599-06:00Part 2, 8:49: "[re: old Titans comics] I can&...Part 2, 8:49: "[re: old Titans comics] I can't look at the books I enjoyed and loved anymore without thinking about this, this exploitative and badly-written piece of trash"<br /><br />Oh man, I feel you there. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, including the Star Wars Expanded Universe, but I can't revisit a lot of my favorite stories without <i>Star by Star</i> and “Legacy of the Force” in the back of my head to remind me what a shitty, undeserved send-off so many of my favorite characters canonically got. (They even got a mention in the annotated, 20th anniversary edition of “Heir to the Empire” - the suckiness, I cannot escape it.)<br /><br />Despite the fact that it wiped out so many of the characters and stories that I love, I'm actually mostly pleased that the Expanded Universe has been consigned to the trashcan, as it means the bad ending they come to is erased, along with all the character assassination (pun not intended) many of them suffered beforehand. Sorry to hear the New 52 reboot hasn't resurrected Lian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-1385394163393751932014-11-03T14:02:28.936-06:002014-11-03T14:02:28.936-06:00Part 2, 8:49: "[re: old Titans comics] I can&...Part 2, 8:49: "[re: old Titans comics] I can't look at the books I enjoyed and loved anymore without thinking about this, this exploitative and badly-written piece of trash"<br /><br />Oh man, I feel you there. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, including the Star Wars Expanded Universe, but I can't revisit a lot of my favorite stories without <i>Star by Star</i> and “Legacy of the Force” in the back of my head to remind me what a shitty, undeserved send-off so many of my favorite characters canonically got. (They even got a mention in the annotated, 20th anniversary edition of “Heir to the Empire” - the suckiness, I cannot escape it.)<br /><br />Despite the fact that it wiped out so many of the characters and stories that I love, I'm actually mostly pleased that the Expanded Universe has been consigned to the trashcan, as it means the bad ending they come to is erased, along with all the character assassination (pun not intended) many of them suffered beforehand. Sorry to hear the New 52 reboot hasn't resurrected Lian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-27261098998713264542013-07-09T12:27:11.009-05:002013-07-09T12:27:11.009-05:00While most of the comic made me angry and frustrat...While most of the comic made me angry and frustrated, as a big Green Arrow fan the ending was quite upsetting.<br /><br />I mean, I'm not saying that GA would never ever kill someone, but he wouldn't be <i>proud</i> of it. He'd be conflicted about it and he would know full well he was doing it for revenge and not justice, because as a Superhero he knows the difference between the two.<br /><br />Yelling 'Justice' as the finale doesn't make him look heroic, or even like a fallen hero. It makes him look shallow and stupid, and it lessens Lian's death by making him seem like he acting on morals and ideals, not personal feelings.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14834822293128762086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-46485325708233584772013-06-02T01:45:18.411-05:002013-06-02T01:45:18.411-05:00I think this one's probably rock bottom of the...I think this one's probably rock bottom of the review material I've seen. It's like the entire story was based around the "New Justice" idea only when it actually came time to write it the author couldn't really come up with any way in which New Justice was different than Justice Classic. Other than the torturing people, anyways. So, all that's left at the end is a ridiculous contrivance plot with a villain who's seemingly omniscient in every way except a very particular plot convenient one. <br /><br />You're welcome to your outrage over butchering the supporting cast in a desperate attempt to gain pathos but my outrage is saved for the idiocy of the "each bomb specifically tuned to thwart one particular hero's bag of tricks". Guys, you have a teleporter. Trade places. <br /><br />Oh, and if I ever have a band the name is going to be "Unnecessarily Complex Scheme For Revenge." <br /><br />Why? No reason. