Saturday, March 19, 2011

THOOM! - A Podcast I Appeared On!

Yep, we have another podcast for you guys to check out!

Yeah, if you're wondering why all the podcasts lately, it's because from December through February I held off ALL podcast appearances from people because I was so busy working on the story stuff of AT4W. As such, everybody wants to grab me for my thoughts and questions on everything.

And here's another one! If you ever wondered why I dislike Identity Crisis, well, we have a brief debate about it which you can listen to:

HERE!

27 comments:

Psychotime said...

I'm looking forward to the official review based on this podcast.

Anonymous said...

Because you were busy? I call bullshit just face Lewis you think you are better than anyone who made any of those podcasts. You spent months making a horrible, horrible, story. When instead you could humble yourself and actually do something to show appreciation to your fans.

Thoom said...

Me too, Pscyhotime.

And thanks, Lewis, for posting a link to the show on the AT4W blog.

Wilhelmina Raye said...

Am officially keeping my fingers crossed that you'll do an actual review of this series. Personally, I found the revelations about the Justice League's retcon crap far, far worse than the murder mystery. The mystery was stupid, but it didn't make me bang my head against the wall, mainly because it led to a lot of good moments, like the stuff with Tim Drake, Hal Jordan, etc. Moreover, I really liked the format of Identity Crisis — a Crisis Crossover with loads and loads of characters that wasn't a big world-changing event or cosmic continuity bomb or gigantic battle against a huge disaster. Just a character-driven mystery story. I liked that idea.

However, the mind-wiping retcon crap just pissed me off more than can be imagined, and it wasn't just my first impression of shock that makes me dislike it: the first time I read it, I didn't really like the revelations. The second time, they really irritated me, and after that, the more I thought about the debacle, the worse and worse it got and the implications became nastier and nastier. TvTropes has a term for it: Fridge Logic. Something that looks okay on the surface actually is much dumber, nastier, ickier, crueler, or nonsensical once you start following its implications. And that pretty sums up Identity Crisis — the more you think about it, the worse it gets.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Because you were busy? I call bullshit just face Lewis you think you are better than anyone who made any of those podcasts. You spent months making a horrible, horrible, story. When instead you could humble yourself and actually do something to show appreciation to your fans."

If I thought I was better than any of them, why would I agree to appear on any of them?

Anonymous said...

I'm curious now that you mentioned some of the comics you're planning on going over in the future...

How far in advance do you plan your schedule for episodes?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"How far in advance do you plan your schedule for episodes?"

Usually pretty far, though the schedule is always subject to change. At this moment, I have it planned up through November for the next Secret Origins Month.

Anonymous said...

The only reason that you agreed was because they paid you. Why they did I don't know you have no talent. Ok you have a little more talent than Spoony but thats not saying much. The only reason you do this is because you can't work a real job. Don't spout no bullshit saying this is a real job. At least you only talk shit about your fans behind there backs.

Jill said...

Wow! That's a lot of planning! But I guess that's a good idea, I'm betting planning far ahead gives you the time to come up with the best jokes and ideas for your reviews!

....You aren't going to give us any hints, are you?

:(

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"The only reason that you agreed was because they paid you. Why they did I don't know you have no talent. Ok you have a little more talent than Spoony but thats not saying much."

As a matter of fact, I have not accepted a single dollar from ANYONE to do a podcast. THOOM offered me $50 to do so but I turned down payment - I do the podcasts so I can answer questions from fans and they can hear more about me because they're curious. Shows how much you know, dumbass.

"The only reason you do this is because you can't work a real job. Don't spout no bullshit saying this is a real job. At least you only talk shit about your fans behind there backs."

More than enough money to live on AND I have to pay taxes on it? Yeah, it's a real fricking job, asshole. It's just that it's probably a better job than whatever the hell you have to do for a living, and you can't accept that. And please cite an example where I talk about my fans in a negative manner behind their backs. I'd love to know how exactly you got such information, especially since I DON'T.

Thoom said...

Actually, I had to pay Linkara 100 dollars for the interview.

I kid, I kid. I did offer Linkara 50 dollars and he turned down the offer and advised me that he and his peers do this podcast interviewing stuff for free. They just want to talk to their viewers and answer some questions, maybe get some more viewers.

