I guess the idea of the Zombie Lian hallucination could have been their idea of withdrawal symptoms.
Though Wikipedia claims the following as the withdrawal symptoms for Heroin.
Sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, akathisia, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, cramp-like pains in the limbs, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches; nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, and fever.
None of which seem to include hallucinations.
Beyond that, You know Roy's whining in this made him sound kinda like Superboy Prime.
Somehow, a promising comic that ends poorly is always worse than a bad comic that ends well. It just builds up your expectations and then BAM! Worst of the Nineties in your face. While I'm not against the antihero in comicbooks, this miniseries perfectly highlights all their problems: they're flat, unsympathetic, and have no real distinguishing traits.
Sad thing is, I think it might've been more effective had Liam survived. Just imagine, her in a coma, Roy slowly going insane from stress, guilt, and pain, and then, while breaking into the prison, she DOES wake up. Not sure if it would be good, but it's by default better than what we got.
Anyways, enjoyed the review as usual, and greatly enjoyed the return of 'Previously On'. It made more sense than the comic's progression.
And here we go. The second part of your Rise of Arse-nal and we get the return of long missed previously on running gag! OH I missed these, Sad Pandas Q&A almost reached this level of krazey… and this one more than made up for the long gap. The only thing more insane is the idea that William Shatner is doing a cover of Bohemian Rhapsody.
That or Roy Harper.
Who the… why the… who wrote this. On so many levels it could have worked, but again it feels like there were three, or more, writers all locked in separate rooms with nothing more than a pencil to scrape out a plot and then an incompetent editor threw it all together with the artist one Tuesday morning. There are just so many plot points and developments that go nowhere and just seem to jump around that it makes my head spin.
Heck most of them come come from nowhere too. Who the hell was that ghost dealer, where did it come from and where did it go to. What was the point? It was utterly pointless. We leap from set piece to set piece without rhyme or reason, there's no growth or development. Just splinters of what could have been alright ideas, if they had been handled better. Your quick research shows more effort than who ever threw this together.
I wouldn't be surprised if they retcon Ghost-Daughter into Mephisto or whatever. In fact that would make more sense.
Harper was an original and interesting character. Lian added a dimension rarely seen in modern heroes. The only one I can think of off hand with an actual family is Animal Man, and no other single parent comes to mind.
I strongly suspect this is the reason they got rid of her. It would have been same sort of thinking that Quesada had during One More Day. "Kids can't relate to him so lets completely change the character." We have legions of these carbon copy, rage fuelled Batman / Wolverine knock offs. We don't need another.
If one good thing comes form the brain fart that was this september reboot its writing this disaster out of continuity
Thomas
P.S. If they wanted to drive Harper into a drug fuelled rage why not just have her in a coma? It would have pretty much the same effect. Only difference, Lain could wake up later!
This comic could have been really good, or at least good compared to Cry for Justice, but it ends up being a good example of "Narm" - supposedly-serious scenes that we just can't take seriously because the execution is hilarious.
The Zombie Goast Lian bit killed me, no pun intended. I love it when references like that are just laid out for you on a silver platter.
The "Previously On" segment was good, if a bit too long. Still awesome though, and cameos are always welcome. But now I feel bad for Oan, because his last scene reminded me of the scene in Evangelion where Asuka gets mind-raped. I can't imagine that was intentional, but it certainly changes the meaning of that scene...
I had china cat once. It was a cute little tabby that sat on my front porch.
Speaking of, is it wrong of me to find the whole "porcelain animals" joke to be more poignant and interesting than the comic itself?
And here I was hoping you'd make a Silent Hill Christabella reference with Zombie Ghost Lian Harper.
Overall, your opinion of this comic matches perfectly my opinion of the Iron Dominion saga from Sonic; brilliant build-up, nonsensical and awful payoff. I'm suspecting the same reasons are the cause for both stories: inept hack writers and bungling executive meddling.
Best. Previously On segment. Yet. Though the one with the Bum blowing up things is definitely a close second. Suede's bit so hard to discern. Was it the lighting?
Because Good fanfiction writers can take a plotline of Crap, and twist it on it's head to make something worthwhile out of it? I've seen it happen. Would have more expected for them to break down in each others arms than getting it on, but I'm not that familiar with the characters. That it's completely deserted not even a moment later makes the entire direction pointless.
Laptop? Suitcase? Briefcase.
What was with all the ceramic figures?
Somehow, Zombie Ghost Leanne reminded me of a Mild Christabella. I'll just let that sink in.
(I know it was crude, but that one's just been building up inside me for some time now...^^;)
Fun fact, by the way: In the movie "Traffic", dealers actually smuggle drugs by molding them into solid dolls first...What are those porcelain animals REALLY made of? =P
And again, I bow to the master of mockery, bad comics division. Great review! ^_^
Y'know, I find myself holding my breath a bit at the end of every episode these days. The entity's killed so many supporting characters, and with the title card, I thought the Bum was toast.
I still think it's hilarious how writers think every illicit drug acts like PCP. :D
One could argue that the zombie-ghost Lian could have been a manifestation of Roy's guilt over her death and feelings of ineffectiveness in dealing with it, rather than a representation of Lian's actual character.
Of course, it still makes no goddamn sense WHY she appears, so...
That opening ran a bit too long I think. I was into it until it got to 3 minutes in and was still going. that's as long as some guys use to make video reviews of movies with long speeches.
I think the whole Cheshire thing bothered me because my favorite Secret Six arc (the one where Catman and Cheshire's kid gets kidnapped and we find out Thomas' backstory) was going on at the same time and her reactions in that just came off as a lot more believable.
Also I agree with the other posters that said Lian being in a coma would have created a lot more drama (just imagine a scene where Roy breaks down when Lian comes out of it and he has to reflect on what he's been doing). Then again, I agree with the people who said that Flash should have died at the end of Flashpoint #2 and the story should have been about Thomas Wayne running around in a desperate attempt to bring back a world where his son is still alive but not being able to put the world back all the way right since Flash was dead (thus explaining the reboot changes).
In any case, Rise was bad and the fact that it helped bring about TITANS makes it even worse.
I am surprised Linkara and the rest of you haven't figured it out. The Zombie ghost of Lian is a little girl with a foul mouth, her appearance continually changes, and she is tormenting Roy. Itn;t it obvious, Zombie Ghost Lian is actually...CRISTABELLA from Silent Hill: Dying Inside!!!
Who was it that was reading that book and saying all that stuff that didn't make sense, who then got the Hallelujah light on him? Actually, I didn't really recognize any of the guys in the Previously On segment, giving my lack of real knowledge of any TGWTG character beyond you, Nostalgia Critic, Nostalgia Chick, Spoony, Brad, Phelous, Todd, Lupa, and Film Brain... was the Previously On segment devoted to the C-list members or something?
Also, the Archie Sonic the Hedgehog comics are getting in on the "restart everything" act. And to top it off, the story that begins it, "Sonic: Genesis," has an amnesiac Sonic waking up in Green Hill Zone and finding himself in his first game. No, really. I suspect it has something to do with the upcoming "Sonic Generations" game...
Also, Ian Flynn is writing a Mega Man comic now. Depending on your viewpoint of him (which I understand is VERY love him or hate him), you may now either rejoice, or weep.