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832168536694773161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-18944638859629139692013-05-10T20:00:28.431-05:002013-05-10T20:00:28.431-05:00It has always bothered me that Supergirl guessed r...It has always bothered me that Supergirl guessed right but for the wrong reason. As somebody else pointed out, at this time Freddy could say SHAZAM without calling down the lightning, however I doubt the author knew that, which is why it was the basis of Supergirl's reasoning.<br /><br />If you are going to use a character, at least have your company's continuity department (does DC even have such a beast?) to bring you up to speed on their current abilities. Sewn lips would not have stopped Freddy either as he only had to think the word and will the lightning for it to come. Also, while Supergirl and Promethius might not have known, others did, as Freddy had worked with the JSA to track down Black Adam during the time when he drew his power from Isis's corpse, so Mr T(errific), at the very least, knew all about how his lightning now works.<br /><br />I also don't like how they never explained, to my knowledge, how Promethius was able to duplicate Shazam's powers.<br /><br />Another thing, Linkara, is that it was hinted in 52, Countdown and Trials of Shazam that the Marvels (and Black Marvels) were able to do spells using their lightning as a power source, so if that HAD been the real Shazam, he COULD have used his lightning to power a protection spell, but the full details were never revealed.<br /><br />Poor Freddy. DC never gave him a break. First he loses his powers after 52, then goes through the Trials to get them back, fighting the sorceress Sabina along the way. Then Billy gets depowered by Adam and Isis, a restored, pissed of wizard goes after him for stealing his name, and finally he loses his powers to Osiris, which is even more whack as he got his powers from the Lords of Magic themselves, not from the wizard.<br /><br />Now Shazam is little more than a second stringer in the new 52. At least the reboot means CfJ now never happened. A bright side maybe?<br /><br />PatrickAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11909119730369999926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-41666987110487039452013-01-18T06:38:01.449-06:002013-01-18T06:38:01.449-06:00Yeah, this really didn't feel justified.
Yes...Yeah, this really didn't feel justified. <br /><br />Yes characters acted stupid and out of character and yes the villain is impossibly badass with a convoluted plan that makes no sense but that doesn't ruin a story.<br /><br />The Dark Knight film suffers from the same problem when it comes to the Joker.<br /><br />Numerous Doctor Who stories have idiot ball moments and nonsensical villains.<br /><br />Even the hammy chanting is a staple trope of scifi and fantasy.<br /><br />Your complaints about characters dying off screen strike me also as kind of ridiculous because not only is it a staple of Doctor and scifi/fantasy stories but you yourself use offscreen "deaths" in your storylines.<br /><br />The center piece rant about Lian's death in particular seems poorly focused. It should be about how it betrays the characters (Although even then I would take issue since characters are the purview of the writer, not the audience.) but instead the rant seems to focus on the fact that a child died.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong there are some lines I do not want my fiction to cross but again Doctor Who has done far worse. The Doctor destroyed an entire universe in the Virgin New Adventures and the Doctor Who spinoff Torchwood had a miniseries all about horrible things happening to children.<br /><br />Honestly this isn't so much a review as it is the manly equivalent of a fan girl bawling her eyes out of the fact that Russell T Davies killed Ianto Jones.<br /><br />That said this is clearly an atrocious comic and I agree whole heartedly about the poor representation of women in this comic.Alexander Gordon Jahanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675324400472067460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-49084739819361509592013-01-12T00:11:20.005-06:002013-01-12T00:11:20.005-06:00My bad for Young Justice. I really need to check t...My bad for Young Justice. I really need to check this kind of stuff before I post. ^_^JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300167205633453931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-16974198346912821632013-01-10T16:10:13.081-06:002013-01-10T16:10:13.081-06:00RE: Lian in YJ.