I am grateful for his time and the advice.

Thoom said...

Wilhemina Raye wrote:

"Something that looks okay on the surface actually is much dumber, nastier, ickier, crueler, or nonsensical once you start following its implications. And that pretty sums up Identity Crisis — the more you think about it, the worse it gets."

Why, Wilhelmina? Is it because stories like 'Identity Crisis' imply that these characters aren't square jawed, one dimensional avatars of the ideals of justice (see Silver and Bronze age DC) but instead human beings with flaws?

Critics of stories like this always implay the a crack in the hero's moral armor (in this case, the JLA's fear for their loved ones' safety) means that the heroes are on a moral decline into corruption or evil.

People always infer that stories with polarizing conflicts over ethics, like Identity Crisis and Marvel's Civil War change the otherwise consistent behavior of their favorite superhero characters. I think these tales bring them to life, like the difference between the image of Pinocchio as a wooden toy and the image of him as a real boy.

In IC and CW, the supers are fleshed out and behaving like real people who are affected by their jobs and end up making mistakes because of it. But they are still good people who keep striving to make the world a better place. These are not one dimensional characters. They feel...real.

Anyway, what are these world shattering "implications" that you speak of, Wilhemenia? You didn't cite one example of the mind wiping retcon that would make events in the DCU timeline irrelevant or unsustainable as a result of Identity Crisis.

Benjamin J said...

Jeez...is blogspot giving out "frequent troller" miles this week...?

Anywhoo, I actually enjoyed Identity Crisis for the most part, though I can certainly see the arguments against it. (SPOILERS...> I actually thought the mind-wiping aspect of the story was really the most interesting, but it sort of didn't go far enough. Meltzer concentrated more on the murder mystery, but I felt like the mindwiping (particularly of Batman) was something much more unique and worth following. By the time the mystery was resolved and the ramifications of the mindwipes could potentially be addressed - the story was over. Kind of disappointing. Was it ever followed up on elsewhere?

As for the Doctor Light/Sue Dibny episode...well, I think it's generally acknowledged that over the past decade, there's some pressure among writers of comics to compete with the level of so-called "mature" content in other media: movies, TV, novels, etc - and unfortunately, the theme of rape and sexual assault has become more prevalent in all of these.

It's a matter of escalation: storytellers having to go twice as far as those that came before them to get half the reaction from the audience. It creates a climate where nothing is shocking anymore, yet writers and artists are still compelled to try, sometimes going for the lowest common denominator, which is by definition a desperation move.

I keep hoping the rubber band will snap back at some point...but it doesn't seem too likely.

Anonymous said...

You know, it's a shame. (Not saying I'm on this guy's side. Not to mention when you don't get facts right and fail to use proper punctuation and grammar it hurts your argument) I've seen comments like these (only with better grammar/punctuation/getting facts right) on other internet series I watched, and I felt somewhat sympathetic to their claims. Mainly because I see where they are getting at with their criticism being ignored/backlashed by fans/the creator.

I have to say though, you're one of the few video creators on the internet I have a lot of respect for. You really do show a lot of respect for everyone who watches your work, even to go as far as allowing comments like that guy's to appear in your comments, and responding in a respectful way. Even when anyone at this point would be so annoyed they'd either delete the comment and be done with it. I have a lot of respect for people like you.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I'm just tired of seeing the few videos producers such as yourselves who really do give a damn about criticism and their viewers get accused of being horrible people. It's not right and you don't deserve it.

Wilhelmina Raye said...

"In IC and CW, the supers are fleshed out and behaving like real people who are affected by their jobs and end up making mistakes because of it. But they are still good people who keep striving to make the world a better place. These are not one dimensional characters. They feel...real."

So "real" means "complete and utter assholes who can't remember what their opinions were just a couple years ago?" Fucking Nazi Stark was not a good person. Tony Stark was a good person. And you can't reconcile the two people — THAT is unrealistic. It takes a lot more than making people into assholes to make them real. Slapping random flaws onto people and forcing them to commit horrific acts that they would previously never, ever dream of doing is not "real." That's just as one-dimensional as a person who's perfect and heroic every single minute of their lives. It doesn't flesh them out, it guts them.

