I think at this point it's fair to say that Frank Miller has issues with women. And children. And superheroes. And intelligence.
Monday, February 4, 2013
All-Star Batman and Robin #5
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244 comments:
1 – 200 of 244 Newer› Newest»I don't get it. The Magic Gun is SENTIENT. What makes the Gunslinger think she'll let him use her power?
"I don't get it. The Magic Gun is SENTIENT. What makes the Gunslinger think she'll let him use her power?"
That's explained next week.
I'd like to point out that the blood spatter on the Jim Lee cover isn't *completely* random; it's actually in the shape of the Bat-symbol. Though that makes even LESS sense.
Also, my guess is that the delay problems came from two sources. The first, and less important, would be Lee's duties running Wildstorm. However, my suspicioun is that the biggest source of delays was from Lee desperately finding anything else that needed doing--mowing the lawn, painting the bathroom, rewiring his car, ANYTHING--to avoid actually having to go through the pain of reading the script for this turdburger, causing major art delays, because it's AMAZING the number of ways you can come up with to avoid doing something you really don't want to do...
Didn't this one just sort of stop being published after issue #10, with the remaining two issues promised to be published under another title "eventually"? (And who wants to bet that the "eventually" is only there because of contractual issues with Miller that leave DC unable to officially pull the plug on the book?)
Oh Frank it is so good to see you again. Miller Time is hands down my favourite recurring segment on AT4W. Miller has contributed a lot of the industry and I won't take that away from him. However just as every other person out there, you cannot overlook the bad because of the good (or vice versa). I remember you mentioned a commenter that said Frank should get a free pass because of his history (along with a few other names, I forget who). This is idea baffles me. If a person has made quality work then it will stand as quality work. The bad work should be able to be criticized, and compared to the good work. No one is above reproach when it comes to their output. ESPECIALLY when it gets this misogynistic and weird.
I don't know what else to say about this episode, especially since you said so much. Frank is just getting weird in this issue. I haven't read any of these issues myself, but I feel like I would be slamming my head on the desk every few sentences.
Something I have noticed with Frank Miller, is that I tend to prefer his stories over his writing. I liked parts of Batman: Year One, but the way he writes makes it hard for me to get invested in a story. It would be interesting to see modern day Frank Miller, write a story and give it up to an editor and artist to work with. I doubt he would though.
I am looking forward to the rest of ASBAR, and Holy Terror when you get a chance.
I think Miller's work should contain a warning label that reads:
Miller's comics may contain reduced inhibitions, erratic behavior, nonsensical speech, loss of plot coordination, and impaired "character" balance and consistency.
After-effects of his work may include severe confusion, vomiting, unpredictable behavior and stupor, and sudden lapses into and out of unconsciousness or semi-consciousness.
Please consult your nearest comic-book critic if dosing on Miller has triggered any of the following symptoms: headaches, fatigue, tremors, elevated heart rate, or sleep trouble.
Bonker's Betty and Crazy Steve. Sounds like the name of a rejected Stoner flick Duo.
Lewis, I don't want to make a judgement like this right after watching, but . . . I think this may be your best episode yet. For some reason I just think you're at your best when you're reviewing Batman: Fortunate Sun, Miller Time, Noel . . .
Anyway, I'd been waiting for this one and it didn't disappoint. The jokes were great and not too recycled from other reviews. THe pacing was good--I barely felt like half an hour had passed. You pointed out everything I could think of about this issue. I'm no fan of Wonder Woman but Miller screwed her over. As you said, he's turned Batman into a maniac. And seriously, why do so many comics insist on narration captions? Good artwork should show what's going on, how the character feels--not tell us. But then again, a lot of this is just bad storytelling and stylistic choice. After all, "Tropes Are Not Bad, Just Tools."
Frank Miller just seems like he's one of those writers who thinks that since he got popular, he's immune to editors and criticism and does whatever he wants, not thinking of the consequences and unfortunate implications involved in his work. I understand why you have no sympathy for him, Lewis, but I hope he'll admit his mistakes in the future and retire from comic writing before his reputation gets any worse than Holy Terror has already made it. (Speaking of which, I almost hope you don't review it. It's terrible, but just the subect matter alone is likely to start a flame war.)
As for the cliffhanger: Silly Linkara. For a genre-savvy comic reviewer, he sure hasn't learned the number one rule of fiction: Never insist that things are or can go a certain way. But this should be exciting. Can't wait for next week. I have missed the storyline.
Great review Lewis. I was laughing throughout. Only saying "This comic sucks" is taking it way lighter than I thought you would, but then again it might be because you've spent so much Miller Time it's become tiring to go above and beyond (for Linkara anyway, not you per se).
By the way, did you omit credits on purpose?
Thoughts: Okay, that was awful. I'm probably more okay than most with Frank writing his Batman as totally insane and evil. I'm not even THAT disgusted at his odd psycho take on Black Canary. A bit iffy, but if she did what she did in issue three because she was inspired by Frank's psycho Batman, I'll let that slide as well. (When your inspiration is Batman, gender kind of stops mattering.) But, this Wonder Woman? Yeeeeeah...no. When you make Adrienne Palicki's version look sane and reasonable in comparison, SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE.
The sad part is that I have actually met women who behave like Wonder Woman in this comic. Thankfully, they have been very, very few, and even other women couldn't stand them, but they unfortunately do exist. There are extremists in every walk of life and in any and every type of group you can imagine, but unfortunately Frank Miller seems to think that these extremists are the norm for their group.
That being said....I have to actually confess to liking Miller's work. I'm not 100% sure why, really, but every comic of his that I've read I've really, really liked - moreso than most other authors - and I've gone back to read it multiple times. I think I've read his "Dark Knight Returns" and "Dark Knight Strikes Back" a dozen times each by now. ASBAR is definitely his weakest title, but I honestly have to say I still like it. I'm also a fan of Rob Liefeld's series "the Infinite".....does this make me insane?
I love these,
I always found the ASBAR reviews to be my favorites.
This series gets worse each issue, with it now adding being homophobic in addition to blatantly sexist. Congrats Lewis on being able to sit through, and congrats Frank, if this is your beliefs, you make me want to deck you.
I think the whole bit with Wonder Woman and her whole "men suck/why aren't you acting like men?" dialogue might've been intentional on Millers part. His way of showing his anger at hypocritical feminist's who he believes want women to have equal rights unless it benefits them. You know, the whole "I want equal pay and responsibilities, but also want men to hold open the doors and give up their seats for me" idea. Not something that I necessarily believe in or really think exists, but something a noted misogynist like Miller would. Of course this might be giving Miller way too much credit in how he thinks out his schizophrenic rantings.
Also, the first appearance of Wonder Woman in that trench coat. Her skirt looks like it's riding up so high on her you should really be able to see her whozeewhatzitz.
I'm sorry, but what exactly is the plot of ASBAR, really?
It just seems like a serious of events that go nowhere. Five issues in and very little has happened in actual story if you can call it that.
Also, when are we going to get to the Batman / Black Canary slashfic that Frank wrote in this series?
A Batman / Jem crossover? Are you mad? We all know how much Batman HATES Rock and Roll.
Ah Frank Miller. I will spare you from my capitalized rant of rage as is customary for my comments on Miller Time. I like to think that Crazy Steve is really Hush after getting plastic surgery who killed Bruce and took over. Having read the Dark Knight Returns for my Graphic Novel Mass Comm class, I can say that I see where people are coming from when they defend his early work, but I can still see the beginnings of asshole Batman in the latter half of the story.
I will start by saying that I hate Frank Miller as much as the next guy. Moving on. The Wonder Woman cover looks exactly like something one of the prostitutes from Sin City would wear.
Why does Frank insist on giving the spotlight to other DC heroes when he is supposed to be writing about Batman? As confusing as All-Star Superman was at times, at least it was about Superman. Oh, right, now I remember. Frank hates all the DC heroes except Batman, so he has to make them as terrible as he can in comparison to "Batman" or Steve. Thanks, Frank you giant sack of crap.
Eh WW/Supes wasn't only in Dark Knight Returns Universe. It was also in Kingdom Come Universe where it worked ok enough but only after Lois had died and Diana helped him recconect with the world.
FINALLY! Frank Miller has come back to AT4W!
I found the secret origin of crazy steve!!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/moviebob/10083-That-Also-Almost-Happened
Please disregard the final part of my comment regarding Frank's attention to the Justice League since you covered it yourself, practically word for word. My bad.
Is it just me or does Miller's emphases remind anyone else of a miserably failed attempt at iambic pentameter?
I would actually comment about the artwork or at least my own personal opinion of Jim Lee, if that is all right. While Jim Lee does a good job at landscape and architecture drawing as well as drawing beautiful women and heroic strong men, I feel that he is lacking at drawing diverse expressions. Most of what I have seen with his work is basically scowling faces or blank expressions that contort into scowling faces. Also, I feel that most of his women look the same when he draws them.
Well at least he can make insane people look convincing.
What is the overarching story of this anyway?
Alfred was creeping me the FUCK out! How is it that Frank Miller can happen to make this series WORSE with each passing issue? It's like hitting SUB-rock bottom. WTF?!
"Eh WW/Supes wasn't only in Dark Knight Returns Universe. It was also in Kingdom Come Universe where it worked ok enough but only after Lois had died and Diana helped him recconect with the world."
Yeah, but Kingdom Come was GOOD and the scene of them kissing wasn't about "an alpha male calming down some uppity woman," it was exactly what the narration described it as. Them getting into a relationship afterwards was just an Epilogue and not really anything truly important.
@KamenRiderGumo
Well, there is difference between liking something and enjoying something.
*Linkara falls over after being shot by the gunslinger*
Gunslinger: "Well, that was surprisingly simple. I should have done that to begin with..." *takes note* "Do... not... get into... gunfight... hide first... instead of... facing off..." *finishes*
Little note on Sentience for the gun. Just because she is aware and can control her abilities to an extent does not mean she can do anything about her situation.
So much waiting for the story line to continue and its getting shot in the back and him saying thanks.
Really hope more than this got filmed.
Oh yeah there was a comic review in this video too... Um there were still some expectations after the prior 4? Any chance of getting Bearded Idiot, Steve, and Betty a guest pass or residency permit for an Arkham on a planet where life has already been wiped out? I mean just because a reality is devoid of life doesn't mean all the structures went with the people ya know?
I know its not going to stop this from being in another Miller Time but does the rest of the series really need reviewing? Does any of it ever get better?
I be honest, I never look forward to your Miller reviews.
I feel your personal dislike of Frank Miller (as well as his attitude to women in comics) makes you go after him in a personal way and treat his output as worse that it is (I believe you've said you don't even like The Dark Knight Returns that much).
If you hadn't padded "Miller-time" out like this you'd be long done with It (Holy War not withstanding). Heck, you've probably reviewed as much by Rob Lienfield as Frank Miller (if not more) but you don't have special Lienfield segment.
And while I've haven't read Holy War I still don't like the way you make Miller into a pariah when, call me mad if you want to, I still feel he has more good under his belt than bad (I repeat, you've stretched this out for a longer than it needed to be).
And Having first seen your All-star Batman 1&2 review, then borrowed a trade of 1-6 from my library to judge for myself, while I can say while sub-par for Miller it still had more passion and personality than anything I've read from the apparently flawless Neil Gaiman and Alan Moore.
(I feel my personal dislike of Moore mirrors yours of Miller. The only thing I've read by him that didn't strike me as self-indulgent, pretentious drivel was The Killing Joke. The Idea that Watchmen deserves to be compared with Heart of Darkness or any other true classic of literature makes me shake my head with disbelief).
Any how I look forward to you reviewing something else next week. Shame I have to skip this as it is storyline related and I’ll just have to do guess work next week.
Not to defend Miller's writing...but "banging" IS a British term for, basically "beaten up." So Alfred isn't quite so creepy here.
Yeaah, the "black-eyed angel" stuff, using a punching bag and being that ripped at his age...ok, Miller's Alfred is still kinda creepy.
Great review...and that stinger, eek! Good stuff.
Do we have to wait for next week for the next part, or are you going to put out something on Wednesday like you were thinking?
"Heck, you've probably reviewed as much by Rob Lienfield as Frank Miller (if not more) but you don't have special Lienfield segment."
Only because I haven't thought of a catchy name for it yet.
Dude, I think you might want to calm down a bit. In the beginning of the episode, you sounded kind of irritated that some people had asked you if you'd seen the Dark Knight Returns movies. We know that you value the comics far more than the other medias. I'm sure that when people asked you that, they were just curious.
Can someone explain to me why Plastic Man is randomly shapeshifting in his panels? At one point, he turned into a bear trap and bit Superman's leg. WHY?!
And the random emphasis, dear god, Frank just doesn't let up, does he? You know frankly, with how much he kept writing like that, I'm surprised he doesn't talk with random emphasis.
ya always gotta watch out for them sneak attacks. that is when the enemy always wants to strike.
havign a bunch of magic guns..... just does not make sense to me. unless she has sixteen arms hidden undeneath his coat, there is no way the gunslinger could utilize all of their power at once. far as i know at least. we will have to see.
gunslinger is a bit of an interstin enigma, but i have to ask. why in god's name is that guy wearing Edward Ulric hair.
