Monday, August 12, 2013

The Culling, Part 1: Teen Titans Annual #1

 photo TT-Annual-1-Thumbnail_zps4090af41.jpg

Not many stories manage to fail so spectacularly in every department, but behold one of the finest examples of doing so.




NOTE: This episode was recorded with a new microphone. Please be patient as the bugs are worked out.

205 comments:

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Robert Willing said...

Hey Lewis, just to point out, I agree with you on the changes to Solctice BUT one CAN look at this as being her changing from Summer...to Winter! Bright, to dark! So, yeah, it actually makes some sense

Ian Yoxon said...

Artemis wasn't a new character for Young Justice. She was a villain called Tigress who joined the Injustice Society and had a relationship with Icicle. Shame she died in New 52 though.

LucasChad said...

Even though I liked both Tron movies, I liked the second one better. I guess maybe I enjoyed the more detailed world of the video game universe and the design choices were fascinating.

I haven't commented on Todd's OHW video on Rednex, but I always seem to prefer this version of Cotton Eye Joe over the version used in both videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLlLOb7GGC8

Anonymous said...

Actually, Artemis has been around in the DcU since 1987, using the name Tigress, which is the name she would use later in the Young Justice cartoon. Though I do get why you would be angry, seeing as how she had blonde hair in the comic, instead of black, and was kinda-sorta a good guy. Also, while I do understand that some people feel that Beast Boy's skin change is unwanted, I do feel that his original origin was, well, stupid, so connecting his powers to The Red was to me a welcome change.

Anonymous said...

Personally I'm sick of people accusing Hunger Games of ripping off Battle Royale.

History you don't care about ,but need to know in order to understand this: Suzanne Collins, the author, said that the inspiration was a new story about televised fight to the deaths that I think we're in the Middle East. And even then, is there any proof that she even HEARD of Battle Royale?

And also Battle Royale is not the future, it's a parallel timeline. But enough of my pointless rambling

Joshua Ford said...

Ugh, I can't believe I paid actual money for this stupid crossover. I actually dropped Teen Titans from my list around the time that Raven (my favorite Titan) was reintroduced for fear of seeing one of my favorite characters slaughtered by Scott Lobdell's mediocrity.

Also, you aren't missing much in skipping Trinity War, mostly because it is just the event BEFORE the big event (I like Geoff Johns, but I really hate his tendency to do that recently) and we're halfway through it now with barely anything happening. However, Forever Evil does sound like it'll be a rather interesting story (assuming it's done right) but...the number of tie-ins it's slated to have is OBSCENE, unless I'm grossly incorrect I do believe that ALL 52 Villain's Month titles are going to be counted as tie-ins to it. :(...apparently DC meant that their comics were for RICH 45 year olds.

David page said...

pretty sure hunger games was a popular book before it became a film....so the point of this (and avengers arena) ripping off the hunger games is valid

god....this was the series which ended my time with the titans since the geoff johns era....

think on that I stuck through the countless amazons attack and countdown crap...but this ended my time with the titans

Anonymous said...

Yay! More storylines! Always great to see how Jaeris is doing, and Will is a really good actor! I have many speculations as to how this story arc will turn out, but I'll keep them to myself, in the extremely likely event that I am 100% wrong about all of them. Feeling a possible Ghostbusters homage right now, but again, that's just speculation on the part of someone who has nothing better to do than come up with theories about your storylines.

As to the comic itself? Yeah, that was terrible. The New 52 DC reboot feels like the worst thing that has happened to comics since the Dark Age. Why the hell would any company want to throw out decades of stories and characters that were really well-received by the public and have played a major role in the universe created by the company? It makes so little sense, you have to wonder what was going through the heads of the DC execs at the time. And apparently the madness is spreading beyond just the comics department at DC, if "The Dark Knight Rises" and "Man of Steel" are any indication.

And I totally agree about Nightwing's costume. To me, the blue always represented Dick Grayson's desire to move out from the shadow of his mentor: by refusing the colors of the outfit he wore as Batman's sidekick, he was showing that he was his own man and his own hero. The only reason they changed it was so that all the former Robins could be in red, which looks cool in group shots, but makes them seem like extensions of Batman rather than unique characters of their own. Not helped by the fact the the Nightwing logo is now just Batman's logo. Seriously, what the hell, DC?

And speaking of Robins, no mention of killing off Damian Wayne just so they could make Batman seem younger? I know it's not quite as bad as Lian Harper's death, but it still pissed me off like crazy (mostly because Damian was my favorite Robin, hands down).

Kaingerc said...

SCOTT LOBDELL IS THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO DC COMICS!!!

i think he is trying to turn every 'hero' in the dc universe into an angry emo jerk(see Roy Harper,teen titans, superman...).

Just like the original titans brought you into comics, I got my start with the 'Young justice' series(Peter David is also my favorite writer, so sad x-factor is ending) and they remained my favorite team up until the reboot(i actually liked how Geoff Jones was writing them when they switched to the teen titans comic though i do get some of the criticisms about the book).

So it's pretty infuriating to me that everything i liked about these characters is pretty much gone(Tim's a dick(heh), Cassie is a frank miller character, Conner is amoral(steals from banks, doesn't care about people being killed...) and Bart is apparently some kind of escaped murderer from the future).

And like you mentioned, every single book Lobdell writes is overwritten to the point that it's filled with more caption boxes than art.

Btw, Artemis was not an original character in the Young justice show, before the reboot she was a justice society villain, daughter of 2 justice society villains herself (sportsmaster and tigress).

harmonicajay said...

YES! I admit that I am reading Trinity War and... it is different than I thought it would be. Fighting only lasts a couple of pages and the characters are acting... like themselves. I am enjoying JLA and I hate that I have to buy Justice League (hated that book from issue one, despite my favorite writer/hero writing it). I would put Aquaman on that list of recommendations since it is still holding up to me as a good book, though I can guess you may have a bias against Geoff Johns (understandable really).

Lobdell, to me, represents everything wrong with the Nu 52. He has no plans for the stories, he cares nothing for character and I honestly think he is a bit of a jerk for picking on Rob Liefeld (I actually feel sorry for Liefeld, how messed up is that?)

Good review. Cannot wait for the rest.

harmonicajay said...

Also, I despised the tron outfits. Thank Christ they got rid of them.

Joshua Ford said...

Oh, and if I may also offer a New 52 recommendation, Talon by James Tynion IV has actually been very solid and enjoyable (with a few occasional missteps), especially if you liked Snyder's Court of Owls arc in the Batman books, although it has taken a bit of a hit in the art department after Guillem March left.

Lizard-Man said...

I guess you're saving talking about Frankenstein for Longbox huh? Fine by me!

Also, yeah, we kill Artemis in the same book we introduce her in. It's almost like they didn't want to use her in the first place and that the only reason she's there is to get fans of the cartoon to read the book. You'd think they'd realise murdering her in the very first issue is not a good way to keep those new readers around.

It's a shame really that all the books I like are getting cancelled. At this point, I'll only have Batman and Suicide Squad left, and I'm only reading Suicide Squad because it has Harley Quinn in it, and I'll probably be dumping it anyway as soon Harley's Solo comes out.

(Although her twisted relationship with Deadshot is a nice change of pace at times.)

I dropped pretty much anything by Lobdell very fast otherwise. I really hated his portrayals of the characters I love and what he was doing just didn't interest me. But hey, I'm not DC's core market, so I understand. I'll check back in Twenty years and see if I start liking them again.

As for the Culling itself, ugh. Another Battle Royale load of crap trying to subsist off the recent success of the Hunger Games book. While the movie had come out only two months before, the fact was the book had been out for far longer and was just as popular. I think it's perfectly fair to say that they partially knew the film would at least be a success and planned the idea of the Culling around it. But I suppose it's a bit unfair to say they were trying to rip it off entirely.

I just don't get what the appeal of watching teenagers murder each other is for comic writers. Can't we have something awesome instead? Like a dinosaur invasion or giant robots or Zombie Nazis? Or how about just Dinosaur zombies fighting giant robots?

I guess what I'm asking is can DC Comics be fun again? Or do I have to keep buying Atomic Robo and Deadpool to get that feeling now? It's just a shame that all the good interesting books over at DC are getting canned while the shit one keep surviving.

Like you, I still haven't really gotten over the fact the reboot kinda blow. Particularly, I'm still pissed that the one book I really loved "Frankenstein: Agent of Shade" got canned due to low sales.

This is why we can't have nice things. This, and Grown Ups 2 beating out Pacific Rim on opening weekend. I now know how Professor Farnsworth felt when he said he didn't want to live on this planet anymore.

Sorry, this became rambling. I think your anger and resentment is contagious. The review was pretty good, I just hope you're able to make a few more jokes as this series goes on. I love it when you get pissed off, it's just sometimes it distracts from the funny. Loved the "Now I get the title" part though.

Keep up the good work man.

jenbrait said...

Ow. I thought only Frank and Marvell could give me a headache but this one really hurts. Speaking of pain is Jaeris going to be ok? I don't think the booze is helping.

Megan said...

The comic: Wow, does that fail hard. Seeing the artwork on my monitor gave me a headache, I can't imagine how bad it must look for real. So, Harvest's only motivation is that he wants an unstoppable army for some vague reason. Does he have a home world he wants to conquer? Does he just want to be able to say "I have an army?" Why would the winners work for him anyway? I mean, apart from the reasons Linkara gave. Is his health plan just that awesome? No, wait, it's the paid vacation.

Why are they wearing Tron outfits? Does that mean they get the light-discs, too?(I'm sure they have a name, but I haven't seen either movie in a while) Is Harvest just Michael Sheen in another disguise?(granted, that would be kind of awesome) Why is it the *brother and sister* that have zippers on their crotch?! Why does Punch Hard need money?

Your story: Jaeris! Aww, poor guy. But yeah, Pollo's got a point. He kinda shot himself in the foot when he made Linkara angry. I love the insult battle between Pollo and Jaeris's computer(sorry, the name has slipped my mind). Who does his voice? Also, I couldn't tell from the angle, but has Jaeris cut his braid off?

Oh, and Jaeris, considering what happened to Linkara's other enemies(exile, talked into killing itself, being blown to itty bitty pieces), you got off easy. Even Insano got the full brunt of Margaret. So sober up!

Colt Gustafson said...

Lewis Lovhaug of Earth, You have in you much rage. Welcome to the Red Lantern Corps!

Adam said...

Sweet Jebus Cripes on a pogo stick! It's only the first issue of this damn crossover and I'm so f-in' pissed off by all the idiotic BS going on, I want to find Scott Lobdell and beat him unmercifully with Hulk gloves!

DC's New 52 (and I agree with Lewis on this that "New 52" is already becoming an oxymoron) may have some good comics, but its completely buried by the stupid mistakes DC is making with the entire line and using the worst aspects of the 90s to the tenth power. Piss poor characterization, god awful costume design, zero logic within the storylines, shock tactics to gain readers, overusing violence for the sake of violence, lack of respect for the history and legacy of the DCU, even less respect towards writers and artists, editors forcing restrictions onto creative teams, and employing hacks from the 90s like Rob Liefeld! It's gotten to the point where I want to gather every irate fan that despises DC's New 52 and have them storm the corporate HQ armed with pitchforks and shotguns.

BTW, if I ever find the worthless jackass that said DC only makes comics for 45 year olds to Paul Pope, YOU'RE GETTING WHOOPED WITH THE HULK GLOVES TOO, DOUCHE-BAG!!!

Information Geek said...

I love the 52 reboot because it is what got me into comics on a month to month base. I acknowledge its problems and I know why people hate it, but there are plenty of great stuff in it that I enjoy. Hell, it's gotten me to branch out to other companies and read stuff from the past.

Honestly, I think you are missing a couple of great titles that start off iffy but later became great and I'm shocked you haven't checked them out.

Green Arrow: Jeff Lemire took over at #17 and if you like the character by any stretch, you should definitely return to it.

Detective Comics: John Layman took over at #13 and it combines detective work, action, humor, and great villains into one awesome comic. It's Paul Dini's Detective Comics run.

Superman Unchained: Best Superman book by far, written by Scott Snyder. He gets Superman down to a tee. The second issue had an awesome scene where Sups was fighting a giant robot, but while he was doing so, he was constantly trying to figure out a plan on how to rescue people in a collapsing skyscraper. Manages to save everyone too!

Superman/Batman: Only two issues in and it's great, focusing on the dynamic of the two characters. The first story has the two of them ending up on Earth 2 before everything went to crap and meeting the characters there.

Sword of Sorcery: Cancelled, but easily the best book about teenagers so far that DC put out.

So much more! But anyways, onto this review. Yep, The Culling did indeed suck and everybody knows it. Amusingly enough, what you said about crossovers interrupting other stories is not the way to get people into the book, I think you just described Marvel’s Infinity quite well. What a blackhole that comic is…

Also, it’s quite amusing to see a modern day comic with narration boxes that feel like they came out of the 90’s. Bad for the people buying it of course…

Ragnal said...

Well I knew New 52 had a lot of criticism against it, but I didn't think it could really get this bad.

Also just me nitpicking, but it kinda bugs me that Pollo looks tilted in the end there. Still adjusting to handling the puppet?

disturbedfantasy said...

WarBlade is actually a WildStorm character from the WildC.A.T.S team for the record he was also a hero so chalk that up to another character ruined in the new 52.

christos said...

They changed power girls back to the old version WTF I am tired of these asshole virgins ruining everything with there bitching, go look at porn on the internet you fucking retards

Anonymous said...

Awww, I see you got a plushie of ‘The Thing From Another World’ on your shelf now. Is it going to be buddies with Bear?

Ah, A Month of ’52 Reboot’, eh?
I wonder how this will do.

Although, You express a view that “A New Reader shouldn’t be introduced to all of these via a Crossover”.
However, isn’t the Comic that got you into Reading them, technically a Crossover?

Turning a Hero into the Villain? Yeah, Cause that worked so well the previous time! Remember Superboy Prime, anyone?

Why are so many Sci-Fi like stories taking their costume cues from Tron? The reason they looked like that was cause they were in a Computer! What, does the suit glow at night or something?
As for the Zipper’s on the Crotch, well they do make a point in “Watchman” how Super Heroes may want a Wizzer during Crime Fighting.

Also, if you need to explain Major Plot Elements in ‘Extra’, than you’re failing as a writer! It’s not as though the writer didn’t think people would ask, why not just say it in the story? It would take up one bubble!

Also, Why they so unconvinced about Time Travel, despite you just mentioned that the Reboot Kid Flash is from the Future himself!?

Ah, I see the Gunslinger is having bad times, eh? Poor fellow.

Nice Review, Linkara.
Looking forward to seeing more from you. ;3

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque said...

"Artemis" from the Young Justice cartoon was based on the existing character Artemis Crock from the comics. She was a villain in the comics, and was a hero in the cartoon.

