tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post96528365727715613..comments2023-09-05T09:06:09.136-05:00Comments on Atop the Fourth Wall: Detective Comics #27Lewis Lovhaughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06724769374732321363noreply@blogger.comBlogger68125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-67937033270292645952014-03-30T12:16:03.759-05:002014-03-30T12:16:03.759-05:00Happy 75th Birthday to The Dark Knight!Happy 75th Birthday to The Dark Knight!LucasChadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-9794774674966568082014-01-26T13:02:57.742-06:002014-01-26T13:02:57.742-06:00Huh. The concept art for Batman actually looks a b...Huh. The concept art for Batman actually looks a bit like Tim Drake's second, far less liked Robin outfit. Coincidence?Dread Pirate Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00972869820511160517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-91732080309259730732013-05-30T11:21:12.650-05:002013-05-30T11:21:12.650-05:00Regarding the "Why doesn't he just kill t...Regarding the "Why doesn't he just kill the Joker?" argument, I think <i>Under the Red Hood</i> summed it up nicely.<br /><br />Batman: You don't understand. I don't think you've ever understood.<br />Jason Todd: What? What, your moral code just won't allow for that? It's too hard to cross that line?<br />Batman: No! God Almighty, no! It'd be too damned easy. All I've ever wanted to do is kill him. A day doesn't go by when I don't think about subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out to others and then... end him.<br />Joker: Awwww! So you do think about me.<br />Batman: But if I do that, if I allow myself to go down into that place, I'll never come back.<br /><br />You see, that's the thing about Batman. Batman thinks of <b>everything</b>. He's read up on serial killers, and he's smart enough to realize how easy it'd be for him to end up like Victor Zsasz. He refrains from taking even one life for the same reason someone with a family history of alcoholism would refrain from taking even one drink: once he starts, he's not sure he'd be able to stop, and given just how dangerous a man he is, that's a risk he's not willing to take.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-30936570992630924582012-12-28T08:53:38.566-06:002012-12-28T08:53:38.566-06:00Was the Possum Joke a reference to that Animaniacs...Was the Possum Joke a reference to that Animaniacs sketch where Pinky and the Brain impersonate a parody of the Adam West show?<br /><br />PS Did you also know there are Animaniacs comics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-58655650392980803292011-08-17T22:39:19.621-05:002011-08-17T22:39:19.621-05:00Wow. David Willis is probably still laughing from ...Wow. David Willis is probably still laughing from all of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-58684853942423969552011-01-23T00:48:16.526-06:002011-01-23T00:48:16.526-06:00Waaait a second... This story is from the 30s, and...Waaait a second... This story is from the 30s, and it's about a contract?<br />Let me see that thing...<br />"The party of the first part shall henceforth be known as the party of the first part."<br />I don't like that part.<br /><br />('scuse me, my Marxist tendencies are showing.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-27025565951432546892011-01-21T00:18:24.836-06:002011-01-21T00:18:24.836-06:00Well, aside from Batman's hat looking silly, t...Well, aside from Batman's hat looking silly, this is actually...pretty good. Seriously, the old bat-ears. Awful. I'm actually impressed on how familar this Batman looks, though, the under-the-cape is pretty much unchanged from the more iconic versions like the Batman TAS one. About the only thing that didn't happen in this one that is iconic of Batman is hitting someone coming up behind him.<br /><br />He's a Bond Villian, of course he has an acid tank.<br /><br />Hey! They fixed the ears, only a few issues but the origin story fixed the ears!<br /><br />\o/ The Batman Opera. I remember that.Nightnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-19446860102689091132010-11-21T02:53:06.343-06:002010-11-21T02:53:06.343-06:00Saying that the origin story remains unchanged, wa...Saying that the origin story remains unchanged, was that a subtle jab at Morisson's arc?<br /><br />Since he did change a lot of Bruce's Origin. Or atleast made it more ambigious.<br /><br />Still, great review!Haskerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358991572777841501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-77434003270077601782010-11-18T03:25:01.518-06:002010-11-18T03:25:01.518-06:00It's interesting that they ripped of a plot fr...It's interesting that they ripped of a plot from the shadow considering that Batman was a millionaire playboy who was friends with the police commissioner (like the shadow) and in the next few issues they gave him twin automatic pistols (like the Shadow uses) and a gyrocopter (like the Shadow has).