tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post8686863212547379965..comments2023-09-05T09:06:09.136-05:00Comments on Atop the Fourth Wall: The Avengers #200Lewis Lovhaughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06724769374732321363noreply@blogger.comBlogger119125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-85882575126520844782014-07-07T01:13:57.188-05:002014-07-07T01:13:57.188-05:00If I could just say something about what the Wasp/...If I could just say something about what the Wasp/Ms.Marvel bit, Wasp didn't really intend to offend Carol like that as she didn't know what happened.<br /><br />So as stupid thing for Wasp to say to Ms. Marvel, I can forgive her for that since she didn't know how she actually became pregnent.Troy Troodonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-87061805224882295592014-05-16T17:07:02.783-05:002014-05-16T17:07:02.783-05:00The Kree would impregnate Carol because the entire...The Kree would impregnate Carol because the entire species can't evolve. They must experiment on other races and combine characteristics to make better Kree. That's the whole reason the Inhumans exist in first place. Night4345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-12541256475454235192014-04-26T07:47:15.385-05:002014-04-26T07:47:15.385-05:00I have been reading all the Avengers comics from t...I have been reading all the Avengers comics from the beginning in preparation for Avengers 2. When I read this issue my first thought was "Wow. Is Linkara aware of this?" <br />Now, I'm not easily offended. I where a Cannibal Holocaust t shirt for crying out loud. But this? Yeah, this was gross. Thankfully, shortly after this Wasp was given a lot more attention in the series and became a stronger female character. She divorced her abusive husband, became more confident in herself, and even became the team leader. I think all of that may have been an attempt to make up for the sexist treatment of Ms. Marvel. I loved Ms. Marvel, and to see her leave the team like this was a joke. <br />Anyway, another great funny review. Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09098375131843812136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-42430367094686260682014-04-14T21:25:38.383-05:002014-04-14T21:25:38.383-05:00Before I go into my comment, I know this is a very...Before I go into my comment, I know this is a very late post. I just watched the video tonight after being kept busy with real life issues. I almost wanted to watch this review along with Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 but I decided not to. I think its best not to do two bad comics in a row so not to cause any mental damage.<br /><br />And, now, onto the comment....<br /><br />--------------------<br /><br />Oh, sweet Jesus Herald Christ on a gas-powered pogo stick! This is the lowest of the fucking low points for the Avengers and Carol Danvers. I can appreciate Jim Shooter taking most of the blame for this book, but it does not excuse any of the people involved in the creation of this abomination. Someone should have stood up and said something before this book went to print.<br /><br />Ultimately, all four men responsible for Avengers #200 need to be punished for this... like having a large line of fans and creators whack them in the ass with a cricket bat. And Chris Claremont gets to be the first one to do the honors.<br /><br />And, yet, this, along with Mar-ville and a few other turds, have yet to be burned. Are you ever gonna get around to that, Lewis, or are you planning something big for these awful comics? A flamethrower, perhaps?Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02458096804211542442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-82758531967766287342014-04-05T11:51:11.336-05:002014-04-05T11:51:11.336-05:00Wait a minute... This is the first comic featuring...Wait a minute... This is the first comic featuring Vision on this show, isn't it? God damnit, my 3rd favourite Marvel character doesn't get enough credit as it is and now this... Well, reading the Star Trek and Legion of Superheroes crossover should give me enough weirdly awesome to forget this krap.Felix Brunschedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17155416439869033629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-82979122205946697612014-04-05T09:44:35.474-05:002014-04-05T09:44:35.474-05:00This story... is certainly something. Did an alien...This story... is certainly something. Did an alien that didn't grasp the concept of human reproduction write this o_O ?<br /><br />Seriously, this is weirder than Bat-Baby and more disturbing than that one comic where Superman and Batman watch a bunch of extradimensional worms having an orgy and then dying.