Atop the Fourth Wall: Wonder Woman (2011)

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Wonder Woman (2011)

Nash, Film Brain, and Linkara look at the unaired Wonder Woman pilot from 2011. Is it as bad as people said?

YES. ‎

176 comments:

Kschenke said...: On the website I write for, the Wonder Woman script and the show's costume are the subjects that just refuse to die, even a year later: http://cliqueclack.com/tv/2011/05/13/cliqueclack-woman-trilogy-part-3-series/; January 15, 2012 at 11:12 PM
Ken Godberson said...: http://youtu.be/6uEJRmoIDVc?t=1m33s

Me watching the clips of the pilot.; January 15, 2012 at 11:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Well... I can see why this died as quickly as it did just based off of the few clips you guys showed off.

I can't help but think they should have gotten Lynda Carter for Liz Hurley's role though. if only for the sake of having them butting heads whenever they got the chance, assuming this had gotten past the pilot that is.

Best part of the review? I'm torn, it's either the bit with the hammer, or the bit with the Tommy gun.

Fiery Little One; January 15, 2012 at 11:56 PM
Anonymous said...: You know... the funny thing about this, is that it would be a GREAT episode, if this was an intentional take on the alternate universe "Justice Lord" Wonder Woman from the Justice League tv series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_Lords

Although.... it isn't. It's trying to be about a Wonder Woman from "our" world. So it sucks.; January 15, 2012 at 11:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Pants to be darkened!

Is the fuuuuu~ the closest the Linkara character has come to that word?; January 16, 2012 at 12:14 AM
Jesse said...: Oh God! This is great. Linkara please do another crossover with Nash and Film Brian when you 3 can.; January 16, 2012 at 12:18 AM
DrZulu2010 said...: Now, we know why DC never wanted to make a movie/tv show with a female hero. First Catwoman, now this.

And now I heard Linkara swearing 1 1/2 times. My world has crumbled.; January 16, 2012 at 12:23 AM
areoborg said...: Linkara playing the role of villain in this piece? That doesn't surprise me at all.

I used to think that Linkara was the only member of Channel Awesome who I could meet and not wind up chained to a radiator in his basement.

After meeting him at Youmakon and spending the last few months chained to a radiator in his basement, I found out that I was sorely mistaken.

Now, you might be saying to yourself, "wait a minute, haven't I been seeing this guy posting comments on this very blog?" Well yes, that's true. Truth be told, a certain DeLorion played a key role in my dramatic escape, which involved kung-fu fighting, explosions, and some nudity. However, I won't bore you with the details here.

On an unrelated note, excellent review of this horrid horrid waste of film.

And finally, PANTS TO BE DARKENED!; January 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM
vadth_the_bluelock said...: Well, if I ever have a reason to think "What would a Wonder Woman comic written by Frank Miller be like?" I have my answer.; January 16, 2012 at 12:31 AM
Phantom Roxas said...: This trilogy has been great, and I'm glad that this conclusion brought all three of you together.

Favorite moments:
• The hammer scene.
• Nash's SOPA joke.
• "LEAVE WONDER WOMAN ALONE!"
• The entire debate with the jet.
• "PANTS TO BE DARKENED!"

It was actually surprising to hear you casually say "fucking", but I didn't mind it.

All in all, this was a really good crossover. JesuOtaku's cameos were funny too.

A shame that you so often have to deal with Wonder Woman being supposedly hard to portray properly.; January 16, 2012 at 12:52 AM
BooRat said...: OH MY CTHULHU!!! I'VE BEEN WAITING FOREVER FOR THIS CROSSOVER REVIEW!!!
This is the closest I've come to actually seeing this un-aired pilot! I've seen many reviews but none that used footage of the actually show to highlight the badness!
Wow, that urine colored filter really made that opening stolen right from Boys in the Hood look more like a bad comedy than a dramatic scene!
I feel even more bad for the guy she choked slammed to the ground stabbed int he neck with a needle because he looked like a Cancer patent!
Why was it called the Lasso of Truth when it didn't seem to have any power outside the basic ability to choke a bitch!
I'm convinced after seeing this that wasn't Wonder Woman that was Superwoman of Earth 3 that escaped to this Earth to fuck people up!
I wonder if this is one of those superhero series/movies where the main hero is the only super-being in the entire world because I'm convinced that if there was a Superman in this universe he'd come along and arrested her because she is pretty much a supervillain. She's pretty much the elite if they were just single person.
Well, I'd loved to have seen another episode just to see some one tell her that the security guard she piped to death was just doing his job and had a wife and kids and had no clue of the "supposed" illegal activities his boss was up to!
So which is worse the new 52 Wondie or this one!? XD

PS, I don't mind you cursing it was actually pretty funny in the Dr. Phil voice! :D; January 16, 2012 at 12:53 AM
Mountain King said...: Urm question. Why does Wonder Woman need to torture some one? Her lasso FORCES people to tell the truth!
Just more proof that this wasn't Wonder Woman, but a psychopath dressed in a corset.

Thomas

PS
LINKARA SWORE! My world is spinning, I don't think I can take it; January 16, 2012 at 12:54 AM
Des Shinta said...: And that's three failed pilots. You guys had this planned out for a while, didn't you?
You really do seem to play the slapstick villain pretty well. First Linksano, then Mirrorverse Linkara, and now getting revenge on Nash for his (mostly) unbiased classic reviews in-continuity.
Anyone else getting the vibe the 'Pants to be darkened' line will become a battle cry or reoccurring line in other crossover reviews? It's a funny line.
I can see pretty well why this didn't get approved to go any further. You only want to see heroes doing evil things if it's in the character to be evil. As you've gone over so many times now, doing that with Wonder Woman is stupid.

Achievement Unlocked: Invoked Hell Hath No Fury.; January 16, 2012 at 1:01 AM
boooratt said...: here watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICKK0MP5Zac and was this from your eyes! It's a fan made film from YouTube somebody is doing using already excising film footage of a better Wonder Woman played by an actress I think would be a much better for role in a real movie someday!
PS: Paints to be DARKENED!; January 16, 2012 at 1:02 AM
Anonymous said...: I Have NEVER read a Wonder Woman comic in my life and even I can say with certainly that by JUST watching your show Linkara, this Pilot got EVERYTHING wrong about Wonder Woman.

And if some random guy in some small town in Canada knows better then so called "Professional" writers, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE!; January 16, 2012 at 1:41 AM
Dipps said...: Oh, Etta, baby, what have they DONE to you? And where are they hiding the rest of you?!

WONDER WOMAN FORCED YOU TO GET LIPO, DIDN'T SHE?!

Seriously, it's like a slap in the face. Here they are, already desecrating Wonder Woman's legacy and turning her into a psychopath, and then they have the nerve to take one of my favorite characters and turn her into a Thinnagen! I mean, nothing against thin people, but Etta Candy was a heavy woman, and one of Dianna's first faithful sidekicks.; January 16, 2012 at 1:43 AM
MintWhelp said...: What... the... hell...

You know, maybe the pilot could have been saved, if the pitch was that, in fact, the series was less about Wonder Woman, and more about a psychopath that thinks she is Wonder Woman, and, eventually, gets her comeuppance, and several years of therapy.

Bet whomever paid for this pilot had his PANTS TO BE DARKENED.; January 16, 2012 at 2:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Wow, I'm not even a Wonder Woman fan and even I can tell how ffed up that pilot was. You guys were hilarious by the way, loved the opening.

Linkara, I'm sure after always playing the hero on your show you had fun playing the villain. Didn't know you had a dark side.; January 16, 2012 at 2:15 AM
Big_Mad_Draco said...: I don't see what the problem is, it seems like the standard story of an amoral business woman who views herself above the law and her equally wealthy opponent who despite everything is trying to make a better world. Though I can't figure out why they named the show after the villain.XD

Joking aside, I can't remember the last time I saw anything with such a loathsome, vile, unrepentantly evil protagonist that was completely unaware of that fact.

What worse is that the guy she killed with a pipe was waring a security guard uniform. He very well could have been some working man who didn't know about the company's darker aspects.; January 16, 2012 at 2:50 AM
Unknown said...: I've reviewed the pilot myself.

The pilot features a bewildering plot, a crippling lack of thematic focus and bad camera and lighting work. The pilot is structurally bad from the outset and fails as a TV, to say nothing of being a superhero adaptation. The only other thing right about the David E. Kelley’s Wonder Woman pilot is the casting, so kudos to casting director David Rappaport. Seriously, the casting is spot on, with Elizabeth Hurley and Tracie Thoms giving good performances in their rolls and Adrianne Palicki, as Wonder Woman, managing to shine.

In Buffy, by comparison, the villains and monsters all looks like monsters and villains. By comparison, in bewildering decision of costuming and staging, in the action showpiece of the Wonder Woman pilot, the villain’s goons look like members of a L.A. power-lifting club. They could be potentially menacing, assuming a fair fight, but it is not a fair fight as depicted. The mooks are neither armed nor armored – they are not even wearing uniforms. What should have been a thrilling action sequence becomes brutal and wince inducing as Wonder Woman beats her human foes by kicking around full sized cargo containers in a fight with a group of weaponless men wearing shorts and tee-shirts.

The people Buffy chose to have in her life are strong, to some degree, and interesting. The people Wonder Woman chose to have in her life are unimpressive and passive aggressive. For that matter, Buffy surrounded herself with friends; while in the pilot, Wonder Woman has no friends – merely employees. Consider what that tells the audience about these two main characters.

Another show comparable to the Wonder Woman pilot is 24, where Kiefer Sutherland portrays Jack Bauer. Bauer used – let us be blunt – torture to interrogate villains a number of times. The staging, lighting and over all execution of those scenes usually made the villain look villainous and Bower look like a dangerous bad ass doing a necessary evil. By comparison, the scene where Wonder Woman interrogates a drug peddler seems composed for showing -off Adrianne Palicki’s cleavage. There are commercial’s pitching bed linens from Sears and baby diapers that manage to make the actors look less hapless and more adversarial than the interrogation scene in this failed pilot.

There is a scene were Wonder Woman straight up kills a dude. This sequence would be par for the course in a show like 24 or any number of violent detective shows, but it is terribly jarring and widely out of place in an office melodrama like the Practice, which is what the other half of the Wonder Woman pilot tries to be.

However, the scene where Wonder Woman argues with the main villain is the best scene in the pilot, as both Adrianne Palicki and Elizabeth Hurley give it their all and there is nice energy to the exchange. The second best scene is where Wonder Woman has dinner with a corrupt senator who tries to intimidate her.

The episode’s version of the invisible jet looks stupid, like Wonder Woman is going into battle in a flying version of an ultra-compact hybrid. She also uses her lasso in ways that should be fatally snapping necks right and left.

It also ends with a mopey Wonder Woman. A mopey god damned Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman does not do mopey. Wonder Woman kicks evil gods in the face, she took Steve Trevor for the traditional Amazonian greeting of the 100-meter face luge when she first met him and she hits on the Goddamned Batman. If this is too much geek knowledge, consider this… as a vehicle for female power fantasies, the Wonder Woman pilot, which is theoretically setting up an operating standard for the rest of the series, ends with its main character at home, alone, sad and so impotent in terms of controlling her own life she cannot even finish her own face book profile.

Who the hell thought that was a good idea?; January 16, 2012 at 3:48 AM
joeymartin64 said...: Even as prosecutorially biased as Nancy Grace is, I don't think her line was necessarily meant to "aggrandize" Wondy's actions there, as much as to do the whole "WE ARE REFERENCING REAL EVENTS" thing.

Of course, as cringe-inducing as the rest of the show was about its morality, giving them the benefit of the doubt even on that one is probably being far too generous.; January 16, 2012 at 3:50 AM
MrSuperDuck said...: Most TERRIFYING "super hero" ever!

PANTS TO BE DARKENED!!!; January 16, 2012 at 4:09 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Oh my god.
Am I the only one, who thinks, the movie isn`t thaaaat bad?
I mean - there are worst movies.
Don`t believe me?
Watch "The fabulous world of Amelie"... a yawn-fest.
The Hulk movies? Completeley senseless.

And no, I am Cal, not Sake, but - I cannot help myself, I didn`t find the movie that bad. It is bad, of course, but... it isn`t that bad.

I can imagine, that the producers of the movie sat on the executive floor, at the meeting and said: "Well - Batman is much more grim these days."
Another one might have said: "If we portray Wonder Woman as the 'spirit of truth', people would say "What the hell is this shit?" Only comic-book nerds would say "It is an actual portrayal of the character."
And - that is just me again - please keep in mind, that us comic-and-sci-fi-nerds are still not a target audience to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, that is the nature of things.

So - they had to make the series a bit more appealing to the target-group of the young red-blooded american man who wants to see breasts and... well, apparently they had the target audience for baywatch in mind.

Okay, storywise, from the sane perspective, I cannot help but notice, that wondie in this pilot is a frakking Mary Sue. She is in the right - no matter what the reality says - she is loved, and even applauded at the end, for committing crimes. And she walks away from it, because her ex-boyfriend is the one, who cuts her loose.

Like I said, it is bad - but I have seen worse movies, you can believe me.

It is sad, that they couldn't have brought the Wonder Woman show to a more satisfying pilot - I mean, a great one, one, that brings those points, you addressed, Linkara.

But why couldn`t they?
Lazy writing?
Was it just a project, which needed to be a flop?
Or maybe, it was, because people said, immediately "Ew, what piece of crap?"
Can it be, that there is that much common sense?

I dunno - I just know, that - as I pointed out - I didn`t find it that bad.

Greets

Cal; January 16, 2012 at 4:14 AM
xxstyxx said...: Im not a Guy who is most familiar with DC, but this was disturbing.
As i understand Wonder Woman is something like a Paladin in a society she doesnt fully understands (man, economy, industry and commerce). Although she grew up on Earth, she is more alienated than e.g. Superman.

But THIS Woman is the complete opposite on all of this.
She is a buisness Woman, who had an regular Boyfriend, ownes a big company and kill people.

The funny thing is, the scene were she deflects bullets, i thought it would be a cool Batman scene. Except he wouldnt kill that Guy with a Pipe.

BTW, i remeber a Captain America Comic with a very similar Story.
Captain America #328
http://marvel.wikia.com/Captain_America_Vol_1_328

All in all im glad it never aired.; January 16, 2012 at 4:35 AM
Delichon said...: This film made me concerned over the actual morality of the person, who wrote the script.
As in - this script could only be produced by a person, who is a) immoral, or b) a huge cynic and considers his viewers to be essentially immoral.