My god, this was atrocious...What Miller has done to Batman and Wonder Woman in this is unforgivable. This whole All-Star Batman & Robin series is unforgivable. And you know what the worst part is ? DC Comics apparently stated that every last one of Miller's Batman works, even the good ones like Year One and TDKR, are all part of the same continuity...I cannot accept the fact that the Batman from these two comics and Crazy Steve are the same person...
I have to admit
It's really hard for me not to like Miller's work, ESPECIALLY stuff like this
There's just something radiating from his work, that will not let you tear you'r eyes off of it
It's presence is especially strong in Sin City and 300 (ESPECIALLY in 300)
The words that come off the top of my head are: primal, boundless, raw, and unchained
It's a similar type of attraction that radiates from works such as Fist of the North Star, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, Conan the Barbarian, Starship Troopers, the Punisher, the Marvel Now Thunderbolts, Warhammer, Exalted, Metalocalypse, Megas XLR, Heavy Metal, and basically everything made by Quentin Tarantino
I think it has something to do with our collective ancestral memory, dating back to the days when only the ones to bow down before the giant, muscle-bound, huge ax wielding, battle-cries screaming warrior, would be the ones to live long enough
I guess that a picture is worth a thousand words
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/MansLife195505May19557_1650.jpg
http://1d4chan.org/images/5/5a/IMPATIENTMARINES.jpg
http://1d4chan.org/images/8/86/Hell_Yeah_by_Gannadene.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdCpF8o5LUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V4VxlsMuQ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap4pYT3chzQ
On another note
I found some potential reviewing material for you by Alan Moore!
It's a part of his Swamp Thing run, which is otherwise pretty damn awesome.
Can't say which issue it is, as I read it as part of a trade (the 3rd hardcover volume to be exact)
In this one-off story, Alan Moore essentially identifies a woman having her period, and werewolves, as being essentially the same thing!
A woman literally turns into a werewolf, because she's on her period (there's the additional explanation that her house was built on the site where a native tribe would send their women when they were on their periods, so that they would not "corrupt the land")
It goes even further when, in her wolf form, she goes on a misandryst rampage, ranting about how our society oppresses women
this comes off as especially bizarre, as earlier in the comic we were shown what sort of things women were forced to endure in the past, seeing as she herself didn't really have it so bad (while her husband did hold the "stay in the kitchen" view, he didn't come of as a particularly bad person, and it's even stated that the worst they ever got was merely arguing)
If Moore was trying to be feminist, he went on it in a very bizarre direction
Oh, and seeing how this is a Batman review, I just happened to find a really awesome Batman fan-song!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVok-7tDFF8
Shooting a man in the back... The Gunslinger is completely and totally devoid of any sense of honor whatsoever. At least Vice appeared in front of you.
Also You usually reviewed 2 issues at a time of ASBAR, why only one this time?
"Shooting a man in the back... The Gunslinger is completely and totally devoid of any sense of honor whatsoever. At least Vice appeared in front of you."
"Well, it's the safest way, isn't it?" - Elim Garak
"Also You usually reviewed 2 issues at a time of ASBAR, why only one this time?"
Time, really. Last week was mostly spent filming the finale for the storyline and while this is a text review that I turned into a video, I had to do a lot of rewrites on the original script for it. I also couldn't remember if I had done #6 in text form, so I figured the best way to save time was to only do one. Considering the episode ended up abotu 27 minutes long, that was probably for the best.
you know how bad this comic is though? its so bad that the idea of watching a review bashing it to hell is painful enough. i walked out, realized i had taken too long, and by the time it was over you were blasted by the gunslinger, out cold.
normally i only get this way with Phelous review. he is a fairly good review and funny in a.... very awkward way. but sometimes the material of his reviews is just so brainless that i cannot stand even seeing one or two scenes that are essential in showing how bad it is. shutters. its far from the content of the reviewer but the contents of their review. andi fuckign sat through the whole review of Felidae, which is a german cartoon movie for adults that is in the air of sherlock homes with a bunch of cat murders....... with full detail of their torn throats and or disemboweled bellies.
but, i will persevere, cause it is one of your reviews.
I don't think the Superman/Wonder Woman pairing is stupid. It can work if done right.
The rest of this though? Oh yeah, it's stupid.
Ah, Miller Time. Is it just me, or does bashing Frank Miller's work never ever ever get old?
Alfred may be creepy, but somehow he still manages to look better than he does in the "Beware the Batman" previews. I credit Lee's artwork. Nothing can save that dialogue, though. Great Hera.
Between Gotham being a "sultry siren" and the bizarre sexualizing of Central City in "The Spirit" I think it's fair to say Frank probably shouldn't be allowed in the architecture section of the library.
I can't help thinking that it would be interesting if a "Miller Time" had both one of his god awful stories, and one of his actual good ones to highlight just how far he has slipped. Far be it from me to tell anyone how to handle their business, just a thought I had.
So, Linkara, when exactly do you think Frank Miller went coocoo for coco puffs?
Hey, don't compare Marv to Crazy Steve! He's a lot more sane and likable of a character.
Dear God did this comic blow, and the worst part, it's only gonna get worse and worse in future issues. It's moments in asbar like the kidnapping of dick, the leaving him to starve in the cave, or seeing that he has guns on display, that make me wish the animated series batman would come in, dropkick this crazed drug peddling hobo, and take back everything that belongs to him.
Also, just came to me. Back in the review of issues 3 and 4 when u asked if the irish have secret ninja powers, i'd say it's mostly just that the Irish are skilled in the art of bar fighting.
""Heck, you've probably reviewed as much by Rob Lienfield as Frank Miller (if not more) but you don't have special Lienfield segment."
Only because I haven't thought of a catchy name for it yet."
How about "Liefield of Dreams"?
The next volume in ASB&RTBW?! Awesome! Next you'll give me the next issue of Marville!
Oh frank miller. Oy vey. Yeah this was book even I stopped reading. Talk about the reboot reminds me how I much I hated it the wonder woman and gave it up. How much I miss the real old DCU. Oh god that reminds of back to Superman/Wonder Woman stupidity in current DCU. Even before the text in review. Seriously Wonder Woman/Superman only work alternate universes or fanfics. Not even the right superman or wonder woman either current 52. I picture that Crisis on this world with red sky has Al Gore screaming on tv saying sky caused global warming/climate change just as anti matter sweeps him away.
I was reminded that I found a box full of old doubles including Batman/Spawn, a bunch of liefield books, batman, superman, issue of Dark Knight Returns, and other books.
oh Frank your like the Brian Micheal Bendis when it comes to writing teenage Spide-Man [yes Ultmate spider-man sucks.] and like Geoff Johns when he does Wonder Woman. FAIL!!! At least bendis and Johns can actully write, Frank is a one hit wonder and seems to be a one trick poney, thank you Lewis.
the Gunslinger stole Margret!? but she's awesome, and pretty. you go get up and kick that cheaten monkey's ass. ^^
I'm not trying to defend Frank Miller at all, but my one criticism is about Batman's arsenal. Most of those weapons may not necessarily be for use, just thing he's seized from criminals. He's "getting guns off the street" in the most literal sense possible. In addition, in better comics, Batman has been seen training with Robin at a firing range, not so they would know how to use them, but so they could better understand the weapons (different kinds, how fast they fire, how long it takes to reload, and firing spread.) So, while the rest of this comic is pure cowpat, I'm not terribly upset about Batman having guns in his closet. Now, the medieval-type armor, I've got some complaints about... mainly, WHY?!
Is it just me, or does the cover art look like it's drawn by somebody in junior high with watercolor? It looks really odd. Also if her bra is supposed to be made out of leather, why does it have a sharp edge below her breast that not even corsets would have? My god this cover is stupid.
American comics don't have that much impact in Europe, but if someone like Frank Miller would write such sexist stuff in a major magazine or something a lot of people read, society would demand that this guy gets fired.
"Heck, you've probably reviewed as much by Rob Lienfield as Frank Miller (if not more) but you don't have special Lienfield segment.
Only because I haven't thought of a catchy name for it yet".
And Just as well that you haven't.
It's your show but it does seem to me that Atop the Forth Wall should be about making fun of bad comics, not personally attacking the writters of said comics (with maybe a minnor exception for Joey Q as that's more political than artistic. Even so please don't start a "Quesada Time" segment or such like).
"Frank doesn't realize he's writing Batman, he thinks he's writing the Creeper."
Or perhaps the Shadow...
Miller time is some of your best work Linkara. As for the gunslinger arc I have to say: Why didn't you do that before? When I play Skyrim, I always go for stealth and surprise attacks.
"Hey, don't compare Marv to Crazy Steve! He's a lot more sane and likable of a character."
And arguably more ethical, as well.
"Flag on the moon, how did it get there?"
I tip my hat to you for that reference sir, i needed a good laugh today.
also, did you know that the narrator in that movie was in fact Coleman Francis?
You gotta think that he snuck into the recording booth to do that dialogue and then personally edited into the soundtrack because he knew that even HIS crew wouldn't let him put something that stupid in the movie.
And since i can't think of a better way to end this, any speculation as to what may have caused the lights to go out on the super bowl last night? My personal theory to last nights power outage at the super bowl is that Johnny from Airplane got lost and thought that he was unplugging the runway lights.
How about "Bomb the Rob"? Every time you use it, send a check to this address.... Oh, and since someone already requested a comic (I looked it up, it's Saga of the Swamp Thing # 40. I hope you do it, it looks bad.), can I humbly request the mini series X-men Deadly Genisis? I know you hate x-men, and besides a few runs from decades ago, I agree. However, this really is the One More Day of X-men.
Batman and Jem crossover wouldn't work. It would have to be Batman VS Jem because Jem as you know worships Rock & Roll and we all know how Batman hates Rock & Roll.
Twice in a row now? Couldn't you at least die it white and be more idiotic for some of those. Or maybe change up the song you sing?
Some "I'm not gonna Panic", "Take a Chance" has the line about forgetting what you just read, heck badly sing the season 0 opening or use your future self cut away instead.
Anything but that GX suit twice in a row.
The text recap to video drought is over!
"Anything but that GX suit twice in a row."
You're just jealous of my badass coat.
"Twice in a row now? Couldn't you at least die it white and be more idiotic for some of those. Or maybe change up the song you sing?"
Gus, that's the Obelisk Blue uniform of Duel Academy from Yu-Gi-Oh GX. Bumper updates are pretty much on the backb right now. And really, there's no better song to go with the suit, considering Yu-Gi-Oh doesnt have as much music as, say, Pokemon. Especially when GX's dub was cut short and by cut short I mean royally neglected and abused. It's for this reason that
1) Yu-Gi-Oh's popularity has plummeted in the US and
2) I for one welcome our blue coated cosplaying overlords
You know I'd love to see a comic where heros rise to defeat this horrid supervillan called " the batman ".
@Markus Criticus:
I don't see the distinction, really; if you can't enjoy something, you don't like it. And if you like something, how could you not enjoy it?
@Knightsky:
I'm impressed that someone else even knows about The Shadow and his maniacal, demonic laughter meant to strike fear into the hearts of his enemies (and sound really, REALLY cool over the radio when voiced by the legendary Orson Welles.)
"Batman and Jem crossover wouldn't work. It would have to be Batman VS Jem because Jem as you know worships Rock & Roll and we all know how Batman hates Rock & Roll."
With the Wolfman/Perez Titans line-up having to smack some sense into him at the end. Because 80s.
How come you didn't comment that "cow tipping" was spelled with a K?
Because poor literacy is kewl ;D
So I just noticed this, there's a panel with a random, floating piece of metal that your eyes are immediately drawn to because it's out of place, and it's shaped like a penis. Hell, Superman's geturing to it. At 13:00 in this video.
I'm not saying this to be funny, but just...why? Freudian slip, there, Miller? Are you trying to assert masculinity subtly?
Well, Mechakara had to wear his Linkara's skin to control the magic gun. We shall see the Gunslinger's solution...
"Out of my way sperm bank."
"No one loves anyone, darling. We just survive."
"Black-eyed angel."
"It's like a museum if museums could breathe."
Who could honestly write those phrases and think to themselves, "Yeah, I want this to be published under my name and released to the public for scrutiny"?
Honestly, why was (or is) Frank Miller allowed to write Batman or anything Justice League related? He doesn't seem to know any of these characters and disrespects them constantly (both male and female).
Anyway, to the storyline:
Gunslinger just shot Linkara in the back when his guard was completely down in his own apartment?! Where is that jerk's honor?
But seriously, how does he expect to actually use Margaret/the Magic Gun? In addition to the magical karma (which I assume that she can sense), she is implied to be picky about her wielder. If only Linkara and the people he chooses can physically use the gun, then what will stop her from either shutting her power off or taking revenge for hurting Linkara? She could easily put him through the same horrific mind-screw of death that she did to the people who sacrificed her to create the gun if she wanted to.
I'm just saying that the Gunslinger might not have thought the "stealing the Magic Gun" thing completely through.
