Something tells me this one won't be discussed in any mythology classes.
NOTE: Forgot to get the cover ready for this one before I went on my trip, so it's just on the front page. Also, Al was out of town duruing this one, so couldn't get a title card ready.
Monday, April 12, 2010
Athena #1
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
231 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 231 of 231I don't think it's that much of an exception. I'm sure that creators do it a lot more than you give them credit for.
Also, thanks for all the help Celey to prove my point.
"Alrighty, proof is good. My initial point still stands, though - exception is not the rule."
Even though, that pic I posted of Nightwing, drawn by Nicola Scott from Secret Six#9, shows his butt in a a pretty detailed way?
Or the many other pics of Dick Grayson in a state of undress?
Good Lord, Lewis. This not a can of worms you've opened. This is a beehive. These are some of the longest comments I've read on any blog, and surprisingly, everyone's managed to stay level-headed. The trouble I run into is that discussing feminism with anyone usually just results in the knee-jerk mocking response of "women belong in the kitchen!" Well, that doesn't work in modern society anymore, which makes the premise all the more headshakingly stupid.
Hey Lewis, this is going a bit off-topic, but it's still related, so I hope I can get you to answer:
Are you familiar with the Videogame "Baynonetta"? Because a whole lot of things is wrong with her spine. ^^
I always love how this is turned into a whole, "but guys are sexualised a lot too" argument. It completely misses the point.
Instead of comparing who's sexualised, turn it around.
How many guys are not sexualised?
How many girls?
That's the real question I feel. Look at Hollywood. Yes, they have both attractive males and females, but if you notice, you'll see more overweight men then overweight women.
Now to be not sexualised, you don't need to overweight, but it stills shows that women need to be pretty, while guys don't.
I mean, look at Deadpool's face. You'd never see a female lead with a face like that in comics I bet.
Men and women may be sexualised, but only guys can be plain or ugly.
"I mean, look at Deadpool's face. You'd never see a female lead with a face like that in comics I bet."
What about Lady Deadpool? xD
Hmm? Mostly, all I did was ogle at Nightwing! :)... Man, those Nightwing pics are so hot...
And well... Seems most of this is centered around Nightwing... It's hard to how many superheroes are sexualized, but I can tell you, Goose... It's not very many. :(...
On the other hand, this goes back to that dismissive attitude I was talking about... *It was late, so I wasn't really paying too much attention*
Linkara, regardless of how many men are sexualized... If you saw even just one sexualized in a manner that's tasteless... You'd still put up a fight about it, wouldn't you?
I gotta say... going back to that Nightwing bondage pic... I'm not exactly sure whether he's about to be tortured or not (there are villains in the background, afterall)... But still... It is disturbing seeing Dick Grayson dangling from chains, shirt off and all... (It's already been established that Dick Grayson, at least, is being used to titillate)...
Not to take away from Stephanie Brown's plight at all... I'm speaking on fair terms... Both things sound pretty horrible to me...
Anonymonous, I'm not exactly sure what your point is... But if it's that sexism runs both ways. Then, I agree.
The "only guys can be ugly or plain" is double-edged...
On the one hand, women are forced to meet such unrealistic expectations...
On the other hand, only guys can be ugly or plain... Is this something men should be glad about? It's once again pointing out that guys, on average, are less desirable than women.
hiya Linkara, I've been on an art kick of drawing people I know wearing redesigned versions of various DC character costumes (with an emphasis on thei golden age incarnation).....wow that's a mouthful
so anyway I had some ideas on Blue Beetle and thought "well who better to put behind the Blue Beetle mask than a guy who's a big beetle fan" and so I came up with this, hope you like it
http://jessicaraven.deviantart.com/art/Linkara-is-the-Blue-Beetle-160961836
ok over all great review it was a stupid comic with no story and nonsenceical development but more than that i have to say WHAT THE HELL!!!!! why is Obama everywhere i mean i know people seem to have gone into a zombie like love for the guy durring his ellection enough to nominate him for the nobel peace prize BEFORE HE WAS EVEN ELECTED makeing me think he may acctualy have mind control powers but his comic appearances are just pissing me off i mean he even apeared in manga. MANGA!! i mean how the hell did he get into a compic on the other side of the freaking planet durring his election i mean how the hell did he spread his influance that far in the time it took to get elected and im sorry this turnned political but his appearance ruind one of my favorite manga because of his interuption the storyline was screwed up for no reason the laws of science previously established in the manga were broken and he was only there for two chapters he ruined my favorite comic now i dont care what he does in the real world but i wish he would stay the hell out of my comics and i dont care how stupid the question are you jeasus is (can you belive someone asked him that)you just dont joke "no my fater wasn't god his name was zor'el from planet krypton" you are not fucking superman god danm it!!!!!!!!!! ok im done
Just a tiny comment on fanservice. As has been stated, woman are more likely to be sexualized than men. What does that say about how the creatives view comic fans?
