Monday, August 26, 2013

The Culling, Part 3: Legion Lost #9

 photo LegionLost-9-thumbnail_zps176a18dc.jpg

The Legion is lost, the Titans are lost, the plot is lost...



110 comments:

Ian Yoxon said...

Great review Linkara. I think your new Harvest voice is much better. keep up these awesome reviews

LucasChad said...

Funny episode, but it could've used a little more cowbell. I imagine next week is where all that rage will come ahead. Better get The Wurzels on line 1!

Rabbi Joe said...

Etymologically, Ravagers come from the same root as ravishers--i.e., rapists. Why would a group of superheroes want to be known as the Rapists?

Megan said...

Quick heads up(though perhaps by the time this is posted the problem will be fixed): When I watched this on Blip I didn't get a mid-roll ad. And not in the sense of "We're unable to show this message". And no, I don't have Adblock. Just a FYI,since I know they're an important source of income.

Now, on to this comic. First, your Harvest Fudd voice is hysterical. I had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard.

Second, my GOD but he's a boring villain. It's exactly as you said-he's a damned Gary Stu. The only thing that differentiates him from the 'good' version of a Stu is that he's not the most handsome man ever. (Though I'd bet money he's been Rule 34-ed..EW.) Writers: When your villain makes frakking ABLE from the SCP Foundation look like a pansy, TONE HIM DOWN SOME.

Good thing we're almost at the end of the Running Man...I mean Culling.

Konsolero said...

Oh god how can both the writers and editors make so many mistakes? It´s just baffeling that there seems to be no quality controll at all or the must have been really blind not to see them.

Nice list of team names, was happy to see Hellsing and Code Geass in there ^^.

A Cameo from Doug as Zod would have been funny imo.

Adam said...

Just when I think this storyline can't get any worse, we keep peeling away more layers of maximum suckage.

What is really sad about this is Tom DeFalco is writing the third part of this storyline. I don't blame him for this mess since a lot of writers and artists have been screwed over by the pack of brainless monkeys that make up the editorial staff of DC Comics. As for the moments where the characters point out the complete stupidity of this storyline, I'm not sure if its suppose to be intentional or accidental. If its the first part, then the writers truly wish ill will on the company and its higher-ups and the editors are completely phoning it in.

I'm starting to wonder what will come first in the final review, another Combine Harvester-themed mental breakdown or this book being burned to ashes. I'm praying for the latter but, the way this storyline is going, I'm preparing for the former.

BTW, Harvest's new Elmer Fudd voice fits him perfectly. And, yes, he's not worthy to lick the dirt off the real General Zod's boots.

Crystal Master said...

When Linkara mention the "and perhaps most damming of all" I honestly thought he was going to mention Youngblood as being a better superhero team name, so sadly the quick club bit just kind of disappointed me.
oh well, my problem.
Oh and you want the ultimate prof that they have no idea what to do with harvest, in the upcoming villains month, Harvest the main villain of the first story arch in the book, isn't even getting his own issue. Instead they give the slot to Deathstroke, who already had his own series in the New 52.
Anyway great review of an awful crossover, can't wait to see hw you end it.
oh, and abridged Paradox voice was hilarious.

Doresh said...

Yeah, Harvest has a weird look for a "good guy". There's strying to strike fear in the hearts of criminals, and then there's having a bright neon sign saying "I AM EVIL!".
This also makes The Culling that much more stupid: If you think you're the good guy and need more manpower for you good deed, just ASK OTHER GOOD GUYS FOR HELP (and actually bother to explain why the hell you need them).

"Coordinated, paramilitary training"? They were all blindly charging at him from the same direction. Where's the training in THAT o_O ?!

So let me get this character straight:

- He's no overpowered that any chance for a decent conclusion to this story equals zero because the heroes will surely have to rely on a Deus Ex Machine to defeat him

- He constantly has to gloat over how aweseome he is.

- He claims that EVERYTHING that happened up to this point went according to his grand master plan.

- He even goes so far as to claim that the heroes origin was planned by him as well.

- Despite his absurd plan, he can make all the heroes believe anything he says (though that might be the fault of the heroes, to be honest)

So he's basically the combined might of the worst villain traits ever.

P.S.: The new voice for Harvest is much more fitting XD

GoldenKing said...

Not to be as nitpicky as you are sometimes, but Scooby Doo's group was not called "The Scooby Gang" that was a name made up in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In Scooby Doo, they were always called "Mystery Inc." still a far better name then the Ravagers.

Grady Childs said...

Good review. So that's Harvest's reason for the culling...he thinks he's a good guy? I have a colorful eight letter word to describe it but I'd rather not.

I can also several team names that are better then the Ravagers...Team Rocket, X-Men, Ten Rings, Team Plasma, Team Galactic, Team Aqua, Team Magma and the Mamma Aiuto Gang

So if you refuse to associate Terrance Stamp's Zod with Harvest would you associate Micheal Shannon's Zod with him?

thorondragon said...

you know what would be hilarious? if it turns out that he was unknowingly doing the whim of some great evil and dealing with the only beings that can stop it by either killing them or driving them insane..... largely the insane part because a guy like that who talks so much would drive anyone batty.
..... yeah that adridged/elmer fud voice fits that reaper knock off better.

I gotta admit that his design is pretty cool, but it of course takes far more than just that to make an interesting character..... though I am not against the concept of a protagonist that is some form of monster. though only if the motivations make sense or they even have motivation, which this harvest moron lacks.

........ nah, promehteus is still the king of contrivance. his very presence warping the plot to the point that we can practically see the writer's face in the panels. at the very least harvest has a seeming source to his powers, that being his scythe...... which makes me question why no one has thought about forcing the scythe out of his hands and destroying it! how come the only time I last rember seeing super heroes use proper tactics is in the Young Justice animated series. hell, the team managed to destroy Amazo in that series by taking advantage of its ability to copy powers; it had become intangible to avoid and attack and did not see superbuy come from behind, and superboy managed to slip his fist into amazo's chest before he became solid, destroying him.

actually think ravagers could make a good name if we are talking about some assault squad and see them in action. think about it, far more ridiculous names become synonymous with badassery. just think of it, batman, spiderman, superman. they either sound silly or are redundant, yet they have become icons. hell wolverine is a farily obscure reference to an animal. more than likely when he was featured not a soul on earth knew what a wolverine was, so it would make people confused on why this violent little man was called that instead of naming him after a wolf or bear.
still ravagers, not a superhero name at all. not even a villain squad name either.

Inquisitor D. said...

Yeah... comic continues to suck

As someone who has read Harvest's origin... I can kinda see him calling his group the Ravagers. His main point is, as you say, completely wiping out metahumanity (his own powers came from an accident) Thus making an army of kill crazies and giving them a totally negative name would make sense...

If any of the rest of this story was done remotely well. And yes, for heroes, Ravagers is a worse name than Runaways (Who, FTR, never called themselves the Runaways)

And it doesn't explain why he's so insistent on using a metahuman army for this!

*SPOILER*

You're right about Harvest's power level being enough to take on pretty much everyone, but it gets worse. He's got a metahuman on his side that's way more powerful than he is! Powerful enough to take down the Metahuman community en masse, because they were succeeding in the future! And winning!

Yeah, Harvest's got a powered up Superboy (son of Clark and Lois) that he brought with him from his original timeline, that was utterly loyal to him and his genocidal goals. They fought together and considered each other Father and Son. The only reason Harvest came back in time was because 'his' Superboy was sick, and the only thing to cure him was in the past... because plot.

Trying to work out how to cure that was why Harvest cloned the TT Superboy. He claimed he wanted an army to back his Superboy up, and that's why he made the Ravagers, but why is Harvest busy mucking about with teens when his ultimate weapon is still at risk of death?

And why does the character who is supposed to be worried endlessly about the death of his adoptive son, and mourning the death of his biological son, dressed like the Grim Reaper? AND IS SO DAMN COMFORTABLE ABOUT KILLING KIDS?!

Information Geek said...

