The battle to save- erm, the battle to preserve- uhh... the battle for- ...what are we all fighting for, exactly?
Monday, August 19, 2013
The Culling, Part 2: Superboy #9
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108 comments:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
"My name is Superboy... I'm a clone."
I was expecting that to be countered with the "I'm Joe Friday... I'm a cop" line given all the Dragnet love we've seen here.
WHAT AM I FIGHTING FOOOOR??!!!
(And that's why Megaman X4 is awesome)
Happy Birthday.
At leat the number this time was fine on the art, and i think that Robin is talking about death people out the sight of the viwers of the comic, bad thing because then it is confuse.
Anyway, you have made a fun work.
I never thought that comics could use color-filters. I mean, I am mostly gamer and sometimes get really tired of filters (this always orange color in Mass Effect 2 which haunt you through all the game and there is no escape from it). But why us this in comics? Why? I don't get it. I mean, if it is something art-hous-y thing, then yeah, by all means, but this is definitely not the case of first part of Culling.
you never made the comment, everybody wants to be like batman that you mentioned in your man of stell review...
you also didn't forgot last week to include farnkstein and the agents of Shade in the new 52 books you like...
I just turned 28 a couple of days ago! I'm sure watching your show all the time now is the best present I can give you.
I didn't know if you considered using the Superboy Prime voice for the Superboy character at one point, or maybe saving it for another comic.
Even I think that whole "comics for 45 year olds" coming from DC is total BS! I'm gonna stick with Marvel because at least they have no age limit!
Happy Birthday, Linkara!
The Lack of Colour? Is that like how ‘Man Of Steel’ looked like it was trying to be a recreation of a Black & White Superman Serial!?
What’s wrong with Colour in the World!?
Also, doing it to make it ‘Realistic’…Yeah, Cause Colour is something that doesn’t exist in the Real World…except it does!
Seriously!? Why does DC think; “If we make this Hero, who people like, a Villain, We’ll get positive feedback!”
No! That’s’ not how it works DC! Seriously, you’d think after all the negative backlash, they’d take a hint!?
Although, I wouldn’t mind seeing another Top Fifteen List from you! =3
And at least there’s a reason behind why they don’t mention Kid Flash being from the Future.
Warblade getting knocked out by a rock sort of reminds me of Khan in “Into Darkness”. He’s able to take multiple punches to the face, without flinching, can get shot by stun numerous time, but can shrug it, Able to resist a Vulcan Nerve Pinch, But a piece of metal is able to knock him out.
Nice Review though, Linkara. ;3
Looking forward to seeing more from you! =3
Happy Birthday Lewis
Yeah this issue was the most tolerable of the 4 by a long shot.
Oh and speaking of hero's turning evil, do you have any thoughts on the stuff going on in the TeenTitans book right now, with Raven being kind of evil again?
Someone else is probably going to point this out, but I'm just going to go ahead and say it: when discussing Warblade's defeat at the hands of a rock, you totally missed an opportunity to use a clip of Killer Croc's "It was a BIG rock" line from Batman: The Animated Series.
Great review, and happy birthday, Lewis!
Personally, with regards to how the rock hurt Warblade, I was just thinking about that line from that one episode of "Batman: The Animated Series" from Killer Croc:
"...it was a big rock..."
Maybe the rock hit Warblade's one vulnerable spot?
What's it with comics, movies and video games these days spending so much time, effort and money on making their product look as unappealing, washed-out and confusing as possible? What is there to gain?!
And if DC hates color so much, why not go the manga route? Saves A TON of money.
The sad thing about this 45 year target demographic? Those are the people that were young adults during the 90's. That's why their stories have regressed into the Dark Age <_<
Sadly, I can't really fault the comic for Warblade's weakness to stone. After all, Alan Scott can be killed by pointy sticks.
Though I get the feeling that Warblade is not actually supposed to be weak to stone... <_<
Harvest seems to be fond of the internet argument technique of "Winning by Losing"...
P.S.: What's up with Harvest's hands in that panel? His right hand has four fingers (with the two middle ones possibly being merged together), while the other one is normal o_O
Happy Birthday Lewis.
I liked your rant about colours ins comics because i understand your point. As a fan of manga which are mostly just kept in black and white i dislike sometimes coloured pages because the colours just don´t seem right.
Also i had to laugh at the pokemon reference at the end ^^
Hello! I was recently over in Ohio visiting a relative. At one point, we went to a garage sale, and guess what I found there? Youngblood trading cards. Now, I was wondering if I could send them to you so you could autograph them or something of the like. Hey, they'd be worth more if you signed them.
oh, I know why warblade got knocked out. he has a pokemon esque health bar. superboy beat out most of his hp, and the rock hit him just enough to make it reach to zero. thus instant ko.
at least that is my logic for it, what little there is here. the motivations of the villain are paper thin and at both times obvious evil evil, i'm a bad guy behavior, and just simple insanity..... cause you are right, it is far more difficult to disable a bunch of hostile attackers than kill them. of course I doubt harvest would be smart enough considering his idea of a good idea is gathering a bunch of heroes turned villains and not expecting them to gut him at a moment's notice....... I mean seriously, it never occurred to him that warblade there could have, I don't know, simply pretended to serve him till he got close enough to has his claw do a xenomorph chestburster impression on harvest?
you actually lost me when you said superboy levitated the lava, for a bit. I became so used to the sueprboy from young justice I forgot that the original template for his powers was some kind of psychic ability to simulate superman's many abilities rather than him simply having a few of superman's powers. some reason I rather prefer the young justice concept. he basically has all of superman's strength, durability, and sensory abilities, but lacks flight.... I liked this because it actually showcases how come superman is so strong. it seems that a massive bit to his power is his levitation abilities. it allows him to move more quickly and hit harder against enemies, combining increased momentum that flight allows with his already great strength. it puts more technique to his moves than ismply smash.
ifd you think this is bad, I bring up the abomination Avengers Arena......... this part was self removed because it devolved into a basic hate speech over marvel and the idiocy that was avengers arena.
it is a sad day when My Lillte Pony is the only comic I feel safe reading these days (brony, I would not say I am. a fan of a show that defied my expectations to a great level, I would say I am.)