. . .

I think she only showed up once or twice before this, though.

dreamofthekai said...

This was a terrible crossover and caused problems for the Legion Lost which i enjoyed and would lead to it being cancelled. Not to mention it was in Legion Lost we learn about Harvest and who he is truly is and it was better written but still had problems

El Konsolero said...

Just wanted to say thank you Lewis. I had a really horrible day today and although it wasn´t the best episode i helped to cheer me up a little.

Anonymous said...

I think I read something about those suits in the comic "The Harvest" beyond controlling (amplify/reducing) powers, something about tracking, ability to insta-kill within some range... basically the collars of Battle Royalle, and also complete nonsense

Ruesch said...

DC only makes comics for 45 year olds? I'm sure people already know this, but that's just stupid! Why would you do a reboot (with the hope of getting new readers to begin with) when you only make comics for people who are 45, and said people are most likely those who have been reading your comics for the past forty years anyway? Yeah, the Batman Forever clip was used way too early.
Also, did anyone else think that Bunker looked a lot like Todd in the Shadows when he was the Dread Pirate Roberts from Suburban Knights? You definately could have used a joke like that there.

NationalRadioThree said...

Not to ignite the argument again, buuuuut....

..."The Running Man" (both the Schwarzenegger movie AND the Stephen King book) did it before "Battle Royale". an "The Lottery" did it before "The Running Man". And "The Most Dangerous Game" did it before "The Lottery". And real-life Greek and Roman colisseum fights did it befiore any of them.

"Battle Royale" didn't invent crap, it's just that the hipster otakus can't accept that fact. Hell, in the realm of comics, Mojo from the X-Men comics has been doing this far before "Battle Royale" came out.

Anonymous said...

"Give it a year or two for new readers to get adjusted to the setting and characters, then do a big crossover event".

So basically, Aquaman/Justice League* and Animal Man/Swamp Thing are the only ones in The New 52 to do that right. Helps that they are also good comics in their own right (*except for Justice League).

Also, as a fan of YJ Artemis, I too wave this crossover story with a middle finger.

GoldenKing said...

I really don't care about Artemis anymore because Young Justice got cancelled and seeing a character from that show is more of a slap in the face than a tribute. BUT AT LEAST THEY REPLACED YOUNG JUSTICE WITH A WORTHWHILE SHOW! THE NEW TEEN TITANS SHOW IS SO GREAT! Hah hah hah... make it stop Linkara. They took Young Justice and Green Lantern the Animated Series away in one fell swoop to deliver a show that mocks one of my favorite shows from my childhood. Why Teen Titans, WHY?

sliver age boy said...

My opinion of the nu52 is it's a waste of time. All the good stories that came out of it didn't need a reboot to exist. I've read a good chunk of the new justice league, superman, and action. Like you said it was all "meh" or in Justice Leagues case I just thought it outright sucked. We'll have to wait for them to get their footing and turn out stories with consentiency.
As a superman fan boy I feel that the most interesting Superman in the reboot died on Earth Two. And ANY Superman costume redesign (Earth Two, Injustice, Man Of Steel, and 75% of fan art) is better than the costume they chose to go with in the mainstream Superman books.
Sorry, but I need to rant too sometimes.

Anonymous said...

Do you still read Captain America? Or any other Marvel series that isn't Deadpool? I personally think the Marvel Now relaunch was better than Nu52, since they actually seem to care.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, the new52 generally sucks the big one, with Teen Titans being one of the worst (that I've read)

I don't really have anything to say about this arc because I barely remember it. However, I still can't imagine why Linkara would enjoy Worlds Finest.

I am saying this as a Power Girl fan who actually takes the character seriously. Her characterization in JSA and her own solo series established her as a strong, independant hero who is experienced in the heroing business. She was someone who was smart, caring and willing to teach the younger generation all the while still having a witty and fun personality.

Her New52 personality, on the other hand, is a sex-crazed ditzed who is willing to sexually manipulate another hero to steal his tech. She is also the very definition of a dumb blond because she does nothing in big fights than cause more destruction.

I respect Linkara's opinion, but as someone whose all time favourite books were JSA and Power Girl, I hate Worlds Finest.

Anonymous said...

I like the Wonder Woman 'New 42' series. Does that mean I have poor taste?

Anonymous said...

45 year olds? what? i... huh? are they sniffing paint at dc?

Dark Patrician said...

First, I didn't hear anything wrong with the microphone so I don't think there are any bugs.

Second, my god this comic sucks. Why do so many writers forget logic?

Third, you said you liked "Dial H," and as a fellow enjoyer of the book I have a question. When you go from issue to issue do you sometimes have to stop and make sure you didn't skip an issue. Because I like the series but I really feel like there has to be something out there that bridges the issues because there are some odd jumps between issues.

Fourth, the scene between Jaeris, Pollo, and Sierra was very well written and very well performed. I think your storylines are a highlight of the series.

Fifth and perhaps most important...is the Pollo behind you wearing a coat or something?

Great job reviewing a bad comic, hopefully even if the material sucks you can make some great episodes out of it.

thorondragon said...

.............there are no words to describe my undying RAGE. artemis was my.... one of my....favorite...... BURRRRN!!!!!
five minutes passed.

okay after destroying all objects in sight, ik will now say that I give the fuck up on dc comics and comics in general. they haven no idea what they are doing. and afterl ooking up the date this idiocy premiered, it makes me think that fucking AVENGERS ARENA, marvel's hunger games rip off, exists BECUASE of this vomit...... and I have to say that while this series lacks the admtiable moments of emotion from avengers arena, at least people aren't through means they can't DIE!!!! fucking dc.

actually I did look up and saw that ARtemis actually isn't a fulyl original character. she is actually based on a villainous called Tigress, whose name was actually artemis. and in young justice, which I wish would replace the entirety dc comics right at this moment, she became tigress for a while...... nifty.
I still feel like destroying the closest life form to me though.

........ actually I kinda like that transformation with the red beastboy (I thought it was a fucking girl, oh god what have they done to him??!!!) turned into that thing. its actually a eral life creature from the reptilian age, the time before dinosaurs evolved. very deadly predator by all means.

....... okay, how come I am far more compelled by your story than I have been compelled by any story by comcis in a long, long time? how is it that a, absolutely no offense to you, some random comic book lover on the internet can make me more interested in his characters who are made of just him in random costumes, a robot made of cardboard, a gender flipped hal, and a guy who accidentally looks like Edward from full metal alchemist than even the instantly killed off ARtemis who was based on one of my favorite chafracters of young justice?
WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THIS WORLD!!!!?

......also very nice review..... though I have to say comcis hurt me sooooo much lately. even the GOOD ones kinda hurt me for two reasons. largely the fear that if I get invested in a character dc or marvel will slaughter them, and also because comic books are generally a mess. I am a guy who LOVES worlds, loves it when people can create a living world I can visit in my mind. but comics are soooooo very confusing. they always have the conflicting elements, super sicence and greek goddesses, cosmic beings and magic..... the worse is the cosmic forces and magic. there is really no distinction between them. both pretty much do the same function as the other so it gets confusing.
it ain't no Avatar the last airbender that is for sure. that has a fully evolved and developed world with the limitations determined, yet where their are limits there are freedom. who could relate fire and lightning together without the limitation that there are no lightning benders?

Jesse said...

Liked the bit after the credits. Got a tiny bit of storyline.

KKDW said...

I swore never to read anything by Scott Lobdell after reading the Superman crossover storyline H'El on Earth (speaking of which, would you consider reviewing that at one point... mind you it is a little long).

And I really hate what the reboot has done to Solstice, I really liked J.T.Krull's Teen Titans run and I really liked Solstice, and with the changes here I'm wondering why they just didn't make it a new character altogether?

Julie Paulson said...

I don't even know what this is. This is dumb. And confusing. And I didn't even like "Huger Games" so I don't appreciate any of it.

As to the story... I don't trust SIERRA. Like, at all.

roy ely said...

did linkara cuse?

GWRando said...

Artemis was not a construct for the animated series, she was actually the third DC Villain named Tigress using her first name as a hero identity. She was a member of the Injustice Society, the Injustice League, and the Secret Society of Supervillains.

Not to mention she was the daughter of the second Tigress and Sportsmaster, as well as the granddaughter of the original Tigress.

While they did modify her heavily from her initial character into being a hero including changing it so her mother was Vietnamese and she was the sister of Cheshire, it still must be remembered that she did in fact already exist in the DC Universe.

I'm not being nitpicky... at least I hope I'm not. It's just that she it bugs me when people say a character was created for a show when they have existed since long before the show.

Joshua Ford said...

Sorry I'm commenting a lot, but I'm curious as to what you think of the current Deadpool series. I'm actually debating on dropping it because...eh with a few exceptions, I feel that this book just isn't funny, with most of its attempts at humor stemming from pop-culture references.

You've also mentioned the Captain America series on Twitter. I am really liking that one...though I feel the Dimension Z story has gone on WAAYYYY too long and had a pretty predictable conclusion.

SchweitzerMan said...

I remember reading this in a book store thinking that I might want to buy it. I was a bit excited when I saw Artemis.

I actually didn't know until NOW that she was an original character created specifically for the Young Justice TV series but seeing her made me think, "OK, this should be interesting in terms of how seeing how similar or different she is from her animated counterpart..." and then she died which made say, "Bullshit" in front of a few other customers who were reading.

My jaw dropped when I saw that "Writing for 45 year olds" article. I'm someone who WANTS to write their own comic but when I see something like that I think, what's the point?

Either way, I've been looking forward to you jumping into the Not-So-New 52 and can't wait to see where it goes in the next three weeks

Deimos Masque said...

As a huge Teen Titans fan nothing in the New 52 disappointed me more than it's Teen Titans comic.

I forced myself through this entire storyline and figured "okay it'll get better after this right?"

Nope. Yet I keep just hoping and praying that something will happen to make it good.

I still buy a few New 52 titles, mainly just Justice League Dark, Suicide Squad and now Constantine. None of them are awesome or anything but I find them decently entertaining especially compared to the rest of the shlock.

Watchmaker said...

So. Anyone remember how Marville #1 joked about the never-ending battle to drive DC Comics into obscurity?

I think, Linkara, DC's answering your question.

Robert J. Hendriks said...

I quite enjoy some of the New 52 myself (including Batgirl and Demon Knights), but I can understand your hatred for this title, especially after having seen the March Of The Titans videos. Fun review, as always. When I read this and saw that Artemis got killed, I thought "Oh, this is gonna get Lewis infuriated".

Oh, and I wouldn't mind a Leeroy Jenkins joke in the Teen Titans #9 review, lol.

Also, I got myself the four Countdown trades to see for myself how bad it is. I know, I know, I shouldn't, but sometimes it's just fun to laugh at the bad stuff.

BookwormOtaku said...

Is it just me or does the Gunslinger's AI partner sound a little like Transformers Prime Starscream at times?

Anyway after seeng this review this only makes me, a guy who grew up watching the DCAU and from there getting interested in some of their comics both sad and baffled at somehow being drawn to Marvel now tnk to their movies even though I've barely read any of their comics and only watched a few of their cartoon shows.

On a side note Lewis, if you ever find yourself in a confusing comic and have alread used the Batman Forever clip, then how about turning to everyone's favorite killer salt and pepper shakers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYqjcHYTQgQ

Hector Nuno said...

Yeah this pretty much sums up my feelings towards the DC reboot.

Hopefully one day the old universe will come back. Somehow.

Keveak said...

That was a painful comic to experience (particularly since I am currently reading the earlier run of the Teen Titans with a similar cast), I actually ended up paying more attention to the Thing doll on the shelf. It is adorable. ^_^

Excellent review as always, though it sounds like it will be a painful month as this story continues. The storyline bit really got me invested, however, so I'll be eager to see what happens. Poor lost Gunslinger and computer. :(

Hector Nuno said...

Yeah this pretty much sums my feelings towards the DC reboot, thanks Linkara.

Hopefully the old universe will come back one day, somehow.

Erik Johnson Illustrator said...

I'm loving Plushy Three-Eyed The Thing back there. He'd be a great addition to Build-A-Bear Workshop!

I see what you mean about Tron Costumes, but my first reaction to seeing the whole team in black suits with glowing pipe lines was to another horrible reboot: Loonatics Unleashed!

Collin said...

Right so the Teen Titans don't believe the legionaries are time travelers....despite the fact that Kid Flash is from the future.

Interesting.

Also: What the Hell DC?!? Artemis is made of kick-ass and you just kill her off after her appearance to draw n Young Justice fans? I just--I can't even properly express my rage in written format

dancingmadrb3 said...

Its nice to see Will Wolfgram again, I like his bit as the gunslinger.

Anonymous said...

Wow DC thanks for killing a character I like in a show and might've picked up and read only to learn that you kill her off in the same issue.

To answer Beast Boy's new origin. In Ravagers #0 it told us that Garfield is an orginary man when kidnapped, then was experimented on with some lightning torture device then grew his red hair and powers AND lost his memory.

And I kinda liked Ravagers until the last issue where Deathstroke hunted down everyone who escaped, stab them with a magical knife(except Beast Boy), and teleported them back to NOWHERE. Making the entire run pointless.

From FelixDark

Inquisitor D. said...

...

Ok, Linkara, perhaps I'm missing something. Or perhaps you just didn't want to reuse the joke from Marville #5. But looking at Thunder and Lightning there, one big burning question comes to mind

"Why are they white?"

Seriously. Thunder and Lightning were not only both female before, they were both black: the daughters/nieces (I forget) of Black Lightning. I could forgive something like getting characters you don't draw wrong in a group shot, but... yeah. They're major here. This confuses me. Are there other characters called Thunder and Lightning at DC that I've just never heard of?

(Yes, I know their original background isn't in play here due to that Black Lightning/Blue devil bit in DCuP, but still...)

Or did someone see Voodoo fail and think that it was just because the main character was black? :P

Malcolm Belmont said...

YOU NO LIKE AQUaMAN NEW 52? Nah i don't mind i just want a explanation on why you haven't been reading Aquaman..

PopCultureOtaku said...