Of course Identity Crisis was nowhere near as bad as Civil War, but it operated on the same premise — take these heroic characters who often make mistakes, and make them cross the line into supervillain-ish behavior, not because they were pushed to the breaking point, or were blackmailed with the imminent death of thousands of people, or were tormented until they developed mental problems. Just BECAUSE. That's unrealistic. You want a REAL flawed hero? Look at Batman — he's screwed up in the head, he's frequently an asshole, and he occasionally treats his friends like shit or makes ethical mistakes. But he is decent, and moral, and sticks to his principles no matter what, because it's the right thing to do. THAT is an example of a fleshed out hero. Or let's track the Fantastic Four from all the way back in the '60s — arrogant, insecure, vapid, and abrasive. Do they commit heinous acts (before CW?) Nope. Because they're jerks, but they're moral jerks. And that makes all the difference.

And implications? Well, there are a whole load, most severely: hiding crap like this from Batman and then having the gall to call him out for keeping tabs on superheroes' weaknesses. But how about something less direct: lobotomizing Dr. Light was bad enough, but they don't even make him into a non-villain. They make him into a toy for the Teen Titans to sharpen their heroing claws on. And then after he gets his mind back, they don't tell the Titans what happened. They sit on their asses and let the Titans walk right up to Light thinking he's still a joke villain, only for them to get beaten and almost raped by him. Oh there's more and more and more.

Nex Vesica said...

Don't even bother addressing the obvious troll, nobody takes the coward seriously and acknowledging their presence is way more then they even deserve.

Thoom said...

So "real" means "complete and utter assholes who can't remember what their opinions were just a couple years ago?"

Yes. Many people are assholes. Especially people with power. Even "great" people like Steve Jobs and Thomas Edison exhibit asshole behavior. Superheroes would be major assholes if they existed. No one could ever act like Superman does in the comics (at least from the 1950s up until today.) Superman's consistent boy scout behavior is as unreal as his powers of flight, heat vision, etc.

Fucking Nazi Stark was not a good person.

Nazi? Just because he wanted to put some rules and regulations on people walking around with power that equal WMDs? Come on.

As for being a good person, Tony has betrayed Captain America before, back in the 80s. Tony was also business partners with The Kingpin in the Damage Control comics. Tony Stark is Howard Hughes, and Hughes was a dick.
But not an evil person.

The action of the JLA in IC weren't "super villianish". It crosses into grey area. They weren't doing what they did JUST BECAUSE. They were trying to protect their families. The characters in CW also had solid reasons for their actions.

And implications? Well, there are a whole load, most severely: hiding crap like this from Batman and then having the gall to call him out for keeping tabs on superheroes' weaknesses.

Oh, so you mean IC created more opportunity for character development and more interesting stories in the DCU?

But how about something less direct: lobotomizing Dr. Light was bad enough, but they don't even make him into a non-villain. They make him into a toy for the Teen Titans to sharpen their heroing claws on.

...Oh there's more and more and more.


Oh, more interesting stories? From that one mini-series? Good job, Mr. Meltzer.

P.S.

The JLA didn't intend on Dr. Light becoming what he became. They just wanted to purge his memories or certain knowledge. But that makes looking back on the TT stories with Dr. Light more interesting.

Barachiel said...

I agree with Thoom on the IC/CW issue. Identity Crisis is one of the three graphic novels I picked up back in 2006 that brought me back to comics after a five year break from the medium.

It's the likes of Metzer, Bendis, and Johns, and their "retcons" that I feel have breathed new life into a stale medium, and added a degree of depth to characters I'd long grown tired of.

Of course, the trade-off for me has been the gorn that's seeped into comics, *especially* DC. Now I have to deal with B and C-listers being slaughtered like cattle, some in ways that have no business being in a all-ages oriented medium.

But overall, I think Identity Crisis was an excellent story and what it did for DC was worth the retcons.

Anonymous said...