Here's the thing about the Caitlin Fairchild in the New 52. She's not really her. In Team 7, it was discovered that Caitlin died about 5 years ago (around the time that Justice League formed) and the one currently running around is a clone. My guess is that clone was raised more by NOWHERE to be loyal to them and think of them as her family. So this whole thing about Caitlin switching sides may be different than just getting mad at them.

Also, more badass name than Ravagers? Justice League of Canada! That'll be fun to read next Spring, since Jeff Lemire is writing it, making it cosmic, and bringing in Adam Strange to them (also rumored is Booster Gold).

William Ngo said...

0:55 - All I know about the Ravagers book is that Thunder and Lightning’s names were mixed up on the cover. That is some fail editing right there... Which makes sense considering it was spun out of THIS event...

2:16 – The team name sounds like some crappy nineties team name! Like it’s trying so damn hard to be cool and EXTREEEEEME!!11!111oneone!11 And when I hear 'ravage', I think 'rape'.

5:24 – Wow, I didn’t even know they WERE hung up on anything. The sticks just blend into the background...

6:54 – Well, Superboy is stumbling forward... I think. Or did he tripped? Or is he thrusting?

8:00 – Tron outfits? That seems to be the sole benefit of working for Harvest. If you’re into that, I guess...

9:00 – Okay, Tim’s wings actually look pretty cool in that shot.

14:38 – Headbutt clash!

16:40-17:00 – Um, what? That’s incredible levels of idiotic! That may be the single dumbest plan and goal of all time. And the writer can spot the flaws in this plan! So... what?

17:43 – Solstice speaks for every reader ever.

18:46-19:04 – WHAT THE HELL?! How does this make any sense? In any way? Better yet, how would one think this was good when writing this? I just... ugh.

20:40 – I guess you could say Ridge joined them because he had no other choice... except he was SNARKING ABOUT IT! Oh, and he joins a team WITH THE SAME NAME!

Okay, up until this point, I was just amused at the idiocy, but what the hell? What sense does this plan make? What was the writer ON when he wrote this, and where can I get some?! Seriously, how could anyone think this plot made any degree of sense? How could a human being who could qualify to become a professional writer, with all their mental faculties in check, actually write this? How the hell did this get past editors?

Kth-77 said...

Now all we need is for Harvest to be beaten with a Rock off!
"There's just no way that we can win he is a Gary Stu,
He fights too well because he's from another time-"

William Ngo said...

Harvest's ranting reminds me of Scott Lobdell's writing. I actually thought he was the writer because of it. His writing ALWAYS has huge amounts of dialogue, and it's not split up well. I remember reading an issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws (I also read up to around issue 8 before quitting), and the dialogue balloons were huge! And I think the same thing happened with H'El on Earth, although don't quote me on that, since that event was insanely boring and I tried to forget about it.

Nick Michalak said...

You made my morning. "Don't Fear The Reaper" is my favorite song of all time. Thanks, and good job on these episodes! Keep up the great work!

Anonymous said...

Other better team names than Ravengers; The Time Lords, The Silence, The United Federation of Planets, The Planeteers, The Alliance To Restore The Republic, Ultimate Alliance, The Wonderbolts, The Equestrian Guard.
At least those can roll off the tip of your tongue or sound like they mean well!

Sometimes, A Villain who thinks they’re the Hero can be good. Steven Moffat believes those are the best kind of Villains, the ones who can’t see how evil they become. But, you got to work to give those Villains some qualities that at least show they think they’re doing good.
Like Lord Vyce, He thought himself the Good one, because he felt if the Multiple Universes were under his Power, he would be able to protect them from a Reality Eating Monster! He’s however an ens justify the means being, and sometimes those ens are pretty villainous.
Or the Borg; They think they’re doing all the creatures of the Universe a Favour, and they can’t see why people won’t want to be assimilated. And at least when Borg assimilate you, it’s not actually klling the person!

However, Getting children to fight and kll one another, before using them for…something…doesn’t really make Harvest look like the better being! If you want people to join your team, at least ASK first!
Also, Don’t Heroes have ALLIES, Villains have Minions, don’t they?

Also, Why is Harvest calling the Culling; “Nonsense”? IT WAS HIS IDEA!

I also HATE Villains, who pull powers out their butts! I can understand making Villains seem like a Threat, but then it approaches a point where there’s no believable way to defeat them, and if they do get defeated, it creates a GIANT Plot Hole!

Nice review though, Linkara! ;3
More amusing than the previous week.
Looking forward to seeing more from you.

Joshua Ford said...

I know you're not exactly a Star Wars "fan", but this would have been the perfect opportunity for an Emperor Palpatine "I have forseen it!" clip gag. :)

Literate Dead said...

Damnit, Linkara! That Elmer Fudd voice matched with the images of Harvest... I can't stop giggling!

And hey, one of my top five least favorite cliches: the villain who is perpetually more powerful/one step ahead of the heroes no matter what they do! Yay, another one for the crappy comic bingo card! I'm putting a quarter down that the way he's defeated in the end (if he is) happens to negate most of his shown abilities and will reek of a rushed 'fixes everything' conclusion!

That said... urgh. Three out of four weeks in, and I'm already looking to this being over. No complaints on the reviewing; in fact, you've done a great job on this... but this comic is just such a slog! I'm so looking forward to the Plan 9 comic coming up after this, just to get past this DC nonsense...

Honestly, to step up on the soapbox for a moment, I tried. I really tried to get into some DC titles. Heck, I was bitter about Frankenstein being cancelled (as well as that 'Rotworld' crap that bogged it down in the later issues), but I still had Batwoman and Batgirl, so it wasn't a total loss. But I just gave up Batgirl due to being really sick of the recent storyline, and Batwoman has been floundering since finishing off the Mother of Monsters story. If this keeps up, Lil' Gotham is going to be the only DC title I still read! I got back into comics a little more than a year ago, and the number of titles I read has already dropped!

*ahem* Sorry. Just tangentially venting there. I think comics industry rage is infectious.

One more week of this... one more week... Let's see how this mess concludes!

Kaor said...

Hey, Harvest!
David Xanatos called, he said that the creating overly-complex, poorly-planned, multi-staged evil plots shtick belongs to him and Dr. Doom! Also, he said that you suck at being evil.

Anonymous said...

The Ravagers comic was actually pretty decent
In fact, it felt allot more like a Teen Titans comics than the actual Teen Titans comic

And no, they did not refer to themselves as the Ravagers, and in fact, the main point was them not wanting to be Ravagers
However, EVERYONE ELSE in the comic kept calling them that


I also support the idea of having "Combine Harvester" being next episode's theme
(would fit, considering the villain)


Also, a slightly better, and funnier Hunger Games rip-off featuring the Teen Titans
two things make it more enjoyable:
Comedic Sociopathy and Slapstick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7CGcIZxO14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dgHXrhsYQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGESaq8OTmU

Dave said...

Great review series so far. I do have two notes.

1. Wow, that was some backhand Harvest gave Bunker. I was expecting a "Team Bunker is blasting off agaaaaaain!" riff.

2. Why did Harvest bother including Superboy's logo on his TRON outfit?

BookwormOtaku said...

@Rabbi Joe: Maybe they meant to call themselves "therapists" instead, lol

You know I just finished playing Blazblue Continuum Shift Extend and it amazes me how alot of the overpowered villain traits Harvest has BCSE's villains Hazama/Yuki Terumi and Relius Clover also have and yet somehow those traits actually work with those two in creating effective villains.

Donna McKay said...

Awesome review! On a slightly different note, my 4 year old nephew walked in while I was watching the review. He pointed at the screen and asked who it was, and I said "that's Lewis". To which he said "No, Lewis is a crocodile!" (from Princess and the Frog)

Cory of PRIVATE Corp said...

Well at least watching this at the comfort of your own home is better live. As much fun as it was at the panel, I just wanted to watch it again just to pick up some of the stuff that was covered by laughs (and the stupid comments I made).

For Harvest, I agree that his design looks pretty awesome. You did hit it right on the head with his whole look... but that's as far as it goes.