That I read the biography of David E. Kelley, and learned that he was a lawyer before he got into Hollywood.
Well, a) it is than.; January 16, 2012 at 5:12 AM
Sabre said...: I tend to not like film brain, but this was great.

One joke you missed (or didn't use) was that the bad guys all wear shirts that are to small for some reason.

I don't know why the pants had to be darkened. Do you ever darken your hat? :P

I watch SFDebris, and his alturnative Janeway interpratation is mostly for laughs, but here, it seems hard to take it any other way.

I do think this theme could have worked as a wonder woman story if the system was failing the innocent. I also think this story wwould work for the Punisher. The line about being good at revenge, corruption and torture in particular. That could have worked.; January 16, 2012 at 5:24 AM
Jer Alford said...: Did the writers FORGET that Wonder Woman has a "MAGIC LASSO" that compels anyone tied up in it to tell the truth? She doesn't need to TORTURE them! If Batman had a magic lasso, he wouldn't be dangling bad guys outside windows!; January 16, 2012 at 5:36 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Delichon

So, the script was written by David E. Kelly? Hm – maybe, Diana of Thermyscyra in that universe has good contacts to Crane, Poole and Schmidt.

And hence, I would say, that he is a big cynic.

@ Sabre

“I do think this theme could have worked as a wonder woman story if the system was failing the innocent. I also think this story wwould work for the Punisher. The line about being good at revenge, corruption and torture in particular. That could have worked.“

Well, from a Fanfic-y aspect, I can say, the storyline essentially works. The script was brought to you by the same guy, that brought us Boston Legal, a series about lawyers, who sometimes get the bad guys out of the prison, by circumventing the court, using clever tactics etc. so – and when I read, that he was a lawyer, I guess, it is his world view.

So, tied in in the universe from “the practice” and “boston legal”, I guess, Diana of thermyscyra has every reason not to trust the law-system.
Standing on its own, the pilot movie was a complete flop, but tied in in those thoughts, it works.

Greets

Cal; January 16, 2012 at 6:26 AM
Bellarius said...: ...

Geoff Johns, all is forgiven. You never reached this level of mis-characterisation and horrific ideas.

Also did someone get the script wrong and mixed up parts with the Power Girl comics? Why does Wonder Woman have a cat and run a major corperation? The writers were taking notes about the wrong superheroine!; January 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM
Inquisitor D. said...: This... this isn't Wonder Wonman. It's some kind of alternate reality Bomb Queen.

For those too lazy to click a wikipedia link, Bomb Queen's a supervillianess, published by Image, who pretty much fits into Film Brain's definition of this character. Now, this Queen is pretending to be a hero, rather than being honest about villiany, and is much less self assured...

Yeah, Bomb Queen, but supposed to be taken seriously. As a hero.

... Didn't see that coming; January 16, 2012 at 7:16 AM
SchweitzerMan said...: Wow, this makes me realize that the best tv adaptations of superheroes can only be done if animated; January 16, 2012 at 7:24 AM
Unknown said...: Good. LORD.

They turned her into Crazy Steve!; January 16, 2012 at 8:11 AM
LucasChad said...: I wonder if "Pants to be Darkened" will be Linkara's catchphrase for now on whenever he finds something really stupid in a comic.

Since you guys reviewed an unfinished version, hopefully this video doesn't get deleted like what happens to Cinema Snob's Grizzly II video.; January 16, 2012 at 9:14 AM
rdfox said...: Good god. This was bad. It was just BAD.

When "Justice League of Pornstars" got Wondy's character more accurately than your Hollywood production? There's no other word for it: YOU. FAIL.

Ironically, I was less thrown by her killing the guard shooting at her than by the torture scene. Diana's a warrior; she won't hesitate to kill if it's necessary. While it probably wasn't strictly necessary there (she did have other ways of incapacitating him), I'm really not going to complain about her using lethal force against someone who is using lethal force against her.

However, with the torture scene, SHE HAD THE LASSO RIGHT THERE! THEY MADE A POINT OF SHOWING HER DROP IT ON THE GUY'S CHEST! There is NO reason for her to use any method of interrogation other than, "Will you tell me who was behind this?" "No." "All right. *wraps lasso loosely around arm* Who were you working for?" It's still coerced testimony that'd be inadmissible in court, but at least then she's not being depicted as a sociopathic monster who tortures someone she ALREADY hospitalized JUST FOR FUN (since she had an alternative method of getting the information at hand).

GAWD! You know, I suggest that none of us EVER refer to this abomination (the show OR this depiction of the character) as "Wonder Woman" again. Instead, I propose, in homage to the only other licensed depiction of a DC hero as being this batshit insane, we now permanently refer to both the pilot and the woman as "Crazy Stephanie"! (Which is hard enough for a Spoiler fan like me to say...); January 16, 2012 at 9:35 AM
Jigglysaint said...: The blooper at the end was especially funny since I watched most of it 3 times before going off to post "Linkara Swore!", then letting it finish and having him be self aware about that.

But anyway, that was a horrible show. I'm not sure where they were planning to go with this series, but I'm glad it never got anywhere. This is almost as bad as "Heil Honey, I'm Home".; January 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM
13th Doctor said...: "I can imagine, that the producers of the movie sat on the executive floor, at the meeting and said: "Well - Batman is much more grim these days."
Another one might have said: "If we portray Wonder Woman as the 'spirit of truth', people would say "What the hell is this shit?" Only comic-book nerds would say "It is an actual portrayal of the character."
And - that is just me again - please keep in mind, that us comic-and-sci-fi-nerds are still not a target audience to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, that is the nature of things.

So - they had to make the series a bit more appealing to the target-group of the young red-blooded american man who wants to see breasts and... well, apparently they had the target audience for baywatch in mind."

The difference between Batman and Wonder Woman is that for Batman, it really works because he fights crime at night, has a tortured psychological backstory and is meant to be a figure of menace for the criminal underworld. With Wonder Woman, she is s with supposed to be more of a role model
who respects the rule of law. Here, she is just freaking psychotic. No adequate justification is given for her behavior. This isn't "24"; at least, Jack Bauer was portrayed as a tragic figure whose heart is in the right place but always has to pay a terrible price for his extremism so there are good arguments on BOTH sides. Here, they have the gall to play up the "I just want to be normal" schtick for someone who is CRAZY.

Sorry, but I just can't accept the "this is how it's done now" cop-out. Christopher Nolan's Batman series demonstrated that you can stay true to the character AND appeal to a mainstream audience. If you can't stay true to the character, DON'T BOTHER. Rename the character. It will still suck but at least you won't be insulting the fans.; January 16, 2012 at 9:50 AM
Anonymous said...: Film Brain looks ****ing creepy at 1:46.; January 16, 2012 at 9:53 AM
Pigquet said...: "What's really great about this is that this'll end up on the blooper reel and people will be upset over the fact that I swear in real life."

Lovely! <_<

Just kidding! I actually really love it, and it makes me especially happy, because now I don't have to feel guilty about both swearing regularly and having a crush on you at the same time! This could actually work! ;)

Extremely fun crossover! Moreso than I originally thought it would be. I love how Film Brain is always portrayed almost like a little child in these things, with just wanting to be included in the fun and getting really upset when someone's killed. He's so cute!; January 16, 2012 at 9:53 AM
rick007 said...: Where did you gat that Tommy gun? I assume it's fake. Dunb question I know but it looks real.; January 16, 2012 at 10:03 AM
The Blue And The Gold said...: ...

So, when will Gail Simone descend from above and punish those responsible for this character desecration?; January 16, 2012 at 10:16 AM
Timzor said...: I didn't even know that pilot had been leaked. Nothing I heard about it back when a Wonder Woman TV show was still a possibility even remotely prepared me for what I just saw.
Great review, and god damn... I admit I enjoyed the pilot on some perverse level. Never been a huge Wonder Woman fan (It's not that I dislike the character at all, just never really gotten into it), but for some reason I just enjoyed seeing this Mirror, Mirror evil vigilante version, operating in this twisted version of reality in which she's considered a hero. If it were done intentionally, it might actually make for a really cool TV show.; January 16, 2012 at 10:17 AM
Peteman said...: So... I trust we can be glad that they didn't make a series out of this.; January 16, 2012 at 10:35 AM
CENSORSHIPMAN, THE CHAMPION OF MORAL RIGHTEOUSNESS said...: YOU FOOLS !!! Forget Adrianne Palicki, the Yankee United States of North America, a.k.a. the YUSNA, has a new Wonder Woman and following as tradition demands she come from Miss America's Contest :

Ladies and Gentlemen please welcome Miss Wisconsin, Laura Kaeppeler the 2012 Crowned Miss America, and like the all one and only original Wonder Woman from the 70's tv series she is a real blue eyes, brunette with a gorgeous smile and like Linda Carter she also sings beautifully.

The only thing we need now is DC Comics and Warner Brothers bankruptcy to avoid any studio interference during the making of for this tv series.

So lets make our prayers people, lets make our prayers and ask for a few miracles.

Comic Book Companies and TV/Movie Studios be damned when they didn't do it their home work.

Reverend Cleophus James if you please...

From the Collection of Holy Prayers from Public Domain Torrents and File Sharings - Blues Brothers (1980) James Brown Scene

Amen.

P.S.: Frakk David E. Kelly, he should try to make a Powergirl Pilot instead, this pilot screams Karen Starr and triple D's all over the place.; January 16, 2012 at 10:40 AM
Damienx247 said...: I kept hoping at some point in the pilot, another Wonder Woman would show and defeat this psycho impostor. ugggh; January 16, 2012 at 10:51 AM
Sabre said...: CaptainCalvinCat-

I don't think that's a fair excuse, if they want to write a show about a corrupt law system, do that. There was no reason to botch WW for it.

But it is funny how often that kind of thinking can apply to a show. The 2 that spring to mind are the film Blair Witch 2, who's crazy, nonsense plot makes more sense if you imagine it's an extended episode of Burn Notice seen from the bad guys point of view, and the game 50 cent: Blood on the Sand where it's fun to picture it as a prequal to Call of Duty 4 as the event that destablised the middle east.

Even so, the popularity of arc shows and the possiblity to establish comic book style continuity on TV (much like the Marvel films in the wake of Harry Potter) meant that there was no reason for it. Again, this could have been the first in a series long arc of fighting a corrupt system. It would also allow you to re-use the villain of the week.; January 16, 2012 at 11:12 AM
Anonymous said...: I instantly laughed when I saw the title card

Wonder Woman makes you scared; January 16, 2012 at 11:28 AM
Anonymous said...: I'm convinced that Wonder Woman is the villain of this episode

Also, why didn't you complain about Themyscira being a company instead an island. Meaning that they just through away everything about Wonder Woman's origin that was set up from her first appearance to 70 years of her history.

I think those two things are what pissed me off the most about this pilot.

Plus, why is there a monologue about Wonder Woman's tits and ass. The actress releasies what she is saying right.; January 16, 2012 at 11:52 AM
Anonymous said...: Please, Please, PLEASE makes "pants to be darkened" a running gag on your show Linkara.; January 16, 2012 at 12:24 PM
Enigma_2099 said...: Lemme quote Winston Zeddemore...

"That was really... stupid..."

And no... leave Lynda Carter out of this. She deserves MUCH better.; January 16, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Katherine said...: “’Abu-Ghraibs’ her quarry?” I have NEVER heard anyone use Abu Ghraib as a catchphrase, probably because most people would already know that to do such a thing would be horribly offensive and insensitive.

I hate to agree with Dr. Phil, but he’s right; this version of Wonder Woman CLEARLY needs to take anger management classes.

Cary Elwes, noooo! Why on earth are you in this travesty?

Why on earth does Wonder Woman own a corporation? Stop trying to turn her into Tony Stark or Batman! What’s next, you’re going to have Clark Kent own ‘Krypton Inc.?’

What were they trying to do with her ‘alter ego?’ Copy the portrayal of Tim Burton’s Selina Kyle: frustrated woman living alone with her cat? Diana’s character just keeps getting more and more derailed by the second…

And…here we have Wonder Woman stupidly accusing a woman of a crime in public while admitting that she doesn’t have proof and then petulantly whining when said woman calls her an “action figure.” Lady, you just accused her of leading a vast criminal conspiracy. Given the seriousness of that charge, I’m surprised that she didn’t call you something far worse.

And I love how Wonder Woman decries the action figure of her because of its large breasts, but has no problem using the real said breasts to break into a hospital room. -_-

Although, ironically, the character herself is a Barbie doll. The only emotions I’ve seen her show are sociopathic aggression and smirking arrogance. I haven’t seen a hint of compassion from her (no, those scenes between her and the victim and between her and the victim’s mother don’t count because I didn’t feel that she was being truly kind and compassionate there, due to the acting, script, or both). The character is not only repulsive; she’s as flat as a pancake. She doesn’t seem to feel anything, other than conviction that she’s unfailingly superior to the puny mortals that she condescends to or tortures and murders, which is the complete opposite of Wonder Woman’s character. This hideous impostor, or WWINO as she should be called, can freely join the ranks of Crazy Steve and Bearded Idiot.

@vadth_the_bluelock: That’s what I was thinking. As horrible as Miller’s portrayal of Batman is, at least fans can fall back on the excuse, “Well, Batman’s always been/is supposed to be dark and gritty! He’s an antihero!” There is NO excuse for this. Wonder Woman is not an antihero; she is supposed to be the compassionate Spirit of Truth. You might as well make Captain America a law-breaking psychopath who gleefully murders people in cold blood and glories in corruption.; January 16, 2012 at 1:01 PM
Jarkes said...: Wait, what was the other crossover you did? I know you did this one, and that Dracula thing, but all the comments on here keep suggesting to me that you've already done that other crossover you were planning on doing? Which one was that?

Also, I had been waiting for you to do another crossover with Film Brain ever since the Spirit review... and somehow, I suspected that if you ever did do crossovers together again, you would be doing this pilot... but I DIDN'T expect Nash to be brought into it!; January 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM
Jarkes said...: Also, which Crowning Moment of Funny page should stuff from this review go on? Atop the Fourth Wall, BMB, or WTFIWWY?; January 16, 2012 at 1:16 PM
Anonymous said...: too
much
REPUBLICAN!

can
not
BREATHE!; January 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: "Geoff Johns, all is forgiven. You never reached this level of mis-characterisation and horrific ideas."