For me to respect a hero they need the internal obstacles to overcome but Green Arrow's womanizing; Batman's paranoia and Superman's naivety are different from personality alteration. I mean that a superhero is a believable character /until/ they abuse their powers. It's the exact reason that $he Justice Lords were such great villains in the Justice League cartoon. Stark became a dictator in CW just like the League did in IC. With great power comes great responsibility; including the respect of your enemy. If you want to see this in action look at The Killing Joke or that story where the Joker's convicted of a crime he didn't commit. In both stories Batman never forgot he was dealing with a monster; but he still respected The Joker's humanity. A Dictator like the leaguers involved with the Dr. Light fiasco however hold no respect for anyones humanity; and that includes people like GA who voted against the mind wipe. In fact they're more guilty in some ways. A lie of omission is still a lie. A dictator wants what's in they're own interest and pretend it's for the better good; a hero will sacrifice self interest for the true common good. So yes the Leaguers in IC /did/ become supervilains.

Anonymous said...

So Automatically I hate my Job? Yeah ok coming from someone who doesn't work a real job. Lewis keep stroking your own ego. At the end of the day I love my Job and I love the money I make. See I have busted my fucking ass all my life. I never had anything given to me unlike you. What you do isn't hard work and its very easy and any idiot could fucking do it. But alas you will say you will just repeat the same thing over and over.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"So Automatically I hate my Job? Yeah ok coming from someone who doesn't work a real job. Lewis keep stroking your own ego. At the end of the day I love my Job and I love the money I make. See I have busted my fucking ass all my life. I never had anything given to me unlike you. What you do isn't hard work and its very easy and any idiot could fucking do it. But alas you will say you will just repeat the same thing over and over. "

Nah, I said probably, because honestly I don't get why you've decided to come here and insult me. You worked hard to get where you are? Great! So did I.

See, yes, any idiot can put together a video review. However it takes someone skills and time to make them WELL. My early reviews aren't all that great and it's taken me time to develop them into the state they're in now. It's especially fun if you try to do it EVERY week for over 100 episodes, sometimes releasing multiple videos in a single week that have complicated fight scenes within them AND go to conventions out of state AND put together supplementary material for other occasions AND do podcasts for people free of charge.

Some weeks are indeed easier than others, but you know what? There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with what I do to earn money, whether you think it's easy or not. You want to rag about the quality of the reviews? Fine. You don't like my opinions? Fine.

But don't go making assumptions about who you think I am or what I think of others based solely on videos critiquing comic books and the fact that I held off on doing podcasts because I was doing other things with my time to try to make the show better.

Anonymous said...

Complicated Fight Scene my Ass I have seen better Deathmatches in XPW. Don't say a goddamn thing about Complicated in any of your fucking reviews. Secondly you make the choice to do all the things free of charge. Also going to a Convention? How does that constitute as hard work. I have watched plenty of panel videos in your case the Channel Awesome clique. Get all your idiot fans together who think you are talented which none of you are you all just rag on everyone elses work because you could never accomplish it yourself and sit there and get questions asked and then sign some autographs. Yeah you sure do work hard at those conventions. Face it you got it easy you have and never will work hard a day in your fucking life.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Complicated Fight Scene my Ass I have seen better Deathmatches in XPW. Don't say a goddamn thing about Complicated in any of your fucking reviews. Secondly you make the choice to do all the things free of charge."

Indeed, because I'm embracing a distributive method that, aside for fees for someone to actually be able to log onto the internet (which most people seem to do anyway), allows for people to watch them without an actual fee-to-watch.

I get my money through ad revenue from the ads that play at the beginning, end, and the little ads that pop up on the bottom during the videos that can be closed. However, because of that, that means I rely upon viewers to watch, which means I DO have to make a consistently entertaining video to watch every week. Like any show, I need to put effort in to be entertaining because if no one is watching then I don't get paid and I don't get to have this purportedly cushy job.

"Also going to a Convention? How does that constitute as hard work. I have watched plenty of panel videos in your case the Channel Awesome clique."

So we're a clique now? Exactly HOW are we such elitists? You keep coming back to this idea that we're arrogant or full of ourselves beyond simple pride for the work we do, yet I'm still trying to figure out what exactly brought about this assumption.

As for why a convention is difficult, it means we have to take several days off to go to another state (and sometimes another country) where we're probably not doing a lot of work for the videos (which, again, are our bread and butter), which means we either have to skip a week or we have to prepare the video in advance, meaning double the workload in a week. Doing panels and whatnot helps, because we can then release videos of that panel to try to offset costs, but of course those videos are never as popular as the actual episodes of the show.