In Franks defence he's not completly against strong women he did create Elextra one of the most badass females in the Marvel Universe
About the Alfred thing, I do wanna point out that it was stated (I think it was the Batman wikia) that the guy was former SAS. Which, kinda makes sense that he'd wanna stay in shape (hell, I've seen guy's from the Afghan war and they are in good shape even for their age.) But having said that, they did kinda go overboard with making the guy a lil' way to muscular. An despite what I pointed out, this comic still blows
Tia Wheeler: Except for Vicki Vale, I think I'd mostly zoom through the first three or four issues if I did a video on this. Here's the dumbest stuff on the remainder:
#6: Vicki Vale seduces Jimmy Olsen
#7: Black Canary and Batman have sex
#8: The cover, where The Joker is just ROCKING a Francis Dollarhyde cosplay. (Seriously, Frank!?)
#9: Massive medical inaccuracy following Robin managing to crush Hal Jordan's trachea. (note: #9 is probably the strongest issue.)
#10: "This Arcade belongs to the f-ing Batgirl."
2 things: 1) My brain hurts.... This comic... is painful...
2) Linkara, can you review Brightest Day? In my opinion, it's a big kick in the balls to Deadman and Identity Crisis and all I'm really doing right now is trying to distract myself from this comic...
Maybe Frank wanted Wonder Woman to be 'Rorschach'? The trench coat and the 'journal style' monologues...
you know, you've got a "great" comic when the first thing you think when seeing the cover is "Oh God!THAT'S the cover?!".
Seriously, who would ever want to buy anything with THAT as a cover... You know other than insecure teenagers who need a "See it's not for kids!" excuse.
It's really amazing how bad this one is, just A-Z, everything is terrible.
Wait... Allstar batman and Robin still hasn't ended?? Didn't they replaced with the earth one universe? Was it canceled or did they just decided to ignore it?
Not sure, but where were the end credits? I am sure someone has to have asked this, but I always look forward to the zinger at the end. It wasn't there! GASP!
Very nice review Lewis; your frustration with how awful the plot and dialogue in this atrocity of a comic are was palpable. IMO, Jim Lee's penciling was pretty good, but whoever did the coloring destroyed the quality of the pencils. I suspect that ASBAR was not put together in the "Marvel style" and that Jim Lee and the rest of the art team were expected to follow Frank's script to the letter. That might have been the reason for the delay: Frank had a veto over the artwork and demanded that DC not release the book until it was done to his specifications. However that's just a hunch on my part, I don't know why the book had such a long delay, nor do I care. While there is some nice artwork (the nose guard on WW's tiara is reminiscent of a Spartan helmet and the splash pages are very nice) the sheer amount of misogyny and the idiocy of the plot make it something I'd never want to read (let alone buy) in a million years.
You compared ASBAR to All-Star Superman. There's no comparison at all. Grant Morrison has an abiding affection for Superman and while I'm not fond of the way he give's Clark a bit of a Messianic Complex, Morrison definitely understands what makes the character tick. The Superman who appeared in All-Star was a composite of the Silver Age, Bronze Age and Post-Crisis Superman, a tribute to a bygone era without wallowing in nostalgia. In a sense Morrison's Superman is the polar opposite of Frank's "Crazy Steve" Batman; I can't imagine "Crazy Steve" (or Frank Miller) having any empathy for someone with psychological issues. By contrast, the scene with the suicidal girl in "All-Star Superman" always makes me tear up when I read it. The warmth and compassion displayed in just a few panels; that is Grant Morrison's Superman.
The real comparison should be made between Frank's "Crazy Steve" Batman and Morrison's "Batman of Zur-En-Ahr w/ Bat-Mite tagging along" from "Batman R.I.P." Somehow Morrison's zany take on the loopier Batman stories from the Silver Age being a manifestation of Bruce Wayne's mental defenses is not nearly as crazy (or creepy) as anything in "ASBAR". So congratulations Frank, you succeeded at making a crazier Batman than even Grant Morrison could at the expense of making an unreadable comic book.
WOW i almost forgot how crazy Frank Miller got how is he still getting jobs again anyway great review and it's greet to get back to atop the fourth wall's story again your writing is amazing
I'm about 4 weeks behind on your show, and haven't had the chance to watch this episode yet. Were there any storyline segments in the Raver #1 review, the car wash of doom review, or the Happy Days review?
Also, someone already noted the thing about Batman having guns in his closet. I think it's actually a bit of a "know the enemy by knowing the kind of weapon they use" kind of thing. This is admittedly Frank Miller we're talking about, but that sort of thing has been seen in other Batman stuff. I think the best instance of that was in Batman: Gotham Knight, when Alfred asks Bruce why he was keeping all those guns he found in the sewers.
Also also, did you get a chance to watch the Power Rangers Megaforce premiere? If you did, what did you think?
This might be me being confused, but wasn't Batman packing heat in the Golden Age?
.....and here i thought that the avengers arena bullshit had enormous character inaccuracies when one character died of a broken neck because the idiot author thought that bird bone hollow is the same as Mass Effect joker's legs, and that arcade ate the infinity gauntlet.
when did this comic come out? i think either frank miller was inspired by that sociopathic maniac from you, nash, and film brain's wonder woman review, or that he inspired them.
wonder woman quaking? if only it was legal to castrate another man for the sake of extreme stupidity. hell, technically wonder woman might be the one of the few people who is a major threat to the man of steel. superman is vulnerable to magic, and she was born of godly magic at that. clay given life by the gods. not to mention the major difference between them is that while superman is quite the brawler, wonder woman is a trained combatant.
the prostitue problem with frank milelr has always been in his works. one of his most renowned works is batman year one where he made it that catwoman's origins is literally as a prostitute. however in that case it was sensible and well done, as she became much more than that thanks to batman's inspiration.
i saw the dark night returns, and i have to say it seems to follow the story pretty damn closely. some liens are more hammy than dramatic, but only a few, and they seemed to up carrie kelley's age by a year or two, but otherwise both movies were both accurrate and awesome, well animated and pretty damn true to the book. hell i would almost list the movies as movies almost good enough for theatrical release too.
strangely enough, what i want to see is the so caleld sequel fo this, but done in a way that it takes all the batshit fucking crazy and monstrosity out of it and replace it was a telling of the tale more accurrate to not only the characters, but to the dark knight returns.
though that is a lot to take out of. no evil shape shifting dick grayson, no catgirl, no encouragement of killing, no making superman go into a god complex, jesus a lot would have to be ommitted and changed.....
You know I was glad you mentioned this cause its a major problem I have with some of Frank's Batman stories. He brings in the Justice League all of a sudden and starts talking about them. Usually there's a reason and its limited. But DKSB and this comic just suck these characters into a story they don't belong in.
I can only guess its because Miller wants to show how much better Batman is compared to everyone else. And that he makes the other heroes douchebags, or jerks or elitist to prove Batman is superior. And I really don't like how he constantly tries to make Bats and Supes enemies. They're supposed to be friends, vitrolic best buds who keep the other honest or bring them down to earth.
If you wanna do a story where Superman and Batman are at odds, fine, that creates great drama, but it should be the kind of drama between friends when they disagree or have an argument. It shouldn't come across like they hate each other's guts and want nothing to do with one another.
Public Enemies became one of my favourite of DC Animated Movie releases because I felt it captured that unique friendship they both have. Superman and Batman, the world's finest, best friends, whether they're stomping bad guys or cracking jokes little jokes between each other's backs. They can be jerks to each other, but they're still friends. I like that, I like it more than seeing them fight to be honest.
The Wonder Woman part just takes the cake though. I mean, Jesus. What is Miller's problem with women? He makes Catwoman a prostitute, he turns Wonder Woman into a feminazi, there was that Bruno character in DKR... who I never got even I first read it. Chances are, if Harley Quinn existed a decade earlier she would've been in a skimpy outfit far sooner than the reboot.
I just really don't get why Wonder Woman was brought in, really I don't have a clue. Why can't we focus on Batman solving the mystery behind the murder of Robin's parents? You know, actually show him doing detective work instead of going around town punching people and laughing like a crazy man?
This is why All Star Superman won an Eisner and this comic is remembered for an overused meme. Miller needs someone to sit him down and watch while he writes. Someone who isn't afraid to tell him "You know Frank, maybe we shouldn't make Wonder Woman a man hating bitch. And do we really need the Justice League in this story? Come on man."
But after Holy Terror, I imagine no one is going to touch Frank with a ten foot pole for writing jobs. I mean, he'll probably still get work or publish independently, but I just don't see him like making another movie is what I'm saying. It's sad to see a once respected writer lose his grip on reality. I don't whether to blame Sin City or to blame the possibility no one told him where to draw the line for fear of criticising a comic legend.
"The Thunderbolts. They stab them both"
If only you were a Thunderbolts fan. You would have made a "Songbird twists the knife" joke.
(Context being that during an interview for a creative change for the thunderbolts, the artist mixed up the personalities of the characters Songbird and Moonstone, mistaking Songbird as the aggressive one. So he said "Moonstone may stab you in the back, but Songbird will twist the knife." In the comic, nothing that drastic occurred. :P)
*sigh* It's a shame you don't feel like finishing this right now. Guess we got to wait another 2 years before we see #6.
Geez, I don't think Moon Knight and the voices/alter egoes in his head (one of which is named Steve) is as loony tunes as All-Star Crazy Steve and his wacky friends. And Moon Knight once cut off a a guy's face and wore it as a mask once.
Hey Lewis, when you finally reach issue 12 of ASBAR, will you burn the book?
Also, Holy Terror? I have a feeling since that's getting requested a lot you should be saving that for a special occasion, like say the 300th episode if we get there.
These reviews featuring "Crazy Steve" and now "Bonkers Betty" are getting harder and harder to watch. Just because the comic has no problem with throwing around ableist bs doesn't mean I'm comfortable with "psychotic" and "schizophrenic" being used to get across how nonsensical the characters and the storyline is.
Oohhh I hate to do this...but you mispronounced Boreas (Bor-Eh-Us). Sorry, but I'm kinda uppity when it comes to Greek Mythology names :). Anywho, I actually sat down and read this entire piece of crap in Books-A-Million one day and I eagerly await the episode dealing with the scene of Batman and Robin's little fight with Green Lantern :).
So let's see here, Batman is a drunken hobo, the Justice League is a bunch of crazy mental patients, Alfred is so muscular that he could be a better superhero than the losers mentioned above, and Robin is about to go on a murderous rampage. Good job Franky-Boy! Also, the Gunslinger has the Magic Gun. I can't wait for the storyline conclusion next week. P.S. When you review Marville #4 the week after, be sure to remember that Holo-Kara did Marville #3.
I have a theory on the Gunslinger he's a child who like Margret was going to be turned into a magic gun but somehow escaped and now wants to claim all lost souls in the guns because honestly I'm not getting an I'm evil vibe from the Gunslinger more ah I have a goals get out of my way vibe.
Good show as usual I can't wait for next week and the end of this story
if done right time stamps can add to comic or a comic based show and show connection between scenes and events plus cintext just look at the show YOUNG JUSTICE for example,its just this time(no pun intended)it didnt work.
I have to agree with "ForgetTheLyrics" about Batman keeping guns in the cave. This came up a while ago in the main DCU (possibly during the "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" storyline), where Nightwing had a flashback to his days as Robin. That showed Batman and Robin literally juggling guns during training: the idea was that Batman hates guns, but he isn't afraid of them, and he wanted to teach Robin how to handle them safely. That sounds reasonable to me, e.g. it would be useful to know how to turn a safety catch on or eject the ammunition.
Re: The armory of guns in the Batcave
Yes, Batman refuses to use guns. However, the Batcave does indeed have an armory full of guns that Batman keeps and maintains to do ballistics tests.
This came up before the Bruce Wayne: Murderer? arc because it was found out that Batman bought a gun as Bruce. I think the explanation was that he wanted to understand better why people would buy or use guns. (This arc is right in the middle of the Batman is a jerk alienating all his friends phase of Batman prior to Infinite Crisis)
And when the video footage of this is seen, Nightwing asks "If Bruce wanted a gun, why didn't he just use one from the Armory?"
Margret!
I sense the Gunslinger's universe getting a taste of Comicron 1's weaponry.
As for the comic...
I know ellipses can be annoying but the sheer WTF of the comic causes my brain to stall.
Was Plastic Man there only to be in strange poses while people argued? (The image of him as a bear trap on Superman's leg made me need to pause the video.)
Was Dick Grayson(sp?), age 12, still wearing his circus costume under that, what looked like clown pajamas? (the puffy parts on the front made me think "clown".)
I know you like to screw with expectations but was SO hoping for a shot of Vir waving at Mordan's head on the pike (Babylon 5) or the scene saying he wanted that. That hand wave is one of the coolest resolutions of all time.
And the reboot put Superman and Wonder Woman together? Sure why not?
Ugh.
Miller Time was painful today, I give you credit for getting through it and SO understand why we've not gone back to ASBAR before now.
-@Dragons_Dusk
(I do apologize if those goes through twice, Google got weird on my when I signed in to send and routed me back here with the message in the comment box still).