Good as always, though that beginning might have been a little long. For a brief second there, I forgot what show I was watching.
"... and her fathering a child with you..." *snicker* :P
BTW: Not to sound like a... well, something bad... but I sent you an email last week about wanting to sell my comic collection. I'm wondering if you got it, or if it perhaps got lost in the spam vacuum.
"Who was it that was reading that book and saying all that stuff that didn't make sense, who then got the Hallelujah light on him? Actually, I didn't really recognize any of the guys in the Previously On segment, giving my lack of real knowledge of any TGWTG character beyond you, Nostalgia Critic, Nostalgia Chick, Spoony, Brad, Phelous, Todd, Lupa, and Film Brain... was the Previously On segment devoted to the C-list members or something?"
That would be Oancitizen, host of the show "Brows Held High."
The others featured were: -Ed Glaser, of Press Start Adventures and Deja View -Diamanda Hagan and her self-titled review show -Nash, from "What the Fuck is Wrong With You?" and his classic Doctor Who reviews. I did a crossover with him recently. -Welshy from Sad Panda Q&A and his self-titled review show. -That Dude in the Suede or just Suede, also from his own self-titled review show. -That Scifi Guy, once again from his self-titled review show. -JesuOtaku, also self-titled but she also does a Fruits Basket Radio drama.
Basically it's everyone who HASN'T done a Previously On segment yet.
"BTW: Not to sound like a... well, something bad... but I sent you an email last week about wanting to sell my comic collection. I'm wondering if you got it, or if it perhaps got lost in the spam vacuum."
I'm a few weeks behind on e-mails. It happens sometimes.
You know it's kinda funny when you think about it. I hate reboots, reimaginings and every other "re" word you can use to mask the fact you are treading the same ground. But after this? I think the reboot is worthwhile just to undo the character assassination that went down here.
First off, wow. Return of the 'Previously on' and it was great. I don't doubt that it would make a better story than the actual comic. In fact, I'm interested to see what came of JO's little dilemma.
Anyway, as for the actual comic, I agree with everybody who has posted before me. They could have done this in so many other ways to make it actually comprehensible. What they did just seemed kind of thrown together at the last minute. I can imagine the idea pitch meeting:
"Ok, so Roy Harper lost his arm and his daughter." "Yeah." "So, let's make it so he's hallucinating to see a ghost drug dealer of some sort and then have him fall back into drugs and go on a murderous rampage because his dead daughter said so." "I like it. Only instead of the murderous rampage, we make it so he goes after one guy and kills or harms severely everyone who gets in his way." "Because his dead daughter said so." "Yeah. Oh and the mother should come in somewhere, too."
Your point about other people having lost loved ones and being able to empathize with Roy is not only true, it's actually very incredibly true considering who his friends and allies are. I'd say every single person at Lian's funeral has lost an immediate family member.
Just last night I was explaining what Half-Life: Full-Life Consequences was to a friend because the subject of zombie ghosts - excuse me, "zombie goasts" - came up. And now this. I'm beginning to think that you're psychic, Linkara XD --SageSaria
Boy it's felt like forever since we had a "Previously On" segment...don't recognize any of them so I assume they're newer members of the TGWTG staff...heh, I haven't been there in ages.
Strangely while you thought of "Half-Life" with Lian, I just had a weird image of the best friend from "An American Werewolf in London"...with a random "Full Metal Alchemist" ending thrown in just to allow for the house to be standing the whole time. Maybe Roy can now go and find a Philospher's Stone to bring Lian back to life...never mind. Otherwise it was just sort of putrid seeing all this and the whole "robot arm" and "impotence" thing just makes me think that maybe that wasn't the only "arm" that needed to be fixed on Roy...ewww. (and thus my random stupid Kikaider joke)
The Pretty Bunny's back! I was beginning to miss it. But what's this? It seems to have friends! If I may ask, from whence did these paragons of porcelain proliferate? Or is that a question best answered by a new story arc? ^_^
I enjoyed the review, but I have to be honest about something I disagreed with: part of me doesn't want this just undone with the reboot. I'd like to actually see Roy drag himself out of the dark side, so to speak, rather than just have a magic wand undo it.
Don't get me wrong, though: I'll be happy for any bit of optimism in the DCnU I can get after reading about Superman's new status quo. (Sorry to vent there.)
It's official, I care more about Superboy Prime's future than I care about Roy's. Here's an idea, a series where Prime rises up to become the hero of Earth Prime, having to make his own legend while having to deal with a world that fears/mocks him because of his actions in the comics? It would be better than this crap. This garbage is why I buy second-hand comics from the 60s-mid 80's with occasional reprints of golden age reprints thrown in. I am looking forward to the new Blue Beetle and hope, nay, pray they fix Captain Marvel. SHAZAM!
I can usually brush off old terrible Marvel and DC comics with a snicker and a groan. In a pair of fictional universes with such a huge volume of canon work and, in some cases, 60+ years of continuity stuffed into 10-15 years of in-universe time, the crap gets buried fast and I love the idea of characters thinking back on notorious Dork Ages with a "man, what the hell was I smoking?"/"I thought we agreed never to talk about that again." mindset. But when these monumentally stupid things happen, and they're mixed in with gratuitous status quo-breakers and other major changes that can't be forgotten, THAT angers me. And it's almost always character death that causes these things to degenerate from idiotic detour to infuriating wallbanger.
This entire comic (and Cry for Justice) would be a nostalgic joke years down the road if Lian hadn't died. Countdown would have been a hilarious epic if so many characters hadn't randomly bit the dust. Civil War could've been a embarrassing interlude in the Marvel universe's history if Cap (and Jan, etc., after him in Secret Invasion) hadn't copped it for no reason.
The last decade's rash of attempts to make big events "matter" by shaking up the status quo and killing characters for no reason other than quick drama and a cheap excuse to innovate in areas where they're too lazy to come up with new ideas is what makes recent bad event comics so much worse than older ones.
SO true-- I know MANY people to whom I could say this and probably WILL in future! The sentiment I feel constantly PERFECTLY encapsulated! Linkara . . . you are a gem!
Between all of the hallucinations and the fact that his house (where Lian theoretically died) is inexplicably undamaged, I'd say the whole thing makes far more sense if it's all a hallucination and Roy is actually the prisoner of some mind-bending supervillain somewhere.
When you think that they introduced Robin the Boy Wonder as the "Great New Character Find of 1940" to make the children who read Detective Comics feel more involved with the action, to give them the hope that yes, one of them could don a costume and fight crime alongside their hero, the senseless slaughter of Lian Harper just feels like an even bigger knife through the gut. As is the case with all things, in the end, it's always the children that suffer the most.
I couldn't help but wonder where 90s Kid was when you were mentioning that Arsenal turned into a generic 90s hero. But maybe that has something to do with the Entity storyline.
And what's with comic companies and not wanting their characters to have kids? I would love to see the stories that can arise from, say, Superman taking his marriage to Lois to the next level, and the stories that can arise from a father balancing his duties to the world with his duties in raising his kids. It could draw parallels to families where one member is a police officer (or military families). This sort of story development is what also could have happened between Roy and Lian.