<br /><br />On the other hand, Batman traveling in a normal looking car actually makes a lot more sense to me if he's a vigilante that's trying to be stealthy. I mean, how do you hide a parked Batmobile from the police consistently? That thing has to stand out like a sore thumb, in any of it's forms.shikome kido mihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11081507123236685452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-76884432330817711692010-11-17T12:04:44.549-06:002010-11-17T12:04:44.549-06:00"Violence has historically been used in lot o..."Violence has historically been used in lot of situations (for both the better and the worse) without any escalation."<br /><br />But then again, capital punishment (as it stands in the United States, anyway) and the threat thereof has pretty much been statistically proven not to have any adverse effects on the rate of violent crime for which it is supposedly used against. Look at the world around you. There's just as much (perhaps more) historical evidence of violence only ever leading to further violence.<br /><br />You could argue that in terms of a vigilante like Batman, it's not the same - the justice is swifter and more immediate. But if we think purely in terms of character - because we're all fairly aware of the real world reasons why DC Comics will never allow a villian as marketable as the Joker to die and a hero as marketable as Batman to kill him - might that not set an ill precedent for just how far Batman is willing to go?<br /><br />Grant Morrison (and for all his flaws and hit-or-miss stories, I honestly believe his heart's always been in the right place regarding Batman) had an interesting sidenote in the supplimentary material of Arkham Asylum, stating that his protrayal of Batman in that book was a bit of a critique on the creepy, borderline psychotic character that the grim and gritty 80s had made him, and that his later Batman stories painted a picture of the Dark Knight as someone honorable and very clear-minded as a *result* of what he'd done to avenge his parents' deaths. <br /><br />I'd argue that psychologically, Batman's refusal (inability?) to kill has become the lone (but strong, and very vital) thread to sanity that sustains him - and yes, has created a walking contradiction. He has turned his life completely upside down to seek a measure of vengeance for the murder of his parents that he will never fully realize because he will not willingly kill another human being, for the fear that to do so would be to forefit the last bit of humanity he has left, and would make him into something dangerous to the world beyond criminals (whether or not that would or could happen is debatable, but allow, for a moment, the premise that he believes it). <br /><br />I'd argue that he KNOWS this, and perhaps knows that it may ultimately be his greatest flaw, that for all his skill and power, for all the lives he has saved, that the one thing he cannot do could (and has, and probably will again) lead to the deaths of others. It would actually explain quite a few other common aspects of Bruce Wayne's/Batman's character: someone driven just as much by guilt as by vengeance.<br /><br />I'm not saying that's *RIGHT*, but I'm saying it's a damned interesting bit of characterization, if you're inclined to apply it.Benjamin Jhttp://soulexo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-24341004407949378632010-11-17T06:43:34.916-06:002010-11-17T06:43:34.916-06:00@Yogurt
Escalation only happens if one looses tra...@Yogurt<br /><br />Escalation only happens if one looses track of the original purpose <br />One should always remember what was the thing that pushed you over the edge <br />Establishing boundaries so to say.<br /><br />Let's look at our average superhero<br />Chances are that the majority of regular, every-day crooks they capture actually STAY in prison.<br />No need for lethal force here.<br />Then there are super-villains. People who basically won't stay in jail no matter what. <br />There are those who will rob banks, steal jewelery, occasionally injuring some guards or bystanders and cause collateral damage. <br />These can be a major annoyance and make quite a mess if they are ranked high enough on the power scale, but a quick interception can prevent most of the damage. <br />Lethal force not requited. <br />Then there are those who want to take over the world (OF COURSE!). Most villains of this sort generally play by the rules. They usually refrain from getting their hands dirty, and instead rely on goons who are basically your everyday crooks on a paycheck. <br />Stopping their plans has usually the same results as arresting them. One way of the other, they'll be back the next week. <br />The issue of lethal force with these people largely depends on how far they are willing to go. <br />Some of them only cause huge inconveniences, while others can leave entire cities in ruins and hundreds dead, and are willing to do it again. <br />And then there are the complete monsters. Those who kill, torture, rape, mutilate and disfigure because they think it's funny. <br />Each of their gigs is one huge killing-spree. Unlike the previous two types for whom death and destruction may be just side-effects, to these it's the main purpose. <br />A super-powered burglar may kill someone because he doesn't control his strength, a world-conqueror may see it as an obstacle, but to these people it is a goal unto itself. While the previous two might show regret, these never do. <br />AND THEY NEVER STOP!