<br /><br />(Yes, that really happened. And no, I don't know why I brought up Batman twice. Must be the bees - my god.)Doreshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06287649794589606798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-80755783972826748702014-04-04T17:16:59.886-05:002014-04-04T17:16:59.886-05:00I swear I've read this issue, but I can't ...I swear I've read this issue, but I can't find a copy of it in my collection, and I don't think I borrowed it. Yes, I was offended by the Avengers' attitude to Carol's rape at the time. I'd never heard everyone else's reaction.<br /><br />Jocasta is kind of Ultron's daughter (he built her to be his wife. Which is not as squicky as this issue). Considering the upcoming Avengers movie, I thought it should be brought up.<br />Sometimes I pronounce her name 'Yocasta', sometimes the way you did. I don't know what's right.<br /><br />Hey! Most of the good stuff waf from the 80's! I associate rape and incest more with the fiction of now than back then. <i>Game of Thrones</i> anybody? Alan Moore?<br /><br />"Ch-Change"? Maybe Marcus was just trying to sing David Bowie.<br /><br />Anonymous March 31: Unlikely to be a Trek reference: I believe Linkara said this was a 1980 issue, and TWOK (Carol Marcus's first appearance) was 1982.<br /><br />Sijo: Her name was just Binary, not Binary star. For the record.<br /><br />Anonymous April 1 1:11: "It would have worked as a millstone."<br />Actually, it's a great millstone.<br /><br />So, now Marcus is Kang's son, not Immortus's son? But Kang IS immortus... Now I've gone crosseyed.<br /><br />~ MikAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-72626591091624770852014-04-03T07:53:13.164-05:002014-04-03T07:53:13.164-05:00I am surprised they didn't fight loki or someo...I am surprised they didn't fight loki or someone like that to harken back to the past of the avengers. This story is troubling, to the Deanna Troi comparisons I agree but at least in that no sexual contact was had and at least it was about a curious lifeform that wanted to know about us so chose to be born and live. In this every part of it makes me want to repell in disgust. Firstly why didn't Marcus tell the avengers about his plight and then they could help him without th whole convulted plot. Ssecondly Ms Marvel being raped and yes it was raped makes me despressed I put this akin to where wasp was eaten in ultimatium, as this is a massive wtf happened. Look mms marvel is a strong character and I do not chose to beleive she let Marcus and his weird hairstyle have her, she would fight mind ctornjl so they messed with her character as I believe she can fight some mind control. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13200951663520301839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-39368350392566109692014-04-03T01:08:15.683-05:002014-04-03T01:08:15.683-05:00Actually, I thought of ONE WAY to make this whole ...Actually, I thought of ONE WAY to make this whole comic worse.<br /><br />If Frank Miller wrote it. Vomit bag's to your left, kiddies.Maxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-78382605110852458362014-04-02T14:03:07.411-05:002014-04-02T14:03:07.411-05:00That was over 500 kinds of wrong and horrible. D:That was over 500 kinds of wrong and horrible. D:Felix Brunschedehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17155416439869033629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-7507262370108333042014-04-02T12:37:31.957-05:002014-04-02T12:37:31.957-05:00Linkara, burning is too good for Avengers #200. Th...Linkara, burning is too good for Avengers #200. The story is just too horrific and offensive to be forgotten. <br /><br />Instead, I have an idea. How about selling that copy you have on eBay? The winning bid would then have the privilege of of destroying that comic in any manner they choose with accompanying video. And the best part? The money earned would then be donated to <a href="http://www.rainn.org/" rel="nofollow">RAIIN.org</a>, a website dedicated to helping victims of sexual assault. Would you be interested in doing something like that?trent bowiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14452649259063308356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-82570951842870994222014-04-02T12:37:02.851-05:002014-04-02T12:37:02.851-05:00I can imagine his Grandfather's subtle manipul...I can imagine his Grandfather's subtle manipulation. "Does this Chloroform spell funny to you?" *thud*<br />Fuck this Comic.Arcapellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660303674869332156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-53279097359432764082014-04-02T09:56:07.846-05:002014-04-02T09:56:07.846-05:00Linkara, much respect to you for 1) subjecting you...Linkara, much respect to you for 1) subjecting yourself to this piece of trash in the first place, and 2) giving it the thrashing that it oh-so-deeply deserves.