Okay I had thought I had just mis...RE: Lian in YJ.<br /><br />Okay I had thought I had just missed a bunch. I'm pretty sure she is a baby in the current storyline though and that I think she's still with her mother.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09139941818637196445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-80768211135303971892013-01-10T05:56:53.904-06:002013-01-10T05:56:53.904-06:00@JB: I think you're mixing up your DC kids... ...@JB: I think you're mixing up your DC kids... in Young Justice, it was Traya Smith (Red Tornado's daughter) who was attacked by schoolmates, because she was Bialyan and a terror attack there had killed a classmate's parents. Lian Harper never appeared in YJ.MetFanMachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09191993046517726498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-2490992106989229962013-01-09T02:11:36.135-06:002013-01-09T02:11:36.135-06:00Although I resent Cry for justice for making Lian&...Although I resent Cry for justice for making Lian's death the punchline of a lame mini-series, I think I found a more heinous comic featuring her : Judd Winick's Outsiders #16-19, one of Winick many, many "very special" works, this one focusing on child slavery. I discovered Lian as a happy girl on Titans and Young Justice, where the most aggravating thing that happened to her was being bullied in school (by kids native of a country that her mother nuked) and having part of her hair shaved off.<br />In Winick's Outsiders ? She's abducted to be used as slave and ends up being branded. Human traffic exist and is evil, but after reading this comic, my anger was directed at the writer for treating this character as a prop. Plus I dont recall the following issues dealing with the trauma this kind of experience should leave on a personJBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07300167205633453931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-9434132687253649892013-01-02T15:44:24.289-06:002013-01-02T15:44:24.289-06:00I like how Lord Vyce turned off the lights to show...I like how Lord Vyce turned off the lights to show off the prett glowy parts of the costume! he just took that small amount of time to look badass!!!Hannahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-77256710495132494202012-09-21T23:21:50.274-05:002012-09-21T23:21:50.274-05:00I had forgotten this was the comic they killed Lia...I had forgotten this was the comic they killed Lian off in. <br /><br />It boggles my mind how that is just treated (in the comic) as just your average plot point. That poor little girl, no idea what was going on, not knowing why things were exploding.<br /><br />And then her father, he can't be there to protect her. Worse than the maiming he received by far.<br /><br />So much of this comic series seemed so pointless and it makes the little one's death even more so.<br /><br />As for the episode story, enjoyed Vyce's entrance, had forgotten he exactly made his presence known.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09139941818637196445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-10770488027934080152012-06-06T16:15:59.860-05:002012-06-06T16:15:59.860-05:00I know that since this is an older episode, you mi...I know that since this is an older episode, you might not see it, but I figured this was the most appropriate place to ask, considering, well, you know.<br /><br />Have you ever seen the new cartoon Young Justice? It recently went through a 5-year timeskip, and we found out recently that Cheshire and Roy Harper got married. Then, Cheshire left Roy, because he was being obsessed with finding the 'original' Roy, since he is a clone. Then, Jade shows up, and says that the reason she left was to find Roy the Original, so that her husband could finally get over himself...<br /><br />And be a good father to their daughter, Lian Nguyen Harper. Roy gives one of the most genuine smiles he's ever shown, and it's clear just how much he loves Lian. With the oh-so-brilliant handling of Lian here, seeing her with both her parents, who clearly adore her, is wonderful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-43965355476348786142012-03-04T02:19:54.530-06:002012-03-04T02:19:54.530-06:00I know you will porpably not respond to me, but wh...I know you will porpably not respond to me, but what are your thoughs on derecws responce? <br />http://hocof.blogspot.com/2011/01/re-atop-fourth-walls-cry-for-justice.htmlMartin Chotětickýhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17453333182036130418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-2436852416654549162012-02-27T11:22:42.075-06:002012-02-27T11:22:42.075-06:00Heh, Dona Troy could have ended it sooner had she ...Heh, Dona Troy could have ended it sooner had she not taken an arrow the the kneeert3https://www.blogger.com/profile/18175337417070719447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-50074916977617954332011-12-02T15:40:52.486-06:002011-12-02T15:40:52.486-06:00"READ IT LOVE IT , HAPPY THE LITTLE GIRL DIE ..."READ IT LOVE IT , HAPPY THE LITTLE GIRL DIE DONT GET WHATS YOUR PROBLEM SHE WASNT REAL GET OVER IT. <br /><br />READ SOMETHING BETTER LIKE THE BOYS, CONAN OR TAROT THOSE ARE BETTER THAN ANY CRAP YOU O CALLED FAVORITE SHIT YOU READ."