I think "kowtowing" is pronounced differently than you said it. I've always heard it as tow rhyming with cow, not tow as in toe. Maybe I heard it wrong... or maybe it's just another wacky Linkaraism!
Uhm Lewis... http://4thletter.net/2009/05/smoke-em-if-you-got-em-kids/
There's a Doctor Who/Jem crossover: http://comics.shipsinker.com/?id=478
I like the reviews, but please stop emphasizing the bold and/or italicized text. It's gone beyond a joke at this point and is getting to where I want to stop the video because of how bad it's making all your sentences sound. It's ruining your reviews for me.
Great review, as usual! The only flaw was when the review got to the line "The Thunderbolts, they stab them both", I was expecting something like "Wait, now they're bringing the THUNDERBOLTS in, too? Bad enough we're wasting time with the Justice League!"
I want to punch that gunslinger in the face. The character, not your friend Wil. Wil's cool. But I still want to punch that gunslinger in the face. Dirty, low down, douchebag. X(
How exactly did you miss the Gunslinger on the other side of the door cause it didn't look like he was hiding behind the door
Two things that REALLY need to be pointed out to the rest of the commenters:
-the lack of credits. So? He's done this for EVERY cliffhanger of the storyline. For Ultimates 3 #5, for Youngblood #2, Youngblood #3, Spider-Man: Planet of the Symbiotes, and Youngblood #4. Why is this strange NOW?
-"how can the Gunslinger possibly use the gun?" ... need I remind you all how part 1 of this story ended?? His 3rd appearance? His...acquisition? Knowing Mr. Lovhaug, he could throw us (or just me it seems) for a loop, but that really is the most likely theory.
You know what? Fuck Insano. Frank Miller is Linkara's true arch nemesis.
@ 6:29 - I think Frank Miller attempted to make the readers, most likely boys and young men, to equate men and manliness with the business world.
@ 7:20 - *applause * “internet meme it is”
@ 9:20 – have YOU ever worn high heels?
@ 11:07 – the italics used in comics and most fictional writing have two different sounds when read out loud. One strengthens the volume and crispness of the emphasis, the other slackens the volume and crispness. When you can differentiate the two, when the passage is read out loud, the italics make sense. English should have italics and inverse italics to differentiate the two. (But you were an English major and are an actor and probably knew all that right?)
@ 11:39 – I know that Miller uses Hal Jordan but it would have made sense if it was Kyle Rayner… or maybe he was just alluding to Douglas Adams for some reason
@ 12:49 – Maybe he was teasing an All- Star Justice League?... A lot...
@ 13:31 – LOL he’s setting up the justice league as bad guys; what the flying frell?
@ 13:42 – Boreas is one of the guardians of the watch towers; specifically the north. In Greek mythology he is one of the four winds.
@ 22:42 –pants.
@ 24:05- I couldn’t stop laughing for 5 min, I had to pause the video.
@ 27:10 – but what if it *was* the blood on the cover seeping into the pages and the cover artist did that as the last bit and thought it would be a cool bit of artistic expression. Sounds like the kinda thing I would do.
@ thorondragon – actually there is a way to use all those magic guns at once. Pool their power in a spell circle or some kind of magic powered science matrix. Use that pooled power for something.
Holy Lame catchphrases Batman Steve!
The ending i must say was one of your best Linkara it seriously came right out of nowhere and on top of that we another miller time! Wins all around! Awesome work!
"Only because I haven't thought of a catchy name for it yet."
How about Lienfield's anatomy?
I think the way to do a Batman Crossover with JEM and the hollograms will require having the Misfits, most likely Pizzaz hook up with Harley Quin. After all the Misfits songs are about selfishness and Rage and Destruction. Maybe Harley's ability to smile through it all will help them draw in the crowds that the Hollograms keep stealing from them.
Of Course Harley wouldn't do anything without her puddin approving. But what better place than a concert for some mindless mayhem? (Or Doc Teeth and the Electronic Mayhem. Wait no that's muppets)
Of course before really getting in deep the Missfit with a heart will get word out to Jem and the rest but with the band making connections like this it is likely to be more than a bit of Synergy can bail them out of.
But it could be an interesting situation for a class of Heroes. After all Bruce Wayne might be interested in the Starlight House charity work but the way Batman has been presented I don't really see the band trusting him.
It has potential if you approach it right but this idea is a long way from a resolution with many strong attitudes in the way of the plot flow.
Oops typo clash of heroes. Sadly I am not talented enough to do more than think of odd ideas. I can never focus on them enough to come up with a fic. Hope someone does give writing the crossover a chance it could be fun.
So, in All-Star Crazy Steeve and Dick Grason age 12 we have Wonder Woman hating all men and that's why she is making out with them. Seriously, she makes out with Sups and then sais that she hates him, how does this works? At least there wasn't a gangbang including all members of JL (still I doubt anything can make this comic worse at this point). And why WW is a hard lesbian if she left Amason island because she fell in love with a man?
Don't get me wrong: I am not a feminist in any way, and I am still insulted by this portrait of WW. I doubt she'll start to murder and torture people because (I think) JL entered "We should do something! Shall we do something?" phase. And thanks God.
To anon that compared Miller's work to Gurren Lagann: are you out of your mind? GL doesn't use unnessesary violence and psychotic characters to look more mature. GL doesn't need such things to be awesome!
05:59 I have to admit that my first thoughts were that Wonder woman was about to swat the dog for soiling the carpet with her newspaper.
07:26 Amazons Attack, the sequel.
13:20 It appears that Crazy Steve is turning into Prometheus.
14:49 I think Superman somehow switched out with Superboy Prime.
16:49 Well Linkara when a man and a woman are written very badly.
20:20 The knives look a little Klingon honestly.
I must say that I'm glad to see story ATFW episodes again. I kind of only half watch the reviews these days just waiting for the next installment.
Just a few minor points:
"She's super strong already, so I imagine that comes with endurance to the elements." Granted, characters that have super strength often have super endurance, but I don't see how having the former necessarily indicates the latter. Superpowered muscles don't stop your skin from cooling down in the night air. And even an invulnerable hero whose skin is impermeable to damage on a molecular level could still radiate heat. Unless there's some magic or energy field in the skin that seals them off from the world, and I don't know enough about Wonder Woman's abilities to know exactly how they're supposed to work on a technical level.
"Good job, DC Reboot - YOU TOOK A STUPID IDEA FROM ALL-STAR BATMAN AND ROBIN AND MADE IT CANON." Stupid it may be, but I'm pretty sure the idea predates this comic by at least half a century. A quick Google brought up several old in-comic examples, and while none of them are canon, being what-ifs or alternate-dimensions or the goofiness inherent in issues of Superman's Girl Friend Lois Lane, they've had the idea on hand for quite a while. Now, if somewhere else they said, "We were inspired to go ahead and actually do it after reading Frank Miller", I missed that part because I wasn't looking for it.
After that maniacal grin of hers, I was seriously expecting the girl in the alley to pick up the knife and stab the guy instead of just kicking him in the crotch.
Wait, what happened to the credits roll? Which MST3K episode is the "Flag on the moon." bit from?
The Comic: Yeah... the man should just stick to his own stuff instead of writing for established characters.
Your Arc: ... Oh boy...
Fiery Little One
"Wait, what happened to the credits roll? Which MST3K episode is the "Flag on the moon." bit from?"
It's from the Beast of Yucca Flats, the third in the Coleman Francis trilogy. The movie is FULL of inane, nonsensical quotes like that.
Thanks for the daily dose of lunacy. I was worried I wouldn't get my minimum.
As I just started commenting on your board and I really want to ask this, and have been meaning to say so ever since your current story arc started, Is your Gunslinger character supposed to look like Yuber from Suikoden 3, or is that just a coincidence? I mean look:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091205235053/suikoden/images/0/00/S3-yuber.jpg
BAM! Add a gun, rather then the swords and you have your Gunslinger.
Don't get me wrong. I'll take any Suikoden I can get. It's a rare creature that has nearly gone extinct in the wild, but i must know if there's a connection.
Not a football fan, eh? So I take it you're not part of Viking World Order? ;)
This comic blows and every issue seems to be worse than the last one. I mean, it's bad enough that we had to deal with Batman IN NAME ONLY/Crazy Steve, but this? Dear God, Bonkers Betty reminds me of Amazons Attack! Not even the New 52 (with its Wonder Woman/Superman pairing) could ever hope to compete with the awfulness of this little trash.
Could Miller get even more insane than he already has? I'm still waiting for a beatdown on Holy Terror . . . and of course, the last text review of ASBAR.
Meanwhile, OMG, the mystery Gunman has shot Linkara in the back and taken Margaret! That's not good. What is he planning to do with all those weapons?
Personally I never really liked Superman X Wonder Woman. I get why the mainstream tried doing it. While never quite admitted out loud, many of Superman's powers and traits have often caused Wonder Woman to believe he was one of the gods the themyscirans worshiped reborn on Earth. Whilst Superman is equally awed by her own strength. However I preferred Superman x Lois and Batman X Wonder Woman because they both mirror each other. The respective partners that are mortal (Batman and Lois Respectively) while tough as nails, feel like they could never live up to the standards of their god like counterparts. However they realize in the end, if those two wanted to wanted people of their own strength they would have already chosen to be with those people and not their mortal lovers. It's a classic case of Destined Love, and Choose your own Destiny. How Miller did it though just made me hate the Wondersoup ship even more. Unlike regular soup Wondersoup is bad for your health.
Wow, just ignoring the crazy for a moment, nothing at all happened in this comic. Some people talked to each other, some other people talked to themselves, random lady gets rescued... that was it, really. This video advances a plot more in 30 seconds at the end, than the whole comic did.
That Wonder Woman cover is making my head hurt... what the hell is going on below the breast, its like a sharp triangle. Ribs don't work like that. And the torso is kind of out of proportion or something, the triange is where the breast should be, and the bottom of the breast is like... in the armpit? Its like he drew a body, then decided to add some more on top of it.
24:00 - *spits coffee* ... and I'm not usually a laugh-out-loud person, either.
Really excited about the storyline conclusion next week. I never got around to commenting on the 'State of the Wall' post, but I'm kind of hoping that it's split the parts over two different days regardless of time issues - knowing that this is the end of storylines for a while, it'd be good to stretch it out a little a bit longer.
Regarding Plastic Man:
I think a good deal of Frank Miller's take on Plastic Man comes from the "Obsidian Age" arc during the 90s and 00s. During that arc, Plastic Man was trapped unable to move for millennia until he was eventually recovered by Batman. Plastic Man admitted being aware of the passage of time and was driven slightly insane by the event. Batman later recruits the retired Plastic Man to help overthrow a former ally alien, Martian Manhunter.
During Dark Knight Strikes Again (Miller's work with Plastic Man before ASBAR), Plastic Man is trapped unable to move for years/decades until recovered by Batman, is aware of the passage of time, is driven slightly insane by the event, and is recruited by Batman to overthrow a former ally alien Superman.
Sound similar?
ASBAR in general seemed to port characters from Dark Knight Strikes Again and place them in its settings. The mad raving Batman who works by his own rules, the rage filled Wonder Woman who apparently 'lusts' for Superman, the impotent Superman who insists on following the rules yet is unable to handle Batman's way of operating. Plastic Man here is literally a port of his DKSA iteration just like those 3.
On top of all this, during the 80s and 90s (the era of writing all Frank Miller's works seems to reflect, for good or ill) Plastic Man was consistently friendly towards Batman. A number of Plastic Man's storylines involved the Bat in a positive light. especially during an era where many other characters were viewing Batman with growing concern or distrust.
Plus Plastic Man's insane ramblings and constant shapeshifting give Miller a free outlet to openly mock Superman and Wonder Woman on-panel. Sure that wasn't by chance...
The ease that the gunslinger had in knocking out Linkara reminds me very much of how easily the 7th Doctor was killed, and the idea of all the villain's reactions when they see how easy whoever suceeded made it look.
I would like to point out I don't read Superhero comics (I personally prefer things like 'Bone', 'Blacksad' and the like) but that doesn't mean I don't have affection for some of the characters. Wonder Woman in this comic hurt me on a personal level :'( I generally hate female characters (because no-one knows how to write them) but Wondie is some-one I REALLY like... so this... .yeah.
I also wanted to point out that comparing this to what you showed us in 'The Dark Knight Strikes Again', is it just me or Does Frank Miller use Superman as some kind of supreme embodiment of male sexuality? Oh sure, he makes Batman the ultimate superhero above every-one else, but he uses Superman as some sort of monument to all that is masculine about sex. He seems to reserve describing him in terms of the Greek/Roman gods, empahsises how he's super strong but not in the way he does with batman, through raw brutality, but rather that Superman exudes this just with his presence.
This.... is really troubling to me. If we take into consideration that in Miller's mind Wonder Woman is the Female id personified and Superman is that of male, then it basically boils down to everytime they kiss we're being sown 'The ultimate in sexual expression EVAR'.