See, what's funny to me is that this feels like it was written by Geoff Johns. Constant references to her "not being human" or that she "sees herself as perfect," unnecessary uber-violence...; January 16, 2012 at 1:49 PM
Anonymous said...: THANK YOU!

I was morbidly curious about the pilot, but didn't want to sit through something that was supposed to be that awful

Thanks to you, I don't have to!

Also, this pilot confirms my suspicion about Hollywood lobbyists being partially responsible for the NDAA (probably as part of their plan to shut-up the SOPA opposition); January 16, 2012 at 2:07 PM
megaL3 said...: Great review but,no 'watchoo talkin' bout willis?' joke?; January 16, 2012 at 2:24 PM
Carlos Hugo said...: Ho My God, I never believed that I will be seen Wonder Woman in my nightmares, but after this I will probably never going to sleep ever again.

That was a Horrible portray of WW, and I was thinking this thing was canceled just because of the people hating the pants, but now I think I prefer a WW in pants that a psychotic WW on a look a like swimsuit.; January 16, 2012 at 2:39 PM
PopCultureOtaku said...: As bad as this pilot was I still take over the dc reboot Wonder Woman.; January 16, 2012 at 2:41 PM
Anonymous said...: First that Batman look alike Crazy Steve, now this...

That's it, for now on, this chick shall be called Crazy Jane, The Frank Miller version of Wonder Woman!; January 16, 2012 at 2:53 PM
Peteman said...: I wonder... is the kid's last name "Parks", and is it supposed to be an invocation of Rosa Parks? In a transparent attempt to invoke sympathy?; January 16, 2012 at 2:58 PM
CENSORSHIPMAN, THE CHAMPION OF MORAL RIGHTEOUSNESS said...: For Brother Lewis :

Honestly i liked this pilot but then you gonna remind me that i like anything that scream sinners exploitation of their lower instincts. Don't blame me, i'm just a Reverend, blame my congregation we have different standards.

And even assuming that i am still really praying for a Wonder Woman anything : pilot, movie, cartoon, whatever, at this point as a fan i am willing to accept even that failure coming from David E. Kelley twisted judicial mind, i am starving for anything made with Wonder Woman.

Jesus Christ, anything except that New 52's crap ! You wanna talk about desecration, failure and portraits totally out of character ? I know you already said everything that should be said about that "Whatever Woman" but please make a new That's All I Saying when you have a chance, 6 books were cancelled and axed without mercy and probably 6 new crappy exploitation books will replace them but the only two african american characters had their titles already screwed together with Blackhawks.

Blackhawks was axed before Demon Knights ? How that is possible ? Wasn't you affraid about Demon Knights be cancelled on the first chance ? Is that book still worth it ?

I personally don't know, i still have a lot of comics to read since laziness outside my work place still is my second biggest sin, lust comes as the usual number one sin.

Forgive me Lord, internet made me weaker than i thought possible but that's okay while everything coming from the web stay on the web right ?

My prayers go for Powergirl and Huntress, i hope they have better luck on Earth 2 because this New 52's in my opinion is spiraling down already. Straight down the toilet.

And All please Rise and open your browser of common prayer and search for The Beatles Money (That's What I Want) as originally sung originally by the apostles John and Paul and keep in mind why DC and Hollywood never fail to deliver all that crap for you sinners.

It's because you paid for it you fools.

Last Rites : AC/DC Shoot to Thrill (with Iron Man 2 footage! and Sisters of Hail Mary Exotic Reindeer Style Dancers); January 16, 2012 at 3:19 PM
Kaibaman41 said...: You know even though Frank Miller has made a lot of weird shit were Batman is a crazy asshole or where theirs an alternate Universe where Super Heroes are bad guys...like Linkara said AT LEAST THE NARRATIVE EXPLAINS WHAT HAPPENED!

Thank GOD! This got destroyed when it did...this is just...To Quote The Nerd.....WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY THINKING!? I mean WOW they completely destroyed Wonder Women's character! And I understand shows where they expose what companies can do in a fictional setting but JESUS CHRIST do they have the villains backwards...WONDER WOMAN IS THE TRUE VILLAIN OF THE SHOW!...And that's hard to even say calling a Super Hero a FUCKING VILLAIN! And The SOPA Joke was genius who ever wrote that in the script.

Also...PANTS TO BE DARKENED!; January 16, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Unknown said...: Uggh, I hate this pilot. My jaw dropped when she threw that pipe into the guy's throat. The writers of this pilot have obviously never heard of Wonder Woman and only saw a photo with her name in a caption box. Seriously, this show ruins the mythos of Wonder Woman worse then Brian Azzerello did. Why make her the head of a company? What about the Amazons? Why does she need money? What about being an ambassador to America? I guess we will never know. Thank God.

PS, have you seen the unaired Aquaman pilot? I have and I kind of liked it.; January 16, 2012 at 4:23 PM
Redem said...: Is that me or since 24 (to give a television reference, but of course its part of a larger trend that started with the war on Terror), the good guy being ok with torture as spread a lot while previously it would have been near unthinkable to have good guy do this?; January 16, 2012 at 4:33 PM
Bellarius said...: "See, what's funny to me is that this feels like it was written by Geoff Johns. Constant references to her "not being human" or that she "sees herself as perfect," unnecessary uber-violence..."

It feels like one, i'll agree to that, but what I meant was this seemed like a look into how much worse things could have been in comics. This thing's tale is like a Johns comic with all aspects of quality removed and its failings increased to ludicrous degrees.; January 16, 2012 at 4:39 PM
Red Spearow said...: No, no, no, no. At the end, they shouldn't have shouted, "PANTS TO BE DARKENED!" Rather when asked who was responsible, everyone points to Linkara and he runs off with her guns blazing. That would have made this episode perfect.

As for the review, I'm used to the idiotic poor research of the law in modern media and I've accepted this (though this reaches a new low and was especially painful as a CJ major). What makes me curious is why she killed that security guard, but only beat up the fat generic thugs. What did the guard do to deserve a pipe to the throat?; January 16, 2012 at 4:39 PM
nebosuke said...: You know, as horrible as this pilot was I kind of want to see a team up between Not Wonderwoman, Crazy Steve, and Bearded Idiot just to see what it would look like. That's morbid curiosity for you, lol; January 16, 2012 at 4:48 PM
August M. said...: Why do I get the feeling of this being All-Star Wonder Woman written by Geoff Johns?

Even though I would rather watch this over the Justice League pilot, this was just insulting to Wonder Woman and her fans. Although, I did enjoyed that her iconic one-piece swimsuit made it to the pilot because I hated the suit with pants.

Great review and I hope there's more crossovers with Nash and Film Brain(Probably for the 4th Anniversary film, I hope). Keep it up.; January 16, 2012 at 5:36 PM
Jarkes said...: @CENSORSHIPMAN, CHAMPION OF MO:

...You're Captain Sake Mangusto, aren't you?; January 16, 2012 at 5:39 PM
Volvagia said...: Three notes:

SchweitzerMan: The biggest problems are budget and talent. If someone who loves comics goes into TV these days, they're going to want to show people how it looks to them best as they can.
Censorshipman: Power Girl? That only fixes the problem with the T&A speech. The other problems (torture, character choices) are still there.
Rdfox: I don't know. Best guess is he has a general sense of a stance on superheroes (thinks they're AWFUL based on contextualizing this pilot) and that's IT.; January 16, 2012 at 5:50 PM
Peteman said...: You know Wonder Woman, the reason we want you to be perfect, who always does everything right, is because if you weren't, we'd have a crazy vigilante who is unanswerable to anyone running around brutalizing and killing people with nothing more than a hunch.; January 16, 2012 at 6:44 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Katherine

Quote And…here we have Wonder Woman stupidly accusing a woman of a crime in public while admitting that she doesn’t have proof and then petulantly whining when said woman calls her an “action figure.” Lady, you just accused her of leading a vast criminal conspiracy. Given the seriousness of that charge, I’m surprised that she didn’t call you something far worse. /quote

I wouldn’t call it “stupidly accusing”, I would say, that she accuses out of her gut-feeling. If it wouldn’t be Wonder Woman, but a grey-haired “bastard” called Leroy Jethro Gibbs, one would say “Yes, he knows his stuff.”.

Quote And I love how Wonder Woman decries the action figure of her because of its large breasts, but has no problem using the real said breasts to break into a hospital room. -_- /quote

Erm… she didn`t use them. She spoke at the guard, tried to use them (which is a logical choice – I mean, if you KNOW how your character is viewed, you can toy with that. “You live freely if you haven't a reputation to lose.“) and when it didn`t work, she spoke to the Detective.

@ Sabre
I don't think that's a fair excuse, if they want to write a show about a corrupt law system, do that. There was no reason to botch WW for it.

You are right, but somehow, either I have no taste or a bad one, but – I think, the movie is not that bad. It could have been something, that would have had a new, interesting approach to it – but when people in the forefront outright say “WW Pilot Post Mortem: So bad it was… awful. Dull. Humorless. Confusing. NBC was right to euthanize it. Adrianne Palicki deserved better.”
” I say “Well, shut up and let it develop.”
I don’t want to know, what that guy said about other shows. Who is this guy, by the way? Who is Ausiello?

I think, it could have become something, if one have had the decency to at least TRY it.
After all, we have so much bad television, one other show, that evolved, would not have been that bad. I for my part see potential there.; January 16, 2012 at 6:52 PM
Jason said...: Up until the final battle I really don't see her doing anything that Batman doesn't do. Including flying through a city.

And the most recent vesions of Wonder Woman have been among the most likely superheroes to kill.; January 16, 2012 at 7:03 PM
CountZeroOr said...: One thing that you didn't bring up in the review that probably bears mentioning - David E. Kelly's prior work.

By means of explanation - David E. Kelly, creator of The Practice, Ally McBeal, LA Law, Boston Legal. What do all of these series have in common? All involving (with the slight exception of Boston Public) young professionals (possibly upwardly mobile, but not necessarily always), working in corporate environments. Occasionally there are older characters (as in Boston Legal), but the leads lean towards the 20-somethings and 30-somethings.

To put this another way - Wonder Woman ultimately boils down to what you'd get if you had David E. Kelly write an action series. If this were a spy series, then the series would be about a secret agency which investigates the shady dealings of corporations under the guise of a law firm.

With perhaps the rare exception of Boston Public*, David E. Kelly can't write characters that aren't yuppies - especially women. Think about it this way - of the female characters in this episode - of the ones with the most screen time (meaning, not the African American Mom), how many of them would you describe as corporate executives, lawyers, or assistants. From what I saw in the review - all of them would fit that description.

Now, it's entirely possible that in later episodes we could have gotten female characters who are police detectives, judges, etc. People who aren't David E. Kelly Female Character #1. However, from my admittedly limited exposure, I doubt that.

*I haven't seen Boston Public, but judging by the premise I'd think the show would be a Yuppie Free Zone.; January 16, 2012 at 7:06 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Jarkes: Yepp, he is.
Okay - so right now it is me and Sake, who say, that the movie is actually decent. Oh boy.

Oh how much I wished, that I could just say "Okay, you all are right, the movie is bad" but... unfortunately I think and evaluate for myself.
That sucks. ^^ And problem is, I don`t want to cause trouble, I sincerely think, that the show could have been good.

Greets

Cal; January 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM
The Mad Scientist said...: This review was amazing! The three of you have great chemistry together. I've been a proponent of three-person reviews since "Alone in the Dark", so I'm glad this one came about!

Also, speaking of "Alone in the Dark", anyone who has the first NC DVD and saw the blooper reel knows you swear already, Lewis. Not to say that's not funny to hear it again - believe me, it is.; January 16, 2012 at 7:27 PM
Jake Vitela said...: This would've been better if they did this as a Huntress TV pilot. It probably wouldn't have been good, but at least be better.; January 16, 2012 at 8:04 PM
Jarkes said...: @Cal:

I think COULD have been good is the key word there.; January 16, 2012 at 8:12 PM
Matt said...: "See, what's funny to me is that this feels like it was written by Geoff Johns. Constant references to her "not being human" or that she "sees herself as perfect," unnecessary uber-violence..."

Lewis, you hit the nail right on the head with this. I found myself thinking more and more as the review went on, "This really isn't out of character for Diana.... so long as we're talking about Wonder Woman circa Infinite Crisis and the countdown issue which, pound for pound, has got to be a hundred times worse than any single issue of Countdown to Final Crisis."; January 16, 2012 at 8:40 PM
August M. said...: After watching the review again, I just notice something about Wondy's cat: He's black with a white belly and paws and he's named Sylvester. Subtle reference from the Looney Tunes, or a reminder that Wondy is owned by WB? You decide.; January 16, 2012 at 8:42 PM
Ming said...: I don't know what is worse: Superman at Earth's End and Amazons Attack combined or this TV pilot. All I know is that somewhere in the DCU, Wonder Woman is watching this along with Troia, Wonder Girl, and any superheroine and they are actually furious.

This is not how you do Wonder Woman! Lynda Carter did Woman Woman right. Timm and Dini did an accurate portrayal of Wonder Woman in Justice League. The DCU Original Animated Movie did it right. Why couldn't this pilot do it right? It's like something out of the Dark Age of Comics! I don't think even a complete version of this travesty would not make this better. I'm actually glad they passed this pilot; this should never have seen the light of day.

I hope someone comes up with a better Wonder Woman pilot soon.

P.S.: Great follow-up to the JLA pilot with Nash and Film Brain. Are there any more bad superhero TV stuff you want to beat down?; January 16, 2012 at 9:20 PM
Gyre said...: I just love 'Wonder Woman' expresses fears about loved ones getting hurt by her actions and yet she never realizes that her actions are putting everyone who works for her at risk. There isn't just the problem of criminals attacking but also the fact that they are probably liable for her actions* if someone wanted to sue.

Incidentally, no offense Linkara and co., but this is one of those reviews where the subject material is actually so bad that it's simply hard to enjoy the review. It's not an insult to your abilities, just that this was so horrible an episode that I found myself muting for practically every moment you weren't speaking.

*This sounds like a job for Law and the Multiverse!; January 16, 2012 at 9:33 PM
mystman said...: Why...why is Wonder Woman torturing a guy when she has her magic lasso RIGHT THERE!?!; January 16, 2012 at 9:39 PM
Unknown said...: Shameless plug time. I recently started writing articles on CBM outlining plots for comic book films as I would make them. One of my earlier articles revolves around Wonder Woman. It's not a short read but you might get a kick out of it.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/moviewhatifs/news/?a=50731

I've also done articles based around Superman, Justice League and most recently, Aquaman, so feel free to check them out.