Good review.
...................
I've never understood wye you are required to put a woman in tight fitting, Revealing spandex "Battle Armour" for her to be "Hot".
Never has attracted me, And i'm 16! i'm supposed to be a sex crazed maniac buying anything, And everything with the promise of a naked woman. I think a woman will look just as good in common clothes as in anything else.
On the topic of fan service, I have nothing against it if it's subtle. But to focus on it so much... I just really don't get it.
.....................
On feminism now.
My dad told me, That indeed he used to call himself a femenist, and explained that femenism is supposed to be about equal rights. But there are women who consider men totally evil, And that women should have control.
As linkara has said, This is not the entire of feminism. Just a few who call themselves that.
Equal rights is equal rights. No need to overcomplicate it by saying "This person said this" and so forth.
An example is i'm christian. But would i have participated in the crusades? No. (PS, I'm also not a fanatic who is offended by the sight of a naked woman. Women are as free to do what they want with there body as i am.)
...............................
As far as womens fanservice goes, I don't notice it much unless it is glareingly obvious.
Also i must add, Every one needs to understand the difference between fanservice, And people in say, Bathing suits. Perhaps, Once again this is considered "Hot" but wye does this particularly mean fanservice? It's just a bathing suit , Which is a practicle outfit to swim in. which happens to show of more than a tee-shirt and jeans.
The trend i see in superheroes, Is armor that "Happens" to be more revealing than normal cloths, Yet also happens not to be practicle in any way.
Get my point?
Personally? I find your rants on the sexism so common in comics refreshing and heartening. They're one of the many reasons you're one of my favourite reviewers.
So keep rocking, Linkara.
Celey, "The "only guys can be ugly or plain" is double-edged...
On the one hand, women are forced to meet such unrealistic expectations...
On the other hand, only guys can be ugly or plain... Is this something men should be glad about? It's once again pointing out that guys, on average, are less desirable than women."
Who said guys are less desirable than women? Tell that to any straight woman. The reason why this happens is, again, because most of this media is made by men and targeted towards men. Also, it's something for women to be upset about because it is lacking in representing diversity.
Moreover, I feel that always presenting a group of people in this way, as unaffected by age and overall paragons of beauty... can be somewhat dehumanizing. Because all the grit and wrinkles and imperfections are part of being human, thus having some more of this can help humanize characters. Make them more people we can relate to than just obvious eye candy showpieces. Just in term of art direction and design, creating human and flawed characters that an audience can connect to... I think that's something wonderful to aim for.
It's not that one can't relate to a conventionally beautiful character... it's just that if one group (in this case, women) are shown in this way over and over... it's like we're not allowed to be truly seen, warts and all.
And on another note, i have some dispute with your vision of feminism - at least the versions of it I've seen, there's lots of activism for not just women, but also LGBT people and people of colour. And I find these communities, while their purpose is not to discuss the problems of men, tend to look down on things like laughing about male rape or prison rape jokes against men. While their focus is on women's issues, I see a lot of sensitivity towards men too. When there is anger about men's issues being brought up is when it's used to derail a conversation.
Well of course she has to be in bed for 3 days, females are so weak and helpless and thus need the extra time to heal and mentally get over it.
Ugh reading some of the comments, I honestly don't read comics due to the fact that women are always posed in such a way to show of both their T AND A, despite that it would break their spine. Also, ever notice that all comicbook women are wearing lipstick. I think a friend pointed out to me in the Wonder Woman animated movie that even THE LITTLE GIRL was wearing lipstick.
Make-up is by far the most sexist things out there (playing off the fact that women are attributed by their looks not their brains).