Let's not even get into the fact that in Miller's mind ultimate female is 'Angry man-hating lesbian who needs some discipline' and ultimate male is 'insanely strong Adonis there to tame the wild hearts of them females'
Ugh... just... ew. ew ew ew. How about, you know, instead of this just writing about Superman and Wonder Woman Frank??! We don't NEED this look into your sexual repression!
Also, isn't Supes suppose to be kinda honest but akward with girls? I thought that's what made him charming, but maybe that's just my brain feeding me miss-information.
Alfred Punching things. No. Alfred is an ex-MI6 agent and is super classy. Physical force is NOT what he's about. Pure fail.
Maybe all the red in this comic is Jim Lee's rage at this writing filtering through onto the pages? Or whoever the colourist was.
We already Established Steve was insane in this story, but to see the OTHER superheroes also be out of their minds is... pain.
There is other thing I want to say. I wish for Joker to appear soon because being crasy is normal to him. Surrounded by crasy characters of ASBAR, Joker shall be the most normal and sane character of them all.
I await the day this burns like the rest of them. After this episode, i almost wanted to spend the money, and light it on fire outside my comic book store. It seriously disgusted me that he has done Batman greatly before and then we get this, and DKSA and... All hail Scott Snyder. Thats all i have to say, and it doesnt even have to be the reboot. Black Mirror is one of my favorite trades.
I'm pretty sure the 2 guns in the Batcave are Alfred's, since he is the only one of Batman's allies who's not sufficiently trained in the same way the heroes are.
I noticed something odd. Is it just me or did the use the same font for Crazy Steve's laughing as they use for the Joker?
If so, I wonder if that was the letterer and/or editor's little hint to the reader.
"I'm about 4 weeks behind on your show, and haven't had the chance to watch this episode yet. Were there any storyline segments in the Raver #1 review, the car wash of doom review, or the Happy Days review?"
Nope, Jakers--you're all set. :)
Speaking of the storyline--CURSE YOU, GUNSLINGER!!!! CURSE YOOOOOOU!!!!!!!
Is Pollo on Comicron One because he's downloading himself into his new body?
I hope that's the case.
Man, even wITH the shadows and highlights, Miller's cover looks flat flat. This almost qualifies as body horror O_o
I also have to wonder why far too many comic artists focus so much on breasts and asses that they have either forgotten how to draw the rest of the body, or never learned it in the first place. Not sure what's worse <_<
Wonder Woman in a trench coat? Is this some scrapped design idea from the 90's?
Hey, maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure the New 52 Wonder Woman/Superman pairup is being played as something that is NOT right with the universe/time and setting up for something in the future. They're not SUPPOSED to be together, and it's setting of alarms for certain people in the universe.
Thanks for your dissection of that ridiculous Wonder Woman cover. The next time that somebody tries to claim that superheroes are just as objectified in comics as superheroines, show them that cover and ask how many times that exact shot’s been taken of Batman, Superman, Green Lantern or any other male star of a comic cover. If Wolverine’s backside was the only thing displayed on the cover of a comic, it would look pretty dumb, wouldn’t it? So does this.
“Sperm bank?” Oh, Mr. Miller, you and your ‘hilarious’ depictions of straw feminists!
Bonkers Betty? Ha, maybe we should refer to the psychotic Wonder Woman of the (thankfully) failed TV pilot by that name, too.
Don’t forget the old, tired canard of “The lady doth protest too much. If she acts like she hates you, it’s because she really loves you deep down. She doesn’t really mean it when she tells you that she doesn’t like you. If she (or he, this can go both ways) calls you names and acts like a jerk, don’t worry. All you need to do is to interrupt her mid-rant by kissing her and she’ll be putty in your hands.” Thanks, Mr. Miller. It’s not like I haven’t seen this stupid and insulting scenario in a million bad romances or anything.
So, the woman being attacked stands up to one of the guys who were assaulting her…and it’s all because she now has a man to protect her. And once Crazy Steve is finished, she inexplicably morphs back into the timid, grateful waif who just mumbles, “Yes, sir,” and then randomly says, “I love you.” For no reason, other than to show how awesome Crazy Steve is and to play the part of the damsel in distress. Isn’t this the sort of thing that people have made fun of Lois Lane for?
“Black-eyed angel?” Are we sure that Stephenie Meyer didn’t write this comic book instead? What, with the endless childish, unrealistic, and repetitive dialogue? Actually, given the endless romanticizing of young men and immature attempts at tough-guy noir, I wouldn’t be surprised if Laurell K. Hamilton had a hand in this, too.
Now I’m reminded of Jack D. Ferraiolo’s middle-grade novel, “Sidekicks,” which was basically a send-up of superheroes. I honestly wonder if Phantom Justice (who is an obvious stand-in for Batman) was inspired by Crazy Steve.
"Is Pollo on Comicron One because he's downloading himself into his new body?"
Nope, unfortunately - I got two of Pollo's new bodies after we had filmed a good chunk of the storyline finale, so unfortunately we won't be able to formally introduce them on the show until afterwards.
MY GOD, THE BUTCHERY DONE TO THESE POOR CHARACTERS!
I mean I understand there needs to be some diversity, that writers can't write the same stuff over and over again, but when Batman is kidnapping kids and Alfred thinks of him with any hint of sexuality I think it's safe to say the line has been crossed. By a thousand miles.
My childhood just got r*ped.
Uhhh... Okay, rant over.
Really loved the story bit! This kind of ending is actually my favourite of shock endings. Can't wait for next week! :D
(And then of course for Marville... :D)
""I don't get it. The Magic Gun is SENTIENT. What makes the Gunslinger think she'll let him use her power?"
That's explained next week. "
Yeah he could be her brother...father... maybe he just knows the correct fingerings to get her to go off?
"I don't get it. The Magic Gun is SENTIENT. What makes the Gunslinger think she'll let him use her power?"
"Yeah he could be her brother...father... maybe he just knows the correct fingerings to get her to go off?"
There is also a possibility that the Gunslinger doesn't need to use magic guns in normal way. He can, assuming all magic guns was made the same way, harness their souls or something like that...
I don't know if you caught this before, but I thought it was very strange and worthy of a comment. I always thought that the weird butt / breast shot was strictly something used for women and then I found this Robocop cover (from IO9):
http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/8/2012/12/miller-robocop1_better.jpg
My father has a recipe for hot sauce that calls for yellow mustard, grape jelly, and some other stuff. So the grape jelly and mustard joke sounds tasty to me.
"I don't know if you caught this before, but I thought it was very strange and worthy of a comment. I always thought that the weird butt / breast shot was strictly something used for women and then I found this Robocop cover (from IO9):
http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/8/2012/12/miller-robocop1_better.jpg"
I'll bet this was originally going to be the cover for a female version of Robocop.
(Either that or a very clever potshot at female posing in covers.)
@JoeCat
"Plus Plastic Man's insane ramblings and constant shapeshifting give Miller a free outlet to openly mock Superman and Wonder Woman on-panel. Sure that wasn't by chance..."
I was wondering that myself, as one of the things no one in the comments have brought up so far is Green Lantern making the shape of a "wire hanger" when Wonder Women was talking. I really hope it was random and not what I think it means...
The oddest example of getting Superman and Wonder Woman together is DC Comics Presents #32 (April 1981). Cupid shows up on the Justice League satellite and hits on Wonder Woman. She rebuffs him, so he shoots arrows into her and Superman, causing them to fall in love with each other.
Shenannigans ensue, leading to a classic moment in which Wonder Woman calls Lois Lane a "man-stealing witch" and throws the reporter in front of a speeding truck.
In the end, Kal-el and Diana have to go on a quest to get the magical Mcguffin they need to break the spell, desperately trying to resist their overwhelming attraction to each other the whole time.
"Wonder Woman doesn't see herself above ordinary people."
Well, except for that one time. :D
Hey Lewis, what do you think of The Dark Knight Returns? do you class it as the last good Frank Miller comic before he went insane and what are your problems with it? (also, do you plan to review Holy Terror for us? :3)
Just thinking about Pollo and all the bodies he now has. Any chance for encrypted private networking allowing him to make use of all 3 at the same time no matter which of them he currently resides in?
I can't wait
I also named Superman "Psycho Phil" since last time I checked Superman wouldn't commit murder and destruction of private property (at least done that wasn't stopping crime). So I theorized that "Phil" was Superman's long lost identical twin brother that was sent to Earth with him ,but was picked up by a mercenary instead of the Kents, and is impersonating the Superman from the All-Star Universe in order to gain the trust of Bonkers Betty and the Justice Losers of America
I must admit that I still have a fair amount of respect for Miller, if only because he gave what I consider perhaps the best speech in the history of the comic book industry:
http://4thletter.net/2012/04/frank-miller-on-jack-kirby-creators-rights-1994/
That said, I do look forward to the day you finally take on Holy Terror.
Heck, I even heard of one feminazi who wanted a GENOCIDE OF ALL MEN! If I don't know what gets you commited to a mental hospital, I don't know what does
Btw, 60 years old is a perfectly fine age for someone to have such a ripped body, even more ripped than that in fact......however, it's not something you can achieve without at least a few years of building your body and I don't remember Alfred ever being....OH, WHAT AM I SAYING?!?
None of the heroes in this series is like the ones we know, why should I expect that Alfred would?
Now, now, Linkara. Be fair. It wasn't a whole year between issues.
It was 364 days.
Well, I never thought I'd see myself type this, especially after the Robocop/Terminator review you mentioned, but I think you're giving Frank Miller -way- too much credit.
I've read a lot of his work, from DKR to his early work on Daredevil, and while he demonstrated some understanding of how good planning and character motives are supposed to work, I never saw even a hint that he -ever- contemplated philosophical topics, or for that matter, sociology, beyond what can be seen on your average, biased TV station.
I see Frank Miller's current writing trend as being largely the output of a shallow, sexist person who repeats himself over and over, and the life experiences of said person. Frank Miller is that businessman on the street corner in the first panel, and Wonder Woman represents any woman with sense, when approached by said shallow, sexist person who repeats himself over and over. She tells him to get lost. His beliefs about what she does after that are just a reflection of his skewed understanding of why she said no.
I make this observation because really, a lot of the beliefs you mentioned don't seem like they would occur to somebody like Frank, and indeed, are perfectly compatible with acting civilly towards women, treating them with respect and dignity, and not drawing ugly pictures of them in porno poses. I myself hold at least two of the beliefs you mentioned, and it's never made the least difference in how I treat people.
I'll bet it makes a difference for Frank, though. It's sad, really. I wish he could turn things around and start writing -good- comics again, or at least not write horrible ones.
Crazy Steve, Bearded Idiot, and Bonkers Betty. World's Dumbest.
I think the problem with a lot of hardcore Bat-fans like Doug Monech and Miller is that they write everyone else to be a complete moron so Batman is glorified as our savior. Then again, this happens to any super-hardcore fan of a character, like Reginald Hudlin's awful Black Panther where everyone else is evil and T'Challa is a Marty Stu.
The whole comic just had me panning for the awesomeness and absurdity of Robocop vs. Terminator. Trust me when I say issues 2-4 increase the awesomeness a thousand fold, and it's a nice anthithesis to the racist, misogynistic Bat-worshipper Miller has become.
"Die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain..." I believe we can all say that Miller went beyond this step. He's the anti-christ of the DC universe. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!
"Yeah, but Kingdom Come was GOOD and the scene of them kissing wasn't about 'an alpha male calming down some uppity woman'."
First off I want to say I really dig the hell out of your critique in this scene of ASBAR, it's really well thought out.
But I think the new 52 relationship should be compared more to Kingdom Come than ASBAR. The relationship in Justice League actually flows a lot better than in this; the Justice League relationship, although I was initially dead set against it, is actually built on mutual respect, and having a relationship with someone you don't need to lie too.
I really have always liked Wonder Woman and Supes as a couple (though I consider Wonder Woman to be bi, and prefer seeing it set in a future setting where Lois is dead ala Kingdom Come), but Miller almost killed the paring for me in Dark Knight Strikes Again... and well just any time he writes it.
Is it wrong to be bizzarly fascinated with how frank see the world of dc?
It like experiencing someones crack fantasy.
You know I find it kind of weird that WW called some random guy a sperm bank. The reason being is last I heard that term was in Stanley Kubrick's version of the Shining. Jack referred to his wife Wendy as such a term and as rude and disgusting as that sounds, I kinda thought that's how most men back then referred to their wives. When hearing Wonder Woman say it to a guy all I thought was "Wait so that's supposed to be WW's spouse?" Before realizing that she meant it as an insult to guys rather than the way Jack said it. It was meant to be an insult too, but not in the same way.
By the way, the Shadow was mentioned in the review and Detective #27 was indeed based directly on the Shadow story "Partners in Peril." Even the gas chamber death trap was the same. Bill Finger was a great writer, but he lifted plots from other sources (including at least one other Shadow story)from time to time. Then again, so did Shakespeare.
There's a YouTube video giving a brief history of the pulp magazine version of the Shadow here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mek183lA3Dc
If you think ASBAR is insane, then you should absolutely check out Frank Miller's Elektra: Assassin with art by Bill Sienkiewicz. It's possible that Frank Miller's attitudes about women are personified by his creation Elektra. So, yeah you'll need lots of alcohol if you ever get to read it.