"Get all your idiot fans together who think you are talented which none of you are you all just rag on everyone elses work because you could never accomplish it yourself and sit there and get questions asked and then sign some autographs."

Okay, now you're insulting my fans, again - the people who take time out of their days to watch me and thus provide me with this "easy job." You want to attack me fine, but they're not doing anything but enjoying my work. You DO NOT send insults towards them, asshole. They're free to like, dislike, agree, or disagree with anything I have to say.

As for "ragging on other people's work," yeah, dumbass - I'm a CRITIC. You know, that thing where you evaluate other people's work? They existed LONG before the internet and they'll exist long after I'm gone. That is nothing new.

"Face it you got it easy you have and never will work hard a day in your fucking life."

Let's assume for a second that my job isn't difficult at all.

SO. FREAKING. WHAT. Tell me, are the only jobs worth doing the ones that are difficult? Are people not allowed to have jobs that they enjoy doing that are easy? It seems to me that you're the one coming as elitist - because how DARE I have a job that's apparently easy to do. How DARE my life not be EXACTLY like yours and be rife with struggle or hard work. I am obviously not worthy of your time because my job is different from yours.

Which brings me to another point - if I'm apparently so worthless and whatnot, why exactly do you care to post anonymous comments on my blog for? Why are you wasting YOUR precious time arguing with a guy who reviews comic books on the internet?

Anonymous said...

"Get all your idiot fans together who think you are talented which none of you are -"

Wait, stop. Didn't you post earlier...

"When instead you could humble yourself and actually do something to show appreciation to your fans."

Is this about the fans anymore? What are you trying to accomplish? Who are you trying to win over? Are you here to convince Linkara to stop doing what he is doing? Are you standing up for fans who you feel have had their opinion silenced? Are you trying to convince people to not watch the show?

You don't seem to be trying to convince Linkara, but rather insult him. You've gone back on your first post by saying anyone who watches this show is an idiot, (and clearly, it's not just the people who like the fights.) And I don't see any appeals to any other people, just that everyone is an idiot. Who are you appealing to? What do you want?

Thoom said...

Linkara,

You shouldn't even dignify the ANONYMOUS troll with a response.

I'm just annoyed that he decided to troll on THIS particular post.

Anonymous said...

I will tell you what THOOM! I will stop if you pay me. Seeing you wanted to pay this lazy fuck. Why don't you pay someone with real fucking talent and work skills.

Wilhelmina Raye said...

To Thoom:

On Superman, heroic behavior, etc: the reason I like (the post-crisis version) of Supes is that from everything I've read (and I've read a *lot* of Superman) he doesn't *mindlessly* act like a boyscout all the time without ever thinking about it. He mentally struggles to remember to be good, not give into temptations, to not take the law into his own hands, to take deep breaths even when he feels like liquefying some of the vicious assholes he comes across. He acts like a boyscout because that's who he feels like being naturally and doesn't wan't to lose sight of it, because he knows what is right and wrong and wants to stick to his guns. And no, it's not completely unrealistic. This may come as a shock, but some (emphasis on "some") people are just plain nice, upstanding, decent guys who don't want to do bad things, and who were raised with such strong morals that it trumps their personal desires. Now, is this impossible in real life? It's very, very, VERY rare, but it's possible. And that's why I read superhero comics. To watch people being heroes. To see standards of behavior that I can admire and that make me feel optimistic of what kind of person I can be if I put my mind to it. Superpowers are the way in which these stories about heroic behavior and the handling of power are given an exciting, fantastical, exaggerated context.

However, this is why *I* (and a large amount of comic fans — though not all of them) like superhero comics. I don't have a beef with people who don't like superhero comics because of how the heroes are portrayed, but I tend to scratch my head at people who read superhero comics yet don't want their superheroes to be heroes. However, I respect that you have different ideas about this concept, so I won't argue with you about it.

As for the rest of your points, all I can say is that the two of us have radically different definitions of the words "hero", "interesting", "character development", "evil", "bad", and "rules".

I really don't want a flame war though, so lets just agree to disagree. Comics are nothing if not in great variety.