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Monday, April 25, 2011
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212 comments:
1 – 200 of 212 Newer› Newest»Yeah okay, In so many ways, full of stupid..
Is it strange that the most fascinating thing that I found out of the whole review, is that I noticed that Linkara may drink the same flavor of Gatorade that I do. It was sitting on the couch arm in the end.
Okay, first thing first. What the hell was that Comic?
It would be better sold as a swimsuit sketchbook. Then again from what little I know about Avengelyne her lack of plot and clothes isn't anything new. This whole comic left a bad taste in my mouth, it really wasn't worth arguing about.
Yet another example of Rob Liefeld's lack of talent. Forget art, the man just can't create anything. Characters included.
Now onto the stinger… interesting I get the feeling that's conga to come back and bite the rest of the story line… if anyone bothers to watch the damn thing.
Not sure if there is anything left to say. Stupidly bad comic (with such a lack of research it's as if the writers hadn't even heard of history) with impossible art work and no plot to speak of. I think I just summed up Liefeld's work in total
Thomas
"Oh hey it's about time for a new AT4W to be posted, oh boy!" :D
*opens page, sees the comic for the week*
*dawning recognition*
"Oh, OH GOD NOOOO NOT THIS COMIC!" D:
When I heard the scream of "MORTAL COMBAT!!!" I was laughing so hard watching this and was simultanously awestruck by the awsomeness.
I do agree that this is incredibly racist, but come on, once you see the greek gods appear before Jesus, its pretty obvious that no religious connotations were taken into account at this point.
Besides, whenever mage makes something, it was pretty much written for laughs, like, well, "The Goddyssey"
Kung-fu Action Jesus? Srsly?
Did anybody at Image even think that "gee that first scene might be a bad idea." It is a really touchy subject when having religious figures or religion in general in main stream media, not to mention stupid.
Seems the comic was just an excuse to try being offensive and to draw half naked women.
Wow... I'd heard about this comic before so I knew it would be dumb, but I never expected it to be quite so stupid. Great review as always Linkara!
Avengaline dies, and nothing of value was lost
What no snide "Talking out their ass" jokes with all the butt shots? Seriously, at 10:45 the speech bubble comes right out of a pair of cheeks. At least in your average "Beetle Bailey" comic strip you get balloons coming from awkward places like their elbows or shoulders, but the literally have a speech bubble pointing to a set of hips is unforgivable even in this abysmal trash.
Actually, the Greek pantheon was still pretty widely recognized in the Roman empire. The Romans liked to incorporate the gods of every civilization under their empire into their recognized stable of religions to avoid potentially offending any of those deities. The reason why Christians (and Jews before them) got in trouble is because they were hardcore monotheists and denied the divinity of the Roman emperor, and thus were labeled as traitors.
And DEAR SWEET LORD this comic is terrible. As someone who's studied christian theology this is just ridiculous and I could write a full senior thesis on the problems with it.
You know what they say about shoulder pads. One is always bigger than the other.
BTW, I hear that Liefeld is now a born-again Christian.
Also, I'm really disappointed that you made no mention (at least in the beginning, haven't watched the rest yet) of the upcoming Avengelyne series (which isn't written or drawn by Liefeld, and actually looks pretty cool) or that Alan Moore wrote a few issues of Glory (although the end of his story-arc was never published, but Liefeld has the scripts to them, so God willing we'll seem them completed someday).
Am I imagining things, or was Linkara's hat breathing in that stinger?
I'll admit that I'm not a very religious person or anything but I get sick of Hollywood and the media constantly bashing Christians and this doesn't help.
I totally agree with you Linkara. I can't decide whether the opening fight is extremely offensive or incredibly awesome.
two unrelated notes.
1) no christianity pun intended, but what the hell is this comic thinking? just what the holy crap is it thinking? what the crap? i cant even make coherent thoughts on that mess.
2) i have no idea why, but for some reason i /really/ like the stinger for this one. its different stylistically from all your other plotty stingers, and... i dont know, its just pretty awesome, story-structure-wise, to see that the threat has affected places outside of the linkara-centric area - broken the third wall, as it were. i know youre more about reviews than story, but that was still awesome.