"Little note on Sentience for the gun. Just because she is aware and can control her abilities to an extent does not mean she can do anything about her situation."
She was cognizant enough of the beginning of Linkara's descent to withhold her power from him until he did his soul-searching and reformed. I'd be quite surprised if she wasn't cognizant of the fact that someone who is not Linkara (the Gunslinger) has her in his possession, and subsequently for her to withhold her power from the Gunslinger.
Though to be fair I also wouldn't be surprised if the Gunslinger has some apparatus to drain her power, because that's likely the only way he'd be able to use it, since we know that she CAN withhold her power if she so chooses.
You know that weird guy in the bar you just can't seem to get away from? The one that keeps telling you the problem is that people these days don't respect their elders and then goes on racist and misogynistic tirades?
That's what Frank Miller reminds me of.
I just finished watching the Dark Knight Returns part 1 and 2. Not as bad as these comics but Superman and Batman acted pretty homicidal.
I would be very interested to hear what you think about it, if you can ever find the time to watch them. (approx 3 hours)
Great review as always, I look forward to the next review of Marville(whenever you get to it) as much as linkara's liver dreads it :p
You know, this review is fine and all, but I'm getting sick of coming to this site and not seeing the lamp reviews that made you popular in the first place.
There's enough people doing comic reviews (well, not really), I need to know which lamp to buy!
I'm a long time watcher, first time writer. I was on reddit and I found something that could be charitably described as interesting. Could you please explain to me how the hell this happened? http://i.imgur.com/Jk5QSM8.jpg
"I'm a long time watcher, first time writer. I was on reddit and I found something that could be charitably described as interesting. Could you please explain to me how the hell this happened? http://i.imgur.com/Jk5QSM8.jpg"
I'm pretty sure it's a fake, to be honest.
An interesting study showing that people who can fly are much more inclined to help people.
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-01/what-happens-when-researchers-give-people-superpowers?src=twitter
Sorry if you have already seen this.
Dammit Linkara, I'm married. Stop making me fall in love with you by being so wonderful.
Leaving ASBAR aside, I think Superman and Wonder Woman together is an excellent idea. I've been a Superman fan my entire life, read the comics faithfully for well over a decade before I gave up and I was never sold on Lois as Superman's love interest.
Even Grant Morrison's answer is a hand wave. Lois: Why me? Superman: Some things I just can't help.
Ever since 1986 and especially since 2011 when they made the retarded move of making him a super social activist to "pay homage to his root and totally not preach to our readers, we swear" Superman has been plenty grounded without the need for a human mate. Boy is he grounded. Too grounded.
If he needs anything out of a woman its someone who reminds him of the awesome fantastic possibilities inherent in being Superman, who pushes him to be all he can be and who lives in that world with him. I have always thought Wonder Woman made more sense than this stupid human woman who can't see past the glasses and can't appreciate Superman for who he really is (or at least that was true for the first 5 or 6 decades, thats what Lois is. Lois is about not appreciating whats in front of her.)
LaughingHyena: I don't give Frank Miller enough credit now for it to not be random. In which case, I have to agree: EWWWWWWWWWWWW!
Also the Element of Suprise almost never fails
Yeah once I read "sultry siren", I immediately thought of The Spirit,TDKSA,and the general idea of sexualizing city all over again
I still trying to understand Wonder Woman and straw, maybe there's something to it but I dont get it.
Linkara, or anyone else , please explain it to me?
Also ,Alfred boxing a sandbag, I was egerly waiting to see something to show that, Unfortunately, its Miller
Given how people around here still seem to have not thought of an obvious Chekhov's Gun, I'll just blurt it out: MOBILE EMITTER.
"I still trying to understand Wonder Woman and straw, maybe there's something to it but I dont get it.
Linkara, or anyone else , please explain it to me?"
Have you ever heard of the term strawman before? ^_~
In defense of Miller.
(long one, sorry.)
I get why you hate that Frank Miller paints Wonder Woman as a stereotypical extremist feminist... but really her views are quite mild compared to a few actual women out there. You could make and argument that Miller portrays one actual version of what could possibly happen if a feminist woman was as powerful as WW and crazy. Allow me to explain: History shows that successful societies have had men almost exclusively in positions of authority, both in the state and families. This is because authority is the natural position of the male who is better equipped for it, rather than the female who has always found more success and peace in a supportive role. Feminism, however, teaches that women are just as capable at using authority but that men have historically held positions of power only because they are physically stronger than women and, therefore, have taken all the power for themselves by force blah, blah, blah, marriage is slavery and all women are victims of male oppression. In other words, a feminist mindset negates the male's most important and specific role in society, that of authority, and paints him as an adversary. Therefore, taking this mindset to its extreme, men are useless to society but for reproduction (see "sperm bank.") Kind of like with the AMAZON WOMEN SPOKEN OF IN ANCIENT GREEK WRITINGS! Now despite this worldview, feminist women are still women and are naturally attracted to men with authority, while repelled by pushovers (see "nice guy.") WW, being so powerful herself and, in this case, already prejudiced against men because of her feminist worldview, sees men as nothing but pathetic worms that urinate in inappropriate places. Except Superman, the only man she could ever be attracted to.
At least that is where I think Miller may be coming from. To me it looks like he is trying to re-imagine the characters themselves by making them psychologically unsound while keeping their superhuman abilities, and not to tell new stories using the existing formulas. Does this make an enjoyable reading experience? Well I don't think it can be called "stale" at least.
"History shows that successful societies have had men almost exclusively in positions of authority, both in the state and families. This is because authority is the natural position of the male who is better equipped for it, rather than the female who has always found more success and peace in a supportive role. Feminism, however, teaches that women are just as capable at using authority but that men have historically held positions of power only because they are physically stronger than women and, therefore, have taken all the power for themselves by force blah, blah, blah, marriage is slavery and all women are victims of male oppression. In other words, a feminist mindset negates the male's most important and specific role in society, that of authority, and paints him as an adversary. Therefore, taking this mindset to its extreme, men are useless to society but for reproduction (see "sperm bank.") Kind of like with the AMAZON WOMEN SPOKEN OF IN ANCIENT GREEK WRITINGS! Now despite this worldview, feminist women are still women and are naturally attracted to men with authority, while repelled by pushovers (see "nice guy.") WW, being so powerful herself and, in this case, already prejudiced against men because of her feminist worldview, sees men as nothing but pathetic worms that urinate in inappropriate places. Except Superman, the only man she could ever be attracted to."
EH, I sincerely hope you're trying to explain where you think MILLER'S psychology is coming from, because if these are views that YOU hold... well, I'm sorry, but this blog is not a place where you will be welcomed.
Men and women are not naturally inclined towards any position in society - society THRUSTS roles upon them, be it through bogus medicine of the past that claimed women were inferior because somehow their uterus interfered with their ability to make rational decisions to attempts to justify sexist attitudes through religious indoctrination or just various other examples throughout history.
Women, like men, are attracted to all sorts of people - not just men of authority, plus suggesting that women are ONLY attracted to men of authority suggests that lesbianism or bisexuality is not a possibility, and if you do hold the previously-held opinions about men and women's "place" in society, then you had better not fricking try to tell me that homosexuals are kidding themselves or are unnatural or some other absurd bullshit, because the moment you do will be the moment that this conversation ends and I declare that I don't know how the hell YOU were raised or what YOU believe in, but you need to SERIOUSLY reevaluate where the hell you stand.
Also: "nice guys?" Seriously? That bullcrap? I REALLY wish Nice Guys of OKCupid still existed. Here's a fact: so-called "nice guys" like that aren't "pushovers," they're disgusting examples of human beings, unable to see the possibility of platonic friendship with women and ONLY want to get into their pants. Protip: if you're a "nice guy," you don't HAVE to declare yourself a nice guy. You just ARE.
Part I (I can't post the whole thing in one part because it's too long):
I'll start out by saying that I, myself, do not identify as a feminist, since I believe that there is already sufficient equality between the genders and doing stupid things in the name of equality is the not the same thing as seeking it.
'"History shows that successful societies have had men almost exclusively in positions of authority, both in the state and families. This is because authority is the natural position of the male who is better equipped for it, rather than the female who has always found more success and peace in a supportive role.'
Okay, I don't completely disagree with this as a woman. Men do have a need for authority and control that women don't. However, they are not necessarily better-equipped, as they are on the whole more violent and less willing to agree to compromise. So in a society that does not rely on war, women are equally fit for command in general, if not more.
'Feminism, however, teaches'
What, is it a religion now?
'that women are just as capable at using authority but that men have historically held positions of power only because they are physically stronger than women and, therefore, have taken all the power for themselves by force'
Actually, physical strength is one of the only things that supports your idea. That's one of the things that actually does make men more suitable for authority position: physical intimidation and charisma. Basically, not Captain Picard.
'blah, blah, blah, marriage is slavery and all women are victims of male oppression.
In other words, a feminist mindset negates the male's most important and specific role in society, that of authority, and paints him as an adversary.'
Okay, I can almost agree with this, except that you're generalizing. Not all feminists are like this.
'Therefore, taking this mindset to its extreme, men are useless to society but for reproduction (see "sperm bank.")'
Uh, no. Feminists seek EQUALITY. They can just be stupid about it.
'Kind of like with the AMAZON WOMEN SPOKEN OF IN ANCIENT GREEK WRITINGS! Now despite this worldview, feminist women are still women and are naturally attracted to men with authority, while repelled by pushovers (see "nice guy.")'
And on what are you basing this...
'WW, being so powerful herself and, in this case, already prejudiced against men because of her feminist worldview, sees men as nothing but pathetic worms that urinate in inappropriate places. Except Superman, the only man she could ever be attracted to."'
Except that the Amazons consider men inferiors. They don't hate them. This is actually presented rather well in Rick Riordan's latest book.
Part II:
'EH,'
Do you have to begin everything you say with that? And why is the "H" capitalized? Are you copying Miller? Writing in trochaic meter? What?
'I sincerely hope you're trying to explain where you think MILLER'S psychology is coming from, because if these are views that YOU hold... well, I'm sorry, but this blog is not a place where you will be welcomed.'
Okay, fine, it's your blog.
'Men and women are not naturally inclined towards any position in society - society THRUSTS roles upon them, be it through bogus medicine of the past that claimed women were inferior because somehow their uterus interfered with their ability to make rational decisions'
Uh, actually, our hormones DO interfere with our ability to think at various points of the menstrual cycle (also the blinding, stabbing pain, for those who experience dysmenorrhea (such as myself)). But testosterone does the same.
'to attempts to justify sexist attitudes through religious indoctrination'
um, example?
'or just various other examples throughout history.'
You still haven't given me a single example I can take seriously.
'Women, like men, are attracted to all sorts of people'
Actually, to more sorts of people - men have a stronger sex drive, so they tend to go after attractive people more often, while women look for love and protection, at least in my experience.
'- not just men of authority,'
Yeah, but we do look for guys who can protect us.
'plus suggesting that women are ONLY attracted to men of authority suggests that lesbianism or bisexuality is not a possibility,'
Ohhh-kaayyy, not enough data to make a good enough point here.
'and if you do hold the previously-held opinions about men and women's "place" in society, then you had better not fricking try to tell me that homosexuals are kidding themselves or are unnatural or some other absurd bullshit,'
Do you HAVE to swear? I thought you weren't going to use the "more colorful four-letter words"!
'because the moment you do will be the moment that this conversation ends and I declare that I don't know how the hell YOU were raised or what YOU believe in, but you need to SERIOUSLY reevaluate where the hell you stand.'
Again, enough with the swearing. Though I guess it does help get your point across, and it is a good point, if mainly emotional.
'Also: "nice guys?" Seriously? That bullcrap?'
ENOUGH WITH THE SWEARING!!!
'I REALLY wish Nice Guys of OKCupid still existed.'
Huh? who're they?
'Here's a fact: so-called "nice guys" like that aren't "pushovers," they're disgusting examples of human beings, unable to see the possibility of platonic friendship with women and ONLY want to get into their pants.'
Okay, still no idea what you're talking about.
'Protip: if you're a "nice guy," you don't HAVE to declare yourself a nice guy. You just ARE.'
I think your employer actually DID declare himself a "Mr. Nice Guy" in one of his commentaries, so you're on shaky ground there.
Mr. Lovhaug, please reply to me, as you're one of the few modern feminists who usually bothers to get others' perspectives on the issue and present them before ranting. Also, I'm working on this whole "politeness" thing and I need to know if I succeeded this time around.
@your future rebbetzin:
It is 4:30 in the morning and I am desperately trying to get work done, but I feel compelled to respond to some of your points quickly and I sadly don't have the time to go into everything. I trust any other readers who are still reading after 177 comments (I doubt there are many, though) will be more helpful than I am at this time of "day."
"'EH,'
Do you have to begin everything you say with that? And why is the "H" capitalized? Are you copying Miller? Writing in trochaic meter? What?"
Look at their post. That is their name that they went with to post.
"Uh, actually, our hormones DO interfere with our ability to think at various points of the menstrual cycle (also the blinding, stabbing pain, for those who experience dysmenorrhea (such as myself)). But testosterone does the same."