.....wow you are only a year older than me, forgoing rage for a moment.
Congrats to your 26 years, Linkara.
I honestly had little expectations from The Culling back when I first read it, so much so that I had all but forgotten about it. With your look at it, I'm beginning to remember it and can see that my initial impression about it were verified.
Looking forward to the next few weeks and how much more you can rip into this 'event'.
BTW, I do consider this episode a present for myself, having hit 25 today.
Ugh. So glad I didn't waste my time with Teen Titans after the first issue.
Mind you, I think your review is showing less that the New 52 sucks and more that Scott Lobdell's plotting and writing sucks. Which sadly means that we've The Superman Family, Teen Titans and The Legion have been tainted beyond repair along with Roy Harper.
At least we still have the DC TV Universe to look forward to, right?
Scott Lobdell helps write a crossover wherein a villain named Harvest kidnaps teenaged super-people and clothes them in tech-suits which help to inhibit their powers. Out of this crossover a new series launches featuring some of the teenagers as protagonists.
Did I just describe 1994's the Phalanx Covenant, or 2012's the Culling?
another great review, Linkara. you're a leo? ::swoons::
Obviously Warblade's a Super Saiyan. Bathing in lava? Not a problem. Repeated punches to the face? Bring 'em on! A rock to the head? IT HURTS AND STINGS!!
The reason you are seeing more orange and blue is because it is a cheap trick with the eyes to get you to like things more.
Just as adding shadows creates a false sense of depth and detail in characters (see the early days of HD games).
Orange and Blue in combination have a similar effect in regards to the emotion of a scene.
To be simple they are colors that make you think, Conflict. Its combining fire and ice to add emphasis to a scene.
IT IS WORTH MENTIONING THEY DID IT WRONG THOUGH.
In short its the contrast of orange and blue like a blue sky and orange explosion that really works.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrangeBlueContrast
oh and happy birthday
I get the feeling your title artist is a big fan of Banjo-Tooie… : )
Happy Birthday!!!!
I agree that the artwork for this part is more enjoyable than the last part.
Well can't wait for next week's episode for part 3, and Metacon.
Happy Birthday again
Harvest is kind of an idiot isn't he? He keeps teenage meta-humans in a hellish place for months and then makes them fight to the death to become his personally lap-dogs and doesn't even consider the option of having his minion with psychic powers to control them so they don't try anything like this.
Also Happy Birthday Linkara, but doing this isn't much a great thing to do on your birthday is it?
Can't wait to see you continue pointing out the illogic in this crossover next week.
Sadly even what little we saw was too full of points to nitpick to write them down. That's probably one of the worst signs of a bad writer, when the work constantly has minor issues on top of its major issues.
This 4 parter is pretty decent so far
Also Happy late Birthday :D
OK, first of all, I call bullshit on the whole "comics are made for 45 year olds"
if that was the fact, we'd get more titles like Animal Man, and Dial H
that would be a good thing!
to me it seems like comics are aimed at the 13-16 demography, seeing how they are full of things this age group THINKS is good story telling
this is also why Marvel is more popular - they give the kids what they THINK is good writing, rather than actual good writing (while DC tends to mix things up - notice how it's usually DC's best written titles that don't sell that well)
That's how Red Hood and the Outlaws survived for so long
that whole series is essentially kept alive by teenage yaoi fan-girls
Trash like Avengers Arena will continue to exist for as long as 13-year-olds think that death and angst equals high literature
Happy Birthday man. Hope it was alot better then this comic.
Maybe the snow's a reference too Jewish hell.....we believe in a hell of fire AND a hell of ice.
Promethium isn't fictional...
What you say about colour is interesting. Some comic artists, particularly indie artists and those in the UK, still work primarily in black and white. It can actually look really good - in fact, Pat Mills deliberately sought out Patrick Goddard and Leigh Gallaher for Savage and Defoe respectively because he wanted monochrome as a deliberate choice.
Happy Birthday.
Comic Book Resources not a great web site for reviews. 3 1/2? Surprise they didn't give it 5 out of 5 the way they those out to any crappy book marvel and dc need to push.
That opening page reminds why I hate what they did superboy. They tried to make almost like Young Justice version but that worked better. Done better but really waste for the character in comics since we knew WAY better character. But hey who needs character development and things like that. We need to just everyone lame and emo. ::Face palm:: I mean no matter what you want to say about Superboy 90's series that lasted a 100 issues. It gave in first issues more personality, more characterization, better supporting casting then the reboot one. Cause interesting in the reboot one was all ruined characters from either dc or wildstorm universe. Superboy doesn't decide to burn Rockefeller center christmas tree in 90s series. That did happen in reboot comic.
Love the Banjo Tooie joke in the title card!
Happy Birthday, you old so-and-so!
Happy birthday, Linkara!
I really liked the pokémon joke at the end.
Wow. As a trade reader, I am PISSED. Yeah, the Culling did suck but I personally felt the following arc on the island was much better (haven't read beyond that, I read trades but I was borrowing my friend's issues for TT up to 12 or so). So even though I'm going to get the 2nd trades for TT, Superboy, and Legion Lost, I STILL have to buy the stupid Culling trade for the Annual since I prefer not to have gaps in my collection? Wow DC, way to fail your customers.
Happy birthday, Linkara! I hope it was a good one!
If this crossover was an effort on DC's part to draw in new readers, I'd say they're not doing themselves any favors, at the very least. I'm certainly not any more convinced to go buy their books than I was before, and sometimes wonder if things like this don't actually cost them readers in the long run
Happy Birthday!
Well Lewis, happy birthday. Hope it was a good one
i'm sick of all of the blue filtering they put in movies. especially in day-for-night shots. is it too much to ask for them to wait a few afters and shoot AT NIGHT?
I suppose it would be just too obvious of a joke to point out that Harvest is a real NOWHERE man.
Thus far I'm only aware of four DC heroes that have been turned evil as part of the reboot. They are Warblade, Omen, Ravager and Dr. Mist.