Oh god this crossover. When someone like me doesn't want to read a crossover with characters that use to be good then you know it's bad. Whole idea was stupid. Characterizations were idiotic. Then wasn't one character really acted like they should. Don't give me new 52 bs. When your characters act so different then they did before that the only way recognized is by their name or by their face there is problem. Especially if they have taken out of the character you like. Teen Titans and Ravagers is good example. We know these characters character can be better written. They have been. Not to say whole dcu is like that but reboot had what feels 90% of it's characters do a 180 personality change. Characters go under new origins and other bs that wasn't needed. DC reboot didn't break something that didn't need to be fixed. It stomped on it and then rolled it over with a steam roller. You supposedly wanted to get more fans except fact all you did was alienate your old fans a good bunch with this. New fans you were hoping wanted nothing to do with this or comics in general anymore and few you got gave the industry a small injection life for extra few years. You keep doing stuff like this it won't matter.
Sorry on that rant but like linkara I hate new 52. There are good books but there were so many good books and story lines wasted for hopes of mythological giant amount new fans that never show up. Ask local comic book store if you still have one if they are still hurting due to economy and no one buying comics as much. I know the store I go to struggling. I know a friend whose store he goes to still opens only appointment. Funny thing about this all Marvel REALLY relaunched a bunch of titles. They got the same success as you and didn't have to kill their universe to do it. Despite the encomy and everything else that is hurting comic books a major factor been forgetting. These comic these are not as good or compelling enough to draw fans as they use to be. Dark and gritty stuff just doesn't work in that department. Not everyone wants to see that all time and that is what makes up marvel and dc. You can say well it sells but if it was that compelling and that good then it would be doing a lot better despite things. Marvel and dc don't help themselves and are making things easier on fans or potential fans on what to chose. That is just way I see things. Sorry.
Okay back to what I wanted to actually get to with Hunger Games. It could be said that hype around movie even before it came that they thought they could come up with the idea.
What was the stupid point in making Beast Boy Red? WTF was the idea behind making Catilan Fairchild a she-hulk rip off. Or even bs that was revealed later in ravagers book. Even making Warblade from Wildcats really stupid killer/villain. Way to go in running more Wildstorm characters DC.
You mean like turning heroes into villains like: Warblade and Rose Wilson and now Creeper too. Great.
You know when this comic came out that Tron look had already trend was already done. I guess no one told the creators of the book.

PopCultureOtaku said...

sorry ran out of room.
Wonder Girl character was destroyed so badly by the writing in this series. What the hell was the point of making her so rhymes with witch? From the first issue it was so bad. Some will say the journey to get to where she is good character but she was never like this before. Another unnecessary character change. Cause we really need her to be thief now. Really cause Wonder Woman stole her origin. UGH! Wonder Girl was daughter of Zeus before new 52 and now Wonder Woman job. Everyone that has to do with wonder woman or was has to be written like rage induce amazons.
Artemis appearance and death just goes to show you no one at DC liked Young Justice. I'm serious. I think they injected themselves into season 2 and probably nudge Cartoon Network into canceling the show. I have no proof considering how much it was like really DCU and not new 52. How much dc seems to want to get ride any references to the old I wouldn't be surprised.
Oh Paul Pope comment. It had to come up. Just goes to show how much dc out of touch. I'm not going back to that rant.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Although, You express a view that “A New Reader shouldn’t be introduced to all of these via a Crossover”.
However, isn’t the Comic that got you into Reading them, technically a Crossover?"

That's different - it was a three-issue miniseries instead of taking place in the middle of either side's book. It had no tie-ins and was printed exclusively as that miniseries, so everything you needed to know was all in there.

Nick Grey said...

I hate seeing children kill each other. I hate seeing teenagers kill each other. It's just the way to add extra pain to a story that is already filled with plenty of emotional punches to the gut. It's cheap and it's tasteless.

I am glad to see Pollo bringing up those points to the gunslinger. All the common plot holes me and others pointed out in regard to his character have now been brought up. Mostly the fact that he brought his current state upon himself through his stubborn refusal to just stop and ask for help from someone who would have been plenty willing until you attacked him and his friends.

And it's true that everybody is the hero of their own story. Nobody thinks that they're the bad guy unless they, like the good doctor, are insane. The road to hell is paved with good intentions because the roads everywhere are paved with good intentions. Nobody ever has BAD intentions. As such people with good intentions have to be held to a higher standard than common thugs. Jeris seems to be failing that measurement.

Megan said...

So according to Mark Millar and Todd McFaralane, comic books "aren't for ladies."

*Looks at my complete Sandman collection and the first issues of Bone and House of Mystery from the library* Yeah, go sit and spin, both of you.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Third, you said you liked "Dial H," and as a fellow enjoyer of the book I have a question. When you go from issue to issue do you sometimes have to stop and make sure you didn't skip an issue. Because I like the series but I really feel like there has to be something out there that bridges the issues because there are some odd jumps between issues."

The end credits was recommending stuff that people recommended to me but I haven't read myself (or I had stopped reading, like Animal Man), so I haven't read Dial H.

"Fifth and perhaps most important...is the Pollo behind you wearing a coat or something?"

It's a scarf a fan made for Pollo and gave at a convention.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"YOU NO LIKE AQUaMAN NEW 52? Nah i don't mind i just want a explanation on why you haven't been reading Aquaman.."

I just lost interest after a while.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Seriously. Thunder and Lightning were not only both female before, they were both black: the daughters/nieces (I forget) of Black Lightning. I could forgive something like getting characters you don't draw wrong in a group shot, but... yeah. They're major here. This confuses me. Are there other characters called Thunder and Lightning at DC that I've just never heard of?"

Yeah, it's a different Thunder and Lightning. Before the daughters of Black Lightning, they were two Vietnamese guys in orange and blue, respectively, and they had run into the Teen Titans several times in the past.

Anonymous said...

"This is why we can't have nice things. This, and Grown Ups 2 beating out Pacific Rim on opening weekend. I now know how Professor Farnsworth felt when he said he didn't want to live on this planet anymore."

Don't worry about it, Pacific Rim is outgrossing Grown Ups 2 by 200 million.

(Pacific Rim) $344,170,000

(Grown Ups 2) $154,400,000

Just because a bad movie has a bigger opening weekend than a great movie doesn't mean it stay on the top.

Word of mouth is a powerful tool.

David D— said...

That Paul Pope article just made me want to think of the Nostalgia Critic's 'Haunting' review. Someone at DC's shouting, "I'M THE ADULT! I'M THE ADULT!"

As a new comic fan, I do have to admit that the only DC books I've really gotten into have been light on continuity past and present. Mainly 'Dial H' (CANCELLED) and 'All-Star Western' (REALLY, THAT MIGHT GO TOO? WELL SMEG). I also have hopes for 'Superman Unchained'. It's definitely my favorite post-'11 version of Supes.

To answer Patrician's question about 'Dial H': I feel like the cancellation caught writer China Mieville by surprise. It feels like he was expecting more issues but was caught very short at about #12 and had to zoom to the #15 finale as fast as he could. (A finale with a pretty cool solution, but I still can't believe that It's Over You DC Bastard You Killed My Dial.)

Anonymous said...

Well, between the excessive, poorly justified violence in this comic and that article you so graciously brought to my attention, I have totally lost faith in the comic industry and possibly humanity in general. I'm going to go watch some old Teen Titans episodes so I can remember what joy feels like.

Oh wait, you have some storyline after this video; maybe that'll be a nice pick-me-up! (watches it) Nope, nope, worked for a while, but I ended on depressed again.

WoodBuzz said...

I think most would agree that the new 52 is a pile of elephant crap and wish that DC would pull there head out of there ass and tale some good stories again though I'm done with after they callously killed off both Damien Wayne and Catwoman I just gave up.

Dark Patrician said...

"The end credits was recommending stuff that people recommended to me but I haven't read myself (or I had stopped reading, like Animal Man), so I haven't read Dial H."

Ah, must have misread that, sorry. The early issues are good and the main character is overweight...which may be a first as I can't think of many overweight heroes. *And cue a list of overweight heroes in response.*

"It's a scarf a fan made for Pollo and gave at a convention."

A.) There are people who make clothes for props for fun...who knew?
B.) So does this mean you are accepting contributions to expand Pollo's wardrobe?

Anonymous said...

Haters gonna hate I been digging a lot of the new 52 sorry about your unrealistic expectations

Megan said...

Three questions:

1. What exactly *is* that three eyed plushy on your shelf?

2. Where can I get one?

3. Did you know that today is Schrondinger's 126th birthday? :P

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"A.) There are people who make clothes for props for fun...who knew?
B.) So does this mean you are accepting contributions to expand Pollo's wardrobe?"

I know, right? =D

And yep, I am indeed! ^_^

J-Shap said...

Good Lord, the amount of purified 90s garbage injected into this comic is enough to cause 1000 overdoses - insanely wordy dialogue, pointless narration, messy art covered in hatches and awkward poses, ridiculous costumes with a million superfluous accessories BECAUSE ASYMMETRY IS WHERE IT'S AT, a boring, simple plot that tries to up tension by adding in a lot of confusing add-on plot devices, names like Warblade, Fist Point, and Leash, and it's even written by two of the 90s greatest hacks, Scott Lobdell and Tom DeFalco. UGGGGHHHH.....

WoodBuzz said...

I know I mentioned this in my last comment but I don't think I explained my disgust with DC fairly ... hmm There fricking terrible seriously KILLING OFF CATWOMAN whats wrong with you DC are you high and to add insult yo injury they didn't even have her die in a awesome last stand way her character deserves they just have some ass-hole shoot her in the head in a sick unnecessary display of senseless violence while she was tied helpless to a chair and to make matters worse even while they were killing her DC thought it necessary to still have her be sexualized which is both creepy and infuriating to no end ... Ok I think I've ranted long enough .. and I'm not gonna bring up Damien Wayne because someone else already commented on him above and this post has ran on to long anyways.

Tom Fagan said...

I found your review quite funny, and the comic itself was rather confusing. But given your dislike for the New 52, I am now curious; what you think of Justlice League Dark and Wonder Woman? I apologise if I am being rude.

Douglas VanBennekom said...

This just makes me sad, reminding why they shouldn't cancelled Young Justice. Great Review.

Cannon said...

I know I have asked this on your Twitter before, but I never got a response, so I'll try my luck here. I was just wondering your opinion on the recent Superman: Unchained and Superman\Batman books.

Personally, I found them to be a breath of fresh air in an overall very underwhelming reboot and in Superman: Unchained's case (Superman\Batman starts off in the first year of Superman crime fighting, so this may also become the case later on), it's just great to see Superman being written like Superman again.

Laughing Hyena said...

Hoping this hasn't been covered yet:

Yeah, Linkara, that's not a dinosaur.
Toy makers, please, for the love of god, stop putting Dimetrodon in anything labeled as "Dinosaurs". Dimetrodon is not a dinosaur!

The words you are looking for Linkara, are either therapsid, synapsid or Synapsida. They were early mammal-like reptiles.
The creature Beast Boy turns into is part of the Gorgonopsia family. The most famous one of that family is: Lycaenops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgonopsia

And how right you are about the "inmates running the asylum" comment. I remember the interview you had with Nash on the rumor of former Wizard Magazine staff having jobs in DC.

I've been buying old Inquest and Wizard magazines for CCG history on my favorite card game. So I get to see all of that nonsense up close and personal. Plus, I also remember Toy Fare (Another publication under Wizard Magazine), which was just as bad.

God, I hope Rick Swan (Inquest) isn't in charge of anything anymore. That man wrote some nasty articles parading it around as "humor" in a immature 90's "extreme" way.

Anonymous said...

I'm getting tired the whole "I have lost faith humanity" trope.

It's getting annoying and it make me wonder why that even bother Comment here if that lost faith? what the point.

Lewis, are you also annoyed at this trope?

Douglas VanBennekom said...

This makes me sad, wish they hadn't cancelled Young Justice. Great Review.

Anonymous said...

So, hey, you pretty much summed up my feelings of the New 52 as quickly as possible. It feels like all of the worst '90's-isms have returned.

ThatKidInTheWheelchair said...

As a casual comic reader at best but a lover of everything animated, my first thought when I found out the plot of this book was the Winner Takes All episode of the cartoon in which random metahumans (including Robin) are taken from around the globe and forced to fight for the Game Master. If I remember correctly, the "prize" was even a chance to fight at his side. If they got inspiration from anything, I feel like it's that.

Overall, great review although I can't say I had all the same problems you did (I just assumed they couldn't take the outfits off). Then again, I'm a casual reader at best.

thorondragon said...

I think the only way to save any dignity in dc, short of sending one of the current dc writers back in time so it creates a paradox that eliminates him from existence, is, shockingly, another reboot.

but now a reboot int he sense of restarting the world form the middle, or even restarting this universe. but simply set the record clean and start new, truly new. have the world remade where things are starting out. I gain confidence with this vision from watching its success twice in the form of the dc animated universe and young justice. why can't we have it that comments are reborn in the shape of dc animated or young justice? cause those were awesome. they showed that remaking the dc world in some way or form and make it truly new and successful was possible. think if we could get the balance of the joy and darkness that the batman animated series OOZED with, the epic feats of the superman animated series, the grand quests of the justice league series. the truly, honestly, without unnecessary gore or DEATH maturity of young justice, who showed us that the superhero genrie could be taken seriously without the morbid content. fuck, I would accept Teen Titans cartoon content, and hwile I loved that series it was sooooooo damn confusing and weird.

I swear to you I have a hard time imagining that dc was ever the source for those great feats of entertainment. its like they cannot understand the equation of effort put in can be great than the gain from it. if anything teachers that is avatar the last airbende,r legend of korra, and my little pony friendship is magic!! instead of effort they prefer easy shock and gore..... sighs

I shall end this rant with a small diversion into extra content. generally I kinda like extra content, if they are done well. my little pony gave a good example by adding a bit in one of the tdw comics, putting more meaning into the efforts and actions of certain characters.
hell amss effect made a crappy prequel for one of its characters in the form of a poorly made movie, yet despite its poorly madew equality it made me see the character in a completely new light. sudddnely all of his trials and pains had far more weight and meaning to it.

David D— said...

Paul Pope says that his "45-year-olds" quote was from around the time of his 'Batman: Year 100' miniseries, placing it around the year 2006. Apparently, younger readers were not meant to read Gail Simone's 'Birds of Prey' or Jaime Reyes as the Blue Beetle or 'All-Star Superman' or '52'.

...Who did Paul Pope talk to, and is that madman still loose?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Paul Pope says that his "45-year-olds" quote was from around the time of his 'Batman: Year 100' miniseries, placing it around the year 2006. Apparently, younger readers were not meant to read Gail Simone's 'Birds of Prey' or Jaime Reyes as the Blue Beetle or 'All-Star Superman' or '52'.

...Who did Paul Pope talk to, and is that madman still loose?"

Not to mention I see little to indicate that the attitude has changed in the last seven years.

Paul S. said...

This comic does the impossible... it makes Avengers Arena look well written and well thought out. Granted it's a lot shorter than AA.

rdfox said...

There's a VERY good reason that this image macro is my standard reply to DC's idiocy since the reboot over on scans-daily:

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w318/TheWho87/Wrestling/Botchamania/CornetteFace-FuckThisCompany.jpg?t=1266492143

There's also a reason that THIS is my usual response when Scott Lobdell and Dan Didio come up:

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/7/8/0/30780.jpg?v=1

Yeah, I like the New 52 even less than Lewis does...

Information Geek said...