<br /><br />Having a woman, not to mention a key female superhero and role-model such as Carol Danvers, be brainwashed and raped by a man who is technically also her son, and then she develops feelings of love towards him? *shudder* Never as a comic story made me feel as disgusted as this one has.Chris Evansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-55202044005748326752014-04-02T05:19:32.606-05:002014-04-02T05:19:32.606-05:00Couple of things:
Apparently the story wasn't...Couple of things:<br /><br />Apparently the story wasn't immediately despised by everyone at the time. Some fans were more like "bleh, boring romance story", and those who actually complained about the RAPE aspect were treated as weirdos. It wasn't until later that the general sentiment that Avengers #200 wasn't just dull, but actually horrible, settled in.<br /><br />At least that's what I'm getting from this account:<br />http://carolastrickland.com/comics/msmarvel/<br />(Note: Three pages)<br /><br />The entire "accelerated pregnancy" trope is a bad cliché that usually comes out of male writers who want to get it over with quickly. To me, one of the annoying side aspects is the "super-fast growing child learning to speak in record time" idiocy. Language doesn't form itself naturally, you have to LEARN it. If you just grow up rapidly, you don't magically became capable of speech. You'd need to learn to speak rapidly, too.<br /><br />Lastly, Kurt Busiek later addressed this story during his Avengers run where the Avengers meet another version of Marcus, this time the son of Kang (who himself is an alternate version of Immortus). Upon realizing who he is (or rather, who he is an alternate version of), Carol Danvers ("Warbird" at the time) is grossed out. He comes across as a different person than his namesake, but the memories of the original Marcus still haunt Carol.Nevermorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287208603537434594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-10072591929401264132014-04-02T04:09:55.109-05:002014-04-02T04:09:55.109-05:00I always knew it was only a matter of time before ...I always knew it was only a matter of time before Linkara gets a hold of this comic.<br /><br />This was beyond any doubt one of the worst Avengers comics ever made. It's bad enough that the Avengers were acting like idiots because the plot demanded them to. It's bad enough that this ruined Ms. Marvel with this idiotic and offensive plot that would disgust even those used to incest and pregnancy erotica. It's bad enough that this thing that called itself Ms. Marvel's son and lover used mind control to accomplish its goals.<br /><br />But the worst part was the unfortunate, horrifying, and downright misogynistic implications from this ending. The Avengers just let Carol go with the thing that used mind control and basically raped her just so it could be born -- it's as if he was controlling the Avengers' minds with his mere presence! It's like they're trying to tell girls that they should marry men no matter how despicable they turn out to be because they'll love you no matter what.<br /><br />How could Marvel let this thing see print? How could these writers come up with the story in the first place? Did they feel they wrote too many good comics and wanted to see if they could come up with the most hated comic ever?<br /><br />What Marvel Comics has done to Ms. Marvel is inexcusable. However, if Avengers Annual 10 has taught us anything, it is this: something good has to come out of the most horrible stories ever.<br /><br />Anyway, this is one of the best AT4W episodes of the year.<br /><br />Now that you have finished with this atrocity, will you eventually get to Avengers: The Crossing?Mingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-58215594797303434082014-04-02T02:22:44.463-05:002014-04-02T02:22:44.463-05:00To N.: ...first time I've talked to you direct...To N.: ...first time I've talked to you directly, this is now the last. I said "whatever you are" because I have no idea what you are. If you are legitimate in your...WEIRD beliefs, you could still be f/m/QUILTBAG/I don't know. If you're just a specialized troll...same boat!