I was kinda hoping they were the only ones and find it disheartening that Linkara can think of enough to fill a top 15 list.
To your cover artist, I love use of the twin bosses from Banjo Tootie, the fire and ice dragon in Hailfire Peaks. Kudos to the artist.
I am also a big fan of Hi-Fi's coloring style. He did the coloring for Justice League International as well, so a nice connection there. He also did the coloring for Sword of Sorcery for the Amythest storyline and it was bright and colorful as well. I give that whole comic a recommendation as well that I'm pretty sure you would like. It was sadly cancelled, but it is one of DC's best when it was out (and it's all nicely collected into one volume).
This might seem cliched ,but Happy Birthday anyway! :D
Oh sweet! A Banjo-Tooie reference for your title card this week. Linkara your title card artist never stops making the gamer in me smile.
But Linkara, it was a big rock that he hit him with! *is Gibbs-slapped for the comment*
Now that that is out of the way, I never could understand why it is that certain villains (or organizations) believe that the best way to recruit people into your army is to force random people to fight to the death. If anything, you'll only gain the loyalty of the unpredictable people that you need to watch out for. The others would most likely hate your guts and want to see you dead. Honestly, has there ever been a medium in which this was done sensibly?
Either way, happy birthday Mr. Lovhaug and Linkara.
Good god, that's Warblade? I would not have guessed at any point from the art, even once the fight got going.
I wonder if he's going to retain his alien hybrid history, which would further explane N.O.W.H.E.R.E.'s projects, being more hybridization programs than outright genetic engineering.
Living weapons? *Cue Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars reference*
Happy B-Day.
Also, Avengers Arena takes place underneath Antarctica...proving that crappy ideas think alike.
Lewis, regarding Dawnstar's ability to knock out Warblade by chucking a rock at him: my theory is that she has the same powers with low-level technology as Ewoks and Na'vi: in her hands, a rock or a spear is deadlier than a Science Police standard issue blaster pistol. Warblade never stood a chance. That, or she used her tracking ability to choose the precise location and velocity to hit Warblade on the noggin and knock him out. Actually, I'm going with my latter theory; it's much less stupid.
Oh, and happy birthday Lewis! Don't worry, one of these years you'll be old enough to buy a DC comic! :D
I would have used "We Want a Rock" by They Might Be Giants for the ending...considering that rock was more powerful than 100% of everything else they did to that guy.
Yeah, better colors may be one thing but theyr'e still Tron suits fighting in tough to comprehend battles. Though you are right about the Superboy focus: at least with it his comic, he at least had focus and probably at least in that case it worked...even with the random guy who showed up to die.
Oh and if you don't have Neil Young before the end of this arc, then it won't be a real "Harvest".
I'm surprised you didn't make a reference between the magic rock thrown by Dawnstar and the magic brick thrown during OMIT.
Oh. So THAT'S why I like Warblade's design. He's not an originalcharacterdonotsteal from these hacks! He's just a canon defiled one!
First of all Happy Birthday, Lewis! :)
And no, you're not too old for these comics. These comics are too immature for most people. I was a fan for 40 years and things like New 52 drove me AWAY from comics rather than appeal to me. Thank goodness for the cartoon and movie adaptations (not counting Man of Steel.)
Btw have you ever seen the Anime Tiger and Bunny? It's a WONDERFUL homage to American superheroes done in Japan, of all places. Don't let the Buddy Cop humor fool you; this has more heart (and nails the tropes much better) than so many comics in years. It's available in English now, so I highly recommend it.
The "Tron" uniforms actually reminded me of Loonatics Unleashed.
You pronounce respite like a British guy.
Happy birthday, Linkara!
Even though I knew Warblade, it's always a bummer when a hero is turned into a villain, that's even worse when said villain is also a terrible character.
By the way, great pokemon joke at the end.
Happy Birthday!
I've never commented before, but I love your work and find it honest and refreshing to someone who loves comics. Thank you.
Regarding the death count, I feel like Robin might be talking about the people who were in previous Cullings, that they wish they could've stopped those before all those former participants had to die.
Granted, it still wouldn't make TOO much sense, considering there's no possible way they could've done anything about it since they had no foreknowledge of the Culling at all, but it certainly makes more sense than pretending a death toll of two is a mass slaughter. That seem logical to you, or do you think maybe I'm just extrapolating a bit too much?
Happy Birthday and man this comic suckssss !
Expanding on my comment last week about NOWHERE maybe being a retooling of the Men from NOWHERE, I also realize that Lobdell has been introducing a few Doom Patrol things into Teen Titans. I know they have Danny the Street, too, who is a character I can't bring myself to believe had his history erased. He's a freaking sentient transvestite street, so obviously Doom Patrol that his inclusion without the Doom Patrol is criminal.
I was also looking at the Teen Titans' second trade today in Barnes and Noble and saw that Skitter reminded me a lot of Generation X character Penance. So Lobdell is not only rehashing the 90s in Teen Titans but also producing a poor copy of one of his own characters.
Next thing you know, he's going to break out both the Scissormen of Orqwith and a character that's a poor-man's copy of M.
I'm not saying Marvel has better colorists than DC right now... But that's exactly what I'm saying. Justin Ponsor, Matt Hollingsworth and whoever is coloring All New X-Men (when I was still reading it) are my personal favorites.
Am I the only one who thought of Ultron when I saw Warblade?
9:20 - Well, the art is decent, but the faces are bland and the poses are just that - poses. Why is Rose Wilson looking into our souls?
11:20 - Oh, they'll find a way. "An island of tranquility" will probably be what they take.
11:59 - Clumsy exposition is clumsy.
12:38 - Hey, just because he's a giant rock-thing, it doesn't mean he can't be a cultured rock-thing.
14:53 - Ah, Tim Drake's Batification continues...
18:50 - That is just... what? That logic is... huh? My brain hurts.
19:16 - That was incredibly awkward...
22:38 - Yes, stretchy powers. That's gonna help you against Superboy. How did he even hold back Superboy's punch?
24:04 - Maybe killing stretchy-guy took a lot out of him?