In replying to WoodBuzz who said:

“I think most would agree that the new 52 is a pile of elephant crap and wish that DC would pull there head out of there ass and tale some good stories again though I'm done with after they callously killed off both Damien Wayne and Catwoman I just gave up.”

“I know I mentioned this in my last comment but I don't think I explained my disgust with DC fairly ... hmm There fricking terrible seriously KILLING OFF CATWOMAN whats wrong with you DC are you high and to add insult yo injury they didn't even have her die in a awesome last stand way her character deserves they just have some ass-hole shoot her in the head in a sick unnecessary display of senseless violence while she was tied helpless to a chair and to make matters worse even while they were killing her DC thought it necessary to still have her be sexualized which is both creepy and infuriating to no end ... Ok I think I've ranted long enough .. and I'm not gonna bring up Damien Wayne because someone else already commented on him above and this post has ran on to long anyways.”

Catwoman is still alive and going. She has an ongoing title (which stinks, but I blame Ann Nocenti, said writer, for that) and in JLA, where it seems like she died, that was just Martian Manhunter in disguise to get the drop on the Secret Society.

As for Damian, that was pure and simple Grant Morrison, not DC. Grant was originally planning on killing the character off a long time ago, but decided against it because the character caught on. However, he killed him because of his ultimate message and theme of Batman in general: Everything eventually goes back to start or it all reverts back to Batman alone. No matter what happens or changes, it’s always just him. No matter what steps forward, it’ll always be eventually undone.

Now that make sense from a message and thematic point of view, it just completely and utterly sucks from a story perspective. So, Damian’s death is on Morrison pure and simple, not DC.



Now for something completely amusing and upbeat in the DC Universe, Harley Quinn gets her own title and it’s written by Jimmy Palomitti and Amanda Conner (You know, the people who did Power Girl, though Conner is just writing now drawing outside of the covers). The first issue, a #0, will be about Harley Quinn interviewing several different artists for her new series and critiquing them all until she finds the right person to draw her series. The artists include (but not all since there are 17 of them in total drawing a page each): Paul Pope, Walter Simonson, Sam Keith (the guy who drew The Maxx of all things), Art Baltazar (who drew Tiny Titans), Dawyrn Cooke, Tony S. Daniel, and Adam Hughes. Now this sounds fun!

Odinfrost said...

So it was hinted earlier that nimue was being corrupted by something, and now i think about that code from earlier... and the attitude of the gunslingers computer ai... could it be that its actually working for the bad guys in gunslingers homeworld, and tries everything to make sure they cant return? I mean, it seems like it is the most advanced of all the ai's around (it, pollo and nimue) it could pull lots of insane stunts and get away with it

Anonymous said...

1) The Artemis thing piss me off SO MUCH. Especially since she became the best character of Young Justice. I mean, come on DC! Not everything has to revolve the same few characters!

2) You really need to get the clip from Futurama that goes "You can't have people announce what they are feeling! That makes me angry!"

3) Be glad it's four issues and not Avenger Arena's 18 issue. Ugh, hate that book and wish it would just DIE!

Kaor said...

This week's disclaimer: In which nothing stated is true.

Ciaran Hillock said...

Just wondering Linkara but how do you feel about the price of comics today, I haven't bought a comic in a while though mostly because prices in the UK are pretty steep. Especially when the price in dollars is just replaced with the pound.

Head Case said...

I just read the article myself and I have to say I'm not really sure what to say about DC's marketing strategy other then the fact that, according to DC, I'm apparently 17 years (16 next month) too young to be reading comics (at least their comics anyway)

On the plus side, I guess this saves me the trouble of getting shot down for pitching a Kamandi book, Like Pope did in the article.

Timzor said...

Hmmm. Watching you make fun of a bad comic is somehow less fun when it's one I had to suffer through myself... especially when it's a franchise I care about. I slogged through WAY too many issues of New 52 Teen Titans out of some misguided sense of loyalty before I eventually dropped it. Everything about it was terribl, and as you pointed out, strangely reminiscent of the 90s. Red Hood and the Outlaws, on the other hand, remains on my pull list to this day. Why? I dunno. I like Jason Todd. I like Starfire. Roy is an idiot with a trucker hat. ...well, I guess 2/3 ain't bad.

Olivia said...

I wonder what you would think of Marvel attempt at that: Avengers Arena... trought from what i have read of Arena, it seem better than this

FugueforFrog said...

First and foremost the most important thing: MUPPET THING ON THE SHELF! HE'S PART OF THE SHOW NOW!

As for the episode: so basically...battle royale of teens fighting to the death...just because. And many include stupid new versions of characters just because no one thinks that the classics can matter anymore or there is such a thing as legacy or whatever. Baloney. Why the heck are the Big 2 so obsessed with sensationalism that they keep doing this sort of thing...though in Marvel's case, at least they don't have to reboot things every few minutes. Oh, and Beast Boy is now red...why?

Finally: interesting Jareth/Pollo conversation. Obviously Nimue's affliction's intruding on the search but at least he's still trying...and beating the other computer at chess.

Sagitarious said...

Hello Linkara, I'm a big fan and I love your work. I do have a question about your recommendations. Would you consider Smallville Season 11 as part of new 52? And do you have an opinion on the series? I know you probably didn't watch the show, but as far as this comic goes, if you want a classic yet modern Superman, I highly recommend this series.

Anonymous said...

I'm afraid that the reviews for the next three weeks are going to get boring and repetitive. Not because you are not funny, but because the core premise of the book has been played out so many times. Is there really enough variety in the following issues to justify four whole reviews based on this trite story?

Also, this comic is forcing to put off the epic conclusion of Brute Force. That makes me sad.

Ben H. said...

I am actually happy with the reboot. It condensed the previous stories of a lot of the major characters, so the most popular and well known where usually in continuity, and allowed someone like me, with a lot of knowledge on those stories, with little on other, to jump in. However, doing things like completely wiping out the history of what may be the second most popular team in the DCU is just stupid.

That being said, i cant help but feel like this review was more at a stab at the not-so-new 52. In the end, it almost felt like a more justified "Everything was better on my earth", and that shouldn't be the case. I dont think that anyone should review a comic for what it isnt, but instead review it for what it is.

But its not my show, so keep up the good work, as i still enjoyed the episode.

Volvagia said...

Lewis: My argument for what the "relaunch" should have entailed:

1. A completely hard reboot, eliminating ALL the heroes except Batman and Superman (because they're the only have gotten mainstream cinematic tent-pole adaptations). Only 4 books publish a month, at first.
2. Negotating to get back into grocery and convenience stores, possibly burning the comic store market. Physical copy costs $2.00.
3. Founding the digital option, on top of that. Digital copies are $1.50. (Holding something in your hands to flip through the pages is worth a little extra.)
4. Use the extra money to approach appropriate directors with a lower interference approach on the results, with no stupid studio politics limiting what you're "allowed" to film and use that to reintroduce characters.

Unknown said...

For an explaination of Harvest and what he plans to do with the army he is attempting to create you need to read Superboy #19. Which should have been done during the Culling so we actually understand what a douchebag Harvest really is.

Basically Harvest is from the 31st Century and fighting a war against Metahumans in which his family is killed causing him to want to get revenge. He can't win the war in the 31st Century so he plans to travel back in time to wipe out the first generation of Metahuman superheros by using thier own kids to kill them. So he steals the dead body of Jon Lane Kent the son of Superman and uses 31st Century technology to bring him back to life and raise him as his own new son totally dedicated to killing other Metahumans. Things don't work so well and he basically travels back to the 21st Century uses Jon Lane Kent's dna to create a clone of Superman's son which is Superboy. Now he's gathering up other Super powered being to create his ultimate army to obliterate the Metahuman menace.

Unknown said...

Superboy #19 has Harvest's entire backstory and explains what he is going to do with his army something that should have been actually included as part of the culling rather then all the fighting scenes.

Cat C said...

Good lord that was terrible. And all the red just... WHY? Did the blue ink cartridge run out?

Never thought I would see the day when I can honestly say there are more things for Marvel I currently enjoy than DC. Even if you lump the MCU as 1 thing, Marvel still outweighs DC by a bunch.

Comics being for 45 year olds... hmm that comment goes right with the one where a few members of the industry said comics 'aren't for women'
(source below
WARNING conversations about rape)

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/321689/scitech/gaming/comics-aren-t-for-women-say-comics-creators-mark-millar-todd-mcfarlane
source of the interviews and article

On a happier note, I love The Thing plushie up by snowflame. That little guy is just so awesome.

Interesting turn with the next step of the storyline.

Shanethefilmmaker said...

Is that a Thing plushie? LOOK OUT LINKARA IT'S GONNA KILL AND IMIATE YOU ALL!!!!

That behind the scenes thing they have at the end of the comics just makes me think 1 thing and this applies to Marvel and other comic companies. They think were are stupid. Nothing more, nothing less. They literally think that comic readers both old and new are idiots that need things pointed out to them. Don't get me wrong I am quite sure there are gonna be masterpieces in their rebooted franchises. Starting fresh sometimes works. But when you put a lot of nonsensical plot and exposition and then put something after that saying "Well what we are trying to point out...." It not only insults the reader. But it also gives the reader the impression that the writers are the real idiots for thinking we are the stupid ones.

As a Tron fan I am insulted by 52 for doing this. It was like they knew they were going down and taking many shout out franchises with them.

Head Exec: Ok folks we are gonna reboot DC with as many pop culture references as we could that way if we are hated THEY ARE HATED TOO HAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!!

Also red Beast Boy!? Come on!!!

Huh when you did that opera note I kinda expected a glass to break.

Nice to see Jaeris has a funny side even though it's just mood whiplash. Poor guy. Still I wonder what would happen if him in this state ran into a Marville Drunk Linkara.

Cosmo Fish said...

Well, comics are getting more and more "mature" and most psychologists seem to be of the opinion that comics are inherently bad for children anyway. It's probably for the best that DC is now just straight up calling themselves adult entertainment (the prude in me hopes this won't lead to more pseudo-porn in comics but it likely will).

And lol at the robot pissing match.

Something tells me there is significance in Jaris' computer sounding like Mechakara...

Jeff Jacobson said...

I was surprised this Futurama clip didn't turn up in this review.

(Of course, Fry was having the characters announce how they feel and not using caption boxes.)

DMaster said...

"Actually, Artemis has been around in the DcU since 1987, using the name Tigress, which is the name she would use later in the Young Justice cartoon. Though I do get why you would be angry, seeing as how she had blonde hair in the comic, instead of black, and was kinda-sorta a good guy. Also, while I do understand that some people feel that Beast Boy's skin change is unwanted, I do feel that his original origin was, well, stupid, so connecting his powers to The Red was to me a welcome change."

...said Anonymous at August 12, 2013 at 10:09

I have nothing against tying him to the Red, but making him red just to signify that was very dumb.

"However, Forever Evil does sound like it'll be a rather interesting story (assuming it's done right) but...the number of tie-ins it's slated to have is OBSCENE, unless I'm grossly incorrect I do believe that ALL 52 Villain's Month titles are going to be counted as tie-ins to it. :(...apparently DC meant that their comics were for RICH 45 year olds."

...said Joshua Ford at August 12, 2013 at 10:21

As I understand it, there's the 7-part "Forever Evil", starting in Villians Month, then the next month, three 6-issue minis set in this world with the "Forever Evil" name in them, and the Justice League titles will tie into that (dropping Justice League Dark from the pull list throughout ALL of this garbage). My bigger concern is for November, when over a dozen titles are tie-ins to Zero Year in Batman. Including Action Comics. Including Green Arrow. Including Green Lantern Corps. ...what?!?

"Or did someone see Voodoo fail and think that it was just because the main character was black? :P"

...said Inquisitor D. at August 12, 2013 at 14:31

Knowing how even smart executives think, and how stupid DC executives are, this would not surprise me in the least.

"The end credits was recommending stuff that people recommended to me but I haven't read myself (or I had stopped reading, like Animal Man), so I haven't read Dial H."

...said Lewis Lovhaug at August 12, 2013 at 14:57

If you quit because of Rotworld, it's running independently of that whole story arc now, and it's not like (spoiler) his family is written out for good. In the very least, look at the second annual issue. That one, on its own at least, is worth a read.

"Haters gonna hate I been digging a lot of the new 52 sorry about your unrealistic expectations"

...said Anonymous at August 12, 2013 at 15:56

"Unrealistic expectations"? Like what? Decent, even if standard, villain motivation? Writing even basic characters in a compelling way? Treating your fanbase with a modicum of respect? Standing up for all your titles, not just the commercially successful ones? Using punctuation properly? (double meaning there...)

DMaster said...

Comments about recommendations:

Demon Knights: Whoever cancelled this, I will gladly point Jigsaw in your direction should he ever come to exist in our world. This decision? HAAATTTEE!!!
Batwing: Felt the exact same way. Plus, even before Gray/Palmiotti took over, Necieza really dragged it down and the editor apparently went on holiday as the spelling of even character names just went to crap. Love your work most of the time Gray/Palmiotti, but you really dropped the ball here.
Justice League International: Really, Didio and Johns clearly had it out for this book from the start. Considering the way they wrote that gods-awful annual issue (review recommendation, Mr. Lovhaug), they did not care for it at all, and their disdain was so naked it's a wonder it had skin.
World's Finest: ...with the costume thing, at least they gave a REASON for the change in the pages of Supergirl (speaking of, that crossover wasn't half-bad, just fine, and the title character herself got a lot better from there). Unlike say, Zatanna.
Earth-2: Not really a complaint that can be applied proper to that book, as virtually all genre fiction publically set in the real world now has to have this trope.
Batgirl: Barely paid attention to this title as I always knew it would sell. I'm more interested in supporting books that could actually use the help. But what I have read is certainly good, and DC executives earned yet another slap in the face from a Kryptonian for that little debacle.
Batman: First year's run? AWESOME (and I hate that word from its overuse). After? Just okay.
Nightwing: DC seems to have a problem in general with diverse coloring. It says something when every single title of the line of books labeled "The Dark" has a more diverse color palette, even in I, Vampire.
All-Star Western: To those who don't check comichron.com? (name's a coincidence, don't read into it) It's a sales thing. If you like westerns, please help support one of the relatively few good books in DC right now (not to mention their ONLY anthology title anymore; why don't those sell??)
Green Lantern/Corps/New Guardians: haven't looked into as of yet outside of skimming Robert Venditti's work (look into Demon Knights & X-O Manowar, some of the best books anywhere!)
Deadpool: Haven't had luck with picking up Deadpool comics yet, can't talk to you there.

Gods this comic is bad and what it represents is loathsome. And Lobdell is in charge of another Super-crossover in October, in spite of how awful the last one was. At least as much so as was the case with Liefeld, WHY IS THIS MAN HERE?

lost_limey said...