<br /><br />And..."only homoerotic asexuality"...are you suggesting that "Boy's Love" stories are the ONLY acceptable forms of portraying romance? You are more messed-up than Sinfest's Sisterhood!DMasternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-9865006799694642302014-04-01T20:11:39.146-05:002014-04-01T20:11:39.146-05:00Oh, man, THIS comic. I was wondering if this infam...Oh, man, THIS comic. I was wondering if this infamous story was ever going to show up here. This story could’ve inspired “Breaking Dawn,” the fourth Twilight book. <br /><br />a) Bella and Carol wind up suddenly pregnant and have all the signs of an eight-month pregnancy in a matter of weeks.<br /> <br />b) The babies (Renesmee and Marcus) have adult intelligence at birth, age rapidly, and their aging slows down when it’s convenient.<br /> <br />c) Bella and the Avengers have completely unrealistic reactions to the pregnancies. Despite the pregnancies being highly abnormal and the fetuses possibly being, for all they know, demon abominations, they show no sign of concern and happily welcome the pregnancies as if everything will just magically work out in the end, which they have no way of knowing. The people who do have realistic reactions to the whole thing (Carol in this case and Jacob in “Breaking Dawn”) are condescendingly patted on the head and assured that everything’s going to be fine.<br /> <br />d) The births themselves are highly unrealistic. Bella’s spine is broken, she vomits up a fountain of blood, the pregnancy advances at an accelerated rate, and yet she doesn’t die halfway through the pregnancy. Marcus’ birth is the opposite, since, as was noted, there’s no pain or blood at all. Nope, Marcus might as well have been delivered by storks. <br /><br />e) Nobody cares about how the expecting mothers feel. None of the Avengers care that Carol is horrified and Edward doesn’t care that Bella wants to give birth to his child, since he's planning to abort it anyway. <br /><br />f) The contrived “romances” that were slapped together without any effort. Carol doesn’t want anything to do with her baby, but then, through the contrivance of the plot, she “falls in love" with Marcus. Jacob wanted to kill Renesmee, but then, through the contrivance of the plot, he “falls in love" with her.<br /> <br />g) Neither Stephenie Meyer nor any of the writers of this comic cared about how the lazy explanations for the romances made the characters look, because all they cared about was pairing them off and getting rid of them. Meyer didn’t care that imprinting was essentially brainwashing and that Jacob’s imprinting on Renesmee made him look like a pedophile. All she cared about was shooing Jacob offstage and getting the romance over with. The writers here didn’t care that Immortus’ machines were essentially brainwashing and that Marcus using them made him look like a rapist. All they cared about was shooing Carol offstage and getting the romance over with. <br /><br />I highly doubt that Stephenie Meyer ever read this comic, but still, kind of creepy. <br /><br />As for Marcus’s whole convoluted and ridiculous scheme of being reborn on earth...jeez. Sounds like someone with an Oedipus complex wants to have their cake and eat it too. “Oh, she’s not my ACTUAL mom, since my mother was a totally different person! ...Who just so happened to look exactly like Carol. But okay, it’s not technically incest, even though she gave birth to me, so...she still could be considered my mother. Look, it’s NOT incest, okay! It’s perfectly wholesome and romantic and there’s nothing off about me alternating between calling her Carol and calling her Mother, so there!” <br />Katherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-79465212898720445602014-04-01T19:09:22.140-05:002014-04-01T19:09:22.140-05:00Craig, I can't claim to know for sure, but I&#...Craig, I can't claim to know for sure, but I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is: Yes, N is a troll. I base this on the fact that a person who claims to be firmly against "misogynist social norms" took one look at Avengers #200 and, instead of taking the opportunity to tear into the obvious, easy target, derailed their argument into attacking fictional romance in general and, as an example, attacked one of the most well-regarded movies of all time. And in N's first comment for last week's Nova Girls comic, N decided that instead of attacking the sexist attitude of the book and its creator, it made far more sense to start talking politics, and with rather extremist views at that. I don't claim to know N's motives, but at this point, N strikes me as someone just saying things that are obviously outrageous for attention; I suggest just ignoring whatever N has to say from now on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-10638255246168035362014-04-01T18:57:09.755-05:002014-04-01T18:57:09.755-05:00@Tracey: I didn't mean that I'm slut-shami...