25:10-25:35 - Did Harvest just break the fourth wall? Did the writer squeeze that in intentionally, just to warn the reader and say "this is the best we've got, guys, just roll with it."? After all, bad comics do tend to have a single line seemingly indicating that the writer realised what they'd just done.
I personally liked the art in the previous issue allot more
mind you, it's not because of the filter, but rather because the characters had more personality in it
in this issue, they all look painfully bland and generic
Happy birthday :)
Nice review.
I see what you mean about the colouring. This book seemed more clear than last week. Especially since it seemed less like everything was glowing.
You said you read an essay about it; I was wondering if you still had the link to it?
Damn, I forgot something in my last post: Happy birthday, Linkara :D !!
And I think this scene with Warblade would've made more sense if he was actually shown to be beaten up pretty badly beforehand. But then we wouldn't have a comic about "awesome badasses!1!" that fight with 100% efficiency as long as they have at least 1 HP left <_<
This is a little belated, but happy birthday. Also I find that DC's comment about "making comics for 45 year olds" is idiotic.It's basically Paul Pope complaining that DC won't publish his idea called "Battling Boy". Its pretty hard to publish a kids book as a main DC series when most of the books is rated T for teen. Also Paul mention he's 45 years old and loved the comics thats were out there currently. So it ended up being two sides having a different story over who said what. Other then that great review and can't wait to more on this really bad crossover.
Happy Birthday Linkara
I HAD NO IDEA IT WAS YOUR BIRTHDAY HAVE A GOOD ONE BUT HAVE A BETTER ONE NEXT YEAR AND JUST KEEP GOING UP FROM THERE
Fun fact about the opening narration to this? It never ends. I don't remember when it started, but every issue of Superboy begins with the same "I'm a clone created by NOWHERE as a weapon" monologue almost verbatim. I guess it's an easy way to clue in new readers on what's happened before, but it gets annoying really fast if you read it on a monthly basis
Happy Belated Birthday Linkarra!!!!
I will admit the artwork is a little bit of a step up from last week's fiasco, btw what is the green plushie with the three red eyes on your shelf ? looks like something that could be in The Simpsons. p.s. at least your half way through this train wreck.
"I will admit the artwork is a little bit of a step up from last week's fiasco, btw what is the green plushie with the three red eyes on your shelf ? looks like something that could be in The Simpsons. p.s. at least your half way through this train wreck."
Go back and check the title cards for the Thing from Another World reviews. ^_~
OK, I'm going to give this one more try. *Fingers crossed*
Hope you had a good birthday. :D
This comic..my Lord. I do agree that it looks better than the assault on the eyes that was last week's, but there's still no story, the villain has the thinnest of motivations, and why turn two characters evil for no reason other than turning two characters evil?
(Also, today is Lovecraft's birthday. I think I'll go watch the LOTD episode to celebrate.)
Happy Birthday.
Do you know the Superboy series from the 90s? Is it any good?
Ugh...
Okay, leaving aside all your, and indeed my, other comments regarding this issue and the rest of the crossover, there is one thing I'll say:
When oh when oh when are Comics writers going to learn that protracted curb-stomp battles, where the hero tries loads of tricks and ideas to stop the villain, but he laughs them all off casually, are. not. interesting!?
Showing the villain to be powerful? Sure, that's a good way to create tension and drama. But when the entire issue is spent with the hero trying many, varied, sometime clever ways of defeating the villain, and the villain basically just goes "Nope! Nope! Nope! Very nope! Nope! Ooh, Might have worked, but nope!" to every single one, it's just boring, not to mention frequently contrived. We're not going "oh, will this one work? Will he defeat the villain this way?!" We're going "Yeah, we know this one isn't going to work, just get on with it so we can move on the the next futile tactic." Even when the (frequently non-sensical) successful tactic is found, we don't care!
Sure, curb-stomp battles can have many effects - they can be funny, tragic, victorious when the heroes do it... but I cannot think of a single instance where they have been or could be tense or dramatic in the same way as a conventional fight scene.
Take the battle with omnipotent Doom at the end of Secret Wars. We're not meant to feel suspense about whether Cap's charge will work, but heroic inspiration as he gets up again after each attempt, literally refusing to die.
Or how about the battle with Hyperion in Exiles 63-65 (I think). There the focus is not on the battle being dramatic, but how damaging it is to the crystal palace and the team, and whether they could stall him long enough for Blink to get reinforcements.
Heck, even the battle with Prometheus in Cry For Justice at least was only meant to establish how dangerous he was (Sure, it did it incredibly stupidly, but at least it was a legitimate use of the Curb-stomp battle).
Even Power Ranger's curb stomp battles wouldn't last the entire episode.
I mean, the battle in this issue isn't too bad. Sure, we're not interested in Superboy's battle with Warblade because, as stated, we learn pretty quickly that nothing's going to phase him (except a rock to the head... yeah.), so we're just waiting for the end. But there's at least more stuff to focus on, i.e. Superboy's feelings about his origins and former colleagues.
Come next issue's battle with Harvest, however... oh man are we in for it.
TL:DR version: if you're going to have a protracted curb-stomp battle, don't try to make it a legitimately exciting action scene.
On a lighter note...
Mr Linkara, others have noted the title card's reference to Hailfire Peaks from Banjo-Tooie, from which I got a quite delightful fangasm, I assure you. However, I'm curious - do you yourself have any familiarity or fondness of the Banjo-Kazooie games?
DC: '' We only make comics for 45 years old'' apparently that comment was a joke made 8 years ago.
Since you mentioned that quote twice in your videos, could you please talk about how it was just a joke blown out of proportion?
A lot of sites have reported the quote, but almost none of the same have updated their stories to hear what really was said.
Please lets be fair with DC, its all I ask.
http://www.newsarama.com/18704-paul-pope-clears-the-air-on-controversial-dc-comics-quote-teases-future-projects.html
"Since you mentioned that quote twice in your videos, could you please talk about how it was just a joke blown out of proportion?
A lot of sites have reported the quote, but almost none of the same have updated their stories to hear what really was said.