I'm a fan of a lot of the New 52, even if it wasn't technically needed to be a reboot.

I've found that the only New 52 books I haven't enjoyed have featured the work of either Scott Lobdell or Rob Liefeld. Avoid those guys and it's almost decent. This crossover event might be the nadir so far (probably doesn't help that Legion Lost and Legion of Super-Heroes both bore me.)

As a fan of Snyder's Batman, have you read any of "Talon," which spun off from it?

libraryguy said...

Good episode. The Pollo/Jaeris conversation was great. Yes, Linkara really screwed him over, and yes, Pollo was practically shouting at him to stop when it happened. It is also true that Jaeris initiated the conflict (on several occasions) and did not even try to talk to Linkara, and can be said to have brought his situation on himself. It might have had more impact if we'd seen more of Jaeris playing the blame game, but it still worked well.

Shifter's Haven said...

N52 make me read issues on monthly basis so hey, it did something right. But I didn't read. Oh, if I recommend something, I'ld go for Wonder-Woman #0, very enjoyable and fun one-shot homage to Silver Age and make me reread whole run and now I'm reading WW series as well (and found very enjoyable, which I overlooked first time). Wish something like that was more often and "All-Girl adventure tales for men" was true title. And yes, Batwoman is good too. The only thing, before reading it, I strongly recommend to start with Batwoman: Elegy and only then go for N52 story.
And somehow, I like Lobdell's RHatO. That was genuinely fun title. Except some strange depictions in #1. I understand why someone do not find it that way with more than valid reasons, but well, I am not going to hate something because of it. I just accept my poor tastes and will live with it. Only wish that Starfire's spacesuit remains. But anyway, I just can not to tell, that Lobdell's last issue was... I don't know... Best of the run? And ended with Jason forgiving Bruce and likewise. That was touchy in a good way.

Anyway, today's comic is just... Boring. I'ld just stop reading and that much of strange motivations would go unnoticed by me.

P.S. I find myself thinking, that 45 demographic is not wise to target. Because, when they gone who will buy your comics? It's more wise to invest money and half of your titles in children and teenagers, so when they grow and continue to buy comics (other half of the titles) from you. I mean, isn't this a wise strategy?

reservoirdogs said...

So, thoughts on Marvel Now?

Anonymous said...

The Comic: Could be worse. Could be Marville.

Your Arc: Poor guy, that said it was nice to get some sort of update on him since he got stuck here. I seen comments questioning Jaeris's AI's motives in this bit and I have to agree. Seems odd to dismiss Pollo's thoughts just because they don't like each other.

Other: I didn't notice anything odd about this episode as far as your new mic goes, so... (shrug) tweak if you want.

Fiery Little One

e7181f04-03db-11e3-b3f1-000bcdcb2996 said...

wow fuck I gotta tap out linkara. I can't go on fuck everything about this book fuck it with a jagged rusty knife.

I literally had to pause the review and I'm gonna close the tab when i finish typing this. Fuck this book so hard, My eyes are welling up with rage. Fuck you DC fuck you warner brothers fuck everyone involved with this. You jerk young justice around with an erratic production schedule and and airing schedule you tease it with cancellation for 2 excruciatingly anxious season. then you just pull the plug because it wasn't selling enough toys, even though i'll be damned if you can show me any time where merch for the show was advertised. no that wasnt enough jerking around a loyal fanbase.

You take a well liked beloved character from that series and you introduce them into the mainstream comics continuity only to have her needlessly killed off by some lazyily created bit character named fist point? motherfuckers you miscarried spawns of diseased ridden whores fucking fist point!? you lazy fucks you are going to with a straight fucking face bring out a fucking character called fist point? fuck you, fuck you, i can't form the words to properly convey my emotions fuck you DC. you put Artemis in the fucking refrigerator so that tim drake can have a moment of doubt over whether or not to kill fist point. the balls on you motherfuckers. fuck you DC. I can't think i cant words i forgot how to words fuck you DC! Fuck you I will never buy a DC comic again, I will never fucking pay to see another fucking movie fuck you for man of steel too! i'm pirating the shit out batman/superman. i'm going to make fucking dvd copies of the best quality pirated copy I can find and i will hand them out at the fucking theater in my city to deny you that little bit of extra money. I can not say this hard enough for DC/WB fuck you.

keep up the great work linkara and see you in a month when you are reviewing something else I'm fucking done with this proudly displayed turd.

Eric Ratcliffe said...

Really like the review this week, I can only imagine that the Paul Pope thing was just the start of other rants incoming in the next few weeks.

Like how George Perez/James Robinson/Kevin Maguire/Paul Cornell and so many other talented creators have left DC due to editorial mandates and frustration of treatment.

I really miss everything from before the reboot, though I will openly admit to liking bits and pieces of Lobdell's work.

William Ngo said...

New 52 recommendations from me, based on my pull list (although I am following things I wouldn’t recommend):

Aquaman – Epic story that feels like a grand adventure. Great introduction to Aquaman. I just really like it.

Batgirl – Good, but the recent arc with the Ventriloquist was lame. Although I like how personal the book is right now… and maybe it’ll lead into the reintroduction of Cass or Steph, although that’s unlikely. But I have faith in Gail, though Scott Snyder apparently already failed in bringing Cass back.

Batman – I don’t mind Death of the Family, but Zero Year’s portrayal of Red Hood One, if he is the Joker, kills it for me. So much for the Joker being a man warped by his ‘one bad day’. Now, he’s a gang leader… yippee.

Batman and Robin – Well, the last few issues have been pretty repetitive (except the Catwoman issue), the second most recent being entirely pointless to Batman’s story. I just want Nightwing to solve this. But it still has a strong emotional core, and when actually focused on Batman’s (and Damian’s) character development, it was pretty good.

Batman Incorporated – Pretty good, but the ending with you-know-who was… whatever. It just felt like it came completely out of left field.

Earth 2 – Epic in scope, world building and a lot more fun than the JL books. The characters are a lot more likeable, the art is really good (I like most of the costumes) and the world just feels like it already has more history to it than the main universe... because it actually does.

Flash – Just fun with great artwork (which I prefer to the Batwoman artwork; it’s just more to my taste because it feels mroe vibrant), and some epic set piece moments.

Green Lantern – Was pretty good, although it did drag with Wrath of the First Lantern. The conclusion was epic though.

Green Lantern Corps – Haven’t read any of it after Wrath of the First Lantern, since I don’t care for Fatality, and she seems to be becoming a main character. I’ll wait for the trade.

Green Lantern - New Guardians – Getting boring, especially since they have to keep escalating threats since Kyle Rayner is Jebus. However, it was fun for a while, but the training for Kyle was rushed and, of course, we need Hal Jordan to solve the problem, because… Geoff Johns.

Nightwing – Especially after the move to Chicago. Less angst, more fun. The costume now looks better, since the symbol is smaller and the finger stripes are back. I wasn’t a fan of Brett Booth’s Nightwing, since he looked too much like Tim Drake, but the artist from the most recent issue did pretty good. I’m really liking this book right now. It's nice to see Dick get a supporting cast, and they have potential. A guy who's trying to mvoe up in hs job and also hates superheroes, and a just fun (again, fun has been lacking in Dick's life... or the New 52 in general, really) dorky girl that Dick has adorable interactions with :)

I agree that the allure behind Trinity War was the hope that the old universe was coming back. But it’s decently interesting… but has Wonder Woman being even more aggro than usual, if that’s even possible.

Jesse said...

It's easy to see why this would be such a tough one to get through. I was working on some writing I've wanted to get done for a while on my laptop and had the show playing on my main PC. I confess that I have little or nothing in the way of effective knowledge of comic books. There were still several moments where I found myself stopping what I was working on, to look at my other screen and say, out loud, "What? Wait, why? How does that make any sense?" There was just too much in this first issue that it put potential new readers like me off, even if we really didn't know anything about the characters before the reboot.

The storyline looks like it's going to be a good one, but then, they always are. It'll be interesting to see where it goes.

William Ngo said...

Okay, I was really anticipating this, so I'm gonna let loose on the idiocy.

4:30 – The Teen Titans almost finished their first story arc when this happened, thus dragging it on for so much longer than an opening arc needs to be! Arc fatigue made me drop this book. Apparently, that was a gift, as you yourself told me this book was not worth following. Seriously, this is the Teen Titans, where's the fun?! Hell, Tim, go hang out with Dick! Go unwind! Oh wait, Tim ends up saying that JASON TODD is the closest thing he has to a brother... just... what? Lobdell is THAT inept as a writer, he screwed up both of his ex-Robins! And seriously, what does the New 52 have against Dick having FRIENDS?! Donna's gone. Wally's gone. Starfire isn't talking to him. Roy and him don't seem friendly at all. He and Cyborg don't talk. The people of Haly's Circus (or what's left of it) seemingly hate him now. Aside from his new roommates, his only friends are Damian and Barbara! Oh wait, Damian's dead!

6:18 – I think you mean “Red Robin AKA Robin AKA Tim Drake AKA only ever Red Robin, since he was apparently never actually Robin, according to Lobdell, and because naming yourself after a burger chain screams respectability AKA was Robin, since the first issue of Teen Titans has him looking at a picture pf himself and Batman WITH THE R ON HIS CHEST (although God knows how he even got that picture, does each Robin get one action photo-op with Batman?) and the first issue of Batman has him being called a former Robin AKA probably definitely still was Robin, as the Batman and Teen Titans trades didn’t correct these things..." pointless retcon was pointless. No really, I’m pretty sure Lobdell only said it because people were complaining about how fast Batman went through his sidekicks. Except the name-change does nothing to fix that... the height of stupidity.

12:35 - The zip-things would be useful for peeing… Just sayin’, I don’t know if the suits are full body or anything...

15:25 – Wait... why the hell- WHAT KIND OF PLAN IS THIS?! If you can create superhumans, why would you even do this?! Just promise to give followers powers, and then train them! And why normal people?!

18:11 - Wait, the suits just... why?! Why make the wings glowy?! Tim Drake uses stealth! Oh wait, he’s in red, so he blends in with the background. Harvest's one stroke of genius!

25:09 - I really don’t get Cassie’s anti-Wonder Girl thing. It’s just there. Maybe to try to assert her individuality? I dunno, it just feels like another reason to make her pissy like in the previous Teen Titans series.

William Ngo said...

31:00 – I immediately facepalmed at the “I don’t have to kill you” line. Isn’t electricity the best element to knock people out with? How little control over your powers do you have?!

31:57 – What was even the point of killing Artemis? Damian Wayne uses it to make Tim pissy, and that’s it... Yeah, a popular character (technically, there was an Artemis who went by Tigress who I recall appearing in JSA, but this Artemis is obviously more in-line with the Young Justice version) was introduced into the mainstream universe, just to be stuffed into the fridge. Wow.

32:52 - Who, in this day and age, especially a teenager, calls someone 'slime'?

33:14 – Yes, because non-teens can just go straight to hell. Nobody wants to avenge them.

33:53 – “And so it comes to past” kind of implies this was fated to happen… I’m guessing nothing ever comes of it.

34:50 – What IS unbelievable about being from the future? I don’t know if Bats knows Booster is from the future, but if he does, wouldn’t Booster's file have that info on it? And wouldn't Tim have access to said file? This series seems to portray Tim as his Bat-clone self, so, yeah, he’d probably have read up on that. Hell, it may even be public knowledge that Booster is a time traveler (I can't remember). If it is, the hell?!

Lobdell is easily one of my most hated writers right now. I dread him being put onto a book I like. I think I heard that Kyle Higgins is leaving Nightwing... please, keep Lobdell away! And seriously, we are incredibly lucky Lobdell and Liefeld didn't team up for a Teen Titans/Deathstroke crossover.

LonewandererD said...

Being a reader who came in on the New 52 as my first sortee into actual comics I was hyped for the Culling, this was going to be my first crossover. Well technically second as the first comic I read was Blackest Night but that was in a Paperback collection.

I have had prior experience with the Titans, mostly the cartoons and some back reading so this whole thing just left me.... meh. Nothing really seems to be accomplished here, nothing is expanded on, Artemis is brought in only to be axed off and Skitter just goes bye-bye, so all in all the story loses more than it adds. All in all the Teen Titans has been very... challenging to read, especially now that Raven is in it and she was the whole reason I picked it up and I feel they've doen a huge mistep with her character. Having also read the Legion Lost stuff up until now, where is the mutated metas were coming from, I can say this added nothing there either, Harvest does show up again in their story but for a lackluster ending that just kinda stops.

The only potentially positive thing that came out with this cross-over was the Ravagers series that come out with the second wave and that was then axed and wrapped up in a horrendously insulting way. DC must have permanent butter figner with often and quickly they pick up and drop comics and poor eyesight on top of that with the bad stuff they're adding, a Superman and Wonder Woman ongoing series..... really? This whole Harvest thing just seems to drag down everything around with it, you to let it grow before you Harvest it.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Being a reader who came in on the New 52 as my first sortee into actual comics I was hyped for the Culling, this was going to be my first crossover. Well technically second as the first comic I read was Blackest Night but that was in a Paperback collection."

I'm really sorry that ended up being your first crossover and it didn't live up to your expectations. I really do recommend reading something like Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Infinity Gauntlet, or of course the big recommendation I always give - JLA/Titans: The Technis Imperative to really show how a crossover can be fun and exciting. ^_^

LonewandererD said...

Didn't find it too terrible a experience just a dissapointment, I had Court of Owls to make up for it, though being in Oz means we got it after the US so some things were spoiled though not too much. In my opinion that was a cross over done right, one little step to the side for some comics that didn't interupt them entirely and their involvement was over by the end of their respective issue, though Red Robin was wasted with his ONE panel appearance.

-D-

DJ1107 said...

See this is why I perfer Marvel NOW!.

1. They didn't cancel every title at the start of the relaunch. (Wolverine & The X-men, Captain Marvel, Journey into mystery (Though it is now cancelled due to low sales), Scarlet Spider, Venom & Daredevil to name a few)

2. To my knowledge Marvel's not having this jumbled writing mess DC is having right now. (I repeat to my knowledge)

3. Thunderbolts was the only offensively bad title in the start of the relaunch (despite what some people say Superior Spider-man is good despite flaws, Avengers Arena is great & is actually much more then just a Battle Royale knock-off, & I don't count Age of Ultron since that was delayed & I kinda sorta like that train-wreck).

4. Everyone still has there 60 years worth of story in continuity.

5. They seem to be doing a better job at telling stories for everyone but that could just be me being a Marvel fan.

Anonymous said...

Linkara, I'm not sure if it's too late to comment on your Land of Atop the Fourth Wall video... but to answer your question of why they wouldn't have named him Brigadier Plant...they wouldn't have named him that anyway because it was an American show and the rank of Brigadier doesn't exist in American armed forces. Brigadier General yes, not not Brigadier.

Bellarius said...

