You know I read both 52 and the first part of countdown and i must say your right. Countdown seemed sporadic and weirdly written at times. Unlike the way better 52. I can't wait for the review Louis keep up the good work!
Sounds like I was lucky to miss this. I'm looking forward to your review.
Based on your description of Jimmy Olsen it seems that you'll have to contact That Guy With the Glasses Headquarters for the Big Lipped Alligator Moment effect.
Oh and about Olsen, why didn't Superman save him from Nero's drill above Vulcan?
Geese....sometimes you really got to tell us what you read to get your mind's balance straight again... I mean, that much of bad comics can't be healthy...
Didio hated 52 and loved Countdown? Now I know why so many comics fans hate him.
I'd vote in favor of you reviewing Identity Crisis. IMHO, it's on the same level as Amazons attack in terms of horrible writing and characterization. If any comic deserves to burn, it's Identity Crisis.
(And if it makes you feel better, Spider-Man isn't the only one who made an idiotic and out-of-character deal with the devil. Blue Devil did the same thing. He's just a lot more obscure than Spider-Man, so it didn't get the same level of fan outrage.)
I'm actually pretty fond of Holly Robinson. She was a really good supporting character for Catwoman, especially in the Brubaker/Cooke/Allred/Stewart days (though I think Pfeifer did pretty well by her as well).
Now I'm finally beginning to understand the reasoning behind Didio hate. I started reading DC regularly around the beginning of Final Crisis/RIP, coming from a more Marvel-based background, so I was still sore from Joephisto's bullcrap, so I never really realized that Didio was pulling his own brand of poop out of his anus.
I've actually been reading issues of 52 because Criminal Records in Atlanta is awesome and still has back issues. Even if it's been kind of sporadic for me, it's still been an enjoyable series and I hope to find the Trade Paperbacks in the future.
However, when ads for Countdown started showing up in the later issues, I felt a sense of dread. Not because I knew all the things you've said about it, but because the ads themselves reeked stupidity. A full page orange background with stuff that says "JIMMY OLSON MUST DIE!" or "THE SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT!" comes off stupid to me, not suspenseful.
Ooh, low blow against New Jersey! As a resident of New Jersey, I'll have you know that it's not like Apocalypse. It's like a highway. Well...it is a highway. Seriously, once you're outside the residential areas, you can refer to wherever you need to go by simply saying which exit you're taking. :-D
Lewis, you are so brave to subject yourself to this.
I myself checked out Countdown when it was out, and practically every week I was disappointed. There were only two shining moments that I saw from that series: Riddler and Mary Marvel taking down Clayface, and the flashback to when Granny Goodness was younger (hot, bald, ruthless soldier girl.) Other than that... total crap.
I don't know how you managed to get through Amazons Attack with your sanity intact, but I pray your strength will stay with you here. Godspeed, my friend.
Not even five minutes in, and "One More Day" gets trashed. This isn't even a Marvel comic review, and you still have to get the OMD dis in.....sigh. I was waiting for the computer to 'zap' you.
And Miss Kitty F, I loved the Countdown teaser ads.Great art, intriguing concepts. I was reading silver and bronze age olsen and old eclipso and Marvel family comics at the time,so I was more psyched about the cast in Countdown than the cast of characters in 52.
Or course, Countdown turned out to be downright awful. Ironically it was 52 that was good. I thought Countdown would be better. I was so, so wrong.
What exactly has Jason Todd done since he came back from the dead that was actually interesting? It seems he's just been going around stealing other people's superhero identities and doing his best to egregiously violate his mentor's no-kill policy. He just needs to die again. Really. DC can even have the fans vote for it again. I guarantee you it would be by a wider margin this time.
First of all, I just wanna say thanks in regards to your defense of furries. It's always good to know there are non-judgmental people on the internet.
Second, I'm really excited for this review. One of the reasons I never got into comics is because of continuity. Slogging through thousands of comics to catch up with a newer one just doesn't sound...interesting to me. And this sounds like a comic FULL of those continuity issues. Know what I mean?