I just ... Wow. Just ... Wow. That Jesus vs. Zeus fight was unbelievably offensive. I just ... Words fail.
And the Greek gods are totally weak, if this comic is to be believed. They fall into chasms all the time.
And why even have Glory and Avengelyn where clothes at all? They could be totally stark buck naked and only be showing about two square inches more of skin between them.
I'm very intrigued by the things disappearing. I'm assuming the Entity is about to rear its ugly head.
Jesus and the Greek Gods, isnt that like when the ancient gods show up in Marvel and DC comics? How can the Greek Gods coexist with Jesus and Norweign Gods, Egyptian Gods, etc. So every religion is right?
Shouldn't it technically have been "Immortal Kombat"? ;)
Mortal Kombat? It would be IMMORTAL KOMBAT!
Another awesome review, cant wait for ur following reviews in the weeks to come, also i should inform you for next week about the superman/looney tunes crossover, yes there really is a crossover featuring the two.
The only way I think the opening fight could have been more offensive is if David Koresh popped out of nowhere and hit Jesus with a chair.
I...I'm. Wow. Just wow, sweetcakes. I can't believe what I just saw.
Like you I'm a bit torn about the opening (it's awesome yet offensive at the same time).
What I am not torn about is the costumes (and anatomy) of the heroines.
I know I should be used to Rob and his clan denigrating the female form, but they always manage to find something new to raise my blood pressure.
As a Game Master for a Mutants and Masterminds (the Superhero Tabletop role playing game), I realized early on that I would need to explain all the various god figures in the world. See, in the setting of Freedom City, there are the Greek figures of Taurus the minotaur, Daedalus the Immortal Inventor, Talos the Bronze Man, Hades, and Cerberus WITH STATS. That wouldn't have been so bad if it weren't for the fact that the same book included Siren and Baron Samedi who are Loa, the spirits of Voodoo, Egyptian reincarnation, city spirits that imply animism, super monks powered by Buddhism, Alien Astronaut progenitors, a man empowered by a ritual of Norse magic that went wrong, and not one, not two, but THREE strong contenders to maybe be the Judeo Christian devil. And it just gets worse from there with additional books as you add outright Norse and Egyptian gods, Eldrich Horrors, and spirits that embody concepts.
So how do I resolve this mess? Add a few more pantheons and say none of them created humanity, life, or the world, as far as they know. With the possible exception of Jehovah (who is never available)the other gods are certainly powerful in the extream, but they are not all powerful. Not even the ones that aren't stated out. In fact, in the core books, the only all powerful beings are 1) Quark, the Mister Myxlpix or however it's spelled, who is a 8 year old kid who gets bored and 2) Mr. Infamy, one of the contenders for the title of Stan, who cannot be harmed, but can only work his powers on those that accept a deal. Examples of these deals have in the cannon been giving a KKK member fire powers (the fire's white) and making a little orphan girl the White Witch and helping her kidnap Santa so that Christmas doesn't exist anymore so that everyone on Earth will have crappier lives. Yeah, Santa is real, and it turns out he's a living bastion of good itself on the world, and if he were destroyed evil would be closer to total triumph. However, only children can harm Santa. Yeah I know, 'my one weakness!' but come on, that seemed like a really good idea at the time.
Anyway, back to the God issue. My solution was that they are all there, but they mainly compete for mortal worship. Why? I decided that while they don't NEED worship to be powerful, it helps. And the more that believe, the more influence they have on the world. And I don't mean 'throw a lightning bolt' influence, I mean cultural trend influence, the morality of the world, natural disasters, the shifting of the continents, the fate of nations, that sort of thing.
so..instead of Jesus you called him Spanish Jesus...Fine by me
BIBLE FIGHT!!!!
This is why I dig the Norse pantheon.
Well that was absolutely ... ass-tastic. In all meanings of the world.
Also, ROFLMAO @ the clip after the credits. I can't seem to recall where those two characters originated though.
Maybe it's just because i'm an atheist, but i find the whole "Jésus against the greek pantheon" thing rather awesome. However, i can't understand how some people (religious as they may be) can take this kind of material serious.. it's obviously cheap and the creators had no idea what they were writing about.