Sweet heaven, we have "heroes" screaming, angsting and acting like morons while they punch/murder one another, shadowy figures in the background laughing evilly who will never be explained, convoluted plots which would end the second the heroes just used their brain cells, severe padding, heroes being turned into villains and everyone being written the same. When did the writers of Marvel's big crossover events DC?

Also, Warblade? What the hell did they do to you!?

Ozaline said...

Wow, though Titans is on my pull list I only got one issue involved with this crossover and I basically tossed it into my back issue stack without a second glance because I couldn't follow any of what was going on (wasn't reading Superboy or LL). I can see I didn't miss out on anything.

I am disturbed by how Caucasian that Artemis looks I know she's blonde but the cartoon's design did a pretty good job of making her ethnicity apparent. Also bleh, a very stupid shock death that really did nothing for the story other than give Red Robin some needed characterization and up the imaginary stakes.

Battle Royale of course takes it's name from Pro-Wrestling, the writer in the book discusses his love of the event and the betrayals and plot twists that happen when friends are forced to fight, so name dropping it as you said doesn't really mean anything. It's also not impossible for it to be a Hunger Game inspired story since the novel was already out and very popular and it's not like DC didn't know it was coming. The Marvel version definitely referenced Battle Royale recreating the poster/classroom shot.

But ultimately this fails to copy what works about a Battle Royale or a Hunger Games; both of those stick to their guns on only letting the winners leave a live (both of them have two survivors instead of the one you're supposed to have but that's a different matter), so the drama of the scenario where you have no choice but to go against your ethical code is allowed to play out. Not so here, one already established asshole kills one girl and then the entire brawl falls apart.

Of Course DC doesn't want to loose the usage of these characters, other than Artemis I guess, and aside from movies like Man of Steel will never admit that heroes might run into a situation where even they have no choice. So the story instantly collapses on itself.

This story is a mess.

Anonymous said...

While I still do think that the New 52 is the best thing DC made in the pat 10 years, this review was still hilarious
It helps that Teen Titnas was (and still is) one of the weakest series in the line
Lobdel did a much better job when writing Red Hood and Superman

And still, even at it's worst, the New 52 still manages to be less dumb and insulting than Marvel Now's average

With all it's pointlessness, the Culling still managed to be a better story than Avengers Arena
Trinity War is still better than Civil War (and I did like Civil War), and thus far it seems that "Forever Evil" will probably be better than Dark Reign (which started out good, but became mediocre halfway through)
I mean, the Legion of Doom saving the world from the Crime Syndicate? Sign Me Up!

Also, I do think the "52" is supposed to refer to the number of ongoing titles, miniseries not included

Also also, I generally grew to believe that the higher-ups in any of these companies have no real idea what they are doing
All we can do is just enjoy the ride, wear a helmet, and hope the airbags work

Michael said...

This review just shows my problems with New52, it feels like they dragged DC to become Image Comics circa 1993 in many different ways, while Image today is an amazing publisher with all kinds of varied stories.

A bit on Artemis: she's Artemis Crock, she was already blond in the original continuity but made half Vietnamese for the Young Justice show (Which you should totally see now it's all on DVD if you haven't, it has the feel of the Wolfman era Teen Titans books down pat.)

The funny thing about Young Justice is that since they played with so many things in the DC universe, I heard and learned about characters I've never seen before like Adam Strange or the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle and then I felt like checking out the books and... oh yeah, DC isn't publishing those things before the reboot anymore. Ugh.

When can we return to the True-52?

Jason Helton said...

Ah DC..! Majority Fans complain that Starfire is sexist and they ignore them. Minority fans complain that Power Girl isn't sexist enough and they are all over that. :P

I was actually enjoying the "Legion Lost" books up until they got the soft reboot in "The Culling." Seriously all the build up and then flush...right down the toilet. :(

Anonymous said...

"Avengers Arena is great & is actually much more then just a Battle Royale knock-off"

I can list so much taht is wrong with Avengers Arena, it's not funny.

For example, we have a whole issue about X-23 saying how competently she could kill everyone, and when she gets into a fight, charges HEAD FIRST at the opponent and is beaten.
Or how about the villain who is instigating the deaths (Apex) starts asking who is the real villain, when she is SNAPPING NECKS AND MIND CONTROLLING FRIENDS INTO KILLING THEIR FRIENDS! She even monologues and turns her back on her opponent!
Oh, and then there's blaming the audience for the book! The writers kept saying "No no no! Arena is good! Trust us!" And then in issue 12, they go "See?! You're responsible for this horribleness!"

Arena is awful. Disgusting, mean spirited and just done to piss people off. But of course, people love it because now they're saying "Look how cool these NEW characters are! Don't you want them to survive!"

I'm sorry, but Avengers Arena can never be considered "Good". It's mediocre covered up with pretentious dialogue about life that doesn't even fit the characters.

J said...

I wonder - you mentioned a character called Skitter who disappeared. That triggered something...I did a Google search, and apparently she turns into an insect and was first appeared in December of 2011.

...Kinda coincidental, because the main character of a web series called Worm (which is excellent) is also called Skitter, is also a teenager, and also has insectoid powers (being able to control bugs). She first appeared in July of the same year.

I think I can guess why the DC Skitter has vanished.

Anonymous said...

So this comic not only screws up the Titans and Legion of Superheroes, it also finds ways to screw up Young Justice and WildCATS too.

I know it's a horrible cliche to say this, but this is why most kids and teens moved over to manga.

Anonymous said...

I thought Artemis was a Wonder Woman character. Who was killed off or something after being pretty pointless.

Well, it's not that odd for multiple minor heroes to have the same name.

So what's up with this Bunker panicking? He doesn't do anything in that scene that someone who wasn't panicking wouldn't do. In fact I think it would have been more probable that a panicking person would be too panicked to actually use their powers.

And Omen? The shapeshifter just chomped down on a boy's head while in the form of a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Even if she didn't intend to kill him, she sure came damn close to accidentally doing it.

Anyway I wonder if part of the problem in writing for American comics is an inability of editors, writers and everyone else to be united around a concept. They reboot series to make them more accessible to new readers and create a new status quo, and they promptly put in old characters that no new reader would know and do things to shake up a status quo that hasn't even been created yet. That sounds to me like they wanted to do something new, but only knew how to do something old*.

*Same as Marvel's Civil War, which I still can only see as absolutely wasted opportunity.

BBally81 said...

"The New 52 SUCKS!"

That was the similar sentiment that Pre-Crisis fans had about the Post Crisis universe after Crisis On Infinite Earths.

The difference is that Post Crisis did a better job of balancing continuity. That being said, unlike Post Crisis, the New 52 hasn't screwed up the Legion timeline..... Yet. (I'm a big Legion fan so that was a sore spot for me)

Anonymous said...

you know what the sad thing is?

this STILL manages to be far superior to the vast majority of what Marvel Now released

CMWaters said...

Wow...just...wow.

Why is it DC seems to be so against sticking with stuff that isn't too bizarre and...ugh.

Seriously, what was with that? I'm close to having an anyurism just listening to th inane writing done there.

At least I have an out to help cleanse the pallet. If any of you reading this post want an example of a good recent crossover in comics, just look for the recent Sonic and Mega Man crossover that Archie put out. You don't even need to know anything about the comic history of either side to enjoy it, as long as you have a minimal understnding of the characters in the games. It's written well enough, has a good mix of comedy and action in it, and with one of Linkara's major sticking points for crossovrs...NO ONE ON THE HEROES' SIDE OF THINGS DIES!

Sorry for using this blog as cheap shill, Lewis, but I felt I had to put that out there. If I could afford to I'd pay to have you review those 12 issues, even if they are good, just to get an "outsider's" (as far as the games and comics) perspective on things.

Arianne said...

Ah, that new mike sound. I've never read a New 52 comic and I don't care about the new universe. I'm more of a fan of the animated DC universe than the comic one. As for the review. Lately, I've been feeling like. "Life Don't talk to me about life" lately and this cheered me up:). As for the comic. The Costumes, really? DC and the wangst and the whole show don't tell stuff bugs me.
As for the storyline, What Jaeris is feeling is understandable. His watch is destroyed and he can't find his home dimension. It can make anyone feeling blue. But, I don't like seeing Jaeris drunk like this. It's depression drunk and that makes me want to give him a good whack upside the head and ask him "What would your wife say and do if she sees you moping and drunk like this? " and say "Come on, that booze ain't helpin'!. Also, Pollo is right. " I'm doing this for the greater good" doesn't make you a good guy. It occasionally leads you to the dark side and I prefer Anti hero over well intention extremist on Jaeris's tv trope section. I also think that Pollo and Sierra should put their Rivalry on the back burner if whatever is taking over Nimue cause something.

Crystal Master said...

Wow, talk about a bad day to miss the AT4W episode, now I'm like 14o something posts down.

Oh well, Lewis reads every comment, something I'm grateful for.

So what to say:
Jab at MOS, Awesome
Recommendations: also awesome, but I have to say, I think you should give Batwing a chance, the current run is really good.
My recommendation: I wont bore you with reasons for books you've probably already read by now:
Jeff Lelire's Green Arrow
Superman Unchained
Batman/Superman
Talon
I haven't seen anyone comment on the Tynion run on Red Hood so I'll through in my thoughts, it is a massive improvement. Recommended.
So here's something I'd like your opinion on Lewis/Linkara, do you get a slight pre-2011 Jaime Ryes vibe off of Bunker, because that's who Bunker reminds me of.
Anyway great episode of a truly boring crossover.

Anonymous said...

"this STILL manages to be far superior to the vast majority of what Marvel Now released"

Disagreed.

Hawkeye is great
Daredevil is great
Young Avengers is great if it's your thing
Fearless Defenders is a lot of fun
X-Men Legacy is superb, though has iffy art
X-Men (the all female team) holds a lot of promise.
Captain Marvel is fun
Avengers assemble is light hearted and great
Superior Foes of Spider-Man is only 2 issues old and is very fun.
Scarlet Spider-man ended up being more lighthearted and cheerful than the actual Spider-Man book.

Seriously, don't go after the big name books when the little name ones are a lot of fun! Forget Wolverine, Forget Spider-Man, Forget the big league Avengers! Check out the above and realize that the smaller heroes are the ones who tell the better stories!

Anonymous said...

Great episode. It's too bad dc has thrown out the history of the teen titans. I'd rather your retrospective on the history of the team serve as a prep course for new stories like this, rather than serving as a funeral service. The artwork, to me, looks good, and I liked Cassie and the girl with blood dripping from her eyes. "save it for your therapist, furball" made me laugh. Maybe it's a call back to "hey rust bucket, let go of the frickin' moon already" from Jla/Titans Technis Imperative? Relaunch making these characters blank slates does not serve a big crossover like this, as there is not enough things that have happened to the characters to make what's happening any "bigger" than a standard story.

DJ1107 said...

@Anonymous about Avengers Arena.

So Avengers Arena is awful for killing off obscure teen superheroes yet when DC kills characters years younger then them (Aquaman's son, Lian Harper, Damien Wayne, & Cliff Baker) it's fine? Nice.

Anonymous said...

I'm excited for this series of episodes. I'm one of the guys who loves the New 52, but everything Scott Lobdell touches has been crap. I read several of the early issues of Teen Titans, and the only redeeming quality I could see was the fact that I freakin love Bunker. Unless they change authors soon, the Teen Titans might become one of the (in my opinion, few) true casualties of the New 52.

Ozaline said...

"I thought Artemis was a Wonder Woman character. Who was killed off or something after being pretty pointless."

Yeah different characters, that Artemis is one of the Bana Mighdal and actually took over the role of Wonder Woman for a while in the 90s (she was the EXTREME Wonder Woman), any plan to review something from that run anytime Linkara?

Anyway I don't think she was every permanently killed off, the version of her in JMS' rebooted run died but since we never got back to normal continuity before Flashpoint and all the Amazons got turned to stone shortly after Flashpoint I really have no idea of her current status.

Tracey said...

"Seriously, don't go after the big name books when the little name ones are a lot of fun! Forget Wolverine, Forget Spider-Man, Forget the big league Avengers! Check out the above and realize that the smaller heroes are the ones who tell the better stories!"

which is the exact same thing you should do with the New 52
for example, right now, both The Movement and The Green Team (which I also like to call The Left Wing and The Right Wing) are both incredibly enjoyable
The first one is essentially "Anonymous with superpowers" while the second one is about a bunch of spoiled rich kids trying to use their money to become superheroes (one of them has even bought the Batmobile!)

And while I'm surprised that Frankenstein, Demon Knights, and Dial H even lasted for as long as they did, they were an awesome ride, and in a way, I'm actually glad they ended while still at their peak
Remember, the longer a series lasts, the bigger is the chance for it to turn bad
It's better to go out in a blaze of glory, than slowly rot away

Which remionds me, in you'r recommendation for Justice League International you forgot to mention that only the first story-arc was any good, and that for the rest of it's run, the series has become a picture example of "You care, We kill" withe the entire team ending-up stuffed into the fridge by the series end.
Seriously, the second half of JLI's run is MUCH more deserving of being ripped apart on you'r show than Red Hood and the Outlaws. That series' only fault was a number of inconsistencies, all of which were addressed and explained since. Unlike JLI, they did not kill off established characters in pointless and stupid ways!

And yeah, The Culling, as bad as it is, still manages to be a better Battle Royal rip-off than Avengers Arena.
AA is pretentious and preachy, everyone is out of character, the characters' powers are deliberately misrepresented, and the writers and editors keep treating the audience as morons
The Culling killed-off one semi-established character for shock value. That's pretty dumb.
Avengers Arena exists only for killing-off characters, and the people at Marvel KEEP BRAGGING ABOUT IT!
Marvel: Take complaints about last event as suggestions for next one!

Tracey said...

@DJ1107

Arthur Jr. and Liam both died BEFORE the New 52

Damian's and Cliff's deaths were both treated with respect
Damian even went out as a hero

There's not a single shred of respect, decency, or even talent involved in Avengers Arena

Bellarius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ozaline said...

@Tracey

A review kinda changed my knee-jerk reaction to Avengers Arena, on the site Multiversity comics there's an article which basically makes the claim that Avengers Arena surpasses Battle Royale and Hunger Games (at least in their film versions), in emotional appeal since in those films it's rather obvious who the lead character is and that they're going to be the survivor. And that causes you to instinctively form less attachment to the characters like Rue that you know are going to die.

And that AA, has the advantage of not giving you an odds end favorite and giving each character a chance to be fleshed out and since you don't know who will survive it keeps you more on edge, and makes the losses that much harder to bare.

Dunno if it'll hold true or not but it got me interested enough to pick it up in trade format.

Bellarius said...

"So Avengers Arena is awful for killing off obscure teen superheroes yet when DC kills characters years younger then them (Aquaman's son, Lian Harper, Damien Wayne, & Cliff Baker) it's fine? Nice."