Ooh boy, there's no going back now. I wish you the best of luck goign through this mutated aberration of lameness, Linkara. It's very brave of you to endure this just to satisfy our eternal pestering^^.
However, I would be...I don't know, lukewarm about a review of Identity Crisis. I actually love this series (along with basically everything Meltzer has done in the DCU) for its story and characterization, but maybe it's just I don't know all the elements involved.
So...I don't know. Do as you like, maybe I'll actually enjoy disagreeing with you, or maybe you'll manage to convince me (which I'd rather not).
You forgot "Forerunner" the brand new character created for Countdown to Adventure who was supposed to play a key role in this but... doesn't. To be fair I forgot about her too.
Sean McKeever's a strange cat in terms of career work. All of his stuff at Marvel ranged from excellent to pretty good, and I've heard nothing but nice things about "The Waiting Place."
I can't tell if his Titans run was filled with things like the infamous "Wonderdog" issue because of editorial meddling or if he was trying to stop being pigeonholed as the guy who writes low-key emotional stories about teenagers (Spidey Loves Mary Jane, Sentinel, etc.)
Great proglogue for the dissappointment that is Countdown.
When I first heard about Countdown I was a little concered for my pocket book, but since 52 was good, I decided to check it out. Until, the book just wasn't doing it for me. I believe I dropped the book around #49. And thank goodness I did.
One thing I've wanted to ask is why you dislike series like Identity Crisis and The Boys.
As if the Batman fandom didn't hate you enough for the whole 'Stephane Brown Robin Case' mess, you go and hate 52? And love this mess? MY GOD. Somebody please kill this man and get a COMPETENT person to deal with this stuff.
You poor, brave man. Somebody should send you an award for dealing with this nonsense constantly. And for your furry comment.
And as far as reviewing Identity Crisis goes....PLEASE DO IT. D: My god, that comic is just a mess. You want another bad comic? Try the War Games saga they did in Batman....the less we speak of that mess, the better. Unless you're talking about it. Then it's funny.
wow......I am on pins and needles waiting to hear you rip Countdown a new one!
The review is gonna be epic awesome!
I liked this video, because it's interesting learning all this other stuff about it I was unaware, most of all being the editorial mandate of he whole project on Countdown.
Curious to see how all these characters got from before this and to the point where they were countdownized
So until someone ends up waking up to find that the whole Countdown debacle and everything after was a dream, MAKE MINE LINKARA
I've been eagerly awaiting this for a while, excited!
Also, seeing as you mentioned the New Gods I think you should check out Darkseid Minus New Gods: http://www.4thletter.net/2009/06/and-now-darkseid-minus-new-gods/
Technically, since it's still an anthropomorphized animal, it's still a "furry". Also, technically, there are very few insect-based furry characters in the fandom, so I guess it doesn't matter much.
Oh, and Harley Quinn is a lesbian for Poison Ivy, so don't expect to get into her checkerboard tights, anytime soon :P
oh 2007, you were such a forgettable year of continuity, especially since you were completely ignored when final crisis was published.
SO are you covering the thousands of miniseries like DOTNG? *seizure* I'm still pissed off at that. If you want a can donate it, it surely won't be missed in my collection of fourth world comics.
in the foreword Starlin actually admits to the whole mandate being a bad idea, doesn't that make you want to pick it up?
You know, I actually enjoyed parts of Countdown. The Piper/Trickster stuff, for example, while utterly pointless in the end, was lots of fun while it lasted, the Harley/Holly stuff was just plain good, as you said... and somehow, the "Jimmy Olsen, Bugfucker" stuff (as it was known on scans_daily) was surprisingly adorable, if, again, utterly pointless in the end. Oh, and also on the good side of the roster, bringing the DC Animated Universe into continuity as Earth-18.
I'll save the BAD stuff for you, though, because that's your schtick, anyway, and honestly... I don't want to relive those parts! (Some of it *still* makes me want to strangle people...)
I will point out that I've heard rumblings that it wasn't *quite* as insular in the writing as you described; while each issue was scripted by a different one of the four writers, with Dini basically acting as an editor/coordinator, I always heard that they also split up the book where each one came up with the general plot for each branch of the story. (For example, it's generally agreed that Dini plotted the Harley/Holly story.)