Anyway, i'll go out on a limp here and say that i'm not the only one who would enjoy seeing Chuck Jèsus kicking some divine behind around the globe, just for the pure ridiculousness of it!
MAN that comic was a piece of crap!
I forget if this was mentioned or not in an earlier video, but if those two protagonists are wearing metal thongs, wouldn't the thongs cut their skin?
A) Amazing timing, with Easter being yesterday, and MK coming out last week.
B) As a Christian, I don't want religion to be an important/major part in my comics. I read them to see heroes kicking ass and taking names, and sometimes to get a cool story to go with it. Not this.
C) Fight!
I swear, I remember something in my copy of the New Jerusalem Bible that mentioned Jesus making a scourge to chase money changers out of either a temple or a market place location near a temple. I'll have to see if my dad still has that thing somewhere, or if it was lost in the move.
Jesus fighting the Greek(Roman) Pantheon, boring. Jesus fighting Kratos, now that would be awesome to see.
Am I the only one who thinks that he should have yelled "IMMORTAL KOMBAT!" like in Mortal Kombat: Annihilation. Than again I understand that he didn't see that movie being that it sucked. I do like the idea of all the gods and such fighting for the hell of it.
Sonic comics rule :)
Ah man. What a showdown! I wonder if anyone considered this idea in ancient times, especially when the Romans were persecuting Christians (I know it was the Greek gods in the comic, but bear with me). I think the proposed fight from Venture Bros. of Lizzie Borden vs. Anne Frank would have made for something a lot more interesting though. Thank God, or Zeus, that issue two never made print
P.S. More like IMmortal Kombat, amirite?
Nice foreshadowing of your and probably TGWTG review of Warrior #4 guess Spoony's taking the week of to gear himself up for that and to recover from Beastmaster #2 can't wait for next weeks review.
Well, since you didn't make a joke regarding the passage in the closet, I will.
"Remember to turn left at the coats or you'll wind up in Narnia."
I'm pretty sure Alan Moore conceived Glory, he definitely did the first issue anyway, I think Melinada Gebbie did the art.In some ways she was kind of like a quasi-proto-Promethea. He had nothing to do with this though obviously.
I'm following along since I have the comic which, oddly enough, was given to my church along with thousands of other to sell so the church could make a little money. I was told to get rid of this one (for obvious reasons) so I took it home. Its all laughably bad, the story is asinine, and the artwork consists of mostly scantily-clad women arguing about the past. In other words: its the mid-90s, what do you expect?
Its the Goddesy Drining game where you take a shot at every but, historical and religous error :3
Here's a cover you NEED to see!
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh60/Arkakoira/406705-20286-121060-4-glory--avengelyne_super.jpg
Look at Avengelyne on the left. She's too skinny. She practically has no insides! Its the epitome of Liefeld's artwork (if you can call it art).
You better get on it, Linkara, I think The Nothing has invaded Minnesota...just make sure you're not reading a book with an Auryn on it there.
For some reason "gods of various pantheons fighting one another" is just typical in the comic world where you can have Thor and Hercules going at one another once or twice at Marvel aside from your Wonder Woman comment...so having Jesus fight Greek Gods may have just been another means of doing so with a more relevant religion that is still being worshipped...though I probably think there are still some Pagans who worship the Greek Gods somewhere I suppose so this would be offensive to them too. Then again, I think both would go up against the insanity of...well, whatever the Ultimate Warrior believes in.
okay... What the hell was that at the end?
Your serendipitous timing for comic reviews continues, Linkara (for better or worse): Rob Liefeld just announced today on CBR that he's reviving Avengelyne:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32019
Although the art looks somewhat more interesting, I can't imagine the comic will be overall all that much better.
Hello Glory's butt.
Seriously Link, a chick who spouts Bible verses as she kicks butt? Does Willie Aames know about her?
Great review Linkara, I understand Avengelyne and Glory are supposed to be "sexy" but their costumes are just terrible and ridiculous even by comic book standards.
Ooooh! I'm super-interested in whatever storyline you're coming up with now — it sounds cool as hell and epic. Is it related to the Vyce storyline at all?