And really there's a part of me that does like the idea of the villain trying to do his own good in the world. It's been done, sure, but with the right motivation and writing Harvest could have been a whole lot better. But instead he's hosting some kind of fighting tournament pitting metahumans in battles so that one of them could become his new lackey, all for "the greater good" or something along those lines. ... Wait, if he's fighting against metahumans, why doesn't he find those who hate metahumans and join forces with them instead of throwing this stupid contest?

Plus with his Gary-Stu status, it's really hard to like this villain if he's taking out villains left and right. But maybe having Pawadox's voice might change that.

And only one more to go... best of luck to you, man.

Andrew McGraw said...

I wonder if there ever was a comic that started out absolutely terrible, and then suddenly became totally awesome, like, halfway through.

That would be great for a review if Linkara started out normally with bashing a bad comic, and then it starts completely blowing his mind.

Cletus said...

I kinda wonder who's the biggest villain-sue
Harvest, or Relic?

Seriously, Relic is annoying the heck out of me
he's lame, he's over-powered (single-handedly defeating the ENTIRE Blue Lantern Corps., the Guardians of the Universe, AND Kyle Rayner in White Lantern form), and he's hogging the damn spotlight (getting his own Villains Month issue, despite there being more worthy villains, and getting his own event - I'd like to skip it, but since I already follow New Guardians and Red Lanterns, which are both parts of the event, I'll be forced to at the very least get the Green Lantern Annual 2, to see the end of the story)

Mitchell said...

Actually Zero lead The Order of the Black Knights or the Black Knights for short not the Dark Knights.....yeah I know someone else has said that by now but I just finished Code Geass like a week ago and am in totally gushing nerd mode about how much I loved it and Zero. Side from that happy late birthday you crazed comic loving, space ship owning....wait he looks like that and he thinks he's a hero. Okaaaaay someone has never seen a mirror before.

Zombie-man said...

''To those wondering what those bubbles are, those are like the ''tardises'' of the 31 century''


What?

Zombie-man said...

''To those wondering what those bubbles are, they are like ''tardises'' from the 31 century''


Plays Val Kilmer ''raises too many questions'' clip.

Crystal Master said...

"I wonder who the bigger villain-sue is, Harvest or Relic"
Harvest, its not even close. Relic is ancient, like before guardians level. He will have weaknesses and ways to go, but we just haven't seen them yet. And who else would you suggest get a villain issue for GL?
Relic is only mildly Gary-Stu esc

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"''To those wondering what those bubbles are, those are like the ''tardises'' of the 31 century''


What?"

The time machine from Doctor Who.

Cletus said...

"And who else would you suggest get a villain issue for GL?"

Larfleeze?
Atrocitus?

I know they already have their own ongoings, but so do Deadshot, Harley Quinn (both is Suicide Squad), and Lobo (Stormwatch), and that does not seem to stop them from getting their own Villain Month issues
(not to mention, Guy Gardner is hogging all the spotlight in Red Lanterns at the moment anyway)

MarioJPC said...

I think than the villain and all his plans and schemes, taht is all the plot of the crossover; dissapointing and pointless.
The worst is that sometimes i lived that type of villains when we

KKDW said...

I actually picked up the first issue of Legion Lost when the reboot started, didn't carry on after that and if it meant getting dragged into this even I'm glad I didn't.

Other much team names that are better than the Ravagers: The Tomorrow People, International Rescue, Ala Alba, Terrahawks, The Digidestined, SG-1, and Spectrum. And I wish I could think of more that others probably haven't thought of already.

PopCultureOtaku said...

Ravagers sound like a team put together by Ravage from Transformers.
What a waste of a book Ravagers was. Pointless screwing up of good characters more. Needless bs storyline with Fairchild. It just makes me want the real DC and Wildstorm back.
Legion Lost was not bad book but the fact that this was some part of version of original legion didn't really help. Also didn't help the other Legion Of Super Hero Book since even old fans had no idea where in history this book took place after. Felt like middle of team history with all the issues missing.
Sadly this reviewing coming out after Legion of Super Heroes last issue and before being replaced by the dumb mess of an idea of Justice Legion. They can say that is not but anyone believe that Legion gets canceled they have something to replace it? It give 12 issues. I just hope we one day see really Legion back and not the mess we got thanks to Geoff Johns. I mean this version worked so little that other two more recent incarnations would have worked better. At least we know that history for sure.
Editors at dc have no clue what to do other then boss writers. I mean that would explain so much inconsistency at dc. We don't care if it makes sense. I go to George Prez complaining about not knowing about what Grant Morrison was doing on Action and no editors or anyone at dc would tell him. Who would want actually books that tie into each other actually have consistency? ::Face palms::
DC Reboot not for new readers? Almost like they lied about that whole thing about being new readers? Would anyone be surprised if it was a lie at this point?
Someone need to tell the villain to stop god modding.
When doing harvest's new voice made you sounded a bit like priest from Princess Bride.

Anonymous said...

Over powered, has goals that contradict previous actions, an obsessive need to take credit for any event that occurred in the past and wastes his time when he probably could have gotten what he wanted issues ago.

Basically he's comic book Aizen from the future without the illusion powers.

Yugnat said...

Alright, Linkara. Tell me that "The Ravagers" is a dumbest team name than "Mightily Murdered Power Ringers". Go aheaed. I dare you.

Anyway, great review, as always ^^
Can't wait for storyline to come back =)

Rob Green, MN said...

Great review like always.

when you mentioned the sphere as a TARDIS. I myself thought it was the sphere from season finale of the first season with the tenth Doctor that the Daleks used.

Can't wait for Metacon to see the Live show.

Jesse said...

It'll be interesting to see how this story ends, anyway, even if it is badly for all involved.

What really makes this suck, based on the 3/4 or so of it that you've told us about so far, is knowing that there are bad Gary Stu fanfics out there that are at least as good as this, if not better, and were written and distributed for free. It makes my head hurt to think that DC paid for this and then asked readers to do the same.

At any rate, it's just about over. That's something, I suppose.

Lostshadows said...

Love Harvest's new voice. Reminds me of the clergyman from The Princess Bride.

Falcovsleon20 said...

First of all Linkara, they're called the BLACK KNIGHTS, as in Chess?

And second, why'd you have to remind me Code Geass exists? I'm gonna get this off my chest. Sorry Geass fans but I find the show incredibly pretentious and trying too hard.

Katherine Vanderbilt said...

Really funny episode, Linkara. Can't emphasize that enough. "Very verily." Artemis died in an annual issue? It would have been nice if they included a picture of her bloody, desecrated corpse. I had no intentions of actually reading the Culling, but I appreciate the extra push to keep away from it. Nice post credits joke as well.

FugueforFrog said...

You know your Harvest just sounded like a weird fusion of Lily Von Shtupp and Elmer Fudd. I think it's appropriate with the scenario.

Honestly I don't get it: why would he need these minions to save the future with how easily he bats away the heroes? I think your rage is well founded. Though...honestly as an aside, Caitlin Fairchild is cool. She's essentially what would happen if some nerdy girl became She-Hulk...she's not worth being in this new 52 mess unfortunately but it's still great to see her regardless.

Dark Patrician said...

Okay first of all, to everybody who's saying he's doing an Elmer Fudd voice...he's not, Linkara is imitating abridged series Paradox who is doing an imitation of Mandark from Dexter's Laboratory who is apparently in turn impersonating Elmer Fudd...I think I had a point but I lost it, much like Harvest really...hey I got a point out of that!

Does anybody else think that Linkara is either swearing or near swearing more that he used to? We might need to move up Brute Force #4's review to calm him down.

Although to be fair, your standards might be getting too high...I mean sequential story telling, continuity, characters with believable motivation, respecting the readers, costumes that don't look like crap, I could go on but I won't...mostly because I'm depressing myself.

Good job reviewing more garbage.

Cat C said...

So... Harvester is frickin' Aizen from Bleach "Yes, I KNEW you would swap the town, this makes thing easier. And yes I'm so strong but I need Espada but I need to kill the one when she's doing well because, 'you're too weak' and oops she's not dead years later and..." wtf???

At least this comic felt shorter than the first Teen Titans one we saw for the Culling.

Nice touch with the editing to illustrate your point.

Anonymous said...

It's really kind of scary how similar Harvest and abridged Paradox are when you show them back to back like that.