So you had the editors telling the writers where to go with the story, the writers each coming up with a general route to get there for one section of the story... and then rotating writers scripting it for the continuity issues mentioned. Add in Grant Morrison demanding, at the last minute, that they UN-resolve a storyline that they had pretty much resolved, forcing the reset button to be pushed on it with two weeks to go... and then deciding not to bother with having anything in "Countdown To Final Crisis" actually *having any effect on Final Crisis* and... ugh.
I hope that if you ever do an IDENTITY CRISIS review, I hope you mention that it seems Alex Ross' JUSTICE miniseries appeared to be a measured response (or a Take That) to IC.
If I may just add my 2 cents here, I remember that in the run-up to Countdown's release, Trickster and Pied Piper's situation was described as similar to the plot of "The Defiant Ones", an Oscar-winning, very deep film. As the year went by, the description was changed in interviews--first to a slightly less epic and heroic movie, and then finally to just another average shallow comedy. (The names I don't remember--you can search for the interviews if you're feeling brave enough.) I think that progression kinda sums up Countdown in a nutshell.
given that you started out saying you wouldn't do any event comics in an early video. Then you do amazons attack, and announce a countdown to final crisis review, as well as a possible review for battle for bloodhaven and maybe even identity crisis (how many events had the word crisis in it?), and the obvious every other joke about OMD, does this mean you are reconsidering your original stance on doing event comics on AT4W? or is there another brillant explination you got there?
I said in the original intro that I was doing an Amazons Attack review. Countdown is not an event comic, nor is Battle for Bludhaven. I'm not doing One More Day.
You didn't like Identity Crisis? I thought it was one of the better crossovers. Only thing was the ending. All that build up and you think it's gonna be some evil conspiracy or something, and it's so ordinary in comparison to what I imagined. I liked it better than Infinite Crisis. Still, 52 was the best.
I hope the Countdown review doesn't kill you. All 51 in one go. Break it up a little for your own safety, man.
Forgot this, but wasn't Blue Beetle #16 (the one with the "I AM A DENTIST!" bit) a tie-in to Countdown? If so, then that is the only redeeming thing about Countdown.
I'm also kinda surprised that you didn't mention that Paul Dini scripted several scenes in a Harley/Poison Ivy story where it showed both women nude or in their bra and panties.
Great work, Linkara. Though I'm confused by your definition of "event". Countdown isn't an Event Comic but One More Day is? Technically speaking, any extra-hyped, special format comic is an "event." Or that seems to be the general use in comics.
Anyway, you should totally do Identity Crisis. That's where DC comics started going downhill; "Hey, rape and murder sell hero comics now, let's focus on that from now on!" -_- I hate it with a passion, and one of your excellent videos might be therapeutic. ;)
I suspect that Donna hasn't been introduced in the New 52 yet just because the editorial staff wants to get her origin straight, first. Hence, why it's taken 3 years.
You know I read both 52 and the first part of countdown and i must say your right. Countdown seemed sporadic and weirdly written at times. Unlike the way better 52. I can't wait for the review Louis keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteSounds like I was lucky to miss this. I'm looking forward to your review.
ReplyDeleteBased on your description of Jimmy Olsen it seems that you'll have to contact That Guy With the Glasses Headquarters for the Big Lipped Alligator Moment effect.
Oh and about Olsen, why didn't Superman save him from Nero's drill above Vulcan?
Geese....sometimes you really got to tell us what you read to get your mind's balance straight again... I mean, that much of bad comics can't be healthy...
ReplyDeleteShould I do something? I should do something but...should I do something?
ReplyDeleteOkay Lewis, Countdown may have sucked balls but what about Final Crisis? Did that one sucked as well?
ReplyDeleteDidio hated 52 and loved Countdown? Now I know why so many comics fans hate him.
ReplyDeleteI'd vote in favor of you reviewing Identity Crisis. IMHO, it's on the same level as Amazons attack in terms of horrible writing and characterization. If any comic deserves to burn, it's Identity Crisis.