Also, I agree with posters here that she could have gone into a coma instead. It would raise dramatic tension because after Roy decends into drugs and more extreme violence she could wake up and the sory could be told of a man seeking to hide his dark side from his daughter while being pulled between shots at redemption and the urge to give into the life.
Oh boy... Things reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaally go off the deep end this one this time... And what's Christabella doing here playing like she's his daughter?
Wow Iain't got nothing to really say about this! that was just really sad that that got ut on paper and sold to people! I guess to win award for realistic depiction of drug use you just gotta draw a realistic picture of some one sitting in an alley way smoking of a peice of garbage like some junky hobo! In that case all those indie comics that should be winning the hell out of those awards I've seen alot of images like that in those comics! Hell, that comic Linkara hates but I like, The Boys, has alot of scenes where it shows heroes passed out bleeding from the nose from snorting iles of coke and/or meth!
actually for a 90s tragic anti-hero this is still very depressing because even in the 90s they didn't take them this seriously! But you do gotta admit his cyborg/robotic arm looks like classic 90s cheesy metalic arm!
So, does this mean that the 2010s are the new 90s? If so, awesome!!!
This is not any kind of criticism, but just an honest question. If it has been answered elsewhere, I do apologize. I've seen most of your stuff but I haven't found an answer yet.
When you read from the trades, why DON'T you look at the covers? I get that they aren't as important for trades since they are meant to grab your attention and make you want to buy the book, and that the trade will have its OWN cover for that, but since individual issues did have their own cover at one point, it just feels weird to me that you don't comment on them like you do in other reviews.
"When you read from the trades, why DON'T you look at the covers? I get that they aren't as important for trades since they are meant to grab your attention and make you want to buy the book, and that the trade will have its OWN cover for that, but since individual issues did have their own cover at one point, it just feels weird to me that you don't comment on them like you do in other reviews."
You pretty much nailed it on the head why I don't do it for the trades. XD They may have had their own covers at one point, but since the version that I'm reading from comes from the trade, I just don't see any need to evaluate covers that aren't there.
I missed the non-relevant ‘Previously On’s. Glad to see them back. ^^
Wow, this just… wow. Starting with serious drama and character development and ending with zombies ghosts is just… so very sad in how terrible a writing move that is- can it even be called a move? Like, it’s such a far stretch, I can honestly say I wouldn’t be surprised if they were just throwing darts at a dartboard to get their ideas (though, now that I think about it, Paw seems to be doing fine with that method for Music Movies, so that means their process was even worse, if that’s even possible). I just… I don’t even know what to say in response to the idea. Writers, you go back to your rooms until you learn to how write better.
And yes, I shall kick all my friends in the head to make sure they don’t take a wrong path with drugs. Thank you, Linkara! Your lesson shall surely save many a children from suffering.
Yes, this is definitely the best "Previously On..." segment you've had yet. I especially like that you featured some of the newer* (and consequently less well known) reviewers.
I'm reasonably certain that this series is going to be undone by the revamp, but I honestly have no idea where Roy (or the rest of that set of Titans!) will be at as a character afterwards. Apparently the heroic age of DC 3.0 will be five years old. I look forward to the inevitable "Who Is Donna Troy?" story. Who knows? Maybe the answer will stick this time!
*-- I know Suede's not exactly new, but he was only on the site for a few months before he left, and he only came back with SK, so I feel that counts.
To my understanding, 'China Cat' might actually be a name for heroin (albeit not a common one).
As for Zombie!Lian I'm guessing it's supposed to be his own guilt. Of course I'm a bit bored with writers relying on hallucinations of things like dead family to convey an emotion. A few well written words can convey more than a tired cliche ever could.
Some Trades have the main big issue cover as a cover...just saying anyway Lewis you need to take a break, do another origins month and this time don't cut off the damn JL theme half way through! just let it fade out....
NOW! the review was meh as you basically said a man losing his arm and child in a 24 hour period was something he shouldn't whine about. Also, the hallucinations could be the result of his fragile mental state as we saw through this comic he's kinda stuck the rage state of grief and him seeing Lian's could be his way of bargaining. The point is not everyone deals with this the same.
Also this brings up a point not pushed much in DC the fact that some heroes can't deal with personal life pressure and don't triumphantly recover but fall further to the point no one recognizes them. Roy isn't correctly thinking period, he fell hard and fell fast, he's acting irrational and opinionated but , that's him being a human being.
I'd actually like to see that explored more then him being happy single dad or the recovered druggie since they put him in a position where he has lost so much.
Not saying the way he lost Lian or his arm was right or even that this story is good, just if someone did put in this type of position(Say Lian is given to the state until she's 18 due to Roy's super hero life cutting in to his responsibilities as a father.) again I'd like to see someone tell the story of him back on drugs and cracking and falling further and further basically not being trusted by his fellow Titans even but still at the end saving peoples lives and doing what he feels right.
Brilliant 'Previously On' segment. I laughed all the way through it.
After the first part of the review I almost thought that this was going to turn into some kind of PSA. Now I almost wish it did. 'Zombie Ghost Lian'? What the Hell? I can believe that his behaviour would be erratic, and that maybe he'd fall into drugs or something like that after the death of his daugther, but they handled it so completely... strangely... that it's difficult to take a single page of the comic seriously enough for it to get whatever message it was trying to say across.
Also, they left Roy Harper, a Superhero, in a drug rehab clinic for Villains? Do they want him to get killed or what?
I guess the zombie part is guilt over her death or something? But what the heck did the Electrocutioner have to do with her death? Revenge? For what? Wasn't that all Prometheus? And he burns his house? What? I just... words fail. Also, nice lecture on other people being addicted to power and control when you're using beating them up in order to satisfy your sexual frustrations... because that never got resolved.
It’s a shame, I actually like Roy's character arc (learned about through your videos I haven't read any titans stuff) learning about his relationship with his daughter and the struggle of juggling two lives seems like something that other companies as well as DC should be exploring.
To be honest during the reboot, i hope they try this story again (not with Roy another character, maybe black canary) and do it right.
There's glimmers of good writing in here and sparks of the real emotions churning around in Roy's head, as you said some of his outbursts are understandable he lost his only daughter after all. The rest of the comic ruins it though, I would much rather have seen Roy retire for a bit and focus on the psychological aspect of his pain for four issues before he accepts what happened and comes back triumphant.
I have to say great review liked it allot... I did on the other hand hate the 4 minuet intro of people i don't know or care about! Watching that almost made my close the video and stop watching... but i knew that if there is something like this... the episode better be worth it... it was but still hated waiting with all these people with all that crap... Ugh please no more of that...
"I have to say great review liked it allot... I did on the other hand hate the 4 minuet intro of people i don't know or care about! Watching that almost made my close the video and stop watching... but i knew that if there is something like this... the episode better be worth it... it was but still hated waiting with all these people with all that crap... Ugh please no more of that..."
You do realize that this is the fifth time I've done a Previously On segment, right? XD
This admittedly has nothing to do with the video, however, I'd like you to read this series of articles on frank Miller's Batman. I'm sure you'll find them to be a well written counterpoint to your own Millertime videos.
I wanna say that Lian was supposed to be in Mia's apartment in the city when she died, not at Roy's house. That's why he was pissed at Mia, she was supposed to be looking out for her at her apartment when the disaster struck, leaving Lian alone when the building collapsed. Or something like that..