<br />If a hero can capture them before they can kill anyone, respect to him/her. But more often than not, by the time the hero gets them, they have left a trail of dead bodies behind them. And it will only repeat itself the next time they escape. <br />Unless you can catch them every single time before they can cause any serious damage, lethal force is fully justified!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-68793796184966918282010-11-16T22:14:37.213-06:002010-11-16T22:14:37.213-06:00"What it comes down to is this. Is it right t...<i>"What it comes down to is this. Is it right to kill one man to save 100, especially if the man is a murdering psychopath? YES. YES IT IS."</i><br /><br />You should not address this to Batman, because Batman is the one who stop the Joker, but is not his decision if he must live or must die, the ones who put it into an asylum and let him live knowing that he will scape are part of the Justice Sistem, judge, jury and lawyers; is her decision if he must be in a cage in jail, in a room of Arkham or must die.<br /><br />I surely believe that if the jury and/or the judge find it guilty and ask a dead penalty "Batman" will not do something for stop it for hapening, unless he think the joker is inocent for the crime he is sentence of dead, like in the comic of "Joker: Devil advocate"Carlos Hugohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01925989107728349110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-86250938545168672132010-11-16T21:38:10.806-06:002010-11-16T21:38:10.806-06:00hilarious your review
good work, and as everyone s...hilarious your review<br />good work, and as everyone says it's awesome your batman voice (lol at the little bruce talking as batman)<br /><br />Batman sure has changed since that.<br />And about what you said about batman R.I.P, yeah maybe it's not perfect but sure i saw batman as something else.<br />At first i thought batman (although i love it) was only a good fighter with detective skills, but R.I.P, with all the exaggeration was awesome, every plan for everything.<br />His mind is like nothing else.<br /><br />Also i would like to know what is your opinion about the return of bruce wayne and the upcoming batman inc.Bad Finisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02469530599359556642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-31866392586552886172010-11-16T21:26:34.116-06:002010-11-16T21:26:34.116-06:00Mike,
I don't know about that. The Crips and ...Mike,<br /><br />I don't know about that. The Crips and the Bloods have been killing each other for years, to the point where entire generations have kept up feuds (ie: a brother or sister is slain and their sibling joins the gang, hungry for vengeance). Each year, the hardware they have seems to get bigger and badder and each year the conflict seems to grow by leaps and bounds. Death, it seems, is unable to stop rage and vengeance.<br /><br />This is doubly so in the world of comic books, with it's clones, demonic doppelgangers, robot duplicates, previously unmentioned healing factors that would make a certain canuckle head jealous, and reality warping punches. Not to mention the fact that when people come back from the grave in comics, they tend to become stronger and develop new wacky powers.<br /><br />I'm just saying...Yogurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-63766609254593442002010-11-16T20:10:57.136-06:002010-11-16T20:10:57.136-06:00Yogurt:
"In the end, there is only escalation...Yogurt:<br />"In the end, there is only escalation."<br /><br />Not really. This only happens when either the creators want to keep a story going when after it has reached its logical conclusion or the creators want to make a fable against using violence.<br /><br />Within "civilized" society (the society that most of us live in) escalation is apparent because we cannot take a conflict to its conclusion. In life and death situations that is no longer true.<br /><br />Violence has historically been used in lot of situations (for both the better and the worse) without any escalation.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15345417487666664286noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-28597517663112998772010-11-16T20:10:50.549-06:002010-11-16T20:10:50.549-06:00Purple gloves?