Please lets be fair with DC, its all I ask.
http://www.newsarama.com/18704-paul-pope-clears-the-air-on-controversial-dc-comics-quote-teases-future-projects.html"
No, I won't, since that article is misleading - it didn't clear the air at all.
At best, they made it in a joking manner, but the point still stood that they weren't interested in trying to attract all-ages material or even material for younger kids - that they were only interested in attracting so-called adult demographics.
The interviewer kept trying to spin-doctor the damn thing with "But they didn't REALLY say that word for word, did they?" And Pope just kept responding, "No, that's exactly what they said."
IMHO, the interview didn't help anything and just maintained, in my mind, at least, that DC is not legitimately interested in getting kids and teenagers to read comics... or if they are, they have a gross misconception about what they should be doing in order to get them to do so.
And as I said in the end credits, it may have been from 8 years ago, but the same people in charge of the company back then are the same people in charge of it now and I don't see anything different in their tactics and approaches.
Yeah, Linkara. I don't like that they're ignoring doing a good job with the Titans because they're "unpopular." The team has more potential for good stories, and not only did they can their history, they put Scott Lobdell on. Not that he's bad, but I read a couple of stories by him that were included in the graphic novel "X-men New Genesis", and his inclusions were sub-par at best. And oh yeah, I guess Psyclocke was in that. Sorry for the blunder.
"Thus far I'm only aware of four DC heroes that have been turned evil as part of the reboot. They are Warblade, Omen, Ravager and Dr. Mist."
DC, not so much. Wildstorm, a hell of a lot. Nearly all of the Wildcats save for Grifter and Voodoo (neither of who were done justice), the Engineer (who turned evil then was erased from time), Fuji (who was turned evil and reduced to a generic goon), Grunge (turned into an agent of N.O.W.H.E.R.E.), and others besides them. Nearly all those who haven't were not done very well or were supplanted by more popular Wildstorm heroes, such as the Authority replacing all of Stormwatch in their own title.
Oh, and for those wondering how badly Warblade was done, he looks like this in the original universe and has T1000 powers rather than just claws:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/1/10837/1681019-warblade_by_konjur.jpg
... Sorry, still angry over a lot of decisions following the New 52 merger.
Okay, most importantly, Happy Birthday to you Lewis!
After that...so on or around your birthday you reviewed a terrible New 52 book...you must have done something to really tick yourself off.
Other than the art getting better, this is a pretty forgettable event. Seems like a sign, combined with the "writing for 45 year olds" that maybe DC needs to change some management. I'd suggest you send in a resume but I have a feeling you are too intelligent for the job. Although if you do become editor in chief, after you bring back Demon Knights...would you mind bringing back Dial H? Yeah I'm the guy who asked you about it last week, for some reason it wouldn't let me log in right now, turns out they ended Dial H too. Downside, no new issues. Upside, it was a great issue that wrapped things up nicely.
I'm hoping that The Culling will become more interesting in the final issues (though I doubt it). Oh well at the very least, you get more rant fodder.
Dark Patrician
to the previous Anon
NO, just no.
I don't mean it as an insult, but Lewis would be TERRIBLE at running a comic company
it would be just another case of inmates running the asylum, and let's be fair here, Lewis has pretty bland tastes (as he himself admitted)
I sincerely doubt he would even allow awesome titles like Dial H, Justice League Dark, I. Vampire, Doom Patrol, Transmetropolitan, Hitman, Lucifer, Planetary, or The Authority to exist in the first place
We'd just get a ton of generic, over-exposed superhero stuff, featuring generic plots and generic, bland goody-two-shoes protagonists
I would never be able to follow a company like that
@Mad Andy:
You what the worst part about this battle between Superboy and Warblade was? I didn't even get the feeling either was in any kind of danger.
Sure, it is mentioned how Warblade would've almost cut Superboy to pieces, but that's about it. Superboy does not even look like he broke a sweat o_O
As for wether or not "DC is for 45 year olds" is true, it is suspicious that DC does not offer much for younger audiences.
Sure, they had this Teen Titans comic based on the cartoon, but all the main series feature too much gore and violence.
"to the previous Anon
NO, just no.
I don't mean it as an insult, but Lewis would be TERRIBLE at running a comic company
it would be just another case of inmates running the asylum, and let's be fair here, Lewis has pretty bland tastes (as he himself admitted)
I sincerely doubt he would even allow awesome titles like Dial H, Justice League Dark, I. Vampire, Doom Patrol, Transmetropolitan, Hitman, Lucifer, Planetary, or The Authority to exist in the first place
We'd just get a ton of generic, over-exposed superhero stuff, featuring generic plots and generic, bland goody-two-shoes protagonists
I would never be able to follow a company like that"
I disagree. I'll concede that he probably wouldn't approve The Authority unless they made one hell of a sales pitch. But I don't have any the evidence that Lewis wouldn't let titles like that run, at least at first. He strikes me as thinking that story is the most important part. If the story is good than he would probably let other things slide.
If anything he might make some titles better by calling out the bad authors on their mistakes and giving the good authors more titles to work on and tell the stories they want.
Dark Patrician
But since then DC has published a lot of all ages comics: Beware the Batman, Tiny Titans, adventures of Superman, Young Justice, cartoon comics like Scooby Doo, Green Lantern ( based on the animated series )Lil Gotham... the new 52 also is a proof that they don't care that mucbh about 45 years old
Even the Justice League comic was tonned down so kids could get into it.
And lets not forget about the animated series, they cancelled Green Lantern because it wasn't selling TOYS, so it means that they were aiming towards kids with that one.
Does that says to you ''we only make comics for 45 years old''?
And yes, the article says ''it was a comment blown out of proportion''
And again, don't you think is a little unfair to talk about the comment in TWO videos and then not mention that posibility that it was a comment taken out of context.
I mean you did talk about (twice) as if it were a fact, make a big deal abouit but when it comes to the other side of the story? Yeah, lets put a little comment after the credits, because we all are well awate of those and we don't think about credits as the end of the show... ( Every episode is someones first )
Seems a little biased. Like when it comes to trash DC, lets do it in a big way, but when it comes to say '' maybe it was not like that'' is just a small whisper that no one really notices.