Loved the previously on segment, featuring Diamanda, Oancitizen, That Sci Fi Guy, and Jesu Otaku. I'll tell you all these stories behind these scenes can make better stories than crap like Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal.
I especially loved the beat-down against this hated series. They call this the worst comic ever written, especially after the dead cat image. Me, I still think Warrior is the worst comic ever written, but I will say this: this should have been better. This isn't a rise from the ashes story; it's more like the transformation of a hero into a psychopath maniac with the worst parts of the Punisher and Rorschach. It's the worst parts of the 90s all over again, and frankly, I'm surprised that 90s Kid didn't show up for this.
I once predicted that they would do a storyline where the superhero community would launch a massive manhunt for Arsenal. However, with the upcoming relaunch for the DCU following Flashpoint, I don't think we will see this happen.
However, I don't have to remind you that he's part of Deathstroke's Titans Villains for Hire (you should do the run sometime, starting with the prologue issue). If the current storyline, the Methuselah Imperative, is any indication, Arsenal will double-cross Deathstroke and his goons, maybe kill Cheshire in the process.
A lot of people are expecting Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal to be removed after Flashpoint. I, on the other hand, am not holding my breath. I think they'll keep those two series in canon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the heroes throw Harper into prison for life for all the murders he's committed, and Harper will spend his time killing off lifers and death row inmates.
Even if through some miracle they bring Lian back, it still wouldn't make things OK, because Lian would have to live with the fact that her father has essentially become a murderer, one of the very people he once fought.
To get more scientific on the hallucinations front, It most likely wasn't because of the drugs that he was hallucinating, otherwise the good doctor there wouldn't have been bothering him until AFTER he got on the drugs again.
It seems (through a quick wikipedia search) Extreme stress and psychological trauma can cause psychosis, which can have the symptom of hallucinations, and I imagine physical trauma can attribute to that as well. Add in the drugs, and it just allows your brain to run more free with an augmented reality overall, whether or not it's a stimulant rather than a depressant.
Do yeah, the Dealer and the girl were probably both just bits of his subconscious.
Short version: Arsenal wasn't a dick, he was just CRAZY.
You know this version of Arsenal actually has some potential.
Can you imagine a team up between him and Red Hood?
Or even him talking to his dead zombie daughter and ghost dealer while fighting Joker or somebody.
Lots of future laughs here. Or even decent storylines if you can get a good writer.
Though really; considering his obvious mental distress it seems odd the JLA didn't set up a permament watch to make sure he didn't hurt himself or others.
My problem with zombie!Lian is this...it's not consistently drawn...they later reveal on her 'tombstone' that she was 5 (sorry? and she's in elementary with him moving her every 6 months from city to city?!), but she's either drawn as a tiny child or at least 9 or 10, and speaking like a 12 or 13 year old. Huh? Also, when he burns down his house that she was mysteriously killed in (that's in the part tastefully not shown), she's miraculously whole and decidedly NOT ghostly as she's screaming at him in the flames as he walks away from the house that has to have the longest driveway in the history of suburbia...there is a SIDEWALK somewhere by his house. I distinctly remember seeing in JT Krul's excellent one shot story with Roy and Lian in pre-wtfbbq Titans.
Also, no mentioned WHATSOEVER, Linkara, of Mia haring off & everyone defends her to Roy when he blames her for Lian's death? I was rather disappointed in you missing that point. If anyone else left a child under the age of 10 alone in a house in a city under threat of being blown to smithereens, that person in the costumed community would have been ripped to pieces and never trusted again.
BTW, I so linked these two reviews on my fan website for the Roy Harper character. I wait, in vain, for the day when Roy's character becomes a hero again. I don't mind him being an anti-hero a la Catwoman but the current tragedy and upcoming questionable occupation in the reboot has me running, screaming for the hills to hide in a bunker until sanity returns.
Anyone have any non-expiring ration packs? I'm gonna need 'em..
Alright, I'll agree this thing stinks BADLY, but some things did make sense. Yes, if they wanted him to bacome a dark antihero or become a villain or something they could have Lian alive to do it, but it would be easier with her dead. (if that's what they had planned.)
Also, the zombie-ghost makes sense to me. Personally, by the end I think the grief, stress, and pain were taking their toll and he simply went through some kind of pschotic break. The fact that she looked and acted the way she did would be more painful to him than her being her normal self because he blames himself for her death to some extent I'm sure. Plus, its his freaking daughter telling him he failed her as a father, that hurts period.
Yes the miniseries stunk, but mixed in with the sheer stupidity are small kernels of good plot points (VERY small) which could have been used to make a much better and believable comic in which we watch a once good character slowly lose his sanity and identity, becoming something we both hate and pity. Well, it could have been that, had it been done right.
Nice to see this country's still stuck in the 1940s when it comes to actual drug awareness. A book that completely fabricates side-effects, and in fact shows them as much MORE harmful, is given an award for accuracy. I guess it's a good thing it wasn't the demon weed marihuana, or we might've seen Roy go completely insane and murder all those bums after JUST ONE PUFF! If only he'd just had a healthful cigarette or gotten blackout drunk at one of the many completely legal bars in Star City.
That was one of my favorite "Previously on" segments. I actually really enjoy watching them, if only because of how ridiculous they are. And yes, it would have made for a more far more interesting story than this trashy character derailment.
I was actually kind of expecting a comparison between Zombie Ghost Skeleton Lian and Christabella, if only because it's a smart-mouth girl that is really just annoying, and Lian's case, more salt in the wound. It's a real shame that the reboot didn't bring Lian back.
I guess the idea of the Zombie Lian hallucination could have been their idea of withdrawal symptoms.
ReplyDeleteThough Wikipedia claims the following as the withdrawal symptoms for Heroin.
Sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, akathisia, priapism, extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, cramp-like pains in the limbs, excessive yawning or sneezing, tears, rhinorrhea, sleep difficulties (insomnia), cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches; nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, and fever.
None of which seem to include hallucinations.
Beyond that, You know Roy's whining in this made him sound kinda like Superboy Prime.
Somehow, a promising comic that ends poorly is always worse than a bad comic that ends well. It just builds up your expectations and then BAM! Worst of the Nineties in your face. While I'm not against the antihero in comicbooks, this miniseries perfectly highlights all their problems: they're flat, unsympathetic, and have no real distinguishing traits.
ReplyDeleteSad thing is, I think it might've been more effective had Liam survived. Just imagine, her in a coma, Roy slowly going insane from stress, guilt, and pain, and then, while breaking into the prison, she DOES wake up. Not sure if it would be good, but it's by default better than what we got.
Anyways, enjoyed the review as usual, and greatly enjoyed the return of 'Previously On'. It made more sense than the comic's progression.
And here we go. The second part of your Rise of Arse-nal and we get the return of long missed previously on running gag!
ReplyDeleteOH I missed these, Sad Pandas Q&A almost reached this level of krazey… and this one more than made up for the long gap. The only thing more insane is the idea that William Shatner is doing a cover of Bohemian Rhapsody.
That or Roy Harper.