Fair enough, but it does not make women INFERIOR to men, it's simply a biological process that occurs with women and it doesn't affect ALL women the same way, nor does it somehow dictate "natural roles" in society.
There is no "natural role" of ANYTHING in society because SOCIETY IS NOT NATURAL. Society is a CONSTRUCT that people created to better function with each other, because natural instincts and desire conflict with human morality and our capacity to reason and go BEYOND nature. We ascribe the word "society" to other beings because it's the best way to describe behavior demonstrated in animal life that does possess enough intelligence to form their own versions of it, primitive though they may be.
"'to attempts to justify sexist attitudes through religious indoctrination'
um, example?"
Sharia Law concerning women and their interactions with men, Mormon law concerning husbands and wives, Christian denominations that dictate who may hold certain positions within the church, and if you want the Bible itself, there are plenty of bits about women as property, uncleanliness of women, or the agency of women. If you want specific quotes, you'll have to catch me at another time, but they exist and they are there.
"'or just various other examples throughout history.'
You still haven't given me a single example I can take seriously."
Periods in history where women were not allowed to vote, were considered property, had no legal rights over children, abortion, or even getting punished for being raped. Then again, some of those are still happening today, so I really shouldn't HAVE to point out examples because it's common friggin' knowledge that history has not been kind to women.
"Actually, to more sorts of people - men have a stronger sex drive, so they tend to go after attractive people more often, while women look for love and protection, at least in my experience."
You're not getting what I'm saying - what is attractive TO YOU may not be the same thing that is attractive TO ME or another guy or to any other women. Some women find bald men attractive. Some women find kindness attractive. Some women find soft eyes attractive. Some women find facial hair attractive. Are you getting what I'm saying here? There is no set biological desire of what ALL MEN or ALL WOMEN want in a mate, if they WANT a mate. There are just as many men and women who describe themselves as asexual and don't really have any desire to pursue romance.
People are different all over, is what I'm saying.
"Do you HAVE to swear? I thought you weren't going to use the "more colorful four-letter words"!
'because the moment you do will be the moment that this conversation ends and I declare that I don't know how the hell YOU were raised or what YOU believe in, but you need to SERIOUSLY reevaluate where the hell you stand.'
Again, enough with the swearing. Though I guess it does help get your point across, and it is a good point, if mainly emotional.
'Also: "nice guys?" Seriously? That bullcrap?'
ENOUGH WITH THE SWEARING!!!"
One - bullcrap is not swearing. Two - that's language on the SHOW, not the blog. If I want to get my point across stronger, I'll use the strongest possible language to get the point across.
"'I REALLY wish Nice Guys of OKCupid still existed.'
Huh? who're they?"
This also refers to the next question where you're wondering what I'm referring to. There is a growing amount of terms being thrown around more and more, including "friend zone" and "nice guys." The "friend zone" refers to a male who has romantic feelings towards a woman and rarely, if ever, admit that they have those feelings. However, when they do and the women does not reciprocate, they refer to it as being put "in the friend zone" or "friendzoned."
However, the term is worse than that, because in their eyes, they feel they are OWED a romantic and even sexual response in kind for being a friend to them, for listening to them, and otherwise just being a decent human being. In other words: they are not actually a friend to the woman, they are only interested in getting into their pants and when they do not get what they want, they will respond angrily that they are owed it and that the woman is a bitch or other such unkind words for leading them along or just not reciprocating.
"Nice Guys of OKCupid" was a tumblr that looked through the dating website OKCupid and found egregious examples of self-described "nice guys" who, in turn, also posted details about themselves that proved how "nice" they really were - usually in the area of wanting to control women, thinking women owed them things, or just used their profiles to complain about how women had friendzoned them before even though they were SUCH "nice guys."
"Also, I'm working on this whole "politeness" thing and I need to know if I succeeded this time around."
You're doing pretty well, though there were places where you were upset over how I responded on my own blog. And if you think I'm being too aggressive... well, it's hard not to be angry at things that I find stupid or offensive.
Oh, wow, thanks for replying. I feel truly honored.
I don't see how the laws of tum'ah in any way demean or insult women, though, speaking as someone who is fairly learned in Biblical and Talmudic law (although admittedly this is the main area where my knowledge is lacking), and Shari'a and Mormon law likewise are a different perception of equality, rather than oppression. I am a women who voluntarily surrenders to the fact that I want to raise children, and since I intend to be with them while I am doing so, I am unsuited for a position of authority (also I'm a narcissist and I can be something of an idiot).
While society is not natural, the roles that develop in society for various groups and individuals are based on a perception of their abilities, as well as the facts of their performance. So the fact that society has ascribed certain roles to men and others to women may in fact mean something. What is means is naturally subject to debate.
Of course there is no one type that either gender regards as attractive. I was merely indicating a general trend I have noticed.
About the whole "swearing" thing:
1. I am from a background where any explicit mention of a bodily function in a non-scientific or educational setting is considered "swearing" or "cursing", especially when used that way. It's considered crude language and is generally forbidden.
2. Okay, that makes sense. Sorry. It is your blog, and you can post whatever you please. I just thought your reasons would equally apply everywhere.
"women were not allowed to vote, were considered property, had no legal rights over children, abortion, or even getting punished for being raped"
Okay, in order:
1. Yes, and that was (often) a problem.
2. Yes, that's a problem also.
3. Actually, in Jewish society, that was an advantage, since after a divorce the woman would have a steady source of income in caring for her children (she had neither rights nor responsibilities towards them).
4. Yes, and that was terrible. Which punishment are you talking about, though? Shame killings?
Wow, that's disturbing, although when doing research I did feel it was slightly biased (from my point of view, a person of either gender is required to sleep with another in exactly two circumstances: marriage and death threat).
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! I wasn't criticizing you for being aggressive at all, by the way, just for using crude language and lacking strong evidence.
"You're not getting what I'm saying - what is attractive TO YOU may not be the same thing that is attractive TO ME or another guy or to any other women. Some women find bald men attractive. Some women find kindness attractive. Some women find soft eyes attractive. Some women find facial hair attractive."
And for the record, at the present moment, I, a woman, am finding you, Mr. Lovhaug, incredibly attractive.
Okay Linkara, so technically from what I got is , Wonderman doesn not agree with Superman , but wants to do the same thing as Superman except kill Steve
Yeah, thats makes no sense whatsoever, even if you swap any other female heroine. Thanks
Linkara, if you are still reading the comments here I have a tumblr you may not have heard of that shows the ridiculous angles and poses of female characters in comics and mocks them in a quite humorous way.
It's called:
http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/
I hope you get a kick out of it as much as I have!
PS: If this has been reposted by me a few times my sincerest apologies. I'm having trouble with the captcha.
actually linkara i think you Should worry about the other medias from comics and stuff. they have the potential to totally alter the comic books they come from exponentially. though mostly i have seen rather good things, the creation of harley quin and the rebirth of mister freeze from two cent villain to an incredibly intriguing and tragic character thanks to the animated series.
however, bad thigns people like may infect the comic book world. what if something happens in ultiamte marvel and it is so popular there they decide to move it to the main marvel universe?
what if it is something people like that is a bad thing. if people can like twilight, they can like anything inane.
hell last i heard marvel is making a lot of rip offs. the character jubilee is a vampire for some reason, and we know what twilight is supposedly about. the hunger games movie becomes popular, and thus the abomination that is avengers arena, which embodies soooooooo many of those bad story mechanics you rage about in your reviews, is born. and that thing seems to glorify itself by comparing itself to far better things than itself.
god i complain about avengers arena around your stuff alot. it just seems to have so many of the bad things about comics are in it, in the first god damned chapter too. issue 1 is a bombardment of the most horrid tropes and plot mechanics to be imagined by man. oh you know you got somethign good when not only is the first guy to die black, or at least of a non white ethnic group, but the author did not even fucking realize the race of the character when they did it.
sorry if it keep bringing it up, but it..... it just so inane.
as said, what happens in one variation of the comic media, be it an adaptation into animated or live action motion picture or another series of comics, or even totally unrelated forms of media, can alter the main comic media for good or ill.
Actually, in Old Testament law, a man who commits a rape is put to death. If the woman was innocent, there's no punishment.
What confuses some people at times is a passage from Dueteronomy 22, which talks about a rape happening "in the field" or without witnesses. In this situation, the man could claim it was consensual. Since Jewish law required two or three reliable witnesses to convict a person of a crime (remember that there was no such things as forensics), then the rape couldn't be legally proved.
If the woman was married and claimed it was rape, then she would be presumed innocent of any wrongdoing. The guy would be put to death, since he's guilty of either rape or adultery--either of which carried the death penalty. Remember that God was dealing with a society that had no respect for women and wives were often passed from one man to another at the man's whim, so the laws regarding the sanctity of marriage were strict to stop this from happening.
What if the woman was unmarried and rape couldn't be proved? In this case, the man--because at the very least he took her virginity--would be charged the price of a bride. This would be an awful lot of money or property. But--as spelled out in Exodus 22--the father of the bride does NOT have to give his daughter in marriage to the guy. Charging him the bridal fee is simply a way to punish him for (at the very least) seducing an unmarried girl and--if rape couldn't be legally proved--at least get some sort of retribution for his actions.
Reply to your future rebbetzin
I respect your opinion and your decision to remain in the home. It is an important role and one that deserves a lot of honor.
However, please do not presume to speak for all women. I am a woman who would be very unsuited to being a housewife, but who could hold a position of authority. Our roles in society are the ones that men thrust upon us (and each other) due to being historically unwilling to admit that women have good ideas too.
The property rights of women in history have been terribly. While in some societies the woman might get a good settlement in a divorce, oftentimes, they got nothing, not even their own children. And women being punished for rape does not just refer to shame killings. It can refer to the girls today who are asked what they were wearing at the time of their attacks and being accused of "wanting it" because she was wearing revealing clothes.
Again, I respect your views and your religion, but these opinions do not apply to every woman, and the negative portrayal of the women they do not apply to is detrimental and belittling.
"What is the third baseman's name?"
No, Watt's the second baseman's name."
"I'm not asking you who's on second!"
"Hoo's on first."
"I dunno."
"Third base!"
Weird, completely unrelated question that I can't ask on Twitter because I have no Twitter account: Have you ever seen any Kamen Rider? If so, what did you think of it?
Part 1
Hello again Linkara, I understand this is your blog and you may censor dissenting opinions as you will, but I hope you will allow me to defend my position.
Your idea that the different gender roles are somehow "forced on people by society" completely ignores the obvious differences between men and women. Despite what you may believe, men and women are DIFFERENT. Your idea that people like me believe that women are somehow inferior in their humanity because they have a different role distinct from men is absolutely ridiculous. The idea that man's natural authoritative nature and woman's natural submissive nature means the man is "better" is absurd. (and, btw, NOT what the Bible teaches. AT ALL.) Now that that stupid strawman is out of the way, let me explain why I believe that feminism (as I define it) is, in fact, harmful to women, men and children.
Feminism (or the most influential voices in the feminist movement) has, since the 1970s, pressured women into joining the workforce, taking on roles that men are biologically more suited for while belittling the roles that women are biologically more suited for. Thus, important roles in society that only women can fulfill are now oftentimes neglected as women, with the idea that traditionally male roles are somehow superior to traditionally female roles, now compete against men. Feminism gives empty promises to women, telling them that they need to compete with men to prove that they are "equal" and that this action will bring them happiness, though in reality it mostly brings stress and bitterness. Proper exercising of gender roles--that is, male authority being used properly (not in a abusive way) by the husband and VOLUNTARILY submitted to by the wife as his help meet--brings fulfillment of the man's needs (mainly sexual, love) as well as the woman's (mainly a sense security, less stress, children, love) and unity to the family. The feminist idea of "equal partnership" marriage that is so popular today, with both the man and woman trying to share (aka fighting over) authority, brings only chaos and the now >50% divorce rate here in the US. Of course this, along with all of the other male/female incompatibility we are now facing, has lead to an epidemic of fatherlessness, the effects of which have been laid out here:
http://thefatherlessgeneration.wordpress. com/statistics/
For a "Christian" you sure do hate the Bible. You claim to be a "Christian" and yet you would reject the words of Peter, one of Christ's 12 APOSTLES that he taught directly for 3 years, and personally sent out to teach others, when he writes to the Church: "...wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3 Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.
7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." --1 Peter 3:1-7 ESV. I don't know what "christ" you serve, but it is certainly not the One in the Bible.
continued...
Part 2
The "nice guys" thing. Women are not the perfect goddesses you seem to believe they are and many-a-woman will take advantage of a man's obvious affection for her and lead him on so long as she gets what she wants. Many times, the "friend zone" is where women keep the unfortunate men who, by their COMPLETELY NATURAL desire for a sexual relationship with her, do what society claims attracts a woman(comforting her, helping her, encouraging her, etc. in other words "if you wanna be my lover, first you gotta be my friend") yet does not have the confidence to confess his feelings. Most of the time the woman figures out pretty quickly what his intentions are, but his passive behavior is a turn-off. Many times instead of simply rejecting him, the woman strings him along so she can keep getting what he is giving her. When the truth finally comes out, "OMG! What a perverted male! How dare you want to have sex with me and not just be my friend! Friendship is magic, you sicko!" blaming the man instead of taking responsibility for her own behavior (not an uncommon practice among many women in this society.)