Now a lot of your followers think that is a fact as well or that the comments of ONE person made 8 years ago were made last week and that they represent the feelings of an entire company.
Not trying to say you are a bad guy or anything, again, I just want to be fair with DC, its not fair that its getting so much bad press without telling the whole story.
Kinda like how there wes this popular blog that said '' Millar, McFarlane and other literally just said that women should not read comics!''
And they never said anything like that, even in the '' fictional rape is as bad as fictional decapitation '' that Millar said, the people reporting that did't bother to add that he is also glad that '' women are reading more comics today than in any other time on my life, which is something really good''
But nope, it was all about how he said that rape was ok or some bs.
Millar, McFarlane, and the others stated that women aren't into reading superhero comics, which is blatantly false and then said that comics weren't supposed to innovate anything or be at the forefront of any kind of social change, despite the fact that superhero comics are so goddamn far BEHIND social trends that it's ridiculous.
As for trashing their efforts for all-ages material, how much promotion do those all-ages titles get? And do you really think that DC decides what cartoons are produced or cancelled? You imagine more power in a comic company than they actually possess.
No, instead they're pushing villain month, something they've done before within the last 5 years that wasn't all that interesting to begin with, but this time they push 3D covers as a gimmick. THAT is what they have chosen to produce and promote. And you can tell me that they're not trying to produce comics for 45 year-olds, yet they don't make their comics accessible to younger people, don't try to tone down violence or make it less continuity-prone when we've got crossovers left and right between books that don't need crossovers between them, don't reduce prices to make it easier for kids to buy comics, and they don't try to have brand recognition and synergy WITH those cartoons. And even if you wanted to argue that trying to cater to younger readers is a futile effort, they don't try to match up with the reader tastes of the PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THEIR BOOKS. Most comic readers or potential comic readers these days are actually people in their early-to-late 20s! The people who grew up on those cartoons and use social media and see comic memes and panels and material and would love to actually START reading! And when they go to conventions and ask questions about why the character they're interested in and love isn't being given any affection? They're mocked, disregarded, and ridiculed by the creators and higher-ups.
And then you have the creators, who seem to be jumping ship left and right as we hear more reports from DC about the editors breaking promises, changing directions, or just being too difficult to work with.
You know what? You're right. They DON'T want to make comics for 45 year-olds. They want to make comics for THEMSELVES and damn anyone else who might want to read them.
@Lewis
"As for trashing their efforts for all-ages material, how much promotion do those all-ages titles get?"
They promote them quite regularly on the official DC site
and I did actually see promotions for Lil' Gotham packed-in with some of their digital comics for starters
and seriously, if they were making comics for the 45 year olds, they would keep the original continuity, seeing how those would be the only people capable of reading it in the first place
"yet they don't make their comics accessible to younger people, don't try to tone down violence or make it less continuity-prone"
You obviously don't know kids these days
Looking at the enormous COD crowd, I'm surprised DC is as upbeat and colorful as it is
thrust me, if dem kids had more of a say, everything would have a brown filter
red and purple filters are too colorful for them
"they don't try to match up with the reader tastes of the PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THEIR BOOKS"
what the hell are you talking about?
they so far match up perfectly with my tastes
I mean, sure, the stuff I like has the bad habit of getting canceled, but thus far they always gave me more than enough to love
"we hear more reports from DC about the editors breaking promises, changing directions, or just being too difficult to work with"
in other words, editors being editors
"They want to make comics for THEMSELVES and damn anyone else who might want to read them."
You know, I've heard numerous artists, writers, and musicians say that this is the only correct way you can do things
If you are not doing it for yourself in the first place, the work in insincere and lacks a soul, and therefore can never be good
I hope this isn't too far off the topic of this video, but I ordered Batgirl Vol 2 Darkest Reflections last night. It's annoyingly out of print (hardcover version, paperback will be released Oct. 23 so it's libra). had to order it from a guy or store in texas. I read several of the volume ones when they first came out, justice league, animal man, court of owls, wonder woman, batgirl, and I think that's it. Still want to read demon knights, but I forgot all about it. What annoyed me most when I heard about the new 52 was having four batman series. Only one of them was good from what I hear, as expected, and so much happening to the character dilutes him, and forces crossovers between those titles to intertwine. Animal Man and Wonder Woman were okay, but didn't hook me enough to want me to follow those stories. Not sure how many batman titles there are now, or what the crossovers they have now are about. Some stuff was hinted at in the end of Justice League, but that book was so stretched out, and I now operate at the assumption that a lot of DC stories are being stretched out like that. They took 4 months to reveal Darkseid as a villain? And he was pretty cookie cutter. That's my problem with the reboot, the stories feel shallow without the character depth that I've seen in older versions of the characters. I'm going take a shower, now.
I mean Knightfall Descends. Just dusted off darkest reflections actually, and am reading through issue 2.
"They want to make comics for THEMSELVES"
sorry, but isn't that a good thing?
" but this time they push 3D covers as a gimmick"
so the good old days are returning :D
I mean, as someone who got into comics back in the 90s, I kinda miss those sort of thing
back then, publishers knew how to get creative with their stuff
I seriously hope they'll start including trading cards again as well
@Linkara
"Millar, McFarlane, and the others stated that women aren't into reading superhero comics, which is blatantly false"
Any proof of the contrary?
"As for trashing their efforts for all-ages material, how much promotion do those all-ages titles get?"
Lil' Gotham got some major promotion on DC's website when it launched
"And do you really think that DC decides what cartoons are produced or cancelled?"
They did run a poll on which of the DC Nation shorts should be turned into a full show
"You imagine more power in a comic company than they actually possess."