The thing with Wonder Woman is that Hollywood seems to think she's a hard character to adapt. She's not. From a plot perspective alone, it's pretty damn easy. Embrace the mythology. Take her from her mythical island to the outside world, letting her fight gods and monsters even as she explores what "Man's World" has to offer.

Don't write her as a stereotypical feminist, just write her as a person getting to grips with a strange culture while fighting to protect it. For me, Wonder Woman is the story of an outsider who grows to care for a world she didn't know without ever losing her ability call it as she sees it.

What the pilot failed to understand is that the Amazons, while warriors, while always ready to fight, dedicated themselves to peace. That was their calling. Athena (if I recall correctly) charged them with upholding the ideals of compassion and truth and peace. That's what Wonder Woman is. She upholds those virtues. She fights to protect them, yes but she never betrays them.; January 16, 2012 at 9:40 PM
ZeldaTheSwordsman said...: It's FLOUT the law, not flaunt. That stupid, stupid typo in the AD&D 2E Dungeon Master's Guide...; January 16, 2012 at 9:57 PM
Kyle said...: Am I the only one who knew which Far Side JO was reading due to her line?; January 16, 2012 at 9:57 PM
TimeTravelerJessica said...: PANTS TO BE DARKENED! I laughed so hard at that.

Yeah ... Let's set the stupid plot and distressingly pro-vigilante moments aside. How hard would it have been to have her use the lasso of truth instead of torturing the guy, and put more emphasis on the scenes with her and Willis and Willis's mom? Changing those two things alone would have improved it dramatically. Those scenes were the only ones that rang at all true to the character for me, so I have no idea why they didn't play that up more, since it's the only thing in the series that shows her as a compassionate person. Way too miss one of the character's best traits, guys.; January 16, 2012 at 11:27 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Jarkes

"I think COULD have been good is the key word there. "

And I never said, the movie was good. I just said, I don`t see it as that bad as people say, that it is. I have my own opinion and I'd give the movie 2 out of 5 possible points.

However, there are points, even superhero-movies, which would deserve 0 out of five points. All those "hulk"-movies are prime-examples.

But... that is not really "critique"-motivated, it is just, that I hate that green ... thingie.

Compared to that, even Catwoman was not that bad a movie. 2 out of 5, just as Wondy.

X-Men 1 would get 5 points, Part 2 would get 3 and part 3 would get 4. So that is the spectre.

Greets

Cal; January 17, 2012 at 2:32 AM
Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr said...: Dear Congregation At the Forth Wall,

Don't get this most recent David E.Kelley piece of crap too serious, look at this like an action comedy you know ? A few step below classic Sledge Hammer, from a non-concerned perspective this show could be involuntarily hilarious in an epic scale.

And I can't give enough emphasis brothers and sisters, like i previously stated on my initial comments this pilot was all wrong but, the real trick is, if you get the script and substitute everything mentioning Wonder Woman/Diana Prince and replaced with Powergirl/Karen Starr everything start to make a little bit more sense in a complete nonsensical way.

It's a comedy action series featuring Powergirl, they just need dyed back the hair and give more breast emphasis like any exploitation flick must be.

And now the morning prayers : Guns N' Roses - You could be mine.

Because subtlety is the way of the Lord.; January 17, 2012 at 5:18 AM
Sabre said...: Redem-
Torture being used by the good guys isn't new, 911/24/Saw/whatever thing 'popularized' it according to modern veiwers. For me, the best use of it was in the film "Law abiding citizen" which was a great story about the flaws of the legal system and of vigilante justice.

CptCat-
While I disagree, I'm not going to argue you're wrong for liking it. Even so, best case scenerio is it would be a good show that had nothing to do with WW. Much like the Resident Evil films are often disliked by Resident Evil fans because it's just a random zombie film with the Resident Evil name slapped on a few tocken references.

It's also good that it was dropped as it leaves open the possiblity for another go at it in the future. Otherwise it could end up like Star Trek Enterprise where it pretty much killed the Star Trek name.; January 17, 2012 at 5:44 AM
Gareth said...: I am so glad that my Wonder Woman loving finacee was never unfortunate enough to see this, she would hate it.; January 17, 2012 at 6:52 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Sabre

And Star Trek : Enterprise is a prime example, when I say „let it develop“.
From all seasons, season 4, with all its foreshadowing, was a lot better, than season 1 to 3. Some shows need time to find their footing, some shows find their audience spot-on. But some need time. I read, that the seasons 3 and 4 of the show “3rd rock from the sun” are regarded as “the classic ones” – not season 1 or season 2, but seasons 3 and 4.

But, when people outright say “That show sucks”, how can a show find its way then?
And – something else:
Ally McBeal, The practice, Boston Legal, - all those shows written and produced by David E. Kelly are normally extremely good. Doesn`t it surprise, that – out of the blue – he comes up with something like THAT?
No, when you ask me, either he wanted to tell a story of bigger scale and wasn`t allowed by limitations of budget, acting talent or the network OR he needed a flop, that he could write off.

Okay, maybe it is a bit far fetched and has nothing to do with the review, but... I just wanted to point that out.

Greets

Cal; January 17, 2012 at 7:42 AM
Anonymous said...: I know I'm a bit late but had to comment on this. Wow, I thought that was just bad, cheesy tv but the whole vigilantism, torture and essentially "might makes right" mentality is sickening (visuals too but it's wonderwoman so I thought that it would be very much "toothpaste commercial teeth"-y). This is a bad, bad thing that's been used in US prime time tv action shows basically since 2001 and it's nauseating how torture to this day is being promoted in these shows.; January 17, 2012 at 9:19 AM
Anonymous said...: You know what's even sadder? This movie is a ripoff of Catwoman, I mean, it's right there, the "evil" cosmetic industry, the lawbreaking "heroine" who has a thing for a cop, the lame attempts at making Wonder Woman look "empowered".
I mean, it's right there, why would you rip off another movie that sucks?
At least Catwoman isn't a hero, so she has a excuse to be morally ambiguous.; January 17, 2012 at 9:26 AM
Steve said...: Hey, Sake Mangusto is a man of the cloth now! Neato! Preach on, Reverend James Jones; with any luck you'll manage not to piss off any angels in the audience when you bitch about corrupting Linksano.

As for Wonder Woman the pilot...hooooo boy. I feel like this is a Bruno Mattei genderswap of Punisher Warzone and nobody has filled us in. My best guess is that they wanted to do some generic "loose-cannon cop on the edge WHO DUZZINT PLAY BY DE ROOLS!" story and, not being able to sell it, patched on the Wonder Woman angle to make it marketable.

Also, I know someone mentioned this before, but dammit, this needs to be touched on. The Lasso of Truth is such a gigantic plot hole that it drives me THAT nuts. It has the ability to get information out of people! We've seen it used for this express purpose! I can only assume that they had her put the lasso on the bed to prove that she likes torturing people, in which case I echo the cries of FAIL made thus far.

*proceeds to include PANTS TO BE DARKENED in his everyday speech*; January 17, 2012 at 10:48 AM
Anonymous said...: I guess after this ordeal you'd be more accepting towards Morrison's Superman and Azzarello's Wonder Woman
They at least practice some self-restraint

also, I must give this thing at least some credit
somehow, it manages to be a piece of right-wing propaganda, while at the same time being the ultimate left-wing revenge fantasy; January 17, 2012 at 11:10 AM
Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr said...: About Brother Jarkes question :

"...You're Captain Sake Mangusto, aren't you?"

No, i'm not.

Check the facts : he is a foreigner commentator from a possible future, i am an illegal alien trying to have a business on the United States southwestern underground community, he has long hair, i have short hair, he looks like a hippie wearing military gear, i am a self-made religious man in a suit, i need to wear glasses, he don't and to add the final nail is this controversial coffin i am FAT and Captain Sake is not - at least judging from that picture.

And that all i saying and nothing more about this.; January 17, 2012 at 1:08 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: "And Star Trek : Enterprise is a prime example, when I say „let it develop“.
From all seasons, season 4, with all its foreshadowing, was a lot better, than season 1 to 3. Some shows need time to find their footing, some shows find their audience spot-on. But some need time. I read, that the seasons 3 and 4 of the show “3rd rock from the sun” are regarded as “the classic ones” – not season 1 or season 2, but seasons 3 and 4."

Well, the thing to remember about the Enterprise example is that the only reason it started to GET good was because ratings plummetted to the point where they needed to bring in fresh talent and take risks.; January 17, 2012 at 2:55 PM
Dierna said...: For those wondering about Etta Candy being skinny in the pilot. Um where the heck have u been?? In the comics it's part of her storyline that she lost all the weight (course she was also bulemic for a bit..oi)! Etta's also married to Steve Trevor and is an Army Intelligence Officer.; January 17, 2012 at 3:23 PM
Jason said...: it was only the pilot, maybe the lasso would be revealed that it forced people to tell the truth but it didn't force them to talk.; January 17, 2012 at 4:09 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Linkara: "Well, the thing to remember about the Enterprise example is that the only reason it started to GET good was because ratings plummetted to the point where they needed to bring in fresh talent and take risks. "

You mean, if the ratings had not plummetted down, they would have kept that standard?
*sighs* Cal, you are an idiot. Of course, they would have - because as long as things work out, you don`t change them, because that would cost money.

*gives himself a headslap*
Damn.; January 17, 2012 at 4:14 PM
Jarkes said...: @Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr. (You might want to think about shortening that name):

Sorry for the mix-up. It's just that you guys both have a similar style of writing (the whole stream-of-consciousness, flitting back and forth between subjects thing, and the "opening and closing themes" bit).

Also, that bit about looking at this as an action comedy? ...There's nothing funny about TORTURING SOMEONE IN THE HOSPITAL BED THAT YOU PUT THEM IN. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S NOT NECESSARY.; January 17, 2012 at 4:17 PM
Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr said...: Dear Sister Dierna,

I can easily understand Etta Candy becaming skinny, i can go around with that no pun intended but for the love of God please explain to me and for the audience from what a hell did they get the idea that she should be black ? or african american whatever best fits.

I know that sound immensely racist and douchy but shoe-horn a character that way is not my ideal way to deal with fair ethnic treatment for the sake of cultural diversity.

Why not the role of Philipus instead or any other character ? I can re-imagine this show in several non-intentional comical ways like when Wonder Woman, or at this point Wrath Woman, tortures, kills and threats without concern but mischaracterizations are the unforgivable sin of every adaptation and i hate that unless i can make some fun about it and i can't make fun of african american Etta Candy because they left all good jokes for the sicko uber-empowered white chick, nothing was left for that sister to do and she is on the sane concerned and afraid side of the cast.

P.S.: Okay folks, PANTS TO BE DARKENED! And No Way Steve, same Creator different characters sharing the same multiverse and that's definitely the last time i issue that. And all things considered :

"NO PANTS AT ALL!!!BOOTIES BE FREE!!!"

After several further considerations this night last rites will be ministered by brother Eminem praying “Ass Like That”, because when you own an adult church you must be modern and open minded.

Amen.; January 17, 2012 at 4:20 PM
Sabre said...: As Linkara/Lewis said, Enterprise was forced to change, but even so it still killed Star Trek.

But the counter to that argument of letting bad shows grow is that some shows start off great and get better. Firefly, Burn Notice, Mythbusters, Supernatural, Starship Troopers: Roughnecks and Stargate SG1 are great examples. Why should a terrible show be given the chance to become ok, or maybe even good, over a good show given the chance to become a classic?

Again, this isn't an attack on your prefferences, but the job of a pilot is to sell the show and to see if an idea can be successfully realised within budget. If the pitch was "Bring Wonder Woman back to TV" then if failed.; January 17, 2012 at 4:23 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Dierna: "For those wondering about Etta Candy being skinny in the pilot. Um where the heck have u been?? In the comics it's part of her storyline that she lost all the weight (course she was also bulemic for a bit..oi)! Etta's also married to Steve Trevor and is an Army Intelligence Officer. "

Yeah, I read that part in "Rise of the Olympian", where Diana Prince has a boyfriend (or just a relationship based upon sex - I dunno) with that other Agent guy of hers... Tom Tresser.
Was Etta killed in that comic? I just saw her wrapped in the lasso, with eyes rolled up and either in coma or dead.

And by the way - that Tresser-guy is sometimes IN hospital, and then out of it again. They could have needed some continuity there.

Greets

Cal; January 17, 2012 at 5:02 PM
Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr said...: Dear Brother or Sister Jarkes, sorry i am honestly clueless about.

My name makes homage to three of the greatest north american religious persons of all time at least in the past 20th Century : they are Reverend Cleophus James, Reverend James "Jim" Jones and Reverend Martin Luther King Junior but since my first name is Richard you can call me Reverend "Dick" for short.

No need for apologizes, as ways the Lord work through mysterious ways.

And i bet you are too young to know about classic mid-80's television series Sledge Hammer written, produced and created by Alan Spencer starring David Rasche as Inspector Sledge Hammer, that's a classic for the youth of today that deserves a closer look.

That show made for torture what Leslie Nielsen made for comedy and that's something to be praised for generations to come, after all everything can be funny when you are a sadist. And by the love of Nick Cage's hair piece Alleluia to that.

Also don't worry about the pain and suffering coming from the flesh, the deeps of Hell will be a lot worst for those who live their lives on sin.

And thank you Linkara for take the words of Jesus so literally : it's better your comic books burn atop the forth wall than the soul of your wicked authors live in eternal damnation without relief at the deeps of Hell.

Keep the good work Sir, you made the Lord proud.

Ginger Dear, one special prayer for Mister Linkara please, Joe Cocker - You can leave you hat on, if you don't mind darling he deserves the best.; January 17, 2012 at 6:34 PM
Alex Stritar said...: Wait, Etta Candy was fat in the comics? I guess her and Amanda Waller went to the same gym for their live action debutes.; January 17, 2012 at 10:36 PM
Steve said...: @Sabre: Really, Firefly encapsulates the ENTIRE argument right there. Why Enterprise got chance after chance while it mired in abysmal failure, while Firefly got shitcanned for not being able to deal with executive meddling, is an utter embarrassment to humanity. Hell, just look at Voyager vs B5: JMS had the rug pulled out from under him so many times and he had to scramble to deal with the possibility of cancellation, but Berman and Braga were considered to be UNTOUCHABLE POWER BROKERS of scifi? WTF, world?