Not exactly. Liam Harper was a mistake as was, in my opinion, Damian Wayne. That being said, they weren't being murdered on a daily basis by other heroes. They weren’t being shoved into battlegrounds, forced to murder one another and, unlike the comic you mention, their deaths felt like they had been done for a reason. The sort of thing which can serve as a memorable point in a story and character's development. Avengers Arena murders characters for cheap shock factor in a non-nonsensical plot which is so full of stupidity, character assassination and plot holes I feel nothing but contempt for anyone involved in it.

Then again this is coming from modern Marvel comics. We should only be thankful we don't have Brian Michael Bendis writing it. Then again if he was shoved onto Avengers Arena, he might not have had the time to relentlessly sodomize the Avengers, X-Men and continue his personal vendetta against Cyclops.

William Ngo said...

"While I still do think that the New 52 is the best thing DC made in the pat 10 years, this review was still hilarious"

HOW was it the best thing? I respect other people's opinions, but only if they're justified. To hook new readers? Sure, but you didn't need to reboot your continuity for that. Just make a new book with new characters, and eventually tie them into the DCU's other characters. Hell, New X-Men - Academy X was what got me into Marvel, and it pretty much did that.

Plus, the laziness behind the reboot. Seriously, Batman's continuity is pretty much entirely intact, yet it can easily confuse a new reader and the timeline is so impossible to comprehend! Same goes with Green Lantern. As Linkara said previously, if you want to get into GL, you have to start waaay back. Unless you research this stuff... in which case the reboot is pretty much pointless. And let's remember, DC WIPED THEIR UNIVERSE'S HISTORY! Judging from your comment, I'm, assuming you're a Marvel fan. How would you feel if the stories you've read and loved had effectively been considered as never happened? Sure, new readers wouldn't mind, but as a fan, surely you'd be pissed. And not only that, but the New 52 also smells like One More Day, in that it's an excuse for editors to do whatever the hell they want. E.g. Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, even though Oracle was her much more popular persona and the fact that Cassandra Cain AND Stephanie Brown both have devoted fanbases. Hell, look at the Titans! I get that Lobdell is trying to go for a tone of teenagers needing the Titans to fight for them... but you didn't really have to wipe away the Titans for that! Sure, now these kids are just starting out and aren't well known, but you could've just as easily used the original Titans and made it a prequel of sorts. Oh wait, then Tim Drake wouldn't have a book... WHO CARES?! Maybe every single Bat-character doesn't need a book! Hell, you could introduced him AFTER the initial prequel storyline. That way, the modern Titans could've had a better life and maybe, just maybe, living in the DCU wouldn't be like living in the Marvel universe! Seriously, it's so paranoid and dark about its heroes, that you'd think they'd have introduced a superhuman registration act.

But whatever, just my rantings at the New 52. The screaming wasn't directed at you, so... yeah :)

William Ngo said...

Oh, and as part of my comment on Dick Grayson having no friends - Batman actually requested that he join the Justice League, and he REFUSED. I guess because he's doing his own thing in Chicago, Death of the Family and Damian's death (if that happened yet in that story, as Bats is actually NOT angsting and Nightwing is being a jerk... for some reason, even though, as of this comment, there isn't a Batman and Nightwing issue of batman and Robin) but it just felt out of place. Oh, and the whole time he's on the Watchtower, he and Cyborg don't speak a word to each other. So I guess they really aren't friends. Oh, and Dick's response to Bats trying to talk to him? "No." That is it. Really. He doesn't even TRY to explain, and the whole time acts like he's annoyed to even BE there. Goddamn, has Johns READ Nightwing? Nightwing as he wrote him had no joy to him.

Anonymous said...

Great review LInkara.

I'm kind of offended with Bunker, though. He's an open homosexual, and yet they put him in a pinkish-purple outfit and his energy powers are colored the same as well.

Keep it classy DC.

(And I actually read every single comment to make sure someone hadn't posted about it already!)

Anonymous said...

Oddly Avengers Arena, despite being an even more obvious Hunger Games rip, handled this concept much better by focusing on character and eventually having the kids team up to fight the baddies. People are now complaining that its marketing was a lie since not enough of the teens are going to die, but that's exactly why I'm loving the book right now! It's turning into a teenage superhero team book, and after DC's failure with the Teen Titans reboot we could use one of those.

Tracey said...

@Ozaline

there's also a number of reviews on Red Hood and the Outlaws, explaining why it's a great series
(and let's be honest, it has to be, seeing how it still survives till this day since day 1, and how none of the three protagonists are really big name characters who could keep a series alive be their mere presence), yet it does not stop people like Linkara from hating it

also, if Avengers Arena is so well written, then why didn't they just use a completely original cast of characters instead of killing established heroes, if they don't even bother to keep them in character, or understanding how their powers work?

BurningResurrection said...

I have to agree with Tracey here

if you are going to review Red Hood atO, you should also review the second half of the JLI
Way to ruin a great series for the sake of pointless angst

Anonymous said...

"HOW was it the best thing?"
It's elementary, my good sir
before the New 52 came along, the only DC titles I was following were Batman Inc., Secret Six, and Power Girl
Since the New 52 came along, my DC list became expanded with All-Star Western, Animal Man, Aquaman, Justice League Dark, Stormwatch, Action Comics, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman, Demon Knights, Frankenstein, I. Vampire, O.M.A.C, Dial H, Green Arrow (the Jeff Lemire version), Sword of Sorcery, Earth 2, The Movement, and The Green Team

The best part is that even if a great series does get cancelled, it's almost immediately replaced by another awesome title

and yes, for several of these, a re-boot WAS necessary

"How would you feel if the stories you've read and loved had effectively been considered as never happened?"
I went through three different incarnations of the Teenage Mutant Ninje Turtles
Four versions of the Transformers
Two versions of the Thunder Cats, two versions of My Little Pony, and two versions of G.I. Joe
I think I'll manage

"New 52 also smells like One More Day"
No, it does not
One More Day took away the last shreds of dignity Peter Parker had left
Killing him, and replacing him with Doc Oc was an act of mercy after that

"Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, even though Oracle was her much more popular persona"
Since when?

"living in the DCU wouldn't be like living in the Marvel universe!"
Trust me, right now, the DC universe is a much nicer place to live in

Anonymous said...

Haha. A homosexual male wouldn't be caught dead in a pinkish-purple outfit. Nothing classy about those wretched colors! I think Bunker would have a better eye for the costume he dresses in. The name Bunker may also be offensive in some way?

Anonymous said...

Okay, seriously, I'm going to lay it down for people.

Avengers Arena is crap.
People act like it's a deep book, but it's very mean spirited and shallow.

Out of all the characters dead so far, only ONE gets a funeral. You know who that is? The character the writer wrote for the book. You know who else dies? A kid who's anniversary of his series was this year!

And you know what they do with his body? They play with it and toss it like a rag doll! In fact, the only response we get to his death is "Oh."

Sure, the book doesn't kill every issue, but the characters are so mindlessly stupid! Apex is the only one killing other kids, and she tries to go deep that she's not the bad guy! Oh, and then the book completely destroys the Runaways!

Oh, and facts the book forgets: The kids were kidnapped on Christmas Eve, characters are too dumb to use their powers when appropriate, and so much "Oh, can't do that" with no explanation behind Nico!

Really, all people praising Avengers Arena have read jack crap of the previous characters, and the writer is trying to make people love HIS new characters as he slaughters off characters we loved for years!

So yeah, go claim that the book is "Good", and that "It's not a meat grinder" or any of that. Point being, it's killing likable characters for no reason other than "It's fun to watch likable characters die!"

Oh, and you can tell the writer has the biggest bias for Cammi. A girl who was stuck in space for years yet is more confident than everyone else and can even pick up social cues that the other kids don't? Why isn't she just plain special!

Seriously, Avengers Arena fans, go read Avengers Academy, Runaways then the Sentinel, THEN come back to me and say "Avengers Arena is good". Because what it's doing is an abomination to teen marvel!

Aldo512 said...

I honestly feel like Scott Lobdell is one of the worst writers at DC right now. It doesn't help that he seems more focused on where he wants the characters to be rather then how he gets them there and leaves inconsistencies between issues in crossovers. Particularly in his treatment of Supergirl during H'el on Earth, which really deserves it's own review eventually, though it's really long, but especially in how he treats Kryptonite. He seems to think that Kryptonite hurts them by them touching it rather then it being radioactive and even being nearby causes them pain (something that was already established in the New 52) and sees no problem with H'el surviving getting stabbed through the chest with a piece, presumably left bleeding for quite some time, yet continuing to survive while Supergirl just held it for a few minutes and now she's fatally ill to show that Kryptonite is more powerful here, even though leaving H'el alive invalidates that...This was supposed to be about the Culling, but Lobdell just really pisses me off.

As for the review, it's probably one of the funniest I've seen in a while, though that may be because I've actually read this and seeing it get torn apart is cathartic for me. That said, I do have one question regarding the TRON suits: How did they get Kid Flash into his? More specifically, how did they get him out of his old one? About two or three issues before this, they had to give Kid Flash a brand new costume because the Speed Force was tearing him apart and he needs to wear it to live. I'd say Lobdell just forgot about it, I wouldn't be surprised there, but the issue right before this one had Kid Flash panic when he thought Omen took it off him for that same reason, so he apparently remembered to include THAT but forgot to follow up on it in the actual crossover. I'd ask for consistency, but I've come to stop expecting that from the New 52 once everyone started acting like Hal was a member of the Justice League despite quitting pretty early on.

Sierra M. Jackson said...

I didn't like The Culling either because I felt it could have been a Superboy story arc instead of a crossover since Harvest's origins was explained in Superboy #19. At first I thought Harvest's reason for The Culling and creating Superboy was to fight off an alien invader in the last story arc of Legion Lost but it turns out that the purpose of The Culling was to create an army to serve his "son", which happens to be the son of Superman and Lois Lane in an alternate timeline, to fight against Metas.

It really bothers me that it took so long to explain why Harvest wanted to do The Culling and clone Superman in the first place.

Ave said...

This definitely seems incredibly 90s. Sadly, I do know Lobdell can write. I maintain that his Generation X is quite good. It was the first comic I was subscribed to while growing up, and the only teenagers in comics that felt like teenagers to me.

Also, I should mention that NOWHERE is likely an appropriation of the Men from NOWHERE, an organization that opposed the Doom Patrol during Grant Morrison's run. It saddens me both as a Morrison/Pollack Doom Patrol fan (why haven't they been introduced into the reboot?) and knowing what the organization was: a secret organization working deep under the Pentagon who was committed to absolute order and wiping out all weirdness they saw (and were freaking creepy--as that series knew how to do). Really, people should read Morrison's Doom Patrol.

Anonymous said...

@Aldo512

And yet Lobdell is the only writer who can currently write an interesting Superman, who's name isn't Grant Morrison

Anonymous said...

I'm just adding the titles I forgot to mention the last time

Batman and Robin, Batwoman, Batman Incorporated, DC Universe Presents, and Batman (alto I stopped reading that one after "The Death of the Family" when I found out that the next arc is going to be one huge flash-back)

I guess I got thrown-off when I mentioned Batman Inc. as one of the series I read before the New 52

DCUP was a generally hit and miss anthology series, but the good generally outweighed the bad
The Deadman 5 parter was amazing
The Challengers of the Unknown 3 prater was disappointing
The Vandal Savage 3 parter was awesome
The Kid Flash one-shot kinda felt incomplete
The Black Lightning & Blue Devil 4 parter was pretty good
The Red Hood and the Outlaws 2 parter was decent
The Beowulf one-shot was really good too


And yeah, for Avengers Arena
the whole thing is essentially a Mary-Sue fanfic
you know, thesort that features tons of popular characters all getting their asses kicked by the writer's OC?
yeah, that one

seriously, if they love their new characters so much, why didn't they at least cast the whole series with OC's to begin with?
after all, they don't even bother to characterize the established characters properly
not only are they out of character, but their powers don't even work the way they are supposed to!
in other words, they could very well be new characters anyway!

This is why the New 52 is superior to Marvel Now
With the New 52, you got a fresh start
any inconsistencies with the previous portrayals (Starfire's bloodlust, Beast Boy's different skin color, Terra being alive again and not amnesiac or a former traitor) can be easily explained as these being new versions of the characters
Marvel Now on the other hand keeps all of the previous continuity, and yet constantly keeps contradicting it!

And seriously, the Culling was still better than Avenger Arena, BECAUSE NOBODY OF ANY IMPORTANCE DIES!

Anonymous said...

Oddly, I agree that this is worse than Avengers Arena.

Arena is still a horrible, tell-don't-show, poorly thought out, moronic bile. But it IS still better than this.

#10 of Arena earned itself a review from you, IMO all by itself, even if you can go back through the issues and make for yourself a "Stupid Katy Moment" in the vein of SF Debris' "Stupid Neelix Moment." Katy is on that tier, but only in hindsight. It's odd. Whenever Dennis Hopeless focuses on a character, he more often than not makes them un-interesting than when he was only hinting at things.

But it's evil is closer to that of Identity Crisis than The Culling.

Anonymous said...

and yet, even after two years, DC's sales are still higher than they were before the New 52 came along

go figure

Doresh said...

Let's see:

- Editorial mandates
- Nonsensical stories
- Unnecessary shock deaths for the sake of shock deaths
- Poorly planned crossovers
- Tie-ins upon tie-ins for said crossovers (maybe not for this crossover, but the next ones seem to have LOTS of them)

THOSE are the real problems of DC, not the eeeeevil continuity. The higher-ups of DC can reboot their universe as often as they want, but this won't magically solve the problem of them having no idea how to run the company and keep pulling the same kind of crap that got them into this mess to begin with.

Sure, there are good stories in the "New" 52 - but ask yourself: Are they good BECAUSE of the reboot, or DESPITE it? And was the old continuity really in the way of the new stories? And if so, did it really require to throw away EVERYTHING to "fix"?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"and yet, even after two years, DC's sales are still higher than they were before the New 52 came along

go figure"

Oh? Which sales in particular? Since the last I checked, they've pretty much returned to pre-New 52 levels for a lot of books.

Information Geek said...

In response to Lewis, who stated:

"Oh? Which sales in particular? Since the last I checked, they've pretty much returned to pre-New 52 levels for a lot of books."

There is a guy whoever on the CBR forums who crunches the numbers in terms of sales. This is what he posted recently:

"July update:

DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Jul) 2013 - 15,607,464 estimated units.
DC Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Jul) 2012 - 16,455,769 estimated units.