Says the man who's mad at DC for the Man of Steel
(hey, at least it's was the first profitable Superman movie in decades, and much less embarrassing than Superman Returns)
*continuation*
"No, instead they're pushing villain month, something they've done before within the last 5 years that wasn't all that interesting to begin with"
Never heard of the previous one, but I DO find Villain Month to be a VERY interesting concept
I'm actually kinda desperate, because I'm not sure which ones to get. They all look awesome (except for Relic, he's a pretty damn lame villain, I'd much rather have Atrocitus, King Shark, or Larfleze get the issue instead)
I literally know each one of the villains, despite the fact that I barely read comics before the New 52 came along, they are THAT well picked
Each of them either had an appearance in a cartoon, a movie, or were featured prominently in a recent story-line
sure, some of them are different from how I remember them, but that makes them MORE interesting
"And you can tell me that they're not trying to produce comics for 45 year-olds"
Duh, if they were marketing to that demographic, there wouldn't be a re-boot in the first place, seeing how 45 year olds were the only people who were around long enough to even keep track of all the plot lines
*cont*
"yet they don't make their comics accessible to younger people"
I had literally no problems to get into the New 52 titles, and I never really read comics before the re-boot
all the things I knew about the characters, I knew from the cartoons, and it was enough to make me feel at home
"don't try to tone down violence"
you obviously never talked to kids
most kids today play ton of M rated games (even tho they should not), and watch allot of anime
These comics are pretty damn tame compared to that stuff
"or make it less continuity-prone"
I had absolutely no problems with continuity so far, and I actually picked-up two series halfway through (Green Arrow when Jeff Lemire took over, and Superman when Scott Lobdell took over)
"we've got crossovers left and right between books that don't need crossovers between them"
so far I had no problem keeping track with the crossovers, and I went through 6 events thus far (7 when including the current ongoing Trinity War)
In fact, Trinity War is the first event where I started skipping some tie-ins (only read the Justice League titles, and completely ignore the Trinity of Sin titles), and so far I have no problems keeping track of the story
"don't reduce prices to make it easier for kids to buy comics"
and now you are just being a dirty liar
reducing the prices was one of the first things DC did after the re-boot, and they are still cheaper than Marvel
"and they don't try to have brand recognition and synergy WITH those cartoons"
I actually find it more interesting when writers and artists put their own twists on characters
so far each of the cartoons and movies I saw had their own unique version of the characters, so I have no problem warping my head around the characters being different
Not only that, but despite the differences, I was still able to get a grip on the characters thanks to what I knew about them from the cartoons
"they don't try to match up with the reader tastes of the PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THEIR BOOKS."
You mean they are not trying to match-up with YOUR tastes.
You are being a pretty selfish little man (and I'm actually younger than you)
There's WAY too many series published at the moment that I love, and so far only 2 comics made me genuinely angry - the first issues of Superman before Lobdell took over (SO DAMN WHINY!), and the ending of Justice League International (THAT ENDING SUCKED! it not only ruined JLI, but somehow also managed to ruin O.M.A.C.)
"And when they go to conventions and ask questions about why the character they're interested in and love isn't being given any affection? They're mocked, disregarded, and ridiculed by the creators and higher-ups."
And by "ask" you mean "throw temper tantrums?"
Bacause that's what most of the old fan-boys seem to be doing on forums
I didn't throw a tantrum when Hawk and Dove, Static Shock, Men of War, O.M.A.C., Blackhawks, Resurrection Man, Frankenstein, Sword of Sorcery, Demon Knights, Legion of Super-Heroes, Dial H and Threshold got cancelled
And even tho the ending to JLI pissed me off, I just accepted it,
I won't be harassing the people at DC to bring back Rocket Red, O.M.A.C., or August General in Iron
I simply accept that they are dead/turned-evil, and just go-on with my life.
I think the old fans should get one of those as well.
"we hear more reports from DC about the editors breaking promises, changing directions, or just being too difficult to work with"
In other words, editors doing their jobs? XD
"You know what? You're right. They DON'T want to make comics for 45 year-olds. They want to make comics for THEMSELVES"
at least they'r not a bunch of sell-outs XD
"and damn anyone else who might want to read them"
so far, I'm not complaining
Lewis, when you say you read an essay about the colours recently... was that by any chance the one I wrote, that I linked you to a few videos ago?
If it is, awesome! And, if it is, for Anonymous August 20th:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/02/23/comics-catfish-and-colour-oranges-are-not-the-only-fruit/
~ Mik
Adding to my previous reply
I will say that despite following many New 52 titles (probably too many), The Culling kinda went completely under the radar
I never picked-up Superboy (the previews didn't impress me) or Teen Titans (I really didn't give a damn about the team's line-up)
I did get the first issue of Legion Lost, but I did not continue buying it, as I did not like the direction it seemed to be going
the stuff I DID end up following was:
FIRST WAVE
Action Comics (dropped it after Grant Morrison left, then picked-it back up after Scott Lobdell took over)
All-Star Western
Animal Man
Aquaman
Batman (dropped it after "Death of the Family," after finding out that the next arc is going to be one big flash-back)
Batman and Robin
Batwoman
Blackhawks (cancelled after 8 issues)
DC Universe Presents (canceled after 19 issues)
Demon Knights (cancelled this month after 23 issues)
Detective Comics (dropped it after the story with the Dollmaker ended, both for financial reasons, and because the previews for the next story-line didn't capture my interest)
Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. (cancelled after 16 issues)
Green Lantern (dropped it after Third Army/First Lantern ended, because I felt the series peaked, and it would make no sense to go beyond that point)
Green Lantern Corps (dropped it after Third Army/First Lantern ended, due to financial reasons)
Grifter (dropped it after the fight in Paris, for financial reasons, and because the series began to drag, later got canceled after 16 issues)
Hawk and Dove (canceled after 8 issues)
I, Vampire (cancelled after 19 issues)
Justice League Dark
Justice League International (cancelled after 12 issues and an annual, but I wish I had dropped it back when it was still good - so much money wasted!)