...Come to think of it, why DIDN'T Wonder Woman make it to show? It sucked to high heaven, but that didn't stop the aforementioned Voyager, and Wonder Woman's even MORE iconic! I guess execs have evolved over the years. XP

@The Good Reverend: Trust me, friend, your characters aren't the problem. XP; January 17, 2012 at 11:34 PM
trent bowie said...: Where do I start? This review was spot on. It was totally worth suffering through the clips for the reactions. I am so glad this never made it to air.

This Wonder Woman is an utter sociopath. Are you sure that's not Artemis taking on Diana's form with help with some (godly) magic? Or is Maxwell Lord pulling the strings behind the scenes?

Either way, I call her Crazy Sue.; January 18, 2012 at 1:43 AM
JB said...: What a misguided adaptation ! And the murder of the security guard is the lowest point.
Yes, Wonder Woman is more likely to kill than Superman or Batman, but when she did kill a human (not even a normal human, mind you, but a meta), it WAS a big deal in the comic ! The public was horrified, even her teammates, who knew the motivation for the execution of Max Lord, lost trust in her, and she goes on trial for her action.
Anyway, what threat was the security guard posing? He was "just" shooting at her : it's an actual game for the amazons to deflect bullets !; January 18, 2012 at 2:35 AM
Rev. Richard Cleophus James Jones Jr said...: Oh Brother Steve, if you really knew it what torments my soul that would make David E. Kelley's Wonder Woman look like Shakespeare but somebody will point for me that's just an hyperbole.

About Brother Trent Bowie comment that's the kind of solution that could probably have saved this tv series if had received the green light. Maxwell Lord pulling the strings behind the scenes is a easy way out of that mess. But as we already know David E. Kelley is absolutely clueless about comic books continuity or even Wonder Woman most recent past.

Anybody saw the original script for this pilot ? If you take a closer look you will see "STUDIO INTERFERENCE" screaming all over the place, the story had a completely different tone but somebody else decide she need to look more badass so all action scenes are basically forced through the script down Kelley's throat literally because he is not an action writer, his safety zone is limited to drama and awkward silly comedy.

Even the most recent Harry's Law episode doesn't exploit anything superhero related when a woman dressed like Wonder Woman is prosecuted for practicing vigilante justice.

Lots of opportunities had been lost and that's something to be worried about.

Call the girls Johnny, tell them to perform something to warm my heart, the rain made me a little bit down today.

Tina Turner - Goldeneye as performed by the Womenist Exotic Dancing Sincronized Swimming Team a.k.a. "The Machete Beavers".

GO BEAVERS!!!

P.S.: Captain Sake returns from vacation next Friday.; January 18, 2012 at 12:03 PM
Katherine said...: @CaptainCalvinCat:

Yes, but as Linkara pointed out, it was dumb of her to make such a strong accusation in public and then admit immediately afterwards that she doesn’t have proof. Way to make yourself look credible, WWINO.

/Erm… she didn`t use them. She spoke at the guard, tried to use them (which is a logical choice – I mean, if you KNOW how your character is viewed, you can toy with that. “You live freely if you haven't a reputation to lose.“)/

Yes, she did use them. Okay, maybe not *literally* her breasts, but the point is that she still used her body and sex appeal to get what she wanted. No, it is not a “logical choice,” at least not for Wonder Woman. Maybe for characters like Catwoman and Poison Ivy, who are examples of the femme fatale type. But Wonder Woman is not supposed to be a femme fatale. She *does* have a reputation to lose, that of a strong and principled superheroine who does not *need* to resort to such tactics. But of course, the writers completely dispensed of that reputation the instant they had her carelessly disregard the law and assault a suspect.

The problem is that the writers were trying to have it both ways. They had her indignantly protest a sexualized depiction of herself in order to make her seem empowered, but then shot themselves in the foot by having her stoop to one of the most common and sexist stereotypes of women: wily seductresses who have to use their “feminine wiles” to get what they want. It’s funny how Spiderman and Superman never have to flirt with random women in order to find out information or get to an enemy. But somehow Wonder Woman, the Spirit of Truth, isn’t above trying to seduce people in order to get what she wants.; January 18, 2012 at 8:15 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Katherine:

Let’s be fair, here.
She didn`t use them, because it apparently didn`t work. She TRIED to use them, which does nothing to your blame – and of course you are right. It is sexist. But a common thing, when you watch the other stories of David E. Kelley. In Boston Legal, Shirley Schmidt knows, how to get either Alan Shore or Danny Crane to do her bidding.

By the way, the topic sexism: You know, what I find funny. That the two characters, which are obviously having their bodys shown the most, are in my humble opinion never the less not sexist. Seven of Nine and Number Six of Battlestar Galactica. Both of them running around in skin-tight clothes or the lack of those, but are extremely competent. Seven saves the ship often and Six evolved from a de facto evil robot seductress to a full grown and complete cylon being. ^^

“But somehow Wonder Woman, the Spirit of Truth, isn’t above trying to seduce people in order to get what she wants.”
Erm… well, the last wondy-comic I read (it was the often quoted “Rise of the olympian”, written by Gail Simone), Tom Tresser tried to stop Wondy, after she was hurt by Genocide, to go and confront her again. She reacted the following way.
She grabbed him, kissed him hard and with that everything was forgiven and forgotten.
Writes Gail Simone.

The same Gail Simone, who ought to be a damn good authoress.
Never the less, the same Gail Simone lets Huntress use her body to get informations. (as can be seen in ‘Birds of Prey’ “Of like minds” either part 3 or part 4.)
Okay, granted, Birds of Prey is another series and Huntress another character, but, “the Spirit of Truth” uses her body, too, and she is sexist, too.

In the quoted comic “Rise of the olympian”, Tom Tresser talks to her, wearing one of those clothes you get in hospital. He turns around and goes away.
Some woman (I think, she is a doctor or something), asks Wonder Woman, if she wants to tell her boyfriend, that his hospital-clothes are wide open on his behind. Wondy – spirit of truth – says “Maybe later.”
The reaction of the woman: “I second that.”

“But somehow Wonder Woman, the Spirit of Truth, isn’t above trying to seduce people in order to get what she wants.”
So – no – the spirit of truth is as human as all of us.
When all other methods of getting information fail, she uses her body.
That is not bad, quite the contrary, that makes her someone I could take seriously. A person with all her flaws, is someone I can take more seriously, than the child-of-clay she should be.
Don`t get me wrong, I liked the wonder woman cartoon-movie, (you can see the “Wonder Woman dressing up sequence” on this homepage when coming to the ‘secret origin month’, and I am waiting if Linkara makes a review of said movie. I know, that The last angry geek did one.) but I like to have my characters with flaws.

Wondy in this installment had them.
There are several problems with it – the movie was bad, like I said and never said it wasn`t – but I think, they could have circumvented the fans rage with just one sentence: “This isn`t your parents wonder woman”.
Honestly, it worked with star trek, where Movie XI betrayed a lot of the source-material, made things younger, more hip, although they didn`t make any sense, made it more sexy (the Uhura-undressing-sequence and Kirk having sex with Gaila [the orion girl]) but most of the fans said “Well, JJ Abrams said, it wouldn`t be our fathers star Trek…. So I guess it is okay.”

If David E. Kelley had said “This isn’t your fathers Wonder Woman” maybe they had said “Ah, a complete reboot – well, lets give it a shot.”

Just a question - do you watch Stargate? Do you like the character of Sam Carter as a self-empowered female, which she really is?
But then, I see "Hathor" again and am headscratching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTcNsyqnOzE

Greets

Cal

Greets

Cal; January 19, 2012 at 3:57 AM
Kevin Holsinger said...: Holy crap.

If this has been an original superheroine, in a show that meant to be a twisted mirror on what happens when we take superhero vigilantism and apply it to the real world, I'd have said, "Bravo." Hell, I sided with Iron Man during Marvel's Civil War because I think the vigilante superhero doesn't really work anymore.

But dude, seriously. Even media-people who defended the torturers of Abu Ghraib back in the day NEVER had the balls to reference that place as a good thing.

How did a guy who wrote legal dramas come up with this approach?

Otherwise, great review.; January 19, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Anonymous said...: 1) Even though I didn't see it in full I now see why they didn't want to air it. I think it would've been better for them to have made up a female vigilante instead of using Wonder Woman. That way it would tick off a lot less people.

2) If you say "Pants to be darkened" anytime outside of this video I will literally LMAO.; January 19, 2012 at 6:38 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: "2) If you say "Pants to be darkened" anytime outside of this video I will literally LMAO."

If you're LITERALLY laughing your ass off, I think you need to go see a doctor about that. XD; January 19, 2012 at 6:40 PM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Dear CaptainCalvinCat

I can't avoid to ask : what's the difference between "a de facto evil robot seductress" and "a full grown and complete female cylon being" ?

And about Kevin Holsinger comment back on 2001 Roger Corman and the Sci Fi Channel presented to us a sort of "meant to be a twisted mirror on what happens when we take superhero vigilantism and apply it to the real world" called Black Scorpion and that show succeeded to have at least one complete season.

Was greasy, cheesy and stylish as hell and i wish that had at least one more season.

Oh Hollywood, you know, your audiences are not that hard to please. Take Michael Bay and George Lucas as an example and i am sure you can figure out at least one six digits Wonder Woman movie above a hundred million dollars profits.

I promise to buy it if you don't made it in 3D.

End Credits AC DC - Thunderstruck; January 19, 2012 at 11:23 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Captain Sake - today not here as a preacher? ^^

The difference? Okay – the difference would be that an evil demon seductress is one PART of a female character. When other parts come to that – in case of Number 6, that she is spiritual, she is clever and she has the ability to change her mind, can feel emotions and ends up not being reduced to her sexy outward appearance, then she is a complete human being (in that case: a cylon being).

Take Poison Ivy from the “Gotham-City-Sirens”-Comics, for example. Oh, she seduces people, but, she has a backstory, has a group, with whom she hangs out, even shows compassion and mercy… in short, she is a character with edges and not just “the sexy woman”.

And I feel, that it could have worked with Wonder Woman, if it had been written appropriately.

Greets

Cal; January 20, 2012 at 3:38 AM
Kevin Holsinger said...: Good morning, Captain Magnus (January 19, 2012 11:23 PM).

I vaguely recall Black Scorpion. Though, I think I only watched the pilot(?) on Showtime before it became an actual series.

However, I'll check that out later. So thanks for the info.; January 20, 2012 at 3:46 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Dear CaptainCalvinCat,

the preacher is another guy, apparently somehow we share the same Creator despite the fact i don't believe in god and if you take a closer look you will figured out something stinking on his comments, something not exactly religious in the most traditional sense but lets not give any spoilers, he provides a decent and necessary service for those in need for prayers with a lot more physical and feminine expression.

Your explanation is good enough for me, a little bit too much elaborated but satisfactory.

I still have preferences for femme fatales made of flesh, bones and scantly clad outfits like those church ladies i visited and paid a few tributes later in exchange for a few colorful prayers for my probably non-existent soul, nothing can be said against honest labor.

And yet the Wonder Woman Pilot stinks for a really dry cheese and still is the kind of cheesy that could be improved, after all some good cheeses stinks after a few time but still tastes a lot of good.

You are European right ? Probably knows better.

Dear Kevin Holsinger

is "Mangusto", not "Magnus", please check the link for a full name, rank and forged serial number after join what remain of the Maquis and be recruited by Section 31 to end stucked in the 21st Century in the barbaric age of nonsensical fight to protect copyright.

Things settle down and fixed i think you gonna love Black Scorpion because is like Adam West & Burt Ward's Batman make it like a soft porn adventure, if was a cartoon series it would be just like Batman or Superman animated series, is the kind of thing you must take for what it is : cheesy superheroine exploitation and nothing else, it's not for acid critics because their head have a tendency to explode.

Well, Happy Sci FriDay for you all and Cheers, responsible ones, remembers the Penguins motto : "NEVER DRINK ALONE !"

AC/DC-Who Made Who
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msmzXBLVJEg; January 20, 2012 at 8:48 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Sake:
“Your explanation is good enough for me, a little bit too much elaborated but satisfactory.”
Whatever works… the important part is, that it works, not if it is TOO elaborated.

You are right, the Wonder Woman Pilot is bad, but not insalvable. I think, if someone would give it a fair chance, put a few more scenes into the movie, which explains, WHY Diana is that aggressive and that kind of stuff, and leaves out some of the really awkward scenes – like her torturing that guy – then it really could work.

„You are European right ? Probably knows better.”
Yes, I am European, but that doesn’t mean, that I know better.; January 20, 2012 at 6:23 PM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Don't be silly Calvin, Europe has one of the finest cuisines as well the oldest cheese manufactures, i know you know better.

The whip of truth, the torture, the violence, to me everything scream call Frank Miller to fix and justified this mess, nobody else can do it - or be blamed for it - better than him. And of course i will be on the side of the board that will praise him as usual.

"SHAME TO BE DARKENED !"; January 20, 2012 at 7:50 PM
Schedel said...: I've just had surgery on my nose, and smiling makes my face hurt a LOT. I should NOT have watched this, it was hilarious! Although, to be honest, I think I may be the only person on earth who loved the WW pilot...; January 21, 2012 at 12:55 AM
Kevin Holsinger said...: Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto,

D'oh! Sorry about messing up the name, sir. Should've just copied and pasted your name like I did this time.

On an unrelated note, and to nobody in particular, am I the only person who has to send my comments at least three times before they go through? I'm NOT mistyping the word-verification. regardless of what the red text tells me.; January 21, 2012 at 6:46 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: No problem Kevin, is understandable.

And about your problem i don't know. Its Saturday, probably early in the morning where ever the real life Lewis Lovhaug is at this moment and he probably deserves a break in case of a mandatory after friday night hangover, who knows ?

I'm doing my best to avoid happy triggering posting several times a day during the week but lets face it : most of the time this place is a desert town after crop season so we are the only gunslingers hanging around in a silent movie where the director must approve all black&white cards and its not his fault, he have better things to do than baby sitting his fans every 15 minutes.

Lewis Lovhaug is a very busy man coming from a very tight schedule season, if you post the same thing three times he will know and approved at least one, if was a blogger glitch he will fixed, in my case i have the need to tone down my posts sometimes but i'm starting to guess he just don't have time to read right now and that why it takes so much time to see posted.

Is 11:45AM at my location and that makes what ? 8AM at his ? Let him stretch a nap.