So Joker and Batman have the same ...Purple gloves?<br /><br />So Joker and Batman have the same fashion sense? <br /><br />Well, marinade me and call me a steak!Jannet_Jazznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-45992570783971441962010-11-16T18:07:15.633-06:002010-11-16T18:07:15.633-06:00Awesome review. Yet now the fact that Batman used ...Awesome review. Yet now the fact that Batman used to do purple punches of justice will forever be etched into my head...And it's hilariously amazing.Dustin A. Nguyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12254614784955186882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-49668805689088974242010-11-16T15:20:02.074-06:002010-11-16T15:20:02.074-06:00So throwing people into vats of chemicals isn'...So throwing people into vats of chemicals isn't exactly a new thing for Batman, eh?<br /><br />Calls into question how much of an "accident" the event which resulted in the birth of the Joker really was.<br /><br />As for the whole "lethal/non-lethal" argument I turn to an interview with Bruce Timm about one of the original backstory ideas he had when he was working on "Batman Beyond".<br /><br />Now bear in mind, this was before the idea of "Return of the Joker" came to pass. The original idea that Timm had, was basically an alternate ending to "The Killing Joke": Barbara was crippled and Batman chases Joker out of an amusement park and into a busy street in Gotham. The struggle, combined with the horrors done to Barbara, and the Joker's constant mocking laughter and disregard for life, result in Bruce Wayne finally snapping and beating the clown prince of crime to death in the middle of the street. <br /><br />The sheer horror and violence unleashed by the Batman traumatized numerous people (including children) watching him and led Bruce Wayne to retire his cowl.<br /><br />Several years later, some of those traumatized children formed "The Jokers".<br /><br />In the end, there is only escalation. You kill a man and suddenly the hate, the rage, the desperation finds purchase in another. So you kill another, and another. Each one becoming more perverse, violent, and irredeemably evil. By the time you have a moment to catch your breath...you realize that you've become them. You realize that you proved Nietzsche's warning:<br /><br />"Beware you who fight monsters, lest you become monsters yourselves".<br /><br />Even the Punisher realizes that killing criminals hasn't made the world better or saved that many lives. In his darkest moments, Frank Castle realizes that he as much a sociopath as the men he kills and that in the end there will always be more, "Fed on the blood I have spilled, nursed on gunsmoke, brought to maturity by our war, living only to kill and then be killed, to start the cycle over again".<br /><br />Perhaps there is no satisfactory answer. Perhaps there are only small victories, and the hope you give others of a better way to live.Yogurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-1868199430168557582010-11-16T14:29:54.232-06:002010-11-16T14:29:54.232-06:00"Final Crisis? Bruce Wayne's Death? Grays..."Final Crisis? Bruce Wayne's Death? Grayson as the Batman? *pukes*<br /><br />But I guess Morrison is 'cool' in the eyes of the masses and people fear to criticise him because of his inexplicable popularity."<br /><br />Noooo, I just don't think Batman RIP is that bad. Final Crisis is just weird. And Dick Grayson as Batman has been fantastic from the 99% of writers who have written it.Lewis Lovhaughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06724769374732321363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-30799733762891980622010-11-16T12:35:18.862-06:002010-11-16T12:35:18.862-06:00I agree with Michael.