Who the… why the… who wrote this. On so many levels it could have worked, but again it feels like there were three, or more, writers all locked in separate rooms with nothing more than a pencil to scrape out a plot and then an incompetent editor threw it all together with the artist one Tuesday morning. There are just so many plot points and developments that go nowhere and just seem to jump around that it makes my head spin.
Heck most of them come come from nowhere too. Who the hell was that ghost dealer, where did it come from and where did it go to. What was the point? It was utterly pointless. We leap from set piece to set piece without rhyme or reason, there's no growth or development. Just splinters of what could have been alright ideas, if they had been handled better. Your quick research shows more effort than who ever threw this together.
I wouldn't be surprised if they retcon Ghost-Daughter into Mephisto or whatever. In fact that would make more sense.
Harper was an original and interesting character. Lian added a dimension rarely seen in modern heroes. The only one I can think of off hand with an actual family is Animal Man, and no other single parent comes to mind.
I strongly suspect this is the reason they got rid of her. It would have been same sort of thinking that Quesada had during One More Day. "Kids can't relate to him so lets completely change the character." We have legions of these carbon copy, rage fuelled Batman / Wolverine knock offs. We don't need another.
If one good thing comes form the brain fart that was this september reboot its writing this disaster out of continuity
Thomas
P.S. If they wanted to drive Harper into a drug fuelled rage why not just have her in a coma? It would have pretty much the same effect. Only difference, Lain could wake up later!
This comic could have been really good, or at least good compared to Cry for Justice, but it ends up being a good example of "Narm" - supposedly-serious scenes that we just can't take seriously because the execution is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteThe Zombie Goast Lian bit killed me, no pun intended. I love it when references like that are just laid out for you on a silver platter.
The "Previously On" segment was good, if a bit too long. Still awesome though, and cameos are always welcome. But now I feel bad for Oan, because his last scene reminded me of the scene in Evangelion where Asuka gets mind-raped. I can't imagine that was intentional, but it certainly changes the meaning of that scene...
I had china cat once. It was a cute little tabby that sat on my front porch.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of, is it wrong of me to find the whole "porcelain animals" joke to be more poignant and interesting than the comic itself?
And here I was hoping you'd make a Silent Hill Christabella reference with Zombie Ghost Lian Harper.
Overall, your opinion of this comic matches perfectly my opinion of the Iron Dominion saga from Sonic; brilliant build-up, nonsensical and awful payoff. I'm suspecting the same reasons are the cause for both stories: inept hack writers and bungling executive meddling.
So...
ReplyDeleteWhat's with the porcelain critters?
OH MY GOD its Christabella disguised as Lian. Run for your lives before it gets worse!
ReplyDeleteI think this is my favourite review. No other way to sum it up, this is awesome
ReplyDeleteBest. Previously On segment. Yet. Though the one with the Bum blowing up things is definitely a close second. Suede's bit so hard to discern. Was it the lighting?
ReplyDeleteBecause Good fanfiction writers can take a plotline of Crap, and twist it on it's head to make something worthwhile out of it? I've seen it happen.
Would have more expected for them to break down in each others arms than getting it on, but I'm not that familiar with the characters. That it's completely deserted not even a moment later makes the entire direction pointless.
Laptop? Suitcase? Briefcase.
What was with all the ceramic figures?
Somehow, Zombie Ghost Leanne reminded me of a Mild Christabella. I'll just let that sink in.
...And yet Roy's teammates & peers won't stop cruelly taunting him about his impotence.
ReplyDeleteThough it kind of makes sense...DC wouldn't stop acting like a pussy, so the artists figured they needed some dicks to balance it out.
(I know it was crude, but that one's just been building up inside me for some time now...^^;)
Fun fact, by the way: In the movie "Traffic", dealers actually smuggle drugs by molding them into solid dolls first...What are those porcelain animals REALLY made of? =P
And again, I bow to the master of mockery, bad comics division. Great review! ^_^
Y'know, I find myself holding my breath a bit at the end of every episode these days. The entity's killed so many supporting characters, and with the title card, I thought the Bum was toast.
ReplyDeleteI still think it's hilarious how writers think every illicit drug acts like PCP. :D
ReplyDeleteOne could argue that the zombie-ghost Lian could have been a manifestation of Roy's guilt over her death and feelings of ineffectiveness in dealing with it, rather than a representation of Lian's actual character.
Of course, it still makes no goddamn sense WHY she appears, so...
Only one thing justifies this comic's existence.
ReplyDeleteThat opening ran a bit too long I think. I was into it until it got to 3 minutes in and was still going. that's as long as some guys use to make video reviews of movies with long speeches.
ReplyDeleteI think the whole Cheshire thing bothered me because my favorite Secret Six arc (the one where Catman and Cheshire's kid gets kidnapped and we find out Thomas' backstory) was going on at the same time and her reactions in that just came off as a lot more believable.
ReplyDeleteAlso I agree with the other posters that said Lian being in a coma would have created a lot more drama (just imagine a scene where Roy breaks down when Lian comes out of it and he has to reflect on what he's been doing). Then again, I agree with the people who said that Flash should have died at the end of Flashpoint #2 and the story should have been about Thomas Wayne running around in a desperate attempt to bring back a world where his son is still alive but not being able to put the world back all the way right since Flash was dead (thus explaining the reboot changes).
In any case, Rise was bad and the fact that it helped bring about TITANS makes it even worse.
I am surprised Linkara and the rest of you haven't figured it out. The Zombie ghost of Lian is a little girl with a foul mouth, her appearance continually changes, and she is tormenting Roy. Itn;t it obvious, Zombie Ghost Lian is actually...CRISTABELLA from Silent Hill: Dying Inside!!!
ReplyDeleteRoy turned into a red version of "The Crow" in this. THAT would have been more interesting.
ReplyDeleteAfter this and the next 3 comics, what are the odds of seeing the last 2 issues of "Brute Force"? Just seeing the 3rd issue would be good too.
Who was it that was reading that book and saying all that stuff that didn't make sense, who then got the Hallelujah light on him? Actually, I didn't really recognize any of the guys in the Previously On segment, giving my lack of real knowledge of any TGWTG character beyond you, Nostalgia Critic, Nostalgia Chick, Spoony, Brad, Phelous, Todd, Lupa, and Film Brain... was the Previously On segment devoted to the C-list members or something?
ReplyDeleteAlso, the Archie Sonic the Hedgehog comics are getting in on the "restart everything" act. And to top it off, the story that begins it, "Sonic: Genesis," has an amnesiac Sonic waking up in Green Hill Zone and finding himself in his first game. No, really. I suspect it has something to do with the upcoming "Sonic Generations" game...
Also, Ian Flynn is writing a Mega Man comic now. Depending on your viewpoint of him (which I understand is VERY love him or hate him), you may now either rejoice, or weep.
Hooray! The "Previously On" segment returns! So wonderful!!!!!
ReplyDeleteGood as always, though that beginning might have been a little long. For a brief second there, I forgot what show I was watching.
ReplyDelete"... and her fathering a child with you..."
*snicker* :P
BTW: Not to sound like a... well, something bad... but I sent you an email last week about wanting to sell my comic collection. I'm wondering if you got it, or if it perhaps got lost in the spam vacuum.