At the time this post goes through i will probably taking a nap for my self.

Have a happy meal.; January 21, 2012 at 7:46 AM
--Awood said...: PANTS TO BE DARKENED; January 21, 2012 at 1:47 PM
Le Messor said...: Linkara - joke fail. You (well, whoever scripted this) have Film Brain answering an 'Et tu, Brute' reference with 'I don't speak French'.
While the original was definitely Latin (which is the joke, I think), those words mean pretty much the same thing in French as in Latin. :)

Alex Stritar -
Etta Candy. Re-read that name.
Yep, she was fat.
But, Amanda Waller wasn't skinny in her live-action debut - she was in Smallville before she was in Green Lantern, and was fairly heavy there.

Kyle -
"Am I the only one who knew which Far Side JO was reading due to her line?"
Nope. I knew which cartoon it was before they even mentioned Gary Larsen. I imagine a lot of people did.

August M. -
I'm going with a little of both.; January 21, 2012 at 2:11 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Captain Sake:

I don`t know better, because I just don`t like cheese. Well, except for on Pizza or Lasagna.
But – just a question.
Torture, violence, end justify the means… did Frank Miller wrote the “Dark Knight”-Movie?
With things like “He is not the hero, that the city wants to have, but the hero, the city needs”?

Miller, while most of his works are not that good, had made things, I enjoy. Stuff happens.
First: The Spirit = a laugh-fest… just don´t take it seriously.
Second: The Terminator-Robocop-Comic

@ Schedel: The movie is not that bad as people say, that it is.

All in all, one can say, that there are definitely worse films out there. And I tell you, what these are, imho.

Hulk – all of the installments, from the crappy TV-Show with Lou Ferrigno, over the three movies in the nineties (what would 90’s-Kid say to them?) to both trials from Ang Lee and whoever wrote the second one… it is just… ugh.

And back to Wondy:

I honestly don`t know, where the problem is.
Linkara said: “How can you mess that up. Spirit of truth, it is simple.”
From a writers perspective said: “no, it isnt.”

What sould be simple about that? How can one write a story about “the spirit of truth” with such an abstract concept as “spirit of truth”? I most sincerely have my problems with that.
What would be a good place to go?
Well, one could read comic-books, based on her character, and there one could grab the books of Gail Simone.
Except for the already pointed out sexism-thingie.

There are other things, which, I am sure, would only work, if the people behind the series would be really die-hard-wonder-woman-fans and would say: “Okay, we want to make the movie as close to the source material as possible.”
Problem is, if really die-hard-wondy-fans make the movie, chances are, that you lose the rest of the audience, so, compromises have to be made. And – like I said – the author of this movie is the same guy, that brought us such cynical classics as Boston Legal or Ally McBeal – so I think, that he didn’t mean it seriously. It is meant to be not taken that way.

to be continued in post 2.; January 21, 2012 at 5:33 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Continuation from post 1

By the way „leMessor“
Linkara - joke fail. You (well, whoever scripted this) have Film Brain answering an 'Et tu, Brute' reference with 'I don't speak French'. While the original was definitely Latin (which is the joke, I think), those words mean pretty much the same thing in French as in Latin. :)

And exactly that is the joke. It is the same thing, as if I would say in germany something english like… “Self-Fulfilling Prophicy” and my counterpart said “I don`t speak spanish”.
That is the whole joke is about. Ignorance or non-knowledge about the source of that language.

I talked to a friend of mine about the whole wonder-woman-movie-contreversy on the train, we took today to drive home: He was the same opinion as me. Movie was good – not overwhelmingly, but it could have needed a bit more time and it could have needed a complete season. Because it could have been the wondy of a new and fresh generation.

Lets have a look at the old series and then ask ourselves, “Could that be working today”
I most surely doubt that.
It is not “spirit of truth” and “that easy”. You need to interest your audience, but it cannot be interested at something – or seen with a unbiased view – if people make big deals about little things.

Like the “wondy wears trousers now” part… So what? Why does one have to make such a big deal about that? It is a new style, so deal with it. It is like in BSG, when they yammered about the fact, that Starbuck was a woman. Boo-hoo-frakking-hoo.

“Wonder Woman don`t use torture” or “that is not Wonder Woman, that is a crazy person”.
Erm, no, it is Wonder Woman… I mean – you are watching a movie, called Wonder Woman, so chances are high, that you are actually watching Wonder Woman.
“It is not my Wonder Woman” – that would be a sentence, I could accept.

Fact is: It could have worked.
And no, I don’t mean, that we all should swallow all shit, as long as it is produced. And of course, we are allowed to say, what we didn`t like, but don’t write in absolutes, because there are persons out there, who don’t have an own oppinion, and then say “See, the majority says, that the new Wonder Woman movie is shit. So it has to be shit.”
No, it hasn’t.

It is just the oppinion of the majority. I for my part did like the movie. But then I failed to see the point, why “the Avengers” with Ralph Fiennes, Swarmed or Sumuru should have been bad.

Greets

Cal; January 21, 2012 at 5:33 PM
Le Messor said...: @CalvinCat -
"And exactly that is the joke. It is the same thing, as if I would say in germany something english like… “Self-Fulfilling Prophicy” and my counterpart said “I don`t speak spanish”."
Yep, I understand the point of the joke. The problem is: 'Self-fulfilling prophecy' in German is (using Babel Fish) : "Selbst-befriedigende Prophezeiung"
and Spanish (still Babel fish) :
"profecía uno mismo-satisfaciente"
Completely different. Your counterpart wouldn't understand that phrase even if he did speak Spanish. The joke works.

In the video example, however:
'And you, Brutus?' (roughly) in Latin would be:
'Et tu, Brute?'
And in French would be:
'Et tu, Brute?'
- So, if Film Brain did speak French, he would understand the phrase.
That joke didn't work for me.; January 22, 2012 at 3:33 AM
Le Messor said...: @Kevin Holsinger -

"On an unrelated note, and to nobody in particular, am I the only person who has to send my comments at least three times before they go through? I'm NOT mistyping the word-verification. regardless of what the red text tells me."

It's not just you.
I don't know how many times poor Linkara has to read each of my posts!; January 22, 2012 at 3:44 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Dear CaptainCalvinCat,

I Hate when you make me taste my own poison but i blame my self, most recently i am the one doing long winded comments that became long streams of consciousness and after i made this statement i don't doubt Lewis will be at least smiling and saying : "Revenge is mine!"

You achieve a masters degree my friend. Cheers !

About the you know better issue : that was a joke, i was just stirring up your pot a little bit.

Miller didn't write Christopher Nolan movies but the inspiration is there, did you saw the Batman Year One cartoon they made it recently ?

After watching that - for free by the way, WB/DC marketing, sales department and distribution outside the USNA SUCKS at epic proportions - i hope Lewis don't mind if i tip my hat to my "pirate" friends who did all the work of Warner Brothers for free without any charges so they could ruined their own operation with dignity and adding all missed subtitles, the nicest righteous criminals whom i will never have the change to say thank you personally.

And they made Wonder Woman Pilot too, Good job boys and girls.

Back to David E. Kelley, i blame the "studio interference" factor on the script, they want to made her look like a badass without having any clue about what a badass character really is so all "so shocking" sequences were made forced through the script, is David E. Kelley trying to do a cop show with all legal advises throw out at the window with is not exactly wrong for characters with few to no legal support to being with, on real life Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are all the same for the audience.

They are superpowered vigilantes with the ability to do what the police and the legal system aren't and should not be allowed to do without following the due process and that basically made they playing as Gods, sometimes revengeful ones striking holy terror in the criminals hearts and minds.

Frankly to be darkened !

And i lost my self trying to follow your pace buddy.

Commenting Le Messor post about Kevin's problem, my best guess for your postings having problems is probably the same as my own problems : Lewis applying "moderation" to the comments section.

That why this post will have three versions, censored, uncensored and fancy, but only two will be submit to trial. You can read the other ones on my own blog where the comments section is non-moderated, non-regulated, uncensored and probably should be rated NSFW according to decorum standards.

Not that i really expect to receive spambots and hate mail just because my stats bar says i am big in Mother Russia and Canada, thanks great white north for your concern.

And i agree with Le Messor, if you have to explained then the joke isn't funny anymore.

I wish to write a part 2 Calvin but i won't, i am not a long distance runner, i am a cross country runner so i catch up with you in the next turn or maybe you finally accept my invitation and come to see me at my blog.

Leave further comments there, everybody is welcome including all non-english speakers and people with big mouths.

This End Credits goes for my Preacher wherever he is :

End Credits Counting Crows - Mr Jones; January 22, 2012 at 6:13 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: I dont speak spanish, but, I speak german, and „Self-Fulfilling Prophicy“ is „Selbst-erfüllende Prophezeihung“, not „selbst-befriedigende Prophezeihung“, weil „selbst-befriedigend“ is something… erm… completely different, and I highly doubt, that prophicys can do… that.
(selbstbefriedigend means masturbatory)

Greets

Cal; January 22, 2012 at 7:18 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Sake, I had a look at your blog.

“Miller didn't write Christopher Nolan movies but the inspiration is there, did you saw the Batman Year One cartoon they made it recently ?”
Yeap, I ordered it and was a bit flabbergasted at Catwoman being a prostitute, but – as Film Brain ( or was it Linkara?) – put it: Miller views all Women as whores.
Funny little coincidence, I watched the “making of the comic” of “Elektra” today, which was a child brain of Miller. Here, he doesn’t have his “all women are whores” attitude.
But yeah, I watched “year one” – I bought it for 12,99 Euro – and it was… meh. Mediocre, at best. Although I liked the name of Detective Essen, which is 1) a town in germany and 2) eating in german. I always laugh at such things. And in especially, when the town and its townspeople are portrayed a bit medieval, although it should happen in todays Germany. Either it is medieval, or its bavaria, which is a part of Germany, but not the entire country has good views at the alpes. ^^

Okay, in Paris, from every window you can see la tour eiffel… that’s funny, too.

“Back to David E. Kelley, i blame the "studio interference" factor on the script, they want to made her look like a badass without having any clue about what a badass character really is so all "so shocking" sequences were made forced through the script, is David E. Kelley trying to do a cop show with all legal advises throw out at the window with is not exactly wrong for characters with few to no legal support to being with, on real life Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman are all the same for the audience.”

Sake? You lost me there, buddy. I don`t understand, what you are trying to tell me.
But I can try.
Okay – so you are trying to say, that there was “studio interference” on the script. They wanted her to be badass – and didn’t know how to do so. David E. Kelley tried to do a cop-show and about legal advises etc. and he wanted to do that on Wonder Woman. Do I get that right?
Okay – I am honest: I would have fucking watched the hell out of that show, if they had done that. If they had made – say – a Boston Legal sequel, with all those superhero characters, who have a real job and had thrown Wondy in there – disappointed from law system, and hence going vigillante – I had watched the hell out of that show.
I mean – think of the possibilities.
Imagine the scenery.
We are on court.
In one corner:
Matt Murdoc and Diana of Thermiscyra, trying to get the company down, which had caused that dude from the beginning of the pilot, to get eye-bleed.
In the other corner: Alan Shore with that woman, whom belonged the company.
And then the battle begins – razor-sharp wit, brilliantly-formulated statements, at first, Matt has the upper hand, but in the end Alan wins (it is Alan shore, who puts rabbits out of his hat, for hobby).
Diana is angry and extremely disappointed in the law-system and vows to get revenge and becoming a vigillante.
THAT would have been a pilot, I would have liked to see. And then, we of course had applauded along with the employees of Thermiscyra-technologies, because we had seen, that wondy was in the right.
I would have watched the hell out of that show!

Just my two Cents.

Greets

Cal; January 22, 2012 at 4:26 PM
Anonymous said...: I thought this was the funniest crossover since that one with the Cinema Snob for Bimbos B.C.

"Pants to be darkened!" is truly the new "I am a MAN!".; January 22, 2012 at 9:21 PM
Le Messor said...: @CalvinCat -
Embarrassed emoticon.

As I said, I had to look the phrase up with Babel fish; I don't know nearly enough German or Spanish to translate the term myself.

(What did I say in Spanish?); January 23, 2012 at 3:50 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: If i may pass, please Mr LoL (that stand for Mister Lewis of Lovhaug).

Dear friend Triple C+ (that stands for CaptainCalvinCat, the plus is because you are a Captain)

The original script for the Wonder Woman Pilot leaked when they were still in pre-production and most of the baffling scenes are non-existent until they start to actually filming, that fact sustain my "studio interference" theory, somebody else think she should be portrait as "Jack Bauer with a Golden Whip", Wonder Woman became what Ally McBeal probably would be if she had magic guns and a death wish but no legal knowledge of the due process at all.

In fact i need to correct that : she has all knowledge about the due process but she choose to ignore it for the sake of "JUSTICE" !!!

You know, like screw all lawyers, cops and the justice system, that guy only survive the first assault because of the steroids holding his neck in place.

If this show was supposed to be Boston Legal with superheroes then your cast should be Matt Murdock and Jennifer Walters and i doubt the superhero part would work after the due process get screwed by technicalities, that would start to make people get out on the street and start real life vigilante justice.

You can't have the legal system and the vigilante system together in the same show.In my opinion that is "asking for trouble".

And about Miller's women : whores are people too and some women on Miller books are not even that. There are bitches, sluts, dools, bimbos, kick asses, etc... there is a wide variety of female archetypes and a few stereotypes, all branches of feminism are fairly represented on Frank Miller's comic books despite the fact some so called pro-feminists may be ashamed about them.

Quoting The Last Angry Geek (a.k.a. The LAGGING MAN because looks like takes forever for him to update on blip.tv ): "It's hard to be a man in a women's world."

Give a chance for Frank, after all Holy Terror was really good and there are women on it too.

Well, there we go again buddy.

To Be Continued in Part 2....; January 23, 2012 at 4:16 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: I will delay part 2 until you take a decent nap. I don't want to take another : "YOU...SHALL NOT...POST!" before my lunch break.

It's almost 9am here, what a hell are you doing awake at 5am in the morning if the blogger clock is correct ?

Have a nice day,

Sake.; January 23, 2012 at 4:54 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Sake:
C+

Oh GREAT *sighs* downrated by the fictional rating-agency of Sake, Hancock and Magusto.
I hope, I can get a bailout fund. What happened, I was a solid B at best!.... *grins* Sorry, a bit actual-happening politics has to be, too. ^^

“If this show was supposed to be Boston Legal with superheroes then your cast should be Matt Murdock and Jennifer Walters and i doubt the superhero part would work after the due process get screwed by technicalities, that would start to make people get out on the street and start real life vigilante justice.”