Starman said...

Love the new Harvest voice, though I think you sound less like Elmer Fudd and more like The Priest from The Princess Bride.

Mawwidge! Twue wove!

Canvas Wolf Doll said...

as someone with a rhotacism, i can't say i enjoy the impediment being used as a mocking short hand for stupidity.

this just my opinion, obviously, but having never been able to fix the vocal quirk, i find things like 'the impressive clergyman' from princess bride is offensive. elmer fudd is fine, because it's not a joke by a way to create vocal distinction from the rest of the cast, but i do loathe jokes centered around 'heh heh, they can't talk properly!'

not going to demand you to stop, just wanted to express my discomfort.

Arc said...

LOL. I lost it when you started to have Ravager talk like Paradox.

That was awesome. We may have someone who just took the throne away from the Superboy Prime voice.

Now I just want you review more comics with him in it just to hear that voice again.

Jeff Jacobson said...

All the scary design elements you liked about Harvest (e.g., eyeless skull) were ripped off from the alien from Alien.

His appearance also kind of reminds me of Zebra from Fist of the North Star

Leor said...

Ugh, this cross-over just gets worse and worse! The entire thing is utterly pointless. If Harvest's real goal is to prevent the existence of future metahumans (by which I'm assuming he's referring to an incarnation of the Legion of Superheroes in the 31st Century), and his means of doing so is to commit genocide on 21st century Earth, why is he recruiting heroes in the first place?!? He should be recruiting criminals, villains like Lex Luthor or the Joker! I bet the Joker would pay Harvest for the opportunity to get some 31st century tech and go out and murder a bunch of super-powered people, especially if Harvest chained up Batman and forced him to watch!

The real disappointing thing about this crossover, besides the Gary Stu villain and Hunger Games rip-off, is that the writers are clearly not working together to create character moments between the Titans and the Legion. The group of stranded Legionnaires include some of the most interesting personalities on their team, including Wildfire (who is a human transformed into living energy, trapped in a containment suit), Tellus (a telepath, whose large aquatic body belies his gentleness), Gates (an insectoid teleporter who quotes Karl Marx, Noam Chomsky, and other left-wing social commenters, or at least he did three reboots of the Legion ago), and Dawnstar and Tyroc (a pair of attempts to diversify the Legion in the late '70's gone wrong, they are now fully fleshed out, three dimensional characters, rather than walking stereotypes). Oh and Chameleon Girl, she's half human, half-alien shapeshifter.

Almost half of the Legionnaires are not only alien, but they are not humanoid aliens. Of the rest, Wildfire's "condition" separates him slightly from the more human Timber Wolf, Tyroc and Dawnstar. Wouldn't it be more interesting for the readers if the cross-over focused more on Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl and Kid Flash interacting with a telepathic, methane breathing, fish creature; a teleporting insect, whose features have been mutilated by exposure to an alien virus, and who keeps pointing out the inequality in 21st century society; the shape-shifting "girl" whose body language and tone of voice suggest familiarity with humanity, but whose body changes shape when she doesn't concentrate; or the guy in the suit: why's he in a suit? Wait he's made of energy?

Plus, they keep insisting they're from the future, and that they know Kid Flash; why not spend several pages where Tellus shows the Titans images of the 31st century? Why not have Robin offer to find a way to help them leave a time capsule where the 31st century Legion can find it, like in the Batcave?

It's all such a waste. Just like the Nu52 itself.

One last note: this issue was written by Tom DeFalco, former editor-in-chief at Marvel in the early '90's. What I found surprising was how restrained the narration boxes were; for some reason I remember DeFalco using a lot more of them when he was writing "Amazing Spider-Man" during the "Clone Saga". It also might have been interesting to read the narration boxes this issue in DeFalco's Brooklyn accent. :)

Gabriel Godinho said...

Great episode, Linkara. You chose the perfect voice for Harvest.

I noticed you haven't done a "previously on AT4W" segment. I kind of missed those.

Still, I enjoyed it.

Good job.

Thatkidinthewheelchair said...

I went into these reviews expecting a fun but incredibly stupid Battle Royale knockoff.

I have come out a broken man, a man who is for some reason willingly torturing himself by a stupid plan created by a stupid man amongst an endless time paradox that doesn't seem to understand what continuity and editing is.

I am a broken man.

AWESOME reviews so far and, man, do I Wish you luck next week!

P.S. With all the Yu-Gi-Oh Abridged Movie clips, I am honestly sorta disappointed you didn't go with the Jaden Stronger rap. Not that it's better than Blue Oyster Cult.

Crystal Master said...

"Larfleeze?
Atrocitus?

I know they already have their own ongoings, but so do Deadshot, Harley Quinn (both is Suicide Squad), and Lobo (Stormwatch), and that does not seem to stop them from getting their own Villain Month issues
(not to mention, Guy Gardner is hogging all the spotlight in Red Lanterns at the moment anyway"

The thing is that Harley and Deadshot are on a team book so they have to co-star with about 6 other characters a lot. I'm pretty sure the writer of the of the Harley issue is going to write the Harley ongoing that's coming up soon, so its good testing ground for him.

Larfleeze and Attrocitus do have ongoings tat they largely star in (Larfleeze also had a back up issue in Threshold). Attrocius has gotten plenty of main character time in Red Lanterns so he doesn't need a villain issue.

But that brings me to the reason why Relic having a villain issue is a good idea. Having these issues work as part of the story, rather then just be a gimmicky one-shot is a great use of time for what could've very easily been a half-baked attempt to boast sales (which villain's month is).
From the looks of it:
Riddler
Secret Society
Ocean Master
Relic
Two-Face
and maybe a few others, will have issues relevant to what's happening in the current books.

This is especially true for Relic, who, being a new character, needs some extra panel time to help make Lights Out a better event.

CMWaters said...

All right, I understand that via the DC Universe, at times you need to find way to have your villain be ultra strong or creatively powerful to be a match for bigger guns...in this case guys like Superboy or the Captain Atom rip-off guy who went for the kamakaze move (apologies to fans of that character, but that's the first thing I thought of).

But the way that they have it for Harvest here...no. Just no. Not written well at all.

At least have the heroes get SOME blows before he can fight back, not just having him sya "LOL, NO!" and backhand te away.

Because however the hell he's going to be beaten here is gonna have to be REALLY DAMNED CONTRIVED...unless he just happens to have the weakness to...I dunno, the color teal or something.

Off topic of the idiot comic, did my e-mail I sent you go through, Lewis? I understand if you've been busy and haven't had a chance to check it yet.

Tia Wheeler said...

Dear God Almighty, this Harvest guy is a variation of Sousuke Aizen only for DC comics... and that is NOT a good thing.

Here are some more team names that sound better than the Ravagers: Rescue Aid Society, the Risembool Rangers, the Mini-Skirt Army, the Rescue Rangers, the Winx Club, the Care Bears, the Freedom Fighters, Dumbledore's Army, Ronin Warriors, the .hackers (pronounced dot hackers), the Elite Beat Agents, and the AX Agents.

N. said...

I have to contend that these characters did NOT pass the Bechdel test. At least not in any strenuous fashion, and I ask for a retraction in your next video and that you seriously re-evaluate your claims at being a "feminist."

First, the characters are engaged in a physical altercation with the intent to harm one another. The point of the Bechdel test is to advance female character growth through dialogue. Fight banter does not do this, and, instead, this scene demeans women by juxtaposing female dialogue with physical combat.

Second, one of the topics of conversation is a romantic interest. And, the scene is interrupted by a male character, meaning that this conversation fails two principles of the test. Even an unnamed romantic interest lands this conversation in the realm of "This is the only way to right a female character." And having a male character intervene clearly reinforces to the audience that a scene is only meaningful if a man is involved.

Last, there is no plot or character advancement in this conversation. This is the most important facet that this conversation fails. The women fill space, but don't provide anything to the men's story. Now, you may argue that this whole series is paced like this, but I won't accept that "just because its badly written" is an excuse to prop up the patriarchy.

opsz said...

Small nitpick, but I believe that the rebellion from Code Geass was called "The Black Knights" not Dark Knights.