This is not to say that men have not failed often throughout history in proper conduct towards women, or children or other men for that matter. We are flawed sinners after all, the same as women, equally in need of forgiveness. But that does not negate the importance of male authority in society generally and specifically in the roles of father and husband.
I thank you in advance for allowing me to express my views on your blog even though you probably think they are "backward" or "hateful" or something.
your future rebbetzin:
Thanks for kindasorta backing me up a little there. :)
Oh Crap!! The Gunslinger has the Magic Gun!. I'm looking forward to Monday's two parter review. Yeah,while my Wonderwoman encounters of her characterization are limited to the Justice League shows and what I've seen here, even I now know that Wonder Woman was written poorly in this comic.Here's my two cents about Wonder Woman. She isn't a feminazi Man hater and that portrayal is OOC characterization. However, with that being said; I don't wish to be included in the talk that is going on because I'm not that type of chick that argues on the internet.
Linkara, or lewis, or whatever your gonna call yourself, YOU ARE A FOOL!!!!!!!!!! You clearly could hev had the chance to have a "Frank Miller Month"! But instead up blew it big time. You could have done it and I Sincerely Appreiciate you Reviewing All-Star Batman and Robin, a comic I really like. But you also could have used the joke I gave you:
"So Batman and Robocop walk in to a Restuaraunt.........."
How so dissappointing, now back to the Frank Miller aspect of his writing. He does some REALLY good work in comics. I freely admit I love his comics. What the Hell are you Bitching about anyway? All-star Batman and Robin is an Amazing Comic Book. Now linkara, I admit The Dark Knight Strikes Again completely and utterly sucked, and you clearly had every right to bash on it........... EXCEPT THE 9\11 PART!!!!! We as America, need to stop hating on a peciecs of Literature and Entertainment just beacause they have 9/11 imagery. Chill out guys, its not that serious. I acknowledge that MILLOiNS of people died and I feel very sad about that. But its been a long time and now we have a holiday to celebrate ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DIED. Now that's just Not cool. Why should we have that date crammed down our throats every year? Yes, for the people who lost their families and stuff but still we need to not take it so seriously. I'm not trying to be offensive or anything and I'm preety sure that this comment is going to get bashed preety quickly too, So bash away my friends!
Oh and Lewis? FUCK YOU FOR NOT SEEING ROBOCOP 2 OR ROBOCOP 3!!!!!!
Dude really PREPARE FOR EXTREME BASHING!!
If you don't mind, I'd like to put my perspective as a woman into this conversation again.
“Your idea that the different gender roles are somehow "forced on people by society" completely ignores the obvious differences between men and women.” What obvious differences? Besides reproductive organs, that is?
“The idea that man's natural authoritative nature and woman's natural submissive nature means the man is "better" is absurd.” That is not true. I have known many men and women in my life, and I have known just as many authoritative women and submissive men. The reason women are allegedly more “submissive” is because that is what men want us to be. I am not a submissive woman. I have the same decision-making capabilities as any man, and any man who wants me to submit to him is not going to be satisfied.
“Feminism (or the most influential voices in the feminist movement) has, since the 1970s, pressured women into joining the workforce, taking on roles that men are biologically more suited for while belittling the roles that women are biologically more suited for.” Like what? I didn’t know you needed a set of testicles to study law, practice medicine, or sell refrigerators.
“Thus, important roles in society that only women can fulfill are now oftentimes neglected as women, with the idea that traditionally male roles are somehow superior to traditionally female roles, now compete against men.” Not true at all. Most feminists acknowledge that home building is a very important role in society. However, some women are not suited to homebuilding, and I have known men who are. My father, for example, did most of the cooking and looked after us kids just as much as my mother did.
“Feminism gives empty promises to women, telling them that they need to compete with men to prove that they are "equal" and that this action will bring them happiness, though in reality it mostly brings stress and bitterness.” Again, not true. Women do not enter the workforce to compete with men to prove they are equal. We enter the workforce because we want to be financially independent and because we feel we have something to offer. My goal as a woman is not to prove I am equal to a man, but to prove that I am a good writer and reporter in my own right.
“Proper exercising of gender roles--that is, male authority being used properly (not in a abusive way) by the husband and VOLUNTARILY submitted to by the wife as his help meet--brings fulfillment of the man's needs (mainly sexual, love) as well as the woman's (mainly a sense security, less stress, children, love) and unity to the family.” I do not believe for a minute that a man’s need is limited to sex and love, nor do I believe that a woman’s needs are limited to being taken care of while having babies. Most of the women I know would not be satisfied to play house for the rest of their lives. We have more to offer than our uteruses, and the idea that work brings unnatural stress to women is awful, when I feel that child-bearing would be harder and more stressful than any professional situation.
“For a "Christian" you sure do hate the Bible. You claim to be a "Christian" and yet you would reject the words of Peter, one of Christ's 12 APOSTLES that he taught directly for 3 years, and personally sent out to teach others, when he writes to the Church: "...wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3 Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.
7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered." --1 Peter 3:1-7 ESV. I don't know what "christ" you serve, but it is certainly not the One in the Bible.” As an admittedly overeducated non-Christian, I probably shouldn’t touch this, except to say that my understanding of the teachings of Christ was very different from what the apostles later said. All I can say is that the Bible was written over 2,000 years ago and the times have changed. Or do you still not cut your hair or wear mixed fabrics?
“The "nice guys" thing. Women are not the perfect goddesses you seem to believe they are and many-a-woman will take advantage of a man's obvious affection for her and lead him on so long as she gets what she wants. Many times, the "friend zone" is where women keep the unfortunate men who, by their COMPLETELY NATURAL desire for a sexual relationship with her, do what society claims attracts a woman(comforting her, helping her, encouraging her, etc. in other words "if you wanna be my lover, first you gotta be my friend") yet does not have the confidence to confess his feelings. Most of the time the woman figures out pretty quickly what his intentions are, but his passive behavior is a turn-off.” Here’s an idea: If men are really biologically strong and authoritative, they would ignore what society says women want and just say “I want to have a romantic/sexual relationship with you.” That would probably actually get better results. So really, if a guy goes through all those hoops without confessing and then gets rejected… well, I won’t say it’s his fault, per se, but he clearly should have thought it out more.
“Many times instead of simply rejecting him, the woman strings him along so she can keep getting what he is giving her. When the truth finally comes out, "OMG! What a perverted male! How dare you want to have sex with me and not just be my friend! Friendship is magic, you sicko!" blaming the man instead of taking responsibility for her own behavior (not an uncommon practice among many women in this society.)” I feel like there’s a level of personal experience in this paragraph, so I’m sorry for that, but really, most of the women I know leave it with a simple rejection. Granted, normally the male asks if she wants to have a relationship, not “when can we have sex,” so the way he words it might have something to do with it. It is actually not a common practice among women to string along guys in the friend zone because we’re selfish. If a guy we consider a friend offers to do things for us, we accept his help, but we don’t necessarily expect there to be strings attached. And if his entire goal is to have sex with her and move on, that’s not good, either.
“This is not to say that men have not failed often throughout history in proper conduct towards women, or children or other men for that matter. We are flawed sinners after all, the same as women, equally in need of forgiveness. But that does not negate the importance of male authority in society generally and specifically in the roles of father and husband.” Male authority exists because men gave it to themselves. Husbands and fathers are great. I have a deep appreciation for my father, and I hope I one day find a good husband and possible father for my own children. But if I do get married, I cannot and will not submit to the whims of a man. I will not keep house and bear children for the best years of my adult life. I have more to contribute to this world as a woman, a writer, and a human being in general, and the idea that my biology makes me unfit to do more than shove out babies is repulsive to me.
Thank you for your time. I know I probably won’t dissuade you from your viewpoint, but I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
""I don't get it. The Magic Gun is SENTIENT. What makes the Gunslinger think she'll let him use her power?"
That's explained next week."
But I wanna know what happens now! Damn your cliffhangers!
LEEEWWIIIIIS!!
*zoom out of the planet*
To Julie Paulson:
Um... you do realize Christians basically rejected their Jewish roots, so they don't follow the mitzvos? Jews don't wear shaatnez or shave with razors. Christians do.
And while you may not require a male body to practice law or medicine, you certainly do require one to be a firefighter, and in that way encouraging women to do jobs for which they are physically unsuited can kill people.
And when I get married, I will celebrate the unique ability of my body to bear children and carry on the line, and likely have many children. I love kids. I've always wanted them. And yes, I will manage to keep house AND work a part-time job, as most Jewish housewives do.
I've known submissive men and authoritative women also. That doesn't mean they aren't a minority. Most women I know wouldn't be happy thought of as second-class citizens, but WOULD be happy as mothers of several children and responsible matriarchs.
To EH:
I do agree with you on most of your points, except of course the Christian part, which I'm forbidden to comment on, so yeah.
But women... I really doubt we string men along on purpose most of the time. Most just genuinely do not want sex as much most of the time, and don't understand that men do. I don't know which gender is failing there: men in failing to realize that friendship is an option, or women in failing to recognize when men don't really want friendship.
Oh, and you're welcome. I don't exactly agree with you about some of your points, but then I do agree with you about some of them. Check out my first blog posts. I'd be interested in your perspective.
@ your future rebbetzin:
I don't care if you are a woman or not, or whatever background you come from. Your views are absolutely vile and you paint with a brush broader than planet earth.
First off, women whom are fire fighters or soldiers pass the same tests as the men do, often having to do -more- training than the men, more bootcamp to prove themselves but they -earn- it. Its backwards twits like you that hold completely capable women back because you think -your- experiences are comparable to all of humanity. That your friends are -everybody-.
Your argument falls completely apart when you actually do some thinking and researching and find that NO, there are actually VERY FEW chemical differences between the genders and that the majority of what we experience day by day is cultural. When you actually do RESEARCH with FACTS you'll find that SCIENTIFICALLY and FACTUALLY your idea of PMS and menstrual hormones changing personality is a CULTURAL side effect and has almost no bearing on reality; its twits like you that perpetuate that horrid stereotype based on your own personal willful ignorance.
The problem with people like YOU is that you are completely unable to step outside of your own cultural shoes and see there is more to the world than your 10 square miles of the earth.
From one woman to another, you disgust me as a human being on a personal level. Feminists aren't the problem with society and the world; people like -you- are. Congrats, you feel ok with submitting to religious law. Fine. LEAVE THE REST OF US OUT OF IT.
I have women whom are over 6 foot in my family. Women whom are military, religious, house wives, mothers. Petite women, muscular women, engineers, lawyers. Your backwards, insulting, misogynistic views are frankly appalling and INSULTING to every women who FOUGHT and DIED before you to give the right to vote, and even freely walk out of your own damn house without your husband beating the hell out of you.
Want a wake up call? Look up the origin of the "rule of thumb" and kindly go look in a mirror and thank the women in your family and around the world who decided not to be as catastrophically dumb as you and make sure you don't get regularly beaten with a wooden rod.
People like you make me sick. Its no surprise Lewis doesn't want this kind of trash on his blog.
and I'm not even going to justify 'EH' with a response. His IP should just be banned from the blog period, because he's literally not worth the air it takes to keep his heart beating.
The fact you both need "examples" of how your sick twisted religions have not hurt women in history literally, LITERALLY makes me queasy.
If this was any other blog I'd be using much more foul language to describe the kind of vile human you are, but I'll respect Lewis wishes because unlike you he was actually worth the effort society put into him.
Good day ma'am. Go swallow a bag of nails.
~Sincerely,
A stronger woman than you.
@ Lewis Lovhang
Lewis, you were completely justified being "Aggressive". There is being a jerk, and then there is taking a stand for what is simply just the right thing to do.
Good on you for calling out EH and asking him kindly to leave, and while I respect you responded to rebbetzin respectfully but... she can say shes trying to be nice, but she was also being a twisted misogynist.
Its a kind smile while she tells you women are inferior. No matter how bright the smile, shes being a horrid human being.
Shes in the same category as EH, shes just doing it with a smile. Which, in my opinion, makes her all the worse.
At the very least, a thousand thank yous for continuing to stand up and support women in the face of people who'd prefer women sit down and make kids all day and get beaten with rods and sold as property.
Just, thank you, because people like her and EH are enough to make me literally on edge and sick for the rest of the day. You're proof there is still a little good left in the world, even in the face of what is just plain ugly and evil.
Never stop calling people on this. Even if its just passive like her opinion, and not aggressive like EH's, people like her contribute to rape culture and the casual damning of LGBT and women everywhere. EH is a direct problem, but she and her ilk are the sad and pathetic reflection of society at large, and that is much more dangerous.
For the sake of actual good people, lets hope her kids turn out as a better humans than she did.
Thank you.
Peace.
@Alex - Alex, the kind words are appreciated and they make me blush, but let's still try to be civil around here and not insult other commenters.
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