I said, that the show could have been in the Boston Legal universe… And when I watch Boston Legal, I find possibilities to attack the law-system. When Alan Shore uses his great retorics to get out a criminal, who really had done, what he supposed to have done, for example. And of course the superhero-vigilante-justice-part can work, if Daredevil and She-Hulk have the right opponents. That would be: Alan Shore, rethorical mastermind of Crane, Poole and Schmidt.

I pitched a friend the question: Who would win a rethorical debate: Matt Murdoc a.k.a. Daredevil or Alan Shore?
She didn’t need 2 Seconds and said: “Alan Shore, of Course”.
So, with people, who know how to worm around the issue and the law-system itself, the system cannot be perfect. Hence: People would be inclined to take the law in their own hands.

@ LeMessor:
I dunno, like I said, I don’t speak spanish. ^^

Greets

Cal; January 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Can't believe Lewis allowed my last comment to go through, that never was intended to be approved.

I am starting to think Lewis is outsourcing the moderation system, should i send my application to his e-mail ? I can easily work at his "odd labor shift" even considering i am absolutely against most if not all forms of moderation on the virtual space.

Sometimes you get the "My Space" idea too literally Mr LoL.

And about Mr Triple C+ a.k.a. CaptainCalvinCat, come on, i never consider you less than triple A following the ratings establish by Standards & Poors for Germans.

I missed Alan Shore and James Spader, remember what Boston Legal and The Practice was at the time made me question What The Fuck David E. Kelley was thinking when he decide to remake the Wonder Woman tv series.

Oh, in a short notice : that's not Part 2 yet.

Let me take a break, my real life job chew me to the bone.

See you later Mein Herr.; January 23, 2012 at 11:34 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Sake, I cannot help myself, but thinking the same thing. Maybe he is actually outsourcing it – or he sits there, and lets us make fools out of ourselves in front of the whole Internet? ^^

And… ugh… I cannot stress enough, how I just don’t like this whole “rating-agencies”-thing. Who asked them for their opinion, on whose payroll are they and who watches them? In essence: Who watches the watchers?

And to the “Boston Legal”-Thingie:
I have to say, just BECAUSE he was a genius at B.L. I wanted to know how he would do Wondy. I imagined just as many quirky characters in the show, just as fun, sarcastic, being about something etc…

But – then we got this…

And hence "Mein Herr" is way to easy, I close with "Tschüssikowski". ^^
(It means: Bye bye" ^^); January 23, 2012 at 8:10 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: I am approving all comments myself and haven't found anything particularly aggravating about Sake's recent posts.; January 24, 2012 at 1:07 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: I see, and you did block the Reverend most recent posts because.... ??? Blasphemy ? Science ? Anything ?; January 24, 2012 at 2:46 AM
Capt. Sake "Hancock" Mangusto said...: Dear CaptainCalvinCat

"Tschüssikowski" ??? It's that Deustch ? Because i don't speak Deustch or Russian either, i can speak Douche but people say i have a pretentious accent.

And i have a new theory about Mr. Lovhaug most recent behavior and Linkara coming back in character :

"LEWIS LOVHAUG IS IN LOVE !!!" DUM-DUM-DUUUUMMMM (add surprise, shock and awe here), that's the only explanation for why he has been so nice, so in focus with his own work, so... you know... pro-active.

Like Shakespeare in that Gwyneth Paltrow movie where that dude plays as Queen Elizabeth the first, i suspect he is Jude Law's father because they have the same first name.

And how Alan Shore would deal with Wonder Woman ? Check that movie "Secretary", is basically a Batman Begins prequel and if Maggie Gyllenhaal's character were for once called Diana you would achieve the same result.

Anyway, so i am a nice guy again after all, well i will probably became sentimental - back when i was old.

End Credits / Joan Jett & The Blackhearts - Bad Reputation

Captain Sake shall return on Part 2, unLewed cut.

8:00am; January 24, 2012 at 4:00 AM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: Oh for the love of crap, Sake...

There is no "return" of my character or me personally.

*I* have been writing reviews exactly the same way as I did now as I did when I started. My editing process has improved, my timing has improved, but none of these things were changes that occurred within the last few episodes.

If you don't like an episode, if you didn't think it was funny, just friggin' SAY THAT. I am tired of sparring with you about your posting style and I am tired of reading through your drivel about who I am. You don't post critiques, you post nonsense. And then you go and make a second account pretending to be someone else when it is most clearly you. You criticize what hours of the day I spend *MY* life and go off on random tangents instead of just posting like anyone else around here. You'll notice I don't penalize CalvinCat when he says he doesn't think the Wonder Woman pilot is all that bad. You know why? Because his posts make sense and he's simply expressing a dissenting opinion.

And you STILL post in comments that I have to reject because they have nothing to do with anything. I have warned you REPEATEDLY to knock it off. I have allowed posts through that I could barely get through just because I didn't feel like arguing. I have been exemplary in my patience and I have had enough.

Sake Mangusto, every post you make from now on will be rejected. Completely. You may continue to make posts at your discretion if you wish, but until such time as I feel you are capable of staying on topic, of actually articulating your thoughts be they in agreement or dissenting, nothing you post will go through. Yes, even though you have already used up previous chances, I am going to give you another one, but don't expect much leniency on this because I have reached my breaking point.

Good day.; January 24, 2012 at 4:31 AM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: And if anyone disagrees with me about this decision, you may say so and I will let them through. I am not unreasonable and I am not a tyrant around here.; January 24, 2012 at 4:34 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: "Tschüssikowski" ??? It's that Deustch ?

No, it is Deutsch. ^^ Hard to write the original word, with the letters in the right order, I can understand that. I couldn`t write the puerto rican name for the puerto-rican language either.

By the way, Lewis, is there such a word as “minnesotarian accent” or does one say “the accent of Minnesota”?

@ Lewis:
“There is no "return" of my character or me personally.”

Well, there are actually some hints, that the character of Linkara had a bit changed and now is “back” – and, honestly, you cannot blame him for thinking that, when you take into consideration the twists and changes the character went through. I mean – series-wise it would make a hell lot of sense, because of all the “pollo-is-downloaded-somewhere”-Stuff, that you probably will adress to in a few weeks.

If this month is completely unrelated to the overall plot, then Sake exaggerated, but plot-wise … okay, in reality, there is such thing as “own opinion”, and when I fail to find the Top 15-Jokes funny, or cannot agree with you on Wondy, that is my own opinion – maybe you should borrow the sentence from SFDebris “I am just a comic-reader with an oppinion”. ^^
No, I am kidding.

Lewis, I don’t want to beat around the bush – I think, you are doing a great job, and there might be some minor things, where I say “that is not my view”, but mostly it is.
There is one thing, I am a bit disappointed, although that is a too strong word… I think, the reviews of Blackest Night and Brightest Day would be a field day.
But, I know too, that these comics will be reviewed, IF they will be reviewed , in – dunno… at least not now.

But – I am looking forward at the new critique next Monday. Sounds like… something headscratching, eh? ^^

By the way, did you get my E-Mail?

Greets

Cal; January 24, 2012 at 4:58 AM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: "But – I am looking forward at the new critique next Monday. Sounds like… something headscratching, eh? ^^

By the way, did you get my E-Mail?"

I may have - I've been busy the last few weeks with several things, so I still haven't had the chance to read the 400+ e-mails sitting over the last few months.; January 24, 2012 at 5:01 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: 400 + ?
UGH!
That is a lot of zeroes and ones.
How can you keep that up? And that is no critique on your life-style, I just ask myself, how you can do that?

I mean, you make these vids, you read comics in preperation, you have a private-life (I guess), you have to read whatever bull...stuff Sake and I have been writing and approve or disapprove them and then you write a comic...

Hopefully you don't burnout.

Greets

Cal; January 24, 2012 at 5:07 AM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: Prioritizing!

Which is subsequently why there are 400+ e-mails sitting there instead of being answered. @_@; January 24, 2012 at 5:09 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: "Prioritizing!"

Okay, that is as simple, and as logical as it can get. ^^; January 24, 2012 at 5:13 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: And another doublepost, and again I am sorry:

I just rewatched the video and suddenly an Idea hit me. I cannot speak for all your readers, but I'd most certainly like to see the script of this vid, see, how it is structured, the whole "behind-the-scenes"-Thingie. that would be interesting. ^^

Greets

Cal; January 24, 2012 at 7:06 AM
Steve said...: "And if anyone disagrees with me about this decision, you may say so and I will let them through. I am not unreasonable and I am not a tyrant around here."

Oh, absolutely not, man! If I were in your place I would've banned him the very first time he said something meaningless and stupid. Keep that ban ironclad and airtight, and don't let his alternate personalities, like the corrupt preacher who apparently built a chruch on reviewing reviewers, slip in either. Because he isn't just annoying you, he's annoying the universe at large.; January 24, 2012 at 11:30 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Steve
" Because he isn't just annoying you, he's annoying the universe at large."

Please, not that absolute. I for my part find him rather amusing at best, but annoying at worst. So - maybe on could just ban his other "personaes", like that preacher-guy.

Sake himself - like I said - he sometimes can bring other discussion-stuff to the table.; January 24, 2012 at 12:32 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: Sake is still attempting to post and has deconstructed my argument, mentioning that earlier in the day that I had said I had not found anything TOO aggravating. I am still not letting his posts through, but I will respond to him since I know he is reading.

Just because it wasn't anything that ticked me off TOO much doesn't mean there wasn't stuff that was still annoying me. However, this pattern of behavior has to stop and I should have put an end to it a while ago. Sake, I know people who have quirky posting styles. One that comes to mind is Darkdriver from the Spoony forums, a guy who will sometimes post with an alternate female personality in his posts for humorous intent. It's not always the funniest, but he always keeps it on topic. Another that comes to mind is from Gail Simone's forum who will make posts always responds to people in the style of writing a letter saying, say, "Dear Linkara," but again, he always stays on topic.

Your posting style has frustrated me since day one, but I've given you plenty of leeway to change and warnings about the content of your posts. On occasion you will make THREE POSTS IN A ROW to say absolutely nothing. Did I overreact in this circumstance? Possibly. But frankly I have grown tired of giving warnings and I have decided to do something about it. If you think ill of me after this, that's perfectly fine, but as I said, I'm not allowing your posts through until I feel like you understand what was annoying me so much about them and take active steps to change the way you act around here. If you want tangible goals, allow me to set them:

1. One name, one commenter. You have repeatedly said that you will retreat from the computer for a period of time and not post in order to calm things down. You don't do so, often posting again in other comments sections right afterwards, and in the case of your latest one, you instead posted under a different identity. You want to say something? You say it as yourself.

2. Keep it on topic. An occasional joke post is fine, but there's humor that makes sense and then there's whatever the heck you were doing. You can say something snarky like "DC Comics cares more about its money than its characters? THIS IS TOTALLY SURPRISING!" Not: "Here is a fictional conversation I just made up between Frank Miller, Linkara, a DC Executive, and a chicken!"

3. Do not make up wild theories about why I like what I like or don't like or what is going on in my life. "You're doing better because clearly you're in love!" is nonsense. If I do well, it's because I wrote something funny and entertaining. If I didn't, then I tried something and I failed - it's as simple as that. I post and approve comments at what seem like odd hours to you because my sleep schedule is often all over the place, a consequence of working from home and deciding when I go to sleep and when I wake up and when I get work done. And even then, I am under no obligation to explain myself in that regard.

4. Do not hurl insults at people who disagree with you. Admittedly, some people around here are guilty of that, too, but if that happens, I don't want you to respond in kind - if a situation is getting bad *I* will deal with it.

I think that's a good place to start and we'll see how things go from there.; January 24, 2012 at 9:34 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: “On occasion you will make THREE POSTS IN A ROW to say absolutely nothing. Did I overreact in this circumstance?”
Nope, not in that case.

“An occasional joke post is fine, but there's humor that makes sense and then there's whatever the heck you were doing. You can say something snarky like "DC Comics cares more about its money than its characters? THIS IS TOTALLY SURPRISING!"“

I have to admit, I was a bit concerned, that my „Oh, I am rated down to Triple C Plus”-Joke would be a bit senseless, it was just something, that looked like a good opportunity there.
And I know, you are talking to Sake, but I know, that sometimes I tend to get a bit sidetracked myself. See the Fanfic-Discussion with Sake, when there was another topic.

Greets

Cal; January 25, 2012 at 7:38 AM
Mike Triplett said...: I think Linkara is trying to kill me...I choked on my dinner when he said "Hey lady Lois Lane called she said 'Grow a pair.'"

I am now going to be checking under my bed for robots, undead demon children and Willam Dafoe from this point on.; January 26, 2012 at 9:06 PM
Firefaerie81 said...: @CaptainCalvinCat

“I wouldn’t call it “stupidly accusing”, I would say, that she accuses out of her gut-feeling. If it wouldn’t be Wonder Woman, but a grey-haired “bastard” called Leroy Jethro Gibbs, one would say “Yes, he knows his stuff.”.”

The comparison is a little off. When Gibbs has a gut feeling, he investigates more to get proof. He doesn’t go out to the media and say “she did it, but I can’t prove it.” And yes, he does know his stuff. He has 20+ years of investigative experience with NCIS, plus time in the Marine Corps. I’d be surprised if he didn’t have an eye for what’s fishy. This woman, however, is in what, her twenties? Thirties, maybe? She couldn’t possibly have been Wonder Woman long enough to develop that keen of an instinct, especially when you add in the time it would take to train, develop the gear, and run a corporation. And she probably went to college, taking off even more time.

For that matter, even if she didn’t have evidence that would hold up in court, SOMETHING led her to believe that woman was guilty, and though most of my understanding of the law comes from crime dramas, she could’ve just told the reporters what she had.

“Erm… she didn`t use them. She spoke at the guard, tried to use them (which is a logical choice – I mean, if you KNOW how your character is viewed, you can toy with that. “You live freely if you haven't a reputation to lose.“) and when it didn`t work, she spoke to the Detective.”

But if you’re encouraging that view, you don’t have the right to complain about it. It’s a “cake and eat it, too” situation. Heck, the fact that it doesn’t work could imply that Wondy isn’t actually viewed that way, making all her complaining completely stupid(er).