P.S. It's interesting if you like that show Linkara, however because of all plot holes and contrivances that are in that show (despite it's admirable presentation), I find myself confused that you'd like it

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"I have to contend that these characters did NOT pass the Bechdel test. At least not in any strenuous fashion, and I ask for a retraction in your next video and that you seriously re-evaluate your claims at being a "feminist.""

Okay, really? REALLY?

There are three criteria of the Bechdel Test:
-Two named Female characters
-They talk to one another
-It's about a subject other than men.

I'm not referring to any additions or modifications made by others - I'm basing it strictly on the original three guidelines, and in that case it passes - Rose Wilson and Caitlyn Fairchild, talking to one another, about the morality of NOWHERE and about their relationship to one another. In those regards it passes, but then again I wasn't being all that damn serious about it to begin with because it's yet another fight scene in a story with nothing else but fight scenes in it.

And even then, there's nothing about the stupid comic propping up the patriarchy other than the standard garbage that's already there. I see no reason to reevaluate myself as a feminist nor do I see a need to apologize for something that was an offhand remark to begin with that I wasn't putting too much serious thought into beyond "I so do not care about these people."

While your remarks about it do have plenty of merit in regards to the fact that there is no advancement of female character growth, there is also no male character growth in this stupid series since it's too busy having everyone act like idiots and fight the moron from the future.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Small nitpick, but I believe that the rebellion from Code Geass was called "The Black Knights" not Dark Knights.

P.S. It's interesting if you like that show Linkara, however because of all plot holes and contrivances that are in that show (despite it's admirable presentation), I find myself confused that you'd like it"

Eh, I like Code MENT.

Megan said...

@N:

I have to contend that these characters did NOT pass the Bechdel test.
Err...yeah, they did. At it's basic level, the Bechdel Test is two women having a conversation that's not about a guy. Nowhere does it say the conversation has to be of high caliber. Technically, I could write two women talking about cabbages and my story would pass the Bechdel Test.

At least not in any strenuous fashion,
See previous answer.

and I ask for a retraction in your next video
Why should he retract anything?

and that you seriously re-evaluate your claims at being a "feminist."
Again, why should he? He's said many, many times that 'feminist' does not have one fixed definition. What, you think just because he's a man(PUNCH) that means he can't be a feminist? The 1950s called, they'd like their misandry back.

First, the characters are engaged in a physical altercation with the intent to harm one another
And your point is...? It's a fight. That's what happens.

The point of the Bechdel test is to advance female character growth through dialogue
No, the point of the Bechdel Test is to have fun writing dialog for women. Here, look:
Jane: Hi Sally, what a lovely dress.
Sally: Thank you, I got it at Bergdorf's.

There. That has two women talking about something besides men. It passes the Test. Simple as that.


Fight banter does not do this,
You never watched Buffy, did you?

and, instead, this scene demeans women by juxtaposing female dialogue with physical combat.
So, women aren't allowed to be Snark Knights? Well, good to know. Truly, you have shown us the wisdom of the ages.

I won't contend your second points except to point out that I'm pretty sure the Test says the guy does have to be named..

Last, there is no plot or character advancement in this conversation.
There's no plot or character advancement in the whole damn comic!

I won't accept that "just because its badly written" is an excuse to prop up the patriarchy.
Where was he using that excuse?!


Anonymous said...

@N

"I won't accept that 'just because its badly written'is an excuse to prop up the patriarchy."

Congratulations! You are now a feminazi!
Please take you'r complimentary cyanide capsule!

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Congratulations! You are now a feminazi!
Please take you'r complimentary cyanide capsule!"

Feminazis are not a real thing unless you can find a feminist who also advocates nazi ideals... which don't exactly match up.

While I strongly disagreed with the post, I will not allow such remarks around here, especially not telling another poster to kill themself.

Anonymous said...

I have to wonder whether or not they're just reusing the Ravager name in a positive context because of the fact that Rose Wilson is written as a flat evil character now. I mean if Starfire was in the same boat, would they bring out the Starfires? It really makes no sense otherwise, especially considering that's the name of the "team" (phrased like that because calling it a team and not a plot contrivance is hard to do with a straight face) that they are trying to escape.
I have to think that at some point in that books future, Rose will pull a heel-face turn and then the question will be why it didn't happen at first. There is no good question to that. Except that a cursory google search seems to indicate that the series has been cancelled. So it snarled a lot of continuity for no apparent gain.

Anonymous said...

STILL not as bad as Avengers Arena

at least Harvest can't make people's heads explode at will

James Paul Johnson said...

I do remember reading The Culling when it came out. It marked the point where I came to terms with how bad the Teen Titans was and stopped reading. I don't think I read another issue until Death of a Family, which I loved.

There are maybe 10 or so comics I'm still reading in the New 52 even though I still dislike the whole idea of the thing.

Jessica said...

The Cullen made me throw it against a wall a number of times, like at least 15, but since I can never, ever stop reading, watching or playing something I start because of a crippling need to allow it redeem itself I just suffer on. I read this as it came out and I was sorely tempted to start a review series on YouTube just to point out how stupid, boring, slow and confusing it really is. Thankfully there is Linkara to do it for me, man you've got some iron fortitude to do this for a living. You're a real super hero!

So people were calling him Harvest Fudd but I believe it is actually a play on a character from Dexter's Laboratory named Mandark who was in turn based on the actor Eddie Deezen. I'm pretty sure that is the layers of connection to the villain from the YGOA movie. I'm pretty darn sure anyway. I might be a little older than most people who watch your show (50 in September) but I remember Eddie from lots of B movies in the late 70s and early 80s. I think he was in the Polar Express as well more recently.

Anonymous said...

@N

people like you are the reason why feminism is seen as a joke

you don't care about equality or decent treatment, you are just desperately looking for a reason to talk-down to people, and feel better about yourself

go hang you'r head in shame

thorondragon said...

also, code geass reference. pretty awesome, I LOVE that anime. can be sometimes pretentious and had a few plot holes, some of them major, but its story, presentation, and characterization was still awesome.

...some reason I can never appreciate code ment. don't like abridged series period. hell I do not even like the abridged series of yugioh, and that has a lot of stuffi found utterly ridiclous that I make fun of.... though code geass does have its fair share or ridiculousness. I mean seriously, suzaku has done thigns that make the flash jealous.

Megan said...

OK, moving the convo back to the comic before things get ugly:

Linkara: Could Harvest be considered a Well-Intentioned Extremist? Because from what Inquisitor D said above in regards to his origin, it seems like he kinda does have a goal, albeit a very, very convoluted and stupid way of achieving it.

Anonymous said...

I just realized this

Harvest = Reaper
as in "reaping the harvest"

that's actually smart!

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"people like you are the reason why feminism is seen as a joke

you don't care about equality or decent treatment, you are just desperately looking for a reason to talk-down to people, and feel better about yourself

go hang you'r head in shame"

Just like with the feminazi comment, I really don't appreciate personal attacks around here. Attack the argument, not the person to the point where you say they should hang their head in shame.

The Trembler said...

Spot on with the motivation of this group. It’s sad how dull it is. If only there was some super-tech brainwashing wave generator that enhanced violent tendencies and made the fighting made one want to be a Ravager, it could approach making sense then. Oh, well.

Seeing characters like Fairchild in this story and learning she’d be in the Ravagers book reminded me of Martian Manhunter being in, I think, Stormwatch, not JLA (though Wikipedia says he joins a sorta JL later). It made me wonder if they mixed and matched characters from different teams as a marketing strategy rather than for storytelling reasons. Want this hero, well read this book, too. I’m sure it happened before, but it feels empty when they story is so lousy.

But having Fairchild in this did remind me, Linkara, of a Gen 13 comic book I think would be for you to review -- specifically, perfect for you to review as a crossover with Todd. (Don’t review it any other way.) Gen 13 #44(Vol. 2) has Fairchild taking on a sentient pop song that seems to have taken over the brains of everyone else in the world. The story ends with her having a conversation of the song. I remember there’s a panel of Madeline Albright quoting the song during TV sparring with another diplomat. I last remember it when Todd showed Colin Powell reciting lyrics to “Call Me Maybe.” Incidentally, it is from this comic I first remember ever encountering the word “meme.” The setup is so insane and fitting for a crossover, that you both would be able to have such fun with it even you like it. I remember thinking it was good; if either of you hated it, that could only make the review funnier. I know I had it at one point, but if I still do, I don’t know where. (Thankfully, I was able to find the issue and volume from this site, where the text reviewer also liked it: http://comicsparadox.blogspot.com/2013/07/flashback-friday-gen-13-44-vol-2.html) Please consider it.