<br /><br />Funny that you didn't mentioned all the plot holes and stupidity present in the book other than that, but I'm fair.<br /><br />And as such, I'll certainly try to enjoy these things if you can type out something without being in all caps- oops, too late. Learn how to write, moron.Lewis Lovhaughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06724769374732321363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-76222413656714955992011-12-02T13:57:01.659-06:002011-12-02T13:57:01.659-06:00READ IT LOVE IT , HAPPY THE LITTLE GIRL DIE DONT G...READ IT LOVE IT , HAPPY THE LITTLE GIRL DIE DONT GET WHATS YOUR PROBLEM SHE WASNT REAL GET OVER IT. <br /><br />READ SOMETHING BETTER LIKE THE BOYS, CONAN OR TAROT THOSE ARE BETTER THAN ANY CRAP YOU O CALLED FAVORITE SHIT YOU READ.wolf6015https://www.blogger.com/profile/16176772114953044666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-64331324848816433482011-07-07T19:30:45.567-05:002011-07-07T19:30:45.567-05:00For what it's worth, I can relate to how you f...For what it's worth, I can relate to how you feel about CfJ ruining your old favorites. <br /><br />I can't speak for everyone, but I grew up reading the Star Wars Expanded universe, esp. "Young Jedi Knights." In a nutshell, mere mention of "Legacy of the Force" sends me into a berserk state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-54398029273276099622011-07-01T10:27:24.167-05:002011-07-01T10:27:24.167-05:00I just recently re-watched this episode, and the r...I just recently re-watched this episode, and the rant about Lian's (sp?) death got me thinking.<br /><br />While I'm not a comic reader myself, I can definitely empathize with your feelings on this, and I agree with your points. Killing off this particular character, a freaking young girl who had apparently had good scenes in previous stories, at all? Bad idea. Doing it in a story she wasn't otherwise involved in? Even worse. Doing it in a story that didn't appear to do much of anything to the status quo besides killing off characters? Horriffic.<br /><br />Re-watching the episode, I noticed something that you didn't mention, something which, arguably, adds even more to just how bad this is. You mentioned that characters don't always come back in comics, and that non-super, supporting characters are relatively unlikely to come back. What I realized, while re-watching the episode, was that even if they wanted to bring back Lian, there's very little room to do so. <b>They found the body. We saw it on-panel.</b> By doing that, they pre-empted most of the possible ways the character could be brought back. She isn't really dead? They could only pull that off by having the characters who found the body be particularly idiotic. (Plus, it'd be a colossal cop-out.) It wasn't her? Again, the characters would have to be pretty idiotic to mistake a different body for her, and again, major cop-out. While I could think of a few other ways that the character could be brought back, some of which could even conceivably make for an interesting story, none of them strike me as something that would be used for a young child without powers.<br /><br />Basically, by confirming the death to this degree, it starts looking like whoever was behind the decision to kill Lian not only specifically wanted her to die, but wanted her to stay that way. Considering that the character we're talking about is a little girl, that's detestable.dkatesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-53105446845140749242011-06-24T10:25:04.635-05:002011-06-24T10:25:04.635-05:00When you said that not everyone in comics comes ba...When you said that not everyone in comics comes back, especialy not non-powered secondary characters, a thought occured to me. Wouldn't the odds of her character being brought back increase if they decided to bring her back with powers?The Letter Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04534635397775395890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-60710517373908228642011-05-08T03:58:10.751-05:002011-05-08T03:58:10.751-05:00This was a massive WHAM Episode.