Can Some one explain the antigone's father joke? I know her father was Oedipus, but what does that have to do with Obama, or Athena for that matter? The gods weren't really very active in those plays from what I remember, barring the oracle being a a follower of Apollo. Linkara said that it was an obvious joke, but maybe I know too much on the matter to be able to see it.
The problem with you, Linkara, is you think with your brains instead of your balls; which is why you couldn't understand this comic. Too bad for you!
People thought you were gay? I've seen straighter men gayer than you (No offense to anyone).
Wait, Youngblood did an Obama comic? They still make Youngblood comics?
I realise that this comment is more than a year late (I’m a pretty recent fan, and I’m catching up on your older videos bit by bit), but I had to say it:
THANK YOU.
The fact that you are such a passionate and articulate feminist is one of the major reasons I love your reviews, and I thought that you made your point beautifully in this review in particular. And it’s encouraging to see how many of the comments here support you.
Honestly, I’ve always thought that the whole culture of reducing female characters to gratuitous fanservice was insulting to men, as well as to women. Comic creators who go down that route treat women like wallpaper – both female characters, who are treated as only there for decoration, and female fans, who are ignored as if they’re only background. But these creators also treat male fans as though they’ve got two-second attention spans and no ability to appreciate a good story, and need something shiny dangled in front of them on every page to hold their interest. If I were a male comic reader, I’d be offended.
Great job tearing this comic apart, and taking a well-deserved shot at the cheesecake culture at the same time.
Make mine Linkara!
It's an interesting review and many of your points are valid and had a lot of sense. The overuse of sexual themes can and had damaged the plot and seriousness of the work in comics.
The only thing that truly baffled me is your points in the cover.
Yes, ancient greeks didn't use thongs and could be uncomfortable to use in battle.
Is very difficult if not impossible to fight in stilettos.
But why is that a problem in a comic character?
I mean, sexuality and ass shot free aside, what does it matter that the greeks didn't use thongs and using high heels in combat is non-realistic?
In what point any of the comics, in any moment stated that they where absolutely historical correct? Why do you suspension of disbelief suffered by the use of footwear and make you scoff and retailate against the efficiency of a fictional character?
Using spandex as clothes is unconfortabble, battle retarded and completely obscene (not to mention ridiculous) in polite society.
80% of the weapons by super heroes are flat out impossible to wield, are wielded wrong or do things that are incapable to do in real life.
There where never any greek gods and if they existed, they would have absolutely nothing to do with the representation done in any comic medium so far.
By the rules of physics and chemistry one shouldn't be able to: Alter its size, phase trought soly matter, float, be capable of instantly change course at mack 10 speed, solidify energy, move at super speed, exchange termal states of bodies beyond the 2 tons in matter of seconds, sentient minerals, instant regeneration, teletransport matter, mutate the DNA in a overnight, produce energy greater that the one biological necessary to his body and so on.
Why if any of this things that completely and utterly disregard any of the rules of our world far beyond what could any respectable scientist should accept, if they brake the norms of the universe so thoroughly, of common sense and normality wich such flippant casualness is stilettos and underwear that throw you out of the wall?
Why does the use of sexy footwear or a piece of clothe in the ass crack make you rave and scoff and offhand dismiss any combat capability and sneer at the never stated historical/military accuracy ?
It's just that it came like pointless nitpicking and almost hypocrit statement (once again, letting outside the abuse of sex appeal) that your willing suspension of disbelief could be taxed by this but accept the rest of non-sense that make the entire of the Comic (and fantasy) world what it is.
Also, there is a lot of male eye candy in comics. So they don't show the contorne of the penis... so what? They don't show the contorn of the vagina but there is a lot of ass shots of super heroes, several comics where the abs and muscular physics are highlighted, where super heroes appear in almost all the rainbow of masculine appeal, both physical and emotional. Shirtless scenes, bath scenes, men at work, in the rain, training, studying, cooking, enjoying the great arts or the tumble and rumble in the highway of life and so on.
I mean, female body objectification is a problem in comics, but its not as one sided as you make it look like and Male body objectification is equally done. Maybe is not what many female readers found attractive and that is a problem, not catering their tastes, but it cannot be said that many male super heroes don't recieve as good as the other team.
Just a comment on the Obama bit, it wasn't just comic books doing this. No Barack was appearing in various media forms, such as puppets, video games, and heck even manga and anime series.