I got a bit down seeing Tom DeFalco as writer. Sure, he’s no stranger to bad comics (and sure, editors crossovers may be more responsible for low quality, here), but the thing I think of him most is Spider-Girl. Which is why I also hope you review something of Marvels MC2 (Spider-Girl’s universe, including other characters, for those who don’t know) comics. I know I wasn’t the only one who thought the Wild Thing #1 you were reviewing was the MC2 version, especially since I remember being really disappointed by that one. Maybe or maybe not bad on its own, it was at least a disappointing entry in the MC2 line. Perhaps you could do a MC2 month some time like you did a 2099 month. Not only could you look over Wild Thing, but in covering Spider-Girl you would be able to examine the MC2 version of Peter Parker, who seems to fit very well with the type of Peter Parker you said you wanted. (Also, if you do another 2099 month, I’d love to see what you think of X-Men 2099 and Ghost Rider 2099.)


This review series is getting my down like few of yours had. But that’s not your fault. I was into Peter David’s Young Justice. It made Superboy likable to me and kept Wonder Girl rising in fun ways. To see the Young Justice (later TT) team reduced to this, it’s sad.

Inquisitor D. said...

@Megan: As the guy who read it... eh. I'm pretty sure that was the writer's goal, given that issue: it's pretty much an entire issue of just Harvest's backstory, and is trying to make him sympathetic. We close on a SYMBOLISM shot with Harvest and his adoptive son.

My main issue with giving him that classification is the same one as Linkara gives here. He's fairly classically evil. He's twisted by revenge against metahumans, to the point of being willing to do some pretty squicky stuff (kidnapping a kid and raising him for battle and telling them you're their dad...)

His plan also seems to fluctuate just within that issue, with no warning. At first, he wants to wipe out metas. Then his Superboy apparently talked him into 'just' establishing a police state? But then that illness thing triggered, Harvest went back in time again... and seemingly decided to start killing all the metas again for no obvious reason.

And focused on that ALONGSIDE trying to cure his Superboy.

A Well Intentioned Extremist is simply willing to take dangerous or immoral measures for a moral cause. It's hard to see Harvest's end goal as moral, since there were so many other ways he could've gone about it with just a moment's thought.

SPOILER

He's a time traveller. And at first, had at will personal time travel abilities. He's used them up by the time of this comic, but yeah... time traveller. Trying to stop the war, that to him, will lead to the extermination of baseline humanity.

And 'Kidnap Clark and Lois' kid and train him to serve you' was his plan A. As opposed to, I don't know, track down whatever event triggered the war and stop it?

That's what pushes him over for me: he didn't think about alternatives and reject them. He just jumped straight to a stupid convoluted plan, seemingly because of his own hatred for metahumans.

...

WAITAMINUTE

*spoilers*

OK, Harvest's got some knowledge of the Legion, right? This comic implied that, ECHO, or whatever. So logically, he knows something about them, their tech, and their civilization.

... The Legion civilization was FILLED with metahumans. Hence there being enough of them to form the Legion. And Harvest's story is pretty heavily implied to be taking place in the same timeline: we get a reference to the... Science Police, IIRC? Time Bubbles? Something Leigon-y, and it's specifically set in the 30th century. So, immediately before the Legion, who come from the 31st.

So, the implication is that the war Harvest was involved in... ended in the utopica style society of the Legion setting? Peace between humans and metas, wonders and high science...

And Harvest knows that history. He was the one who messed with the Legion Lost.

And he STILL thinks that wiping out metahumanity is the only way to save mankind... The only moral option, the ONLY way they can be saved...

WHAT?

... Was there another comic that explained this? Because from what I've got, I'm drawing a blank.

Doresh said...

For those comparing Harvest with Aizen: I'd say Harvest is WORSE.
Sure, Aizen became an absurd carricature in a horrible, long-drawn-out storyline whose author was obviously making stuff up as he went along to milk his succesful manga for all it was worth, but he started out rather competent. Not only did he state a clear goal from the start (essentially "Kick God off his throne and take his place"), but his recruiting strategy made actual sense ("Make the enemies of my future enemy my loyal followers and turn the strongest ones into super soldiers").
But Harvest? He doesn't even try to look sane and goes right to the ridiculous fight scene that can only end with the reader throwing the comic away in frustration.

N. said...

Lewis, I am disappointed in your defense of your reprehensible admonishment of feminism. You were merely joking? Feminism is not something to joke about. I respect that, in your way, you want to be on the right side of history but your callous thoughtlessness damages the work of every feminist that has come before you. By making a "joke" about the importance of the Bechdel test, you belittle and demean it. By implying that it can be so easily and meaninglessly passed you give credence to the misogynists that would dismiss the feminist critique.

To the rest of this forum, I stand by my evaluation. By placing these characters in a "cat-fight" the authors disrespect them, and they support the idea that only violent physical combat can be used to resolve conflict. You may say this is endemic to the genre, but only by identifying and consciously rejecting such objectionable content can we say to the peddlers of it that we are smarter that this and demand true portrayals of characters in all mediums.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Lewis, I am disappointed in your defense of your reprehensible admonishment of feminism. You were merely joking? Feminism is not something to joke about. I respect that, in your way, you want to be on the right side of history but your callous thoughtlessness damages the work of every feminist that has come before you. By making a "joke" about the importance of the Bechdel test, you belittle and demean it. By implying that it can be so easily and meaninglessly passed you give credence to the misogynists that would dismiss the feminist critique."

The Bechdel test is an indicator of the lack of stories that feature named female characters speaking to each other about non-male activities, not the end-all, be-all of feminism. I make light not of the test itself but rather that the comic has so few positives going for it that I concede what I can to it.

"To the rest of this forum, I stand by my evaluation. By placing these characters in a "cat-fight" the authors disrespect them, and they support the idea that only violent physical combat can be used to resolve conflict. You may say this is endemic to the genre, but only by identifying and consciously rejecting such objectionable content can we say to the peddlers of it that we are smarter that this and demand true portrayals of characters in all mediums."

...How exactly was their battle a "cat fight?" Both characters were apparently well-established in the Superboy series and had a history together but their character choices were putting them in different directions that lead to natural conflict given the circumstances. I may find the circumstances and the overall plot to BE stupid, but nothing about their battle suggests it to be done for, as it used to be called on the Girl-Wonder.org forums, "Sexy, sexy violence." In fact, another positive I can give to this series is that aside from Dawnstar's boob window (which has been an ongoing problem for the character and superheroine costumes long before this comic), it's doing very little, if any, in terms of sexually objectifying the heroines.

I fear you may be looking for problems with this series that don't exist, especially when it has so many other glaring faults to critique.

Megan said...

In regards to the Bechdel Test: Just because a work of fiction fails it does not make it bad, and just because something passes does not make it good. It's got nothing to do with feminism, to be perfectly honest. It's a writing exercise, no more, no less.

Anonymous said...

I understand that everyone has their own opinion, and that this is most likely putting myself into the middle of a discussion between N and Lewis which neither wish but, something bothers me about what N said.

"By placing these characters in a "cat-fight" the authors disrespect them, and they support the idea that only violent physical combat can be used to resolve conflict. You may say this is endemic to the genre, but only by identifying and consciously rejecting such objectionable content can we say to the peddlers of it that we are smarter that this and demand true portrayals of characters in all mediums."

I am trying to figure out if I am understanding the argument but, it almost sounds as if your position is that women should not fight, that physical confrontations should be the realm of only the muscular lunkheads known as man, and that women should not engage in physical fighting because that is man things, and instead should find other, 'woman appropriate' ways to resolve conflicts. Either that, or you are extrapolation feminism as an end to violence and fights. Either way, if this is your argument, it seems at odds with feminism.