"Who was it that was reading that book and saying all that stuff that didn't make sense, who then got the Hallelujah light on him? Actually, I didn't really recognize any of the guys in the Previously On segment, giving my lack of real knowledge of any TGWTG character beyond you, Nostalgia Critic, Nostalgia Chick, Spoony, Brad, Phelous, Todd, Lupa, and Film Brain... was the Previously On segment devoted to the C-list members or something?"
ReplyDeleteThat would be Oancitizen, host of the show "Brows Held High."
The others featured were:
-Ed Glaser, of Press Start Adventures and Deja View
-Diamanda Hagan and her self-titled review show
-Nash, from "What the Fuck is Wrong With You?" and his classic Doctor Who reviews. I did a crossover with him recently.
-Welshy from Sad Panda Q&A and his self-titled review show.
-That Dude in the Suede or just Suede, also from his own self-titled review show.
-That Scifi Guy, once again from his self-titled review show.
-JesuOtaku, also self-titled but she also does a Fruits Basket Radio drama.
Basically it's everyone who HASN'T done a Previously On segment yet.
"BTW: Not to sound like a... well, something bad... but I sent you an email last week about wanting to sell my comic collection. I'm wondering if you got it, or if it perhaps got lost in the spam vacuum."
ReplyDeleteI'm a few weeks behind on e-mails. It happens sometimes.
You know it's kinda funny when you think about it. I hate reboots, reimaginings and every other "re" word you can use to mask the fact you are treading the same ground. But after this? I think the reboot is worthwhile just to undo the character assassination that went down here.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, wow. Return of the 'Previously on' and it was great. I don't doubt that it would make a better story than the actual comic. In fact, I'm interested to see what came of JO's little dilemma.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, as for the actual comic, I agree with everybody who has posted before me. They could have done this in so many other ways to make it actually comprehensible. What they did just seemed kind of thrown together at the last minute. I can imagine the idea pitch meeting:
"Ok, so Roy Harper lost his arm and his daughter."
"Yeah."
"So, let's make it so he's hallucinating to see a ghost drug dealer of some sort and then have him fall back into drugs and go on a murderous rampage because his dead daughter said so."
"I like it. Only instead of the murderous rampage, we make it so he goes after one guy and kills or harms severely everyone who gets in his way."
"Because his dead daughter said so."
"Yeah. Oh and the mother should come in somewhere, too."
Bravo, guys. Bravo.
Your point about other people having lost loved ones and being able to empathize with Roy is not only true, it's actually very incredibly true considering who his friends and allies are. I'd say every single person at Lian's funeral has lost an immediate family member.
ReplyDeleteJust last night I was explaining what Half-Life: Full-Life Consequences was to a friend because the subject of zombie ghosts - excuse me, "zombie goasts" - came up. And now this. I'm beginning to think that you're psychic, Linkara XD
ReplyDelete--SageSaria
THE RISE OF ARSE.
ReplyDeleteI feel original and accomplished.
Boy it's felt like forever since we had a "Previously On" segment...don't recognize any of them so I assume they're newer members of the TGWTG staff...heh, I haven't been there in ages.
ReplyDeleteStrangely while you thought of "Half-Life" with Lian, I just had a weird image of the best friend from "An American Werewolf in London"...with a random "Full Metal Alchemist" ending thrown in just to allow for the house to be standing the whole time. Maybe Roy can now go and find a Philospher's Stone to bring Lian back to life...never mind. Otherwise it was just sort of putrid seeing all this and the whole "robot arm" and "impotence" thing just makes me think that maybe that wasn't the only "arm" that needed to be fixed on Roy...ewww. (and thus my random stupid Kikaider joke)
The Pretty Bunny's back! I was beginning to miss it. But what's this? It seems to have friends! If I may ask, from whence did these paragons of porcelain proliferate? Or is that a question best answered by a new story arc? ^_^
ReplyDeleteapparently no one else listens to the greatful dead. china cat sunflower is a song about a trip jerry garcia went on one time.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the review, but I have to be honest about something I disagreed with: part of me doesn't want this just undone with the reboot. I'd like to actually see Roy drag himself out of the dark side, so to speak, rather than just have a magic wand undo it.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, though: I'll be happy for any bit of optimism in the DCnU I can get after reading about Superman's new status quo. (Sorry to vent there.)
It's official, I care more about Superboy Prime's future than I care about Roy's. Here's an idea, a series where Prime rises up to become the hero of Earth Prime, having to make his own legend while having to deal with a world that fears/mocks him because of his actions in the comics? It would be better than this crap. This garbage is why I buy second-hand comics from the 60s-mid 80's with occasional reprints of golden age reprints thrown in. I am looking forward to the new Blue Beetle and hope, nay, pray they fix Captain Marvel. SHAZAM!
ReplyDeleteArsenal? More liek ARSONal amirite.
ReplyDeleteFirst class episode, Mr Lovhaug. You've had a busy couple of months!
Thanks again.
I can usually brush off old terrible Marvel and DC comics with a snicker and a groan. In a pair of fictional universes with such a huge volume of canon work and, in some cases, 60+ years of continuity stuffed into 10-15 years of in-universe time, the crap gets buried fast and I love the idea of characters thinking back on notorious Dork Ages with a "man, what the hell was I smoking?"/"I thought we agreed never to talk about that again." mindset. But when these monumentally stupid things happen, and they're mixed in with gratuitous status quo-breakers and other major changes that can't be forgotten, THAT angers me. And it's almost always character death that causes these things to degenerate from idiotic detour to infuriating wallbanger.
ReplyDeleteThis entire comic (and Cry for Justice) would be a nostalgic joke years down the road if Lian hadn't died. Countdown would have been a hilarious epic if so many characters hadn't randomly bit the dust. Civil War could've been a embarrassing interlude in the Marvel universe's history if Cap (and Jan, etc., after him in Secret Invasion) hadn't copped it for no reason.
The last decade's rash of attempts to make big events "matter" by shaking up the status quo and killing characters for no reason other than quick drama and a cheap excuse to innovate in areas where they're too lazy to come up with new ideas is what makes recent bad event comics so much worse than older ones.
"Your pain is NOT SPECIAL."
ReplyDeleteSO true-- I know MANY people to whom I could say this and probably WILL in future! The sentiment I feel constantly PERFECTLY encapsulated! Linkara . . . you are a gem!
Between all of the hallucinations and the fact that his house (where Lian theoretically died) is inexplicably undamaged, I'd say the whole thing makes far more sense if it's all a hallucination and Roy is actually the prisoner of some mind-bending supervillain somewhere.
ReplyDeleteWhen you think that they introduced Robin the Boy Wonder as the "Great New Character Find of 1940" to make the children who read Detective Comics feel more involved with the action, to give them the hope that yes, one of them could don a costume and fight crime alongside their hero, the senseless slaughter of Lian Harper just feels like an even bigger knife through the gut.
ReplyDeleteAs is the case with all things, in the end, it's always the children that suffer the most.
I think logic went away back in issue one of this nonsense called a miniseries.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't help but wonder where 90s Kid was when you were mentioning that Arsenal turned into a generic 90s hero. But maybe that has something to do with the Entity storyline.
ReplyDeleteAnd what's with comic companies and not wanting their characters to have kids? I would love to see the stories that can arise from, say, Superman taking his marriage to Lois to the next level, and the stories that can arise from a father balancing his duties to the world with his duties in raising his kids. It could draw parallels to families where one member is a police officer (or military families). This sort of story development is what also could have happened between Roy and Lian.