I don't know...This was a massive WHAM Episode.<br /><br />I don't know what's more shocking: the angry rant against Lian Harper's death (a lot scarier than the rant against One More Day) or the brutal beat-down from Lord Vyce. The back-story behind Lord Vyce: a completely unexpected twist to the multiverse conqueror archetype. This stands out as one of the Top 10 episodes of Atop the Fourth Wall.<br /><br />I have nothing against James Robinson, but I think Cry for Justice is something that SHOULD have been better. It should have been a compelling crime thriller that examines how far are you willing to go for JUSTICE, but instead, it became an excuse to destroy the Green Arrow Family.<br /><br />I mean, if it were the constant shouts for justice or the lack of research on the characters or the deaths of those little-known characters or even Prometheus trashing the Justice League in ridiculous ways like a God Mode Sue, I might forgive DC and James Robinson. But this? I mean, maiming Roy is bad enough. But killing Lian off like that -- Why? What was the thinking process that led to her death? Did you decide that shock death and mass destruction is more important than plot and characterization? Was there some unspoken rule that heroes should never be parents? I can only imagine that if Roy Harper were to actually see this comic, he'd track down all the people who had worked on it and beat them up in a fit of rage.<br /><br />This is without a doubt one of the most hated comics ever. I don't have to remind you about how Cry for Justice has affected Roy Harper. As a result of Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal (BTW, I early await the inevitable beat-down on Rise of Arsenal), Roy Harper has went from noble hero to FBI's most wanted fugitive and psychopath criminal-killer. He's part of Titans Villains for Hire but it's only a matter of time before he double-crosses that team.<br /><br />I wish we can bring Lian Harper back, but let's face it: supporting character who die stay dead. Even if someone could bring her back to life, which I don't think will happen, things still wouldn't be OK -- especially after all this horror, this insanity.Mingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-63040222486322153632011-02-19T18:52:36.499-06:002011-02-19T18:52:36.499-06:00How is it that an Episode of Batman: The Brave and...How is it that an Episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold can clearly define Justice and Vengence through a simple comparison of the two, yet a seven issue comic totally fails. "Chill of the Night" explained Justice far better than this series ever did. In fact, according to "Chill" these guys were acting completely against Justice. It's just amazing to me that a cartoon meant for children does a better job of explaning these concepts than a comic intended for a mature audience. <br /><br />About the kid, I feel for you man. Killing off a character without real justification is sickening. Not to mention a little kid. That's just tasteless.kevmon1116https://www.blogger.com/profile/04725569793602473132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-70188059833263104562011-02-12T18:24:51.894-06:002011-02-12T18:24:51.894-06:00As a fan of Hal Jordan, I hate this thing.
As a av...As a fan of Hal Jordan, I hate this thing.<br />As a avid reader of comics, I hate this thing.<br />Fans, if you want a T-shirt of a phrase, i have a request:<br /><br />JAMES ROBINSON YOU ARE A HACK!!!!!!<br /><br />PS I am for the death penalty and I am glad that Prometheus burns in hell for his crime, but this attempt to make a anti-hero Justice League that supports capital punishment on people that ARE NOT KILLERS MAKES ME PUKE!<br /><br />Jack Linde, a loyal fan of LinkaraAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-50800340156396140692011-02-08T16:19:44.588-06:002011-02-08T16:19:44.588-06:00That is pretty appalling how Lian was killed off. ...That is pretty appalling how Lian was killed off. : ( <br /><br />On a more positive note, I'm loving the Vyce arc even more now. I think the ending made for a great change in tone. A few vids ago, Linkara was on top, winning in increasingly cheese-tastic manners (which I honestly enjoyed the over-the-topness of), and then Lord Vyce comes along with an interesting motive and near total-immunity to his arsenal and IT. GETS. REAL. Great job, Linkara. : ) Can't wait for V-Day.Samvenhttp://www.youtube.com/user/SeraphimSwordmasternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-69648329560506853522011-02-07T22:20:43.204-06:002011-02-07T22:20:43.204-06:00I'll have to drop by Animal Man's place an...I'll have to drop by Animal Man's place and use his pool too, since he lets just anyone use it. He's even in my town.<br /><br />And now, the important lesson: never ask how it can be worse. Because there is ALWAYS a way it can be worse.Nightnoreply@blogger.com