However, I am willing to concede that I may have misunderstand your argument. Any ways, just wanted to put that out there, for whatever reason.

f18c9396-0f95-11e3-acb7-000bcdcb8a73 said...

Hey Linkara! Still loving your reviews, and I'm enjoying your take on the New 52. I've gotta wonder though, even after you ran down what comics from the relaunch that you liked and are reading and all that....
What's the overall state of affairs in your...
Can I call it "hobby" of reading comics? Is that the right word?
I mean, with so many of the books you like being canceled or going bad or what not, are you trying other DC comics, or are you reading more Marvel now, or indie stuff or tapering off all together?
I'm sorry if this has been asked before. Didn't see it. Just curious as to what you're up too. Especially after your Man of Steal VLOG where you discussed, in part, how Marvel is starting to be more like pre reboot DC.

Anyways, keep up the great reviews. I look forward to every monday again. Used to be Prison Break that got me up on mondays, now its you. And Im sorry if you don't take that as the compliment its intended to be. LOL

Anonymous said...

As someone who's regretted laying eyes on one of the issues of the Ravagers, it's a great comic to feature on Atop the Fourth Wall, as it excels at being a bad comic. I think it explains in the Ravagers that they don't actively "keep" the name as much as that's just what people still call them. From what I can tell, it's less a superhero book, and more a metahuman version of the Most Dangerous Game where harvest and his still loyal minions hunt, track, and probably kill those that abandoned him, and the returning D-listers from other comics that were revived to be Ravagers. You know, in case anyone actually was attached to the characters that seem a shameless tribute to the 90's.

Anonymous said...

I generally thought Ravagers was an ok series, albeit with a rather stupid ending that made it pointless
(spoilers, Harvest comes in, beats everyone up, and drags them back to NOWHERE, the end)

and as pointed out before, id did feel more like an actual Teen Titans book

Anonymous said...

Um. Hey, N.... Uhm. Buddy. Word of advice for you at this point, to avoid further looking like more of an idiot....

Don't know why I'm taking the position of trying to help you here, but, honestly it's looking kind of pathetic at this point, and it's sad to see someone stuck in denial continue to flounder like this.... so I'm going to attempt to help, anyway.

And my advice is: Stop. Admit when you're wrong. Because you're wrong.

Now, if we go back and look at this... A few things clearly happened here.

1. You completely failed to understand what the Bechdel test actually is, and your understanding of it from a factual basis, was completely incorrect.

2. Linkara pointed out the truth of the fact of the matter here that you failed to properly understand what the Bechdel test is and proved that your statement was wrong and incorrect. Not from an "opinion" level, but on the basis of a fact. A fact that you got wrong.

And everything you said after that, was based entirely on your wrong statement. So by logical standards, everything you said henceforth, relating to your wrong assumption? It was also wrong.

You can't "stand by what you said", when "what you said" has been proven to be wrong. On a factual level.

You are wrong. Incorrect. Not actually right. What you said was proven to be untrue. You said an untrue statement. A statement, that from a factual level, was incorrect.

Incorrect means wrong. Wrong means you were incorrect. And incorrect means that you were mistaken. And when I say "mistaken", I mean that you were wrong. Because you are wrong. It was wrong. What you said was wrong. Factually. Not true. The opposite of the basis of what is determined to be a fact. The anti-right. Which means wrong.

Am I making this clear enough? At this point, I don't think you quite get this in a way which will get through to you, so please pardon me for re-iterating it this many times. But I need to make sure.

The reality is that you were wrong about the Bechdel test. It was wrong. You were wrong. You got it wrong. And you were wrong.

What this means is, there's absolutely, positively, nothing FOR you to "stand by" here. You following, here? Linkara told you were wrong. I'm telling you hat were wrong. Three other people or so told you you were wrong. Because you ARE wrong.

You said you knew what the Bechdel test was. You do not know what the Bechdel test was. And you were wrong, regarding what you think the Bechdel test was.

Admit it. Because your indignant here will neither make your wrong statement right, nor will it help you regain any credibility that you can't get back, by being in denial about how wrong you were. Take the bruised ego, and stop justifying your ignorance and your wrong statement. I know this is going to be hard for you to do, based on your desperate attempt to make yourself seem right, but there's a time to give such things up. This is that time, N.

So, it's time. Time to let it go. Time to stop being indignant. Time to stop justifying yourself. Learn a lesson. And move on. Because you were wrong. You are wrong. You continue to be wrong. And the world goes on, even THOUGH you're wrong. It happens. It does. I know it must seem right now as if it doesn't. But it does. Trust me, it does.

So, I think at this point we can all finally admit that you're wrong, and move on. And let it go. Just... let it go, man. Let it fly off into the breeze.

...But yeah...

.......seriously.

..........You're wrong, N.

Megan said...

@Inquisitor-D: Ahh, I see. Thanks for clearing things up.

And sorry I'm just responding now, but the whole 'N' thing is fascinating...

*munches on popcorn*

Furrama said...

Mwister Twime Twavewer would almost get points for having an original design if he wasn't pretty much a darker looking rip off of the mass production eva's from End of Evangelion. Same teeth, body type, wings, polearm like weapon....

Ian said...

I think I liked the Wonder Woman animated movie. The "fish out of water" scenes kind of bothered me, and I didn't like that guy, but overall it was faithful to Erin K. Stein's interpretation of the character.

When are you reviewing Madame Xanadu: Disenchanted by Matt Wagner, Amy Reeder Hadley, and Richard Friend? It says "Classic" --Variety on the cover, but I don't know. Seems like a Mists of Avalon knock off to me.

biropg said...

have to say, your new voice for harvest has to be the funniest shit i have seen on tgwtg since your portrayal of mechakara in to boldly flee. im almost hoping he'll star in another horrible crossover just so you could do more of it.

and now for superhero team names better than "the ravagers":
team rocket, team plasma, team magma, team aqua, team galactic, cipher, the pokedex holders, the pokemon fanclub, the gym leaders, the elite four, the pokemon association, the konoha 11, the rookie 9, the seven swordsmen of the mist, Karakura-Raizer Team, the seven warlords of the sea, Baroque Works, the four emperors, the four heavenly kings, the godhand, The Nerima Wrecking Crew, the nights watch, the (monster)hunter association, the kings of winter, the manhatten clan, the london clan, the wyern clan,the paris clan, teenage mutant ninja turtles, the z warriors, the resistance, the 12 apostles, the toa, the alliance, the umbrella corporation, the dragonero, starfox, Bombers Secret Society of Justice, the carpenters, the Clock Town Carnival Executive Committee, the Gorman Troupe, the knights of hyrule, The Indigo-Go's, the rescue knights, the kingsguard, the stormcloaks, the mage guild, the fighter guild, the companions, ysgramors 500 companions, the blades, the dragonborn of tamriel, the mythic dawn, nightingales, the greybeards, the circle, dawnguard, the silver hand,the royal house of stark, the smash brothers, the marines, the kings of the rock, the stormkings, the protectors of the realm, the wardens of east/south/west/north, the first men, the ironborn, the seven, the old gods, the others, nintendo, the brave companions, the maesters of the citadel, the windblown, the stromcrows, the iron shields, the company of the cat, the golden company, bridge four, and many many more, and not one of these were taken from superhero stories.

Paul Toon said...

... This... is... GLORIOUS!!!!

Anonymous said...

Be vewy, vewy quiet. I'm hunting wavagews

Sephiroth1204 said...

So, according to your list at the start, "The Ravagers" is a better name than "the Tandy Computer Whiz Kids?"

Justine said...

I'm offended Linkara. That accent you use for Harvester is just bad. I'm from New York, and people always make fun of the way I tawk. And how I say cawfee.

Roy said...

I'm looking at some of the comments on the page, and it's irritating me what people choose to focus on. I thought this episode was really funny, and there are comment-arguements about feminism? None of the characters are done well in Culling male or female, and am I the only one that doesn't know what the Bechdel test is? And I don't think anything Linkara said in this video was offensive. And the way people just go on and on about. I'm irritated because it was a funny episode. Got Batgirl Vol 2 in the mail today. Read the first two issues. It's good, so far. Didn't know it was going to go into the past the way it does. I like it already.