Also, I agree with posters here that she could have gone into a coma instead. It would raise dramatic tension because after Roy decends into drugs and more extreme violence she could wake up and the sory could be told of a man seeking to hide his dark side from his daughter while being pulled between shots at redemption and the urge to give into the life.
Oh boy... Things reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaally go off the deep end this one this time... And what's Christabella doing here playing like she's his daughter?
ReplyDeleteLoved the Previously On segment. :D
Fiery Little One
Wow Iain't got nothing to really say about this! that was just really sad that that got ut on paper and sold to people! I guess to win award for realistic depiction of drug use you just gotta draw a realistic picture of some one sitting in an alley way smoking of a peice of garbage like some junky hobo! In that case all those indie comics that should be winning the hell out of those awards I've seen alot of images like that in those comics! Hell, that comic Linkara hates but I like, The Boys, has alot of scenes where it shows heroes passed out bleeding from the nose from snorting iles of coke and/or meth!
ReplyDeletei feel more sorry for the dead cat!
ReplyDeleteactually for a 90s tragic anti-hero this is still very depressing because even in the 90s they didn't take them this seriously! But you do gotta admit his cyborg/robotic arm looks like classic 90s cheesy metalic arm!
ReplyDeleteSo, does this mean that the 2010s are the new 90s? If so, awesome!!!
This is not any kind of criticism, but just an honest question. If it has been answered elsewhere, I do apologize. I've seen most of your stuff but I haven't found an answer yet.
ReplyDeleteWhen you read from the trades, why DON'T you look at the covers? I get that they aren't as important for trades since they are meant to grab your attention and make you want to buy the book, and that the trade will have its OWN cover for that, but since individual issues did have their own cover at one point, it just feels weird to me that you don't comment on them like you do in other reviews.
"When you read from the trades, why DON'T you look at the covers? I get that they aren't as important for trades since they are meant to grab your attention and make you want to buy the book, and that the trade will have its OWN cover for that, but since individual issues did have their own cover at one point, it just feels weird to me that you don't comment on them like you do in other reviews."
ReplyDeleteYou pretty much nailed it on the head why I don't do it for the trades. XD They may have had their own covers at one point, but since the version that I'm reading from comes from the trade, I just don't see any need to evaluate covers that aren't there.
I missed the non-relevant ‘Previously On’s. Glad to see them back. ^^
ReplyDeleteWow, this just… wow. Starting with serious drama and character development and ending with zombies ghosts is just… so very sad in how terrible a writing move that is- can it even be called a move? Like, it’s such a far stretch, I can honestly say I wouldn’t be surprised if they were just throwing darts at a dartboard to get their ideas (though, now that I think about it, Paw seems to be doing fine with that method for Music Movies, so that means their process was even worse, if that’s even possible). I just… I don’t even know what to say in response to the idea. Writers, you go back to your rooms until you learn to how write better.
And yes, I shall kick all my friends in the head to make sure they don’t take a wrong path with drugs. Thank you, Linkara! Your lesson shall surely save many a children from suffering.
Yes, this is definitely the best "Previously On..." segment you've had yet. I especially like that you featured some of the newer* (and consequently less well known) reviewers.
ReplyDeleteI'm reasonably certain that this series is going to be undone by the revamp, but I honestly have no idea where Roy (or the rest of that set of Titans!) will be at as a character afterwards. Apparently the heroic age of DC 3.0 will be five years old. I look forward to the inevitable "Who Is Donna Troy?" story. Who knows? Maybe the answer will stick this time!
*-- I know Suede's not exactly new, but he was only on the site for a few months before he left, and he only came back with SK, so I feel that counts.
To my understanding, 'China Cat' might actually be a name for heroin (albeit not a common one).
ReplyDeleteAs for Zombie!Lian I'm guessing it's supposed to be his own guilt. Of course I'm a bit bored with writers relying on hallucinations of things like dead family to convey an emotion. A few well written words can convey more than a tired cliche ever could.
Some Trades have the main big issue cover as a cover...just saying anyway Lewis you need to take a break, do another origins month and this time don't cut off the damn JL theme half way through! just let it fade out....
ReplyDeleteNOW! the review was meh as you basically said a man losing his arm and child in a 24 hour period was something he shouldn't whine about. Also, the hallucinations could be the result of his fragile mental state as we saw through this comic he's kinda stuck the rage state of grief and him seeing Lian's could be his way of bargaining. The point is not everyone deals with this the same.
Also this brings up a point not pushed much in DC the fact that some heroes can't deal with personal life pressure and don't triumphantly recover but fall further to the point no one recognizes them. Roy isn't correctly thinking period, he fell hard and fell fast, he's acting irrational and opinionated but , that's him being a human being.
I'd actually like to see that explored more then him being happy single dad or the recovered druggie since they put him in a position where he has lost so much.
Not saying the way he lost Lian or his arm was right or even that this story is good, just if someone did put in this type of position(Say Lian is given to the state until she's 18 due to Roy's super hero life cutting in to his responsibilities as a father.) again I'd like to see someone tell the story of him back on drugs and cracking and falling further and further basically not being trusted by his fellow Titans even but still at the end saving peoples lives and doing what he feels right.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant 'Previously On' segment. I laughed all the way through it.
ReplyDeleteAfter the first part of the review I almost thought that this was going to turn into some kind of PSA. Now I almost wish it did. 'Zombie Ghost Lian'? What the Hell? I can believe that his behaviour would be erratic, and that maybe he'd fall into drugs or something like that after the death of his daugther, but they handled it so completely... strangely... that it's difficult to take a single page of the comic seriously enough for it to get whatever message it was trying to say across.
Also, they left Roy Harper, a Superhero, in a drug rehab clinic for Villains? Do they want him to get killed or what?
I guess the zombie part is guilt over her death or something?
ReplyDeleteBut what the heck did the Electrocutioner have to do with her death?
Revenge? For what? Wasn't that all Prometheus?
And he burns his house? What?
I just... words fail.
Also, nice lecture on other people being addicted to power and control when you're using beating them up in order to satisfy your sexual frustrations... because that never got resolved.
It’s a shame, I actually like Roy's character arc (learned about through your videos I haven't read any titans stuff) learning about his relationship with his daughter and the struggle of juggling two lives seems like something that other companies as well as DC should be exploring.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest during the reboot, i hope they try this story again (not with Roy another character, maybe black canary) and do it right.
There's glimmers of good writing in here and sparks of the real emotions churning around in Roy's head, as you said some of his outbursts are understandable he lost his only daughter after all. The rest of the comic ruins it though, I would much rather have seen Roy retire for a bit and focus on the psychological aspect of his pain for four issues before he accepts what happened and comes back triumphant.
Still wishful thinking.
Nice review
I have to say great review liked it allot... I did on the other hand hate the 4 minuet intro of people i don't know or care about! Watching that almost made my close the video and stop watching... but i knew that if there is something like this... the episode better be worth it... it was but still hated waiting with all these people with all that crap... Ugh please no more of that...