(And if it makes you feel better, Spider-Man isn't the only one who made an idiotic and out-of-character deal with the devil. Blue Devil did the same thing. He's just a lot more obscure than Spider-Man, so it didn't get the same level of fan outrage.)
good luck you poor poor man I have been a fan since sewerman's comic and hope you stay sane
ReplyDeleteThanks Linkara, both for doing this Countdown project and bringing so far why it is bad.
ReplyDeleteI'm been trying to have people explain to me why it's was a bad series but no one really elaborates.
Can't wait for next week!
I'm actually pretty fond of Holly Robinson. She was a really good supporting character for Catwoman, especially in the Brubaker/Cooke/Allred/Stewart days (though I think Pfeifer did pretty well by her as well).
ReplyDeleteThen she got countdownized.
Now I'm finally beginning to understand the reasoning behind Didio hate. I started reading DC regularly around the beginning of Final Crisis/RIP, coming from a more Marvel-based background, so I was still sore from Joephisto's bullcrap, so I never really realized that Didio was pulling his own brand of poop out of his anus.
ReplyDeleteI've actually been reading issues of 52 because Criminal Records in Atlanta is awesome and still has back issues. Even if it's been kind of sporadic for me, it's still been an enjoyable series and I hope to find the Trade Paperbacks in the future.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when ads for Countdown started showing up in the later issues, I felt a sense of dread. Not because I knew all the things you've said about it, but because the ads themselves reeked stupidity. A full page orange background with stuff that says "JIMMY OLSON MUST DIE!" or "THE SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT!" comes off stupid to me, not suspenseful.
Ooh, low blow against New Jersey! As a resident of New Jersey, I'll have you know that it's not like Apocalypse. It's like a highway. Well...it is a highway. Seriously, once you're outside the residential areas, you can refer to wherever you need to go by simply saying which exit you're taking. :-D
ReplyDeleteThis is gonna be epic!
ReplyDeleteAlso, why is it that Editors seem to hate all life everywhere?
Nice comment on furries. They seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to fandoms.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, and I wished to show my support. ^^
ReplyDeleteLewis, you are so brave to subject yourself to this.
ReplyDeleteI myself checked out Countdown when it was out, and practically every week I was disappointed. There were only two shining moments that I saw from that series: Riddler and Mary Marvel taking down Clayface, and the flashback to when Granny Goodness was younger (hot, bald, ruthless soldier girl.) Other than that... total crap.
I don't know how you managed to get through Amazons Attack with your sanity intact, but I pray your strength will stay with you here. Godspeed, my friend.
Not even five minutes in, and "One More Day" gets trashed. This isn't even a Marvel comic review, and you still have to get the OMD dis in.....sigh. I was waiting for the computer to 'zap' you.
ReplyDeleteAnd Miss Kitty F, I loved the Countdown teaser ads.Great art, intriguing concepts. I was reading silver and bronze age olsen and old eclipso and Marvel family comics at the time,so I was more psyched about the cast in Countdown than the cast of characters in 52.
Or course, Countdown turned out to be downright awful. Ironically it was 52 that was good. I thought Countdown would be better. I was so, so wrong.
What exactly has Jason Todd done since he came back from the dead that was actually interesting? It seems he's just been going around stealing other people's superhero identities and doing his best to egregiously violate his mentor's no-kill policy. He just needs to die again. Really. DC can even have the fans vote for it again. I guarantee you it would be by a wider margin this time.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I just wanna say thanks in regards to your defense of furries. It's always good to know there are non-judgmental people on the internet.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I'm really excited for this review. One of the reasons I never got into comics is because of continuity. Slogging through thousands of comics to catch up with a newer one just doesn't sound...interesting to me. And this sounds like a comic FULL of those continuity issues. Know what I mean?
Good luck with the next review!
-Artimus
Ooh boy, there's no going back now. I wish you the best of luck goign through this mutated aberration of lameness, Linkara. It's very brave of you to endure this just to satisfy our eternal pestering^^.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I would be...I don't know, lukewarm about a review of Identity Crisis. I actually love this series (along with basically everything Meltzer has done in the DCU) for its story and characterization, but maybe it's just I don't know all the elements involved.