Legion of Super-Heroes (cancelled this month after 23 issues)
Men of War (cancelled after 8 issues)
New Guardians
O.M.A.C. (cancelled after 8 issues)
Red Hood and the Outlaws {picked it up out of morbid curiosity, and because the team line-up was closer to the Teen Titans I knew from the cartoon, and I don't regret doing so, it's a flawed series, but SO MUCH FUN!}
Red Lanterns
Resurrection Man (cancelled after 12 issues)
Static Shock (canceled after 8 issues)
Stormwatch
Suicide Squad
Supergirl (dropped it after H'El on Earth for financial reasons, because I thought her character-arc came to a satisfying conclusion)
Superman (dropped it after the fight with Lord Helspont, because I hated the writing, freaking Shinji Ikari could give Superman lessons in manliness!, then I picked it back up after Scott Lobdell took over, and let me tell you, Lobdell's Clark Kent is a better Peter Parker than Peter Parker could ever hope to be)
Swamp Thing
Wonder Woman
SECOND WAVE
Batman Incorporated (concluded this month after 13 issues)
Dial H (cancelled this month after 15 issues)
Earth 2
G.I. Combat (cancelled after 7 issues)
The Ravagers {picked it up, similarly to The Outlaws, because the line-up reminded me much-more of the Teen Titans from the show, and even tho I ended up dropping it, I did enjoy the stuff I read} (dropped it after the fight with Brother Blood due to financial reasons, and because the previews did not make me interested in the next story-arc, later cancelled after 12 issues)
THIRD WAVE
Sword of Sorcery (cancelled after 8 issues)
FOURTH WAVE
Threshold (cancelled this month after 8 issues)
Constantine
it was also around this point that I picked-up Green Arrow, after Jeff Lemire took over
FIFTH WAVE
The Movement
The Green Team
Larfleeze
Batman/Superman
even after several titles getting cancelled, and me dropping a few titles, I'm still following 22 titles, because I'm genuinely enjoying them!
Thus far I'm only aware of four DC heroes that have been turned evil as part of the reboot. They are Warblade, Omen, Ravager and Dr. Mist."
DC, not so much. Wildstorm, a hell of a lot
Well in all honesty-most Wildstorm heroes were practically villains to begin with. If you ever read the Captain Atom: Armageddon series, they make a point of showing that people in the Wildstrom Universe didn't love and respect superheroes as much as they outright were afraid of them.
this week's awesome moment, from a series you don't read
http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ww23c.jpg
http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ww23d.jpg
http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ww23e.jpg
http://thanley.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/ww23f.jpg
Great review of this comic. Art seems more tolerable, not that it helps that it's still The Culling.
Regarding your last comment: The more I look at DC, the more I feel that the freaking idiots in charge of editorial are just throwing comic after comic without any regard of what the public really thinks. Days like this I wonder if the Hologram should have succeeded in blowing up DC.
Loving this review so much and Happy Belated birthday. I'm lucky enough to be friends with a comic shop owner and have read every single piece of the New 52 and I can tell you the bad to good ratio has been more or less 50/50. For what ever reason the Teen Hero Line suffer the most.
Oh and I can say that the sort lived Ravagers book was leagues better then this current Titans that it was a smart move to indorse it with the tag line.
Scott Labdell is an anomaly in writers because his New 52 Superboy and Superman are fun an interesting takes but Red Hood and his Titans are such colossal train wrecks. Also Superboy 19 gives us Harvest's and Superboy's origins and it's pretty stupid. The nutshell of it is Harvest is a timetraveling William Stryker and Superboy is X-23.
@Cletus
"Any proof of the contrary?"
Red Hood and the Outlaws should be proof enough
the majority of the series unironic fans I've encountered were teenage girls
seeing how the series has survived till this day (and outlived numerous better titles), I assume they are a quite powerful market onto themselves
but to be fair to the girls
I'd pick Jason Todd over Edward Cullen any day
"we hear more reports from DC about the editors breaking promises, changing directions, or just being too difficult to work with"
"in other words, editors being editors "
"In other words, editors doing their jobs? XD"
Sadly, I have to agree with these
Editors seem to be the most unreliable people out there
Like when me and 3 other people (including the head of the project) were group-writing a crossover fanfic (we took on the extra challenge of making it an "original flavor fic" - meaning it was supposed to feel like the actual workit's based on)
The rough draft took about a month to finish
Then we sent the rough draft to a fifth person, who would be our editor
Her role was to spell-check it, and iron out our writing styles
She edited about 1/6 of the text, and that was the last time we ever heard of her
That was 4 months ago, and we were unable to contact her since
Unless she's dead, stranded, or in witness protection, I don't see a reason for her to cut us off like this
If she had no time, didn't want to continue, or simply needed more time, she could have told us, instead of just letting us hang like this
IT'S JUST RUDE!
For nearly a month now, I've been trying to convince the head of the project to get us a new editor, or just publish the rough version (I even did a spell-check on it), but he's being too much of a nice guy to continue without her
damn them editors
"Well in all honesty-most Wildstorm heroes were practically villains to begin with. If you ever read the Captain Atom: Armageddon series, they make a point of showing that people in the Wildstrom Universe didn't love and respect superheroes as much as they outright were afraid of them."
Yeah, I read Captain Atom: Armageddon and at best it was inaccurate. At worst it seemed to be the writer trying to create some fanfiction about how even one DC hero could PWNZRD all of Wildstorm's best. A better example of a crossover between the two worlds would be the JLA/WildC.A.T.s one. You know what all these "practically villains" did at every turn? Tried to save the world whenever something turned up to destroy it, stop empires from conquering humanity and even take steps to try and actively change it for the better (at least when Mark Millar wasn't writing them). Hell, when Armageddon came they weren't spending their time gathering personal power or setting themselves up as warlords, they were trying to rebuild. Keep as many people alive as possible and make sure they didn't fall victim to old enemies making grabs for power like the daemonites.
Please don't try to brush off this writing as being perfectly fine when you clearly know nothing of what you're talking about.
Hey, Lewis, was that essay you mentioned the one I wrote (and recently linked you to)?
If so, Woot!
And, anonymous of 20th August,
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/02/23/comics-catfish-and-colour-oranges-are-not-the-only-fruit/
~ Mik
... sorry, just realised I posted twice. I didn't think the first one had gotten through.
~ Mik
Happy Belated Birthday!
Good grief, this comic has both a lot to say and nothing to say at the same time. I would rather have a gladiator arena tournament or a fighting tournament than a hunger games one. That's just me.
Every kid wants to join Harvest! They get Mr.T trading cards upon enlisting! :D
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