If Batman had just killed t...I agree with Michael.<br /><br />If Batman had just killed the joker he'd have saved 100's of lives, including his teenage sidekick whom he constantly put into life-threateneing situations (which seems to sit fine with the moral standards of these same people saying he shouldn't kill). Bottom line, you guys are saying how Batman should act according to your own comic-reading experiences as imposed by the pre-comics-code DC censors. <br />Batman allowing the Joker to live is far more immoral than just shooting him in the face execution style. Batman, being a highly intelligent scientist and detective, would probably realise this instead of putting human life above his own metaphysical 'moral code'. Batman incarcerating the Joker knowing that he's going to escape again in a few months and kill a bunch of innocent people, now that's psychotic. Killing Joke addressed this exact point.<br /><br />What it comes down to is this. Is it right to kill one man to save 100, especially if the man is a murdering psychopath? YES. YES IT IS.<br /><br />And believe it or not. I'm not a republican and I don't believe in the Death Penalty. However, I actually think that cheap schlock known as Allstar Batman and Robin is a more accurate portrayel of Batman than anything Grant Morrison has ever written for the character. The same Morrison who has been getting off far too lightly from the likes of Linkara and other comic book critics, online and off. Final Crisis? Bruce Wayne's Death? Grayson as the Batman? *pukes*<br /><br />But I guess Morrison is 'cool' in the eyes of the masses and people fear to criticise him because of his inexplicable popularity.Octo7https://www.blogger.com/profile/02301396287315375253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-67435643438813747662010-11-16T12:31:05.728-06:002010-11-16T12:31:05.728-06:00I didn't know you'll be going to Wisconsin...I didn't know you'll be going to Wisconsin for Daisho Con 2010. Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-89124197277932814392010-11-16T11:50:46.796-06:002010-11-16T11:50:46.796-06:00@Octo7
Batman's original creator may have envi...@Octo7<br />Batman's original creator may have envisioned Batman using guns, but Batman has been not using guns for over 50 years at this point and to have him use them again is very jarring. This as one of my main problems with Batman Begins. Batman bringing a gun to courthouse to kill Joe Chill rubs me the wrong way.<br /><br />The "the creator's vision should always be followed" argument always bugs me more than defending a later iteration. This got especially urksome for me hanging around the Star Trek fandom who thinks Gene Roddenberry was a writing god. No matter how you spin it Gene Roddenberry believed that women couldn't be starship captains. Would you argue that that should be followed?<br /><br />What the creator originally conceived is NOT always whats best for a character or a story.<br /><br />On a lighter note, did you know that there were actually plans for a broadway musical based on Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns?<br /><br />http://www.freewebs.com/batman_themusical/home.htmJosephRipkenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09922396293802377879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-77641510041755210102010-11-16T10:06:30.874-06:002010-11-16T10:06:30.874-06:00Oh god, your Batman voice. It was hilarious :)Oh god, your Batman voice. It was hilarious :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288365336306755338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-78638975216137793202010-11-16T09:42:15.820-06:002010-11-16T09:42:15.820-06:00If Batman had just killed the joker he'd have ...If Batman had just killed the joker he'd have saved 100's of lives, including his teenage sidekick whom he constantly put into life-threateneing situations (which seems to sit fine with the moral standards of these same people saying he shouldn't kill). Bottom line, you guys are saying how Batman should act according to your own comic-reading experiences as imposed by the pre-comics-code DC censors. <br />Batman allowing the Joker to live is far more immoral than just shooting him in the face execution style. Batman, being a highly intelligent scientist and detective, would probably realise this instead of putting human life above his own metaphysical 'moral code'. Batman incarcerating the Joker knowing that he's going to escape again in a few months and kill a bunch of innocent people, now that's psychotic. Killing Joke addressed this exact point.<br /><br />What it comes down to is this. Is it right to kill one man to save 100, especially if the man is a murdering psychopath? YES. YES IT IS.Octo7https://www.blogger.com/profile/02301396287315375253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5809126056034906096.post-85043846557723589032010-11-16T07:42:36.184-06:002010-11-16T07:42:36.184-06:00Wait- Edgar Allen Poe's house? Which one? The ...Wait- Edgar Allen Poe's house? Which one? The one in Baltimore? (Relevant solely to my selfish desire to have another paltry thing to feel pride about. Living in Maryland, it's pretty boring.)<br /> I love your work, and I'm really enjoying Secret Origins Month. I'd be lying if I said the Batman origin wasn't the one I'd been looking forward to the most! Thanks for giving us both Detective Comics 27&33!<br /> Re: The pipe-ashes-on-floor thing, I'm surprised Sherlock Holmes didn't pop into existence and smack Bruce- you'd think the World's Greatest Detective would have read Holmes' monograph on tobacco ash! :P ...I'm a geek.Dorothy Stachowiakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15232057622035426326noreply@blogger.com