There is one that really sticks in my head is from the Air Gear manga, where the Obama character (named John Omaha) swapped bodies with a young girl, he then proceeded to basically have fun with the new body, and after some plot related stuff, had to use a certain catch-phrase of his, plus a weird smile, that probably only he would want to make, in order to convince people that this young teenage girl was the President. There is even a scene of him coming out of the shower, after 'inspecting' his new body... yeah...
After a comic like this it makes me wonder what you think of Witchblade. personally I like Witchblade the series is tied with the darkness it's not only women but also men who subject themselves to the concept and our heroin shows she competent and hot unlike Athena who's just here for spank material. but then again I probably have bad taste after all I loved Identity Crisis and thought it was a well told murder story and as you stated in the pass you hated it.
News: Dynamite's Athena is making a comeback in Dynamite's crossover event 'Prophecy"!
J.A.P.
"I mean, female body objectification is a problem in comics, but its not as one sided as you make it look like and Male body objectification is equally done. Maybe is not what many female readers found attractive and that is a problem, not catering their tastes, but it cannot be said that many male super heroes don't recieve as good as the other team."
Yeah, I don't know what comics you've been reaing but no, it is not equally done. Please, how many comic covers do you know, where superheroes do ridiculous poses and show their asses? Those moments you mention exist but they are definetly not as comon or intended for fanservice. When they are "cooking, trainning, at work" it's them cooking, training, being at work ect. That's all it is, it's not intended as fanservice. And hinlighted abs are almost never to make them look sexy, they are here to make heroes look badass and strong. Yes, there are male heroes that do get sexualised (although almost all of them also have some sorts of dimensions and personalities, unlike Athena here for example), but they are definetly in huge minority.
Ok, I'm a little late to the ball but here's my 2 cents.
Hospitals in Greece do suck as bad as you say and worse. She is lucky to have a room of her own, normal the doctors are hard pressed to find the pacients beads (deu to bugget cuts in the heath department by the goverment.) And also, in Greece only the male surname can end in -os or -is or -as the female must end in -ou or -i or -a. For example "Olimpios" is for male, the female one is "Olimpiou"
Sorry for the long nitpicking comment. Keep up the good work!!! ^^
I think I know now - What the Floronic man wrote in the sky that shocked the new guardians; it wasn't writing at all he just drew Athena's ass in the clouds! Athena and the president must have seen it too.
It is true that there's a lot of eye candy in comics; but so what? Comics written for females tend to have a lot of eye candy for them, which is not to the taste of the straight males... does that mean they should be purged?
The fact is that superhero comics are overhwelmingly paid for by males, and so they try and entice those consumers to keep on paying. They'll try out whatever will make them money.
If you genuinely think women will buy Robin in a g-string, why not sponsor some equivalent; but I think you'll just lose your money.
Prove me wrong! Become rich!
Unless, deep down, you suspect I'm right - but because male sexuality is something we are conditioned by Feminism(TM) to despise, it seems to me that you are eager to remove it's hated presence from the superhero comic book genre - while happily leaving the female equivalents to proceed in their assorted gyno-erotic fashions.
I like having sexy characters. I don't like it when they are sexy and nothing else is going on - but Wonder Woman in the sexy version of her costume? Yes please!
And from the comments of some women I know, there's quite a few female fans who like her that way too.
As for the bulked up look, I have noticed women desire men just like that .. the boyish look also sells, admittedly, but if you glance at the covers of romance novels, you'll see a lot of the models used could double for superhero comics too.
@Brett Caton:
One - all of your arguments have already been addressed and responded to in the previous 200+ comments.
Two - This episode is four years old and the arguments you are making are tired and have been addressed before in general.
Three - this is the OLD website. If you look at the most recent post, you will see that there is a new Atop the Fourth Wall website where you can post if you're truly so passionate about an awful, awful comic and it's horrible depiction of women and its title character.
I started here
And clicked on link
"The Previous Athena review can be found
here!"
where i commented. Looks like links are pointing to old website.. so it's not surprising that that's where I commented, rather than the new.
@Brett Caton:
Aaaah, forgive my confusion, then. ^^;
Yeah, with the migration to the new website, there are a lot of links and whatnot that need to be changed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! ^_^
"I'm sorry to disappoint my gay or bisexual male fans..."
*wink, finger-gun*
Post a Comment