So...I don't know. Do as you like, maybe I'll actually enjoy disagreeing with you, or maybe you'll manage to convince me (which I'd rather not).
You forgot "Forerunner" the brand new character created for Countdown to Adventure who was supposed to play a key role in this but... doesn't. To be fair I forgot about her too.
ReplyDeleteSean McKeever's a strange cat in terms of career work. All of his stuff at Marvel ranged from excellent to pretty good, and I've heard nothing but nice things about "The Waiting Place."
I can't tell if his Titans run was filled with things like the infamous "Wonderdog" issue because of editorial meddling or if he was trying to stop being pigeonholed as the guy who writes low-key emotional stories about teenagers (Spidey Loves Mary Jane, Sentinel, etc.)
Get ready for pain! 51 issues of pain, to be exact!
ReplyDeleteDid they use different artists for each issue as well?
I have to ask- is there a way to download those different theme songs that people sent in?
ReplyDeleteGreat proglogue for the dissappointment that is Countdown.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first heard about Countdown I was a little concered for my pocket book, but since 52 was good, I decided to check it out. Until, the book just wasn't doing it for me. I believe I dropped the book around #49. And thank goodness I did.
One thing I've wanted to ask is why you dislike series like Identity Crisis and The Boys.
DIDIOOOOO D:<
ReplyDeleteAs if the Batman fandom didn't hate you enough for the whole 'Stephane Brown Robin Case' mess, you go and hate 52? And love this mess?
MY GOD. Somebody please kill this man and get a COMPETENT person to deal with this stuff.
You poor, brave man. Somebody should send you an award for dealing with this nonsense constantly. And for your furry comment.
And as far as reviewing Identity Crisis goes....PLEASE DO IT. D: My god, that comic is just a mess. You want another bad comic? Try the War Games saga they did in Batman....the less we speak of that mess, the better. Unless you're talking about it. Then it's funny.
Keep up the great work. :D
wow......I am on pins and needles waiting to hear you rip Countdown a new one!
ReplyDeleteThe review is gonna be epic awesome!
I liked this video, because it's interesting learning all this other stuff about it I was unaware, most of all being the editorial mandate of he whole project on Countdown.
Curious to see how all these characters got from before this and to the point where they were countdownized
So until someone ends up waking up to find that the whole Countdown debacle and everything after was a dream, MAKE MINE LINKARA
@Thoom
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as too much One More Day bashing =P
I've been eagerly awaiting this for a while, excited!
ReplyDeleteAlso, seeing as you mentioned the New Gods I think you should check out Darkseid Minus New Gods: http://www.4thletter.net/2009/06/and-now-darkseid-minus-new-gods/
Whoops. I meant to put that "Countdown to Ultimatum" idea here.
ReplyDeleteTechnically, since it's still an anthropomorphized animal, it's still a "furry". Also, technically, there are very few insect-based furry characters in the fandom, so I guess it doesn't matter much.
ReplyDeleteOh, and Harley Quinn is a lesbian for Poison Ivy, so don't expect to get into her checkerboard tights, anytime soon :P
Yes, I know, but I wanted a joke for that segment.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think you've got it the other way around - Ivy is lesbian for Harley. ^_~
Keyser Söze joke. Always great.
ReplyDeleteoh 2007, you were such a forgettable year of continuity, especially since you were completely ignored when final crisis was published.
ReplyDeleteSO are you covering the thousands of miniseries like DOTNG? *seizure* I'm still pissed off at that. If you want a can donate it, it surely won't be missed in my collection of fourth world comics.
in the foreword Starlin actually admits to the whole mandate being a bad idea, doesn't that make you want to pick it up?
You know, I actually enjoyed parts of Countdown. The Piper/Trickster stuff, for example, while utterly pointless in the end, was lots of fun while it lasted, the Harley/Holly stuff was just plain good, as you said... and somehow, the "Jimmy Olsen, Bugfucker" stuff (as it was known on scans_daily) was surprisingly adorable, if, again, utterly pointless in the end. Oh, and also on the good side of the roster, bringing the DC Animated Universe into continuity as Earth-18.