--Katherine

Anonymous said...

"I thought this episode was really funny, and there are comment-arguements about feminism? None of the characters are done well in Culling male or female, and am I the only one that doesn't know what the Bechdel test is? And I don't think anything Linkara said in this video was offensive. And the way people just go on and on about."

Well, to be fair, only one person actually complained about that (twice), and most of the comments on the topic were just, er, correcting them. Though I kind of agree with your sentiment that people got way too hung up on harping about one person's crazy ideas about what's offensive (especially since Linkara already responded to that person's comments, and he's the one they were directed towards in the first place), while neglecting to actually comment on the episode's content (Speaking of which: For the record, Harvest became a much more memorable villain in my mind once he was given the Abridged Paradox voice, and Ravagers is about on par with Doom's 4 as far as stupid names for teams.) Hopefully the whole thing is over now, as long as people stop talking about it. Which is the exact opposite of what I just did. Crud.

Anonymous said...

In re Roy: The Bechdel test is a test of whether or not two female characters in a story have a conversation that doesn't revolve around a man (surprisingly few stories do sometimes).

However it's been pointed out that a story can be feminist without it and a story can be misogynist even if it does pass the tests.

For example two female characters in a short story might talk about a man, but the context is that they are both prosecutors talking about the crimes he's committed.

On the other hand, a story might have two lesbians talk about how they find each other attractive, but it might be written in a way that makes it clear that the writer is trying to say that lesbians are wrong.

In other words it can be useful, but the Bechdel test is not perfect.

Ozaline said...

@N

The Bechdel test is really only useful in aggregate, looking at the percentage of movies, comics or what not that pass as opposed to those that don't pass. It doesn't say anything about the work itself.

The example given in the original strip from Dykes to Watch Out For references Alien, a movie where the two women briefly describe the titular monster in the film. That really doesn't advance the character development of either woman, one of whom was only in the film to be another victim.

The point of the Bechdel test is that it's supposed to be an incredibly low bar. Two women can discuss weather, politics, the economy, music, anything! They can say hello to each other on the street. They can talk about a man even, in addition to something else. The point is that with such a low bar the vast majority of movies (and comics) still fail. Adding extra rules and hoops to jump through like judging the quality of the dialogue is fine for analyzing a film (or comic) on its own merits but takes some power away from the complaint.



Anonymous said...

So, this heated comment debate, I have something to add.

http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-bechdel-test-its-not-about-passing/
I don't know if this source is credible or not, but it is an article

It passes, but it doesn't matter, as the only reason for it is to notice whether or not the comic is so male-centric that there exist prominent enough primary characters beyond just a token girl turtle named Kirby.

Here's the thing: It passes, Linkara didn't say that this made it feminist-positive, nor does the test itself, we can only gleam from it that it's a step ahead of Sultry Teenage Superfoxes and DOOM'S 4.

Now, back OT.
@Rabbi Joe: The most common use of Ravish is in quoting or misquoting Revelations, about the locust would ravish the land, which give them a sort of Pestilence first horseman sort of feel, especially when compared against the obvious fourth horseman death Analogue. Still a dumb name, but less rapey than you might think!(TM).

I just got to thinking, I know this is personal preference, but I kinda like those sorts with the unstoppable badguy, or usually the near unstoppable, as when it's done right the victory feels all the more sweet. Though when done wrong (see here) the assessment is correct.

Breno Ranyere said...

if a goo book is canceled due to low sales is the company's fault for not advertising enough, or the fans for not buyning enough?

Anonymous said...

"So, this heated comment debate, I have something to add."

What debate? This isn't a debate. N is the only dissenter. Everyone else is just building on the same points on why N is wrong. I don't even think N is participating anymore. There's no reason to go on.

le-messor said...

Woot! I love Blue Öyster Cult!

WELEASE WOGER!

~ Mik

Roy said...

@ anonymous

What does that have to do with Batgirl?

Anonymous said...

Amazing review and two things:

1] Okay Harvest now has the perfect voice, it fits his i have a cool design but I make no sense!


2] it was the 20th anniversary of Power Rangers a few days ago, how did you cerebrate it? I Celebrate by watching all of HOPR :3

Ming said...

Great review. Loved your impression of Harvest, both the standard sinister villain voice and the Elmer Fudd type voice.

Harvest's visual design does look impressive. Unfortunately, everything else about Harvest is just stupid -- the God mode Sue way in which he overpowers everyone, his claims that every heroes' victory has gone exactly as he intended, all his actions (the complete extermination of all metahumans) was for the greater good, etc., etc., etc. Xanatos, Sosuke Aizen, Palpatine, and even Prometheus are all mocking you, Harvest.

I have this feeling that the last part will be the most frustrating for you all. Get Margaret on standy . . .

Nitz the Bloody said...

Plenty of the New 52 comics are reader-friendly, in that the first issues (by way of digital comics) and first trades are kept in circulation, providing a starting point for whenever someone wants to try it. The ideal purpose of the reboot was to streamline the continuity so that these first issues COULD provide a fresh start for new readers.

And yes, this Culling story is wretched, but it's only one small part of the line, and a part that most people have already written off as wretched. There are plenty of very good comics that have come out of the New 52, including the ones you haven't mentioned or wrote off because they weren't how you envisioned the characters (correct me if I'm wrong, but you didn't like Action Comics under Morrison, Azarello's Wonder Woman, and the new Shazam, but based your complaints entirely on the characters and setting being different than how you envision them to be).

With all due respect, if you want to make a genuinely persuasive critique of the New 52, you would best go after higher proifle books, the ones that sell better (or, for an even greater challenge, the ones that receive critical acclaim). You could also go after the New 52's policy changes, the ones that effect the creators and retailers directly (such as their repeated alienating of writers due to heavy editorial meddling), instead of relying on repeating out-of-context talking points like the "our comics are only for 45-year-olds" line. And if you just want to do a humorous show about making fun of bad comics, it would be best to just go after The Culling because it sucks, not for its association with your larger problem with the New 52.

I don't mean to sound as though I'm insulting you, as I think there's a lot wrong with the New 52, and I'm confident that you could give a persuasive argument against it without just resorting to complaining over the rebooted continuity and character changes.

Anonymous said...

Maybe we're meant to assume that as a time traveller, Harvest already tried all of the obvious solutions and his plan has only become this evil and complicated in this nth iteration.

That was not a serious theory, that was grasping at straws. Though it does seem to be very applicable to other time-travel stories.

Anonymous said...

wait, so Revager is an ok name when it comes to the New Teen Titans no.1 but its not ok for the New52 Teen Titans/legionlost/superboy villain team???

you are so biased and skewed in your opinions it reminds me of Chris Chan

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"wait, so Revager is an ok name when it comes to the New Teen Titans no.1 but its not ok for the New52 Teen Titans/legionlost/superboy villain team???

you are so biased and skewed in your opinions it reminds me of Chris Chan"

No, it's a stupid name for a hero, too. You notice how I rarely, if ever, call her Ravager? I call her Rose Wilson because that's her friggin' name and it's not as stupid as "Ravager" for a hero.

Also, the hell are you talking about "New Teen Titans #1?" You mean the second issue? When it was taken up by a VILLAIN?

Arianne said...

This comicbook crossover just makes me want to rewatch the awesome in my opinion , that is the animated Planet Hulk movie. Oh, I really liked the end credits tune and the new Harvest voice.
I too don't like the super hero team name, the Ravagers .
As for my opinion on Harvester, he's a waste of a good villain design. With a name like the Harvester I was expecting, a grim reaper type baddie that harvested souls of the wrongdoers and begins to suck souls out people who committed petty crimes and he ends up being morally confused because he can't decide if he's really a good guy or not, or a Eco terrorist that harvested a planet's resources and demands a ransom. Not someone who can't figure out how to place a wanted ad. Also, the power level of his is absurd. Weaknesses are needed in everyone

Anonymous said...

Harvest: Since when were you under the impression that I wasn't Aizen?

*takes off mask, reveals Aizen trollface*