@Tracey: I didn't mean that I'm slut-shaming Power Girl; I meant that the comic itself was doing the slut-shaming, portraying her as a bad person for not knowing who the father of her child was. doug.glassmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18018711097234509826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-23369675225611741592014-04-01T18:25:44.797-05:002014-04-01T18:25:44.797-05:00Ughh. Now I know why I was so sick today. Learning...Ughh. Now I know why I was so sick today. Learning that this garbage of a comic exits.<br /><br />Hilarious threatening us with the magic gun.<br /><br />Thank you for the X-men clip btw.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07766433104150558520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-44905020322387534002014-04-01T17:59:34.720-05:002014-04-01T17:59:34.720-05:00DMaster. I am NOT a "what." You have no ...DMaster. I am NOT a "what." You have no right to call be this and prove your willful ignorance and commitment to patriarchy in doing so. This is triggering and violating of my personal sovereignty and I DO NOT consent to this sort of language being applied to my person.<br /><br />Fictional romance encourages appropriation of societal norms which protract objectification, such as that which you apply to me. Point to as many "positive examples" as you like but this sort of encouragement feeds into misogynist social norms. Only homoerotic asexuality narratives have the capacity to break down these mores. It is not just that we encourage violence through "romance" narratives, but that we have a societal obligation to deconstruct all culture that comes before.<br /><br />Craig. I absolutely believe in the cause of equality for all peoples. It may at times be difficult to understand the need for total cultural deconstruction, especially if you (and I do not suggest that you do or do not) com from a privileged position. I would encourage you to adopt several simple steps. Always ask an individual for their preferred pronouns. Do this at each meeting, no one should feel obligated to be forced into an identity. Additionally, I encourage you to embrace radical libertarianism. government reinforces societal bigotry and, through Randian Anarcho Capitalism, we can free ourselves.N.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-4760090097126171492014-04-01T16:09:12.178-05:002014-04-01T16:09:12.178-05:00To D-Master and Craig: I'm thinking N is a tro...To D-Master and Craig: I'm thinking N is a troll. <br /><br />I can accept the idea that someone could have such an off the rails view of feminism. But the combination of such radical feminism *and* support of the death of all non-wage earners like some meth tweaking Randroid, just seems too unlikely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-90305393320355761002014-04-01T14:44:11.375-05:002014-04-01T14:44:11.375-05:00N, did you seriously say that every love story in ...N, did you seriously say that every love story in every fictional medium is rape because "fictional characters can't give consent?"<br /><br />Please PLEASE tell me you're a troll and don't actually believe that bilge. Craignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-1297850859948379052014-04-01T13:31:05.537-05:002014-04-01T13:31:05.537-05:00Another great review.
I wonder, how much was the ...Another great review.<br /><br />I wonder, how much was the most expensive bad comic you have ever had to but in order to subsequently tell everybody how much it sucks to own?<br /><br />Just wondering,<br /><br />All the best.Arcapellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00660303674869332156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-13788638645084293292014-04-01T13:01:11.847-05:002014-04-01T13:01:11.847-05:00To David Dauz: I feel your pain, sir. Kaine was my...To David Dauz: I feel your pain, sir. Kaine was my entry into the Marvel universe in the pages of Scarlet Spider, but Captain Marvel is my favorite character within, and it came to be so in the same series as you. I had heard of this whole unfortunate affair, rape, acquiescence and "happily ever after" even before I picked up issue 1 of that series, yet this review still wounded me grievously. I will not be coming back to it again any time soon.<br /><br />To N.: ...fictional romance, even if it's nothing more than exchanging longing looks between two consenting adults who like each other...is automatically rape. You are a MARVEL (no pun intended) of a straw feminist, my good whatever-you-are. You are the rare example of a person that can actually make on legitimately stop and think, if only for a second "You know, maybe that Men's Rights Activist on Reddit had a point." YOU ARE THAT INSANE.DMasternoreply@blogger.com