ReplyDeleteI'll save the BAD stuff for you, though, because that's your schtick, anyway, and honestly... I don't want to relive those parts! (Some of it *still* makes me want to strangle people...)
I will point out that I've heard rumblings that it wasn't *quite* as insular in the writing as you described; while each issue was scripted by a different one of the four writers, with Dini basically acting as an editor/coordinator, I always heard that they also split up the book where each one came up with the general plot for each branch of the story. (For example, it's generally agreed that Dini plotted the Harley/Holly story.)
So you had the editors telling the writers where to go with the story, the writers each coming up with a general route to get there for one section of the story... and then rotating writers scripting it for the continuity issues mentioned. Add in Grant Morrison demanding, at the last minute, that they UN-resolve a storyline that they had pretty much resolved, forcing the reset button to be pushed on it with two weeks to go... and then deciding not to bother with having anything in "Countdown To Final Crisis" actually *having any effect on Final Crisis* and... ugh.
I hope that if you ever do an IDENTITY CRISIS review, I hope you mention that it seems Alex Ross' JUSTICE miniseries appeared to be a measured response (or a Take That) to IC.
ReplyDeleteProperly awesome prologue.
ReplyDeleteIf I may just add my 2 cents here, I remember that in the run-up to Countdown's release, Trickster and Pied Piper's situation was described as similar to the plot of "The Defiant Ones", an Oscar-winning, very deep film. As the year went by, the description was changed in interviews--first to a slightly less epic and heroic movie, and then finally to just another average shallow comedy. (The names I don't remember--you can search for the interviews if you're feeling brave enough.) I think that progression kinda sums up Countdown in a nutshell.
This looks like it's going to be awesome! I can't wait for part one! Bring on the crap!
ReplyDeleteFor the record, that's everyone's reaction to Harley Quinn.
ReplyDeletehey, Mr. Linkara, question if i may
ReplyDeletegiven that you started out saying you wouldn't do any event comics in an early video. Then you do amazons attack, and announce a countdown to final crisis review, as well as a possible review for battle for bloodhaven and maybe even identity crisis (how many events had the word crisis in it?), and the obvious every other joke about OMD, does this mean you are reconsidering your original stance on doing event comics on AT4W? or is there another brillant explination you got there?
I said in the original intro that I was doing an Amazons Attack review. Countdown is not an event comic, nor is Battle for Bludhaven. I'm not doing One More Day.
ReplyDeleteBattle for Bludhaven? Poor Nightwing. Cruddy story already.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't like Identity Crisis? I thought it was one of the better crossovers. Only thing was the ending. All that build up and you think it's gonna be some evil conspiracy or something, and it's so ordinary in comparison to what I imagined. I liked it better than Infinite Crisis. Still, 52 was the best.
ReplyDeleteI hope the Countdown review doesn't kill you. All 51 in one go. Break it up a little for your own safety, man.
Blake:
ReplyDeleteHe's doing the Countdown review in two parts. Part one this coming Monday, and Part two the following Monday.
As for the Countdown itself, Linkara, rip this piece of crap a new one.
Forgot this, but wasn't Blue Beetle #16 (the one with the "I AM A DENTIST!" bit) a tie-in to Countdown? If so, then that is the only redeeming thing about Countdown.
ReplyDeleteI'm also kinda surprised that you didn't mention that Paul Dini scripted several scenes in a Harley/Poison Ivy story where it showed both women nude or in their bra and panties.
ReplyDeleteGreat work, Linkara. Though I'm confused by your definition of "event". Countdown isn't an Event Comic but One More Day is? Technically speaking, any extra-hyped, special format comic is an "event." Or that seems to be the general use in comics.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, you should totally do Identity Crisis. That's where DC comics started going downhill; "Hey, rape and murder sell hero comics now, let's focus on that from now on!" -_- I hate it with a passion, and one of your excellent videos might be therapeutic. ;)
I suspect that Donna hasn't been introduced in the New 52 yet just because the editorial staff wants to get her origin straight, first. Hence, why it's taken 3 years.
ReplyDelete