ReplyDelete"I have to say great review liked it allot... I did on the other hand hate the 4 minuet intro of people i don't know or care about! Watching that almost made my close the video and stop watching... but i knew that if there is something like this... the episode better be worth it... it was but still hated waiting with all these people with all that crap... Ugh please no more of that..."
ReplyDeleteYou do realize that this is the fifth time I've done a Previously On segment, right? XD
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=China%20Cat
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I loved the "Random Plot twist" opening, that was a work of art to fit them all in.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Terrorblades: the 4 minute intro wasn't needed. Sure, you've done it before, but that no defense.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that it wasn't funny...at first. But making it 4 minutes long just made it drag and drag. I honestly skipped right past it.
My god... the stuff I have to sit through just to get to the review. Painful... just painful...
ReplyDeleteLinkara,
ReplyDeleteThis admittedly has nothing to do with the video, however, I'd like you to read this series of articles on frank Miller's Batman. I'm sure you'll find them to be a well written counterpoint to your own Millertime videos.
http://www.4thletter.net/category/4thletter-exclusives/frank-miller-owns-batman/
I'd also urge your readers to read through them too. This is why I'm posting them on the newest video, and not through private email.
If you do read them, thank you.
I wanna say that Lian was supposed to be in Mia's apartment in the city when she died, not at Roy's house. That's why he was pissed at Mia, she was supposed to be looking out for her at her apartment when the disaster struck, leaving Lian alone when the building collapsed. Or something like that..
ReplyDeleteThat Miller article is interesting. Maybe I will read ASBAR...but only if they have it at the library.
ReplyDeleteLoved the previously on segment, featuring Diamanda, Oancitizen, That Sci Fi Guy, and Jesu Otaku. I'll tell you all these stories behind these scenes can make better stories than crap like Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal.
ReplyDeleteI especially loved the beat-down against this hated series. They call this the worst comic ever written, especially after the dead cat image. Me, I still think Warrior is the worst comic ever written, but I will say this: this should have been better. This isn't a rise from the ashes story; it's more like the transformation of a hero into a psychopath maniac with the worst parts of the Punisher and Rorschach. It's the worst parts of the 90s all over again, and frankly, I'm surprised that 90s Kid didn't show up for this.
I once predicted that they would do a storyline where the superhero community would launch a massive manhunt for Arsenal. However, with the upcoming relaunch for the DCU following Flashpoint, I don't think we will see this happen.
However, I don't have to remind you that he's part of Deathstroke's Titans Villains for Hire (you should do the run sometime, starting with the prologue issue). If the current storyline, the Methuselah Imperative, is any indication, Arsenal will double-cross Deathstroke and his goons, maybe kill Cheshire in the process.
A lot of people are expecting Cry for Justice and Rise of Arsenal to be removed after Flashpoint. I, on the other hand, am not holding my breath. I think they'll keep those two series in canon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the heroes throw Harper into prison for life for all the murders he's committed, and Harper will spend his time killing off lifers and death row inmates.
Even if through some miracle they bring Lian back, it still wouldn't make things OK, because Lian would have to live with the fact that her father has essentially become a murderer, one of the very people he once fought.
To get more scientific on the hallucinations front, It most likely wasn't because of the drugs that he was hallucinating, otherwise the good doctor there wouldn't have been bothering him until AFTER he got on the drugs again.
ReplyDeleteIt seems (through a quick wikipedia search) Extreme stress and psychological trauma can cause psychosis, which can have the symptom of hallucinations, and I imagine physical trauma can attribute to that as well. Add in the drugs, and it just allows your brain to run more free with an augmented reality overall, whether or not it's a stimulant rather than a depressant.
Do yeah, the Dealer and the girl were probably both just bits of his subconscious.
Short version: Arsenal wasn't a dick, he was just CRAZY.
You know this version of Arsenal actually has some potential.
ReplyDeleteCan you imagine a team up between him and Red Hood?
Or even him talking to his dead zombie daughter and ghost dealer while fighting Joker or somebody.
Lots of future laughs here.
Or even decent storylines if you can get a good writer.
Though really; considering his obvious mental distress it seems odd the JLA didn't set up a permament watch to make sure he didn't hurt himself or others.
My problem with zombie!Lian is this...it's not consistently drawn...they later reveal on her 'tombstone' that she was 5 (sorry? and she's in elementary with him moving her every 6 months from city to city?!), but she's either drawn as a tiny child or at least 9 or 10, and speaking like a 12 or 13 year old. Huh? Also, when he burns down his house that she was mysteriously killed in (that's in the part tastefully not shown), she's miraculously whole and decidedly NOT ghostly as she's screaming at him in the flames as he walks away from the house that has to have the longest driveway in the history of suburbia...there is a SIDEWALK somewhere by his house. I distinctly remember seeing in JT Krul's excellent one shot story with Roy and Lian in pre-wtfbbq Titans.
ReplyDeleteAlso, no mentioned WHATSOEVER, Linkara, of Mia haring off & everyone defends her to Roy when he blames her for Lian's death? I was rather disappointed in you missing that point. If anyone else left a child under the age of 10 alone in a house in a city under threat of being blown to smithereens, that person in the costumed community would have been ripped to pieces and never trusted again.
BTW, I so linked these two reviews on my fan website for the Roy Harper character. I wait, in vain, for the day when Roy's character becomes a hero again. I don't mind him being an anti-hero a la Catwoman but the current tragedy and upcoming questionable occupation in the reboot has me running, screaming for the hills to hide in a bunker until sanity returns.
Anyone have any non-expiring ration packs? I'm gonna need 'em..
Wolfie @ RoyToys-The Unofficial Roy Harper Fan Site
Alright, I'll agree this thing stinks BADLY, but some things did make sense. Yes, if they wanted him to bacome a dark antihero or become a villain or something they could have Lian alive to do it, but it would be easier with her dead. (if that's what they had planned.)
ReplyDeleteAlso, the zombie-ghost makes sense to me. Personally, by the end I think the grief, stress, and pain were taking their toll and he simply went through some kind of pschotic break. The fact that she looked and acted the way she did would be more painful to him than her being her normal self because he blames himself for her death to some extent I'm sure. Plus, its his freaking daughter telling him he failed her as a father, that hurts period.
Yes the miniseries stunk, but mixed in with the sheer stupidity are small kernels of good plot points (VERY small) which could have been used to make a much better and believable comic in which we watch a once good character slowly lose his sanity and identity, becoming something we both hate and pity. Well, it could have been that, had it been done right.
Nice to see this country's still stuck in the 1940s when it comes to actual drug awareness. A book that completely fabricates side-effects, and in fact shows them as much MORE harmful, is given an award for accuracy.
ReplyDeleteI guess it's a good thing it wasn't the demon weed marihuana, or we might've seen Roy go completely insane and murder all those bums after JUST ONE PUFF! If only he'd just had a healthful cigarette or gotten blackout drunk at one of the many completely legal bars in Star City.
That was one of my favorite "Previously on" segments. I actually really enjoy watching them, if only because of how ridiculous they are. And yes, it would have made for a more far more interesting story than this trashy character derailment.
ReplyDeleteI was actually kind of expecting a comparison between Zombie Ghost Skeleton Lian and Christabella, if only because it's a smart-mouth girl that is really just annoying, and Lian's case, more salt in the wound. It's a real shame that the reboot didn't bring Lian back.