And here are the figures for 1997-2012:


2012 - 29,602,125 estimated units
2011 - 26,522,201 estimated units
2010 - 23,528,000 estimated units
2009 - 24,126,336 estimated units
2008 - 25,760,378 estimated units
2007 - 29,597,217 estimated units
2006 - 30,243,575 estimated units
2005 - 26,995,698 estimated units
2004 - 23,895,322 estimated units
2003 - 22,344,120 estimated units
2002 - 20,687,488 estimated units - Dan Didio joins DC as VP of Editorial.
2001 - 21,220,332 estimated units
2000 - 23,243,656 estimated units
1999 - 25,141,760 estimated units
1998 - 22,869,060 estimated units
1997 - 26,323,968 estimated units


And, out of interest, here's the Marvel numbers:

Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Jul) 2013 - 19,351,825 estimated units.
Marvel Sales - Top 300 (Jan-Jul) 2012 - 17,232,601 estimated units.

And here are the figures for 1997-2012:

2012 - 30,278,745 estimated units.
2011 - 29,522,809 estimated units
2010 - 29,998,200 estimated units
2009 - 34,167,744 estimated units
2008 - 37,269,988 estimated units
2007 - 38,132,744 estimated units
2006 - 34,647,105 estimated units
2005 - 32,461,832 estimated units
2004 - 32,021,066 estimated units
2003 - 28,974,336 estimated units
2002 - 28,473,404 estimated units
2001 - 25,349,296 estimated units
2000 - 21,948,494 estimated units - Joe Quesada becomes EIC.
1999 - 24,111,104 estimated units
1998 - 27,015,555 estimated units
1997 - 32,664,192 estimated units"

Numbers seem higher in terms in sales moment (though DC is down from last year in July, but then again, they had Before Watchmen going at the time). I think they are doing pretty decent in terms of units.

Roy said...

I'll bite on the New 52 discussion. As someone who is not into the current DC Universe, or reading individual issues of comic books on a monthly basis, I thought the idea of a brand new universe was interesting. Practically all of the uh, what do you call it? series, all of the series were being released as trades. I got the Justice League issues 1 to 6, and was very excited to read it. I like the Justice League when Grant Morrison was writing, in the 90s I think. It was bad. Killed my excitement for the idea. The characters were hollow shells of their former selves. My opinion is this. You can't just take away all the great work and development these characters have gone through, and expect them to READ the same. I read Batman Court of Owls, and yeah, it's awesome, but only because they gave Bruce Wayne/Batman most of his history back. The New 52 is just a bad idea any way you slice it.

Thank you for your kind attention, Linkara.

Anonymous said...

@Roy

Check Lemire's Green Arrow (issue 17 and onward)

it's awesome, and it works BECAUSE he got the chance to re-invent the character

same goes for Azzarello's Wonder Woman

they took relatively famous but mediocre characters, and made them interesting

Anonymous said...

@Doresh
"Are they good BECAUSE of the reboot, or DESPITE it?"

I will actually say BECAUSE
Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Dial H, Earth 2, O.M.A.C., Justice League Dark, or Demon Knights either couldn't exist without the re-boot, or were breathed new life and relevancy by it

Roy said...

Okay, just watched the beginning of this video again. Paused it. Glad Gail Simone is back. You can get fired for e-mails? That explains a lot. I've got some time to myself, so I'm going to put on Batman Begins. Relax for a few. I've had a really busy last few weeks. I've read a lot of the comments, and it seems other people are digging the new 52, which is a good thing.

-Roy

Roy said...

I agree with Linkara's position. I got into comics by searching Barnesandnoble.com and finding Essential X-men Volume 2 by Chris Claremont. It's my favorite Graphic Novel. Dark Phoenix saga is my favorite storyline. I bought the comic book with Wal-Mart money, a cashier job that I loved. I worked part time while a senior at St. John's Prep in Danvers. Smoked a lot of good pot back then. I'd buy movies like Jackie Brown and Reservoir, get home, relax, smoke a bowl, and watch them. The uncanny x-men of the 70s has a special place in my heart.

I have a new favorite author. Rick Remender has taken all that history from Chris Claremont's stories (I've read through volume 8 of the essential x-men series), and used it to create an even better story. Uncanny X-force is my favorite trade. I'm currently on Volume 7: final execution, and it's the best comic book ever written, in my humble opinion. Fantomex and Psylocke, two characters I've never read about, are now my favorite characters.

So to me, it's sad that they threw away the history of Linkara's favorite team. I watched the second half of Dark Knight instead, btw, as it was already in my PS3 and paused at the part before Batman Interrogates Joker.

Doresh said...

@Anonymous:

A new "Dial H" series could've simply be handled with a legacy character.

"Earth 2" is pretty much its own thing anyways, apart from its connection with Power Girl and the Huntress, but that's not really required.

"Demon Knights" takes place hundreds of years in the past; any inconsistencies with the old continuity could simply be handwaved with "stuff happened in between".

As for the others: I dunno to be honest. I presume simple writer change could've done the trick.

Veronica said...

Thought this amazon review was funny

7 of 14 people found the following review helpful
1.0 out of 5 stars One of the most disappointing books of the New 52, January 7, 2013
By Lisa - See all my reviews
This review is from: Batgirl Vol. 1: The Darkest Reflection (The New 52) (Hardcover)
When I heard that Barbara Gordon would be leaving the wheelchair she's been seated in for decades, I was worried but I tried to not let the negativity affect my reading of this book. However, it wasn't only Babs' ability to walk that got changed in the reboot. Batgirl stumbles through her first issues as a barely competent vigilante, despite incessant narration that tries to convince the reader otherwise. She gets herself into situations by rushing in without any planning at all--which would be fine if this book was about a character whose most defining trait was her intelligence.

The dialog was very unnatural and hard to follow, but the real issue with the writing was that not a panel could go by without Barbara narrating her every thought and action. I don't mind thought bubbles, but this just seemed like Simone had no trust with her artist to convey movement and action. It didn't help that Barbara seemed to be taking cues from Patrick Bateman's self-help book.

Anonymous said...

This is why I'm Marvel fan folks, while DC was busy slaughtering their teen heroes in this pointless and stupid crossover, Marvel had Avengers Academy and Runaways. While Avengers Arena has been pretty okay and the deaths so far haven't been nearly as offensive as I thought they'd be. At least its not written by some hack from the 90's looking to play the same tropes he'd run into the ground more than 20 years ago.

Well rest assured, once anything that's not related to Batman or Superman is cancelled, the DCU will be a lot more smaller and consequently a lot more boring.

TimeTraveleJressica said...

So glad you took a swipe at the 45-year-old thing. I've been lamenting for a while that while I can perpetuate the cycle of geekiness for my adorable second cousin Aidan by handing him Marvel Adventures and Spidergirl comics without shame, there is extremely little from DC I can give him unless it's like forty years old without his mother wanting to strangle me. Seriously, has DiDio never seen how excited kids get about Superman? I have never been able to fathom how someone who is obviously such a money-grubbing creep could ignore the potential for revenue offered by periphery demographics.

Ian said...

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I really liked the movie of v for vendetta. thought it was a huge improvement over the comic version, which was crap.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I really liked the movie of v for vendetta. thought it was a huge improvement over the comic version, which was crap."

...Aaand what does that opinion have to do with this video or the Culling?

Anonymous said...

I know this is off-topic, but as a Power Rangers fan, you might find this interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNefE89DZds

ps.
@Doresh

Actually, Dial H DID require a re-boot, seeing how it's origins of the H Dial completely contradicts the previous ones
In the original continuity, the H Dial was created by a wizard, and was connected to the user's imagination
This H Dial was created by a highly advanced civilization from an alternate dimension, and it's power came directly from the multi-verse

Also, as far as I remember, the Shining Knight in the previous continuity had a Y chromosome

Anonymous said...

"This is why I'm Marvel fan folks, while DC was busy slaughtering their teen heroes in this pointless and stupid crossover"

Are you kidding me?
Stuff like that is what made me stop reading Marvel and move on to DC

are you sure you did not confuse the company names?

Craig said...

Are you sure you're not confusing the company's names Anonymous? DC's been killing off it's teen heroes far more often then Marvel.

Sure Marvel has Avengers Arena but DC's been doing it long before the Culling started. Members of the Teen Titans have been dropping like flies for years for example, then there was nasty stuff like killing off Stephanie Brown during the a Gang War storyline in Batman awhile ago or Lian Harper being killed in Cry for Justice.

Face it, DC's been WAY nastier to their teen characters then Marvel.

Anonymous said...

@Craig

obviously never read X-Men...

Anonymous said...

Oh dear prepare for angry comments from hard core Young Justice fans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigress_(DC_Comics)

though someone already pointed that out

Ian said...

@Linkara

V for Vendetta is a DC property, is it not? It's bad enough DC destroyed Batgirl with the Killing Joke, now they're trying to ruin Zack Snyder's reputation by giving him badly written nolan/goyer scripts to film. Kind of like how they ruined Green Lantern by maintaining Geoff John's terrible continuity. All that happened in five years. Sure it did.

Craig said...

Ian, how exactly was Green Lantern "ruined" by Geoff Johns? Sure I'm not terribly fond of the character of Nekron but aside from that the Green Lanterns are more popular then they have been in ages. In fact, they're so popular that their continuity survived the reboot intact. The only other character who can claim that is Batman.

Craig said...

@ Anonymous, you obviously haven't read Teen Titans, Batman, Flash or any other DC Comic recently. The former Teen Titans characters having been dropping like flies for ages now and who can forget Bart Allen being brutally slain after he took up the mantle of The Flash?

In fact, of the five characters who've been Robin three have been brutally slain. Marvel isn't the company that slayed a character by telephone poll after all.

Foolkiller said...

Again, not exactly related, but..Something I kind of would like to see looked at is the Dragon Strike comic book. (Yes, it's based on -that- game, that Spoony riffed on.) Maybe crossover material? Then again, I've never read the comic, so I don't know if it's review material or not. But given what it's based on..

Ming said...

That was terrible. Bad enough the new 52 Teen Titans book is a mishmash of tropes from the 90s, but this? They introduced Artemis (a character from Young Justice who was basically based on a Justice Society adversary) only to kill her off for what is essentially shock value? Dear God, these people should be ashamed of themselves.

Great review. I expected Red Hood and the Outlaws, but The Culling seems ten times worse. I expect to see more beatdowns against the New 52.

You know, I had this impression that a lot of stories in the New 52 didn't need a freaking post-Flashpoint reboot (Batman Incorporated vs Leviathan, Justice Leagues vs David Graves, et al). I wonder if in five years, DC will bring back the old continuity as a separate universe or just throw out the new 52 in another Crisis-type story.

I can't help but feel pity for Jaeris, considering what happened in the finale. I wonder if this will be a subplot for the Culling reviews.

Doresh said...

@Anonymous:

"Actually, Dial H DID require a re-boot, seeing how it's origins of the H Dial completely contradicts the previous ones
In the original continuity, the H Dial was created by a wizard, and was connected to the user's imagination
This H Dial was created by a highly advanced civilization from an alternate dimension, and it's power came directly from the multi-verse"

You do realize that the original Green Lantern was powered by magic, whereas all the others use technology?

You also realize that the first Blue Beetle got his powers from a magical artifact - until the third one rolled around and it turned out it was an alien device all along?

Legacy characters have never been required to be a 1:1 copy of their predecessor. They might use similar powers with a different source, or just take the original motif and do their own thing. That's half the fun of these new guys.

Anonymous said...

@Doresh

"You do realize that the original Green Lantern was powered by magic, whereas all the others use technology?

You also realize that the first Blue Beetle got his powers from a magical artifact - until the third one rolled around and it turned out it was an alien device all along?"

Exactly, and all of these were re-boots

Doresh said...

@Anonymous:

Though DC Comics did in fact had a reboot in the Silver Age, they ultimately brought back the Golden Age characters (like Alan Scott) in the form of a parallel world. The old characters still existed, and most of them (like Alan Scott again) spend more time in the new world than they did in the old.
Heck, he and his kids even became members of the new Lantern Corps.

In the case of the Blue Beetles, you have to consider that the scarab used by Garrett and Reyes is outright stated to be the same. They even teamed up once. That's not exactly an earth-shattering reboot.

le-messor said...

Wouldn't most 45-year-olds have been raised on the bronze age?
Wouldn't they be among those people who left comics-reading in droves during the 90's?
So DC is giving them the 90's style stuff to say they're writing comics for them...

~ Mik

Anonymous said...

I keep coming back to that cover and the terrible artwork. Red Robin's left arm appears to be detaching from his shoulder, I guess it's trying to escape the book any way it can.

Also, I'm troubled by Ciaran Hillock's comment on 12th August about steep comic prices in the UK. Which terrible shop does that? (So I can never go there.) I've always found the converted prices in Forbidden Planet and Travelling Man shops pretty good, I would recommend those places if you can get to one.

Mask said...

There was hype about the Hunger Games movie from all the book fans, so they might've timed it for that. Support.

The 90s was 20 years ago... These are the writings of people raised by the Dark Age, that grew up thinking it was cool. Same as the effect in movies of all the remakes. Oi.

Anonymous said...

I was going to give the DCnU another try...

Then I saw what they did to Lobo.

http://omelete.uol.com.br/images/galerias/Lobo-Novos-52/Lobo-Novos-52.jpg

What the frag, DC?
Why?

Now I guess we're in for another fraggin' "dark age"...

Cottonballz29 said...

I admittedly did like the Man of Steel movie, but I understand why others wouldn't like it and I respect their opinions. The only New 52 thing I've read is Aquaman. I liked it a lot, but at the same time I've just gotten into comics and haven't read anything from before the reboot for Aquaman or, well... anyone. So for all I know what I've been reading is a horrible travesty. If it is I'd love for someone to point it out and direct me to a different Aquaman series to read.

Off topic. On one hand I find the disclaimers and warnings in the video funny, but then I realised that they were meant to be completely serious and that there are people out there that're really stupid and petty enough to not be able to accept another person's opinion and... yeeeeah. Kind of got depressing when I realised that. Being a reviewer must be tough...

Random said...

Best thing about New 52...an attempted revival of Resurrection Man. It is my favorite "unknown" book from DC. And of course much like after his series died in the 90s, he won't be acknowledged by the universe as a whole, ever again.

Julz Chan said...

Hi Linkara, this is my first time commenting, but I~d like to say wonderful job tackling the culling! I`ve been reviewing the Teen Titan comics myself for a while, however I ignored it because to me it was a waste of time, dumb, and not to mention I was a bit lazy. But after seeing your review I realized that I couldn`t have tackled this crossover any better than YOU! Some of this stuff I haven`t even noticed till you pointed them out! Wonderful! And yes comics do need more light in them. I may be a fan of dark colors but even I know when things get overdone.
Love your vids,
Julzchan !

Anonymous said...

I actually really like the New 52, but since you're a hardcore titans fan I can see where you're coming from.

Teen Titans was probably one of the worst treated books in the entire line, I'm actually surprised it wasn't among the first to get cancelled

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