Moving on, if this was really the story the writers wanted to tell, why did it need to be Wonder Woman? Why not some completely original vigilante? Heck, even a relatively mundane private investigator could pull this off. They didn’t need to completely derail an iconic character just to whack us over the head with the writer’s message.

All I’ve seen of this pilot is what’s shown in the review, but I saw no evidence that the Amazons even existed. If they did, wouldn’t they be more important to the first episode of a show about their princess? By the way, this interpretation kinda-sorta explains the “she had the lasso; she didn’t need torture” problem: no Amazons means no Greek Gods (and I believe there was some exposition about how the company created all her gear), no Gods means no magical lasso. Though that begs the question of why it’s still called the Lasso of Truth when it doesn’t seem to have any special properties.

And what was the point to her having TWO civilian identities? The “Diana Prince” one basically exists as the writer saying “See, I know that’s her civilian identity in the comics; don’t correct me.” Any scene of her and the cat is just pointless. If you want Wonder Woman to be a corporation-running, psychopath vigilante, then do that. Don’t throw in a “normal” identity that does nothing! As basically anything superhero related has taught us, juggling two identities is hard enough, giving her a third will just cause unnecessary complications.

Thank goodness this pilot never made it to air. Who knows what they’d have done with the rest of it.

By the way, excellent job on the review, Linkara, Nash, and Film Brain. You guys are really funny!; January 26, 2012 at 10:52 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Firefaerie81

Uh, you are right.
The comparison is a little off.

“Thank goodness this pilot never made it to air. Who knows what they’d have done with the rest of it.”

Although, that is a point, I`d like to disagree. In the end, what did we see? What can one see? I always told, that I am no friend of downloading movies from the internet, so – question bears, what exactly did we see. How did the complete movie look like? Was there ever a complete movie, or did the producers scrubbed the complete movie, when things hit the internet and the first people started to moan, how awful it would be looking?

I mean – the review is round about 30 minutes long, that means, we have – let’s calculate 10 Minutes for all the scenes with reviewers – 20 minutes worth of film. 20 minutes from a planned 90-minute-movie. That means, we have seen a bit more than 20 % of the movie. And if the movie never aired, I ask myself, how we actually know, that the story is crap.

Yeah, we saw crappy parts, and the chances are, that the rest of the movie is crap, I agree.
But I have to admit, at 20 % of the movie, I cannot say for sure, it is crap.
I mean, what did we see.
We saw that, which can be seen in the internet. The clip of the guy getting nosebleed, the clip of Wondy chasing that other guy, the clip of her fighting, etc. etc.
I grant, that those scenes were crap.
But I ask myself, could it be – just could there be the possibility – that there were more scenes? And… could it be that the thought, that the movie is crap is cemented in the users minds, because that one guy said it, that is – I don’t know, what his position is, he seems to be an expert in movies and whatnot.

Like I said, You could be right, I could be wrong, but I can only say of a movie, that it is crap, when I have seen it myself. Wondy I give the suspension of disbelieve, because the last installment of a live-action-show happened in the sixties and we all know, how batman looked in the sixties. Do I need to remember anyone of the Batusi?

It was sixties, it was camp, and that is okay, but it is a bit dated, today.
For all I know, the clips in the review show a peek in how crappy the movie could be, but do not really show prove, that all those other things were not stated.

But in one point, you are right. Film Brain, Nash and Linkara are really funny. They did a great review.

Greets

Cal; January 27, 2012 at 7:46 AM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: Okay, Calvin, I figured this was just a "lost in translation" kind of thing, but I think you have a misconception about this: it was NOT a movie.

This was a one-hour pilot EPISODE for a proposed TV series. This was supposed to be the first episode - i.e. the thing to try to convince people to come back the next week and keep watching the show.; January 27, 2012 at 7:53 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: Not really a misconception, but in germany, we say "pilotfilm", which are normally 2 hours long, with a liberal dowse of commercial-breaks. Without those those are 90 minutes long. Here it was just one hour, excluding commercial-break? 60 Minutes completely?
That would mean, if we calculate 20 minutes worth of film in your review, Linkara, that we have seen a third of the episode.

And if the episode was indeed just 45 Minutes long, then the twenty minutes were roughly about 50% of the episode and...

Okay, even my suspension of disbelieve ceases at one point.
I just remember SFDebris from the "Star Trek (2009)"-Review, and I try not to just make stuff up, to say "see, I was right"...

I see the flaws...
but I cannot help to think: "Damn, after all, there are just two things, I cannot make stuff up to make it better - the pipe-scene and the guy being tortured, although Wondy had her lasso there."

The other stuff, I can understand or at least say "Okay, that is a neat idea". The jet for example...

Or maybe, I am willing to give the movie a lot more leeway, because it got kicked in the ... stomach from start on.

The thing about the costume - I mean: what the frak?
Yeah, she is wearing trousers now. Where is the problem?

The jet?
Okay, it looks stupid, but - lets be fair here: An invisible jet or helicopter or whatever? Even if it was part of the original mythos - an invisible jet is more disturbing, than the I-Jet. Maybe, if they had said, that it would be vanishing in another space-time-continuum or other techno-babbely solution, because when the jet is invisible, chances are high, that other things would be flying against it. Meaning - if we have something travelling around in airspace, we should see it.

This is my opinion, of course - wouldn`t be surprised, if the Executives just wanted to have something cool - but: I think, story-wise such a craft would make more sense than an invisible plane.

The torture-sequence...
while you are right, that she had her lasso-of-truth there... even the lasso is some kind of torture.
Why?
Is the usage of "truth-serums" not torture? And the lasso is the same thing.
So, either way, she is torturing the bad guys. Okay- granted, it looks more bondage-y when the bad guy or the bad girl is wrapped up in a golden lasso and in the cartoon-movie it was pretty much played for laughs, but...

okay – I cannot tell it otherwise, but please, Linkara, hear me out.
In the fanfic, I am writing, I have a scene, in which a Starfleet-Captain uses a truth serum on another one, to find out if he is the fantomas-like villain, or not.
The XO of the Captain, who has been shot up with the truth serum, protests and says “That is not acceptable behaviour”.
To wich the other captain replies, that they have done it in the aftermath of the dominion-war to find out, if there are founders on earth, or not.
And if you are now appaled, and say “What the frakk is wrong with the federation”, it is just the reaction I count on. Because - it is always the same thing.
Breaking the other ones will, to get the information.

And Wonder Woman is no exception.
She – who is supposed to be the most honourable woman in the world – not only falls back on showing off her body (which was viewed as not good), but (and now comes my point) uses not intellect, compassion and stuff like that, to get the information out of the henchmen and henchwomen, by telling them, what could happen, if their bosses succeed in what they would do, but using a lasso, which compells them to tell the truth.

If she would be the spirit of truth, if she would be honourable, compassionate and stuff, she would use her intellect, to make those hench-persons SEE and UNDERSTAND, what is wrong with their behaviour.

Granted, in our world, in the reality, people lie for various reasons.
They lie, because they are afraid of the consequences, they lie, because they are evil etc.etc. etc. and hence, the means of getting people of telling us the truth.; January 27, 2012 at 9:10 AM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: If she would be the spirit of truth, if she would be honourable, compassionate and stuff, she would use her intellect, to make those hench-persons SEE and UNDERSTAND, what is wrong with their behaviour.

Granted, in our world, in the reality, people lie for various reasons.
They lie, because they are afraid of the consequences, they lie, because they are evil etc.etc. etc. and hence, the means of getting people of telling us the truth.

But those are comics. The point is, that these stories are told pretty much out of the heroes or in this case heroines perspective. The bad guys are bad – we don’t know why, but, … they are bad. Period. So – Wondy uses the lasso, to compel them, to tell her the truth.

It would be something different, if they hadn`t much time and stuff, but the one clip of the original show I saw, she cought the guy in the lasso, grabbed him and said “You have no other choice but to tell me what is going on.” Which is mind-torture, if we would put it in real-worlds context.

We don`t because, those are comics, right?
So, yeah, the torture-scene was bad. But given, that she does that, even in the campy tv-show, by using her lasso… well she just works with what she has to get the job done.

I don`t know, if that makes sense to you, Linkara, but in my mind, it makes.
Like I said, I could be wrong, and the thing is completely different, but…

It was just something, that came to my mind.

What does this have to do with the movie?
Well, actually, at one point, that you are right. The movie is bad.

The other point is, what is to expect?
How does one write a pilot-movie, without retelling the same story over and over again?
How does one write a pilot-movie without tons and tons of backstory dumped on us?
You said, Linkara: “Three words: Spirit of truth. Stay with it.”
Yes, a few things would be nice to know.
How did she end up in the USA, why does she own a company – and a rather big one – when did she become a crime-fighter…

“the thing to try to convince people to come back the next week and keep watching the show.”
I would have watched the show, because I most honestly cannot tell from one third of an episode, if the show would be bad or not.
And when they even let the Hulk rampagin senselessly through – what – 5 Seasons, they could have at least made a whole season out of it – or at least complete filming, editing and SHOWING the Wonder Woman Pilot.

Greets

Cal; January 27, 2012 at 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...: Great show Linkara. I don't watch the other guys that you crossed over with, but the whole group's interaction between your characters was very fun and well done. Hats off to all of you for the writing of this crossover. You guys nailed all the jokes, references, and commentary.

As someone who was STRONGLY opposed to David Kelley's version of Wonder Woman after reading the summary of his script, I've been meaning to watch this episode since it came out. But I wanted to the pilot for myself first, which I didn't do until today.

Yeah, David Kelley's pilot is just BAD. And not only for its deviations from what Wonder Woman always has been either. You guys were totally right about the pilot's disturbing vigilantism, which bordered on fascist. And why did she even need to torture that guy for information, right after showing him the LASSO OF TRUTH?

Besides its questionable morals and unfaithfulness to an iconic character, the show was just a drag. It had this dour, depressing tone throughout. Diana keeps complaining about what a lonely life she has, when SHE made the decision to dump her live-in boyfriend, who I refuse to call Steve Trevor. I don't know about you, but I like superheroes who are strong and uplifting. Self pity doesn't exactly fit in with that.

Not surprised this didn't get picked up. The marketing for this pilot would've been a disaster. You can't show it to older fans of the Lynda Carter series (who have kids by now), since the pilot is filled with violence and sexual language. Kids would not be drawn to a frightening "hero" who resorts to torture. Men would hate this for the chick flick cliches.

It doesn't seem like David Kelley had any idea who this show was supposed to be targeted toward.; January 28, 2012 at 7:38 PM
CaptainCalvinCat said...: @ Anonymus

Men would hate this for the chick flick cliches.

*waves his hand*

Erm... no, not all of them... I would ignore the cliches. ^^
And I don't know, why everyone would use the word "terrified". Okay, she tortured a guy for information and killed another one with a pipe... yes, that is awful, but in every news-cast, you see much more of it. And those events in the news-cast are real.

This is fiction.

Greets

Cal; January 29, 2012 at 6:44 AM
Anonymous said...: I heard Linkara swear!

My life is complete!; January 30, 2012 at 10:24 AM
Blues said...: This was incorrect and all sorts of wrong. But it is slightly better than I thought. When the image leaked out, the costume looked awful and the actress didn't seem to have the right face. that was mostly just one bad picture because it worked better even if they hadn't gotten to darkening the pants.

I also thought she'd bein her secret identity as an executive or work in television as a suit as oppose to owning and it being a multi media thing based on her. That's not what I like in my superheroes though I could see Booster Gold pulling it off but that was also better than I was expecting.; February 8, 2012 at 2:23 AM
Anonymous said...: ....I....I have no words, I mean...that was just a terrible pilot. I mean what were the script writers thinking? Did they even pick up a Wonder Woman comic book or work off what the producers told them?
But thank to the guys involved with the review who made it at least bearable with some witty banter and hilarious comments.; May 3, 2012 at 3:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Behold! Wonder Woman's teenage years!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwmx613bRFw; May 19, 2012 at 11:36 AM
Anonymous said...: what does pants to be darkened mean?; June 13, 2012 at 8:10 PM
Lewis Lovhaug said...: "what does pants to be darkened mean?"

It means the visual effects guys are going to change the color of her pants in that shot to make them darker.; June 13, 2012 at 9:23 PM
rekrings said...: I'm a newer fan just watching your older stuff. I'm surprised you didn't make a a joke about this being written by Frank Miller since Wonder Woman was acting like "Crazy Steve"; November 22, 2012 at 11:10 PM
Tzipporah Machlah Klapper said...: I'm upset that you swear in real life!!! :(
(Actually, I'm more upset that you posted a video where you used that word to your blog. Especially since it really wasn't a very funny blooper. Ah, well, probably it's mostly just us religious nuts who were offended.); February 11, 2013 at 9:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Wow... just wow.

This is a disturbing video, not the commentary/review, but the underlying material. I find it particularly disturbing that the underlying philosophies that make the titular character so despicable and nauseating are present to a large degree in our government -- moreso in recent years with things like Fast & Furious*, the ACA ruling**, Kelo***, Raich*** -- no accountability and a "trust us we're the good guy because we say we are, the proof is that we're us"-style [non-]reasoning.

In any case, thank you all for the entertaining review.

----------------------------------

* international gunrunning, violating international treaties, definitionally state-sponsored terrorism, and in F&F's case, implemented in such a way that the only plausible explanations are conspiracy or incompetence.

** where the supreme court 'rewrote' the law so that it would be 'Constitutional' and ruled on that law. (Turning 'fees' into 'taxes'.)

*** Utterly absurd and logically legal rulings justifying & expanding government overreach; in Kelo it was causing imaginary numbers ['projections'] to satisfy the 5th Amd requirements for eminent domain, in the Raich decision the court said that impacting non-existent markets with non-commerce (because those markets are illegal) is regulatable by congress under the commerce clause.; February 20, 2013 at 11:29 PM
TechSY730 said...: Wow, I'm not sure what is worse mis-characterization. "Bonkers Betty" from ASBAR, or this.

At least this had the decency to die before it became an actual released product.

And also, I'm not really put off by the swearing at the end. Partially because it was continuing the "joke" the blooper "introduced".; March 11, 2013 at 12:06 AM
Anonymous said...: Something is SERIOUSLY wrong when die hard superhero fans root for the villains.; July 22, 2013 at 1:51 PM
Dread Pirate Robin said...: Actually, this is a pretty accurate representation of the source material! Oh, I'm sorry, for a second, I mistook this for a Young Blood television movie.; February 19, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Atop the Fourth Wall

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Wonder Woman (2011)

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