WOW. I'm a Chrisitan too and while a part of me was offended, I can't help but laugh at how stupid this is from every angle.
Great review Linkara :)
Wouldn't it be IMmortal Kombat?
Just sayin'.
I must admit that, after what the scans promised, Godyseey is quite a letdown. And I'm also a bit let down by the fact that there wasn't more.
Glory had a few elements in common with Wonder Woman, but she became more of an outright Wonder Woman expy under Alan Moore's pen.
Yeah, I'm thinking even Image realised how offensive this comic was and decided to pull the plug on it. Now I would say that it could have been because it flat out sucked, but hey, when has that ever stopped them before?
Also, nice use of the Mortal Kombat theme, though I don't know if it so much saved what we were seeing at the time...
wow, knowing your view on this, it's probably not good to tell you that Im working on a novel in which all of the major deities: Norse, Shinto, Greek, Egyptian, and to a lesser extent Christianity, are tricked into a war against a race of human immortals by the archangel Michael in an attempt to have the gods take control of the human race... work in progress.
Also, (greek myth buff here, sorry) IT'S HERACLES DAMN IT!! HERA-CLES. Hercules is the Roman pronunciation, Liefeld, you plagiarizing hack. GAAH.
Great review. Bad Comic that completely screws with the teachings of Christ and makes the Greek Gods into assholes... even more then they already were.
That is actually something I have always laughed at when reading Wonder Woman. We have the kindest, most loving and thoughtful super heroine born into a race of formally sexist warrior woman who made to represent the Greek goddesses, most of whom were cruel, vindictive, incestuous, and unfaithful, and be by the afore mentioned goddesses better than humanity. Just saying, bit hypocritical.
So was the part at the end a part of the story line or is it a reference to something?
Linkara, I hate to be point out a pariable, but remember that before Jesus was crucified, he went to a synagouge (I can't spell sorry) where people were holding a market inside it, Jesus was so mad at this he pushed a few tables over, made a bull whip, and booted everyone out of it shouting "you will not peddle anything in my father's house". Now that being said, I would point out that this was a one time occurance and only happened because it was a sacrilegious thing to do in a church, in his father house. So in the long run I agree that Jesus was very much a pacifist, but he did have an act of agression, just once though, and for specific reason. That all being said, awesome review, and I agree with what you said.
Oh, love those little references, especially at the end.
And while, being a Roman Catholic, I am offended by this, I can't help but think how kick ass Jesus, the Christian Martial Artist, would be as a character.
I'm not sure I understand the post-credits scene. Are you listening to the radio in that scene? Who's the one calling in? What is that book you're reading?
wow. i am surprised that this wasn't a Deadliest Warrior episode.
The fight between the Greek Gods and Jesus isn't that far off actually. In a chapter of the Book of Revelation, there's a chapter called "Decent Christi" where Jesus goes to Hades and peaches to the dead souls there. He even throw the actual Hades into his own lake of fire.
Not sure how real any of that is, but there is SOME truth or logic of having Jesus Christ fight the Greek Gods.
Even with all the crap in this comic, I kinda liked it, and I'm going to look for it now. God War too.
Wow, I can't believe the whole reason for anyone wanting to review this thing only takes up the first third of the damn book. What a rip. I bet they did this only so the preview pages would attract readers when they saw them online.
Anyway, while it's a little bit offensive to me seeing Jesus fight Zeus at the very least both me and Linkara can react maturely to this sort of thing unlike other people in another certain religion that I won't name because we all know what I'm talking about.
Great review dude, but short. I guess you had to make it quick cause of othe robligations eh?
Just adding as a history nerd, usually the Romans would tie them on rather than nail them on, plus the nails are the wrong type for that era.
Plus great review Lewis
As a Christian, the idea of Jesus fist-fighting other pantheons sounds like it could be really awesome in the context of an intentionally-over-the-top parody.
As a graphic designer, the typography in the first of the two ending letters hurts my soul.
It’s a pity we never saw a second issue. I was hoping for Jésus to have a martial-arts fight with Pontius Pilate on the rooftops of ancient Jerusalem.
WOW, dear Jesus (pun intended)...
"Jesus (pronounced "hey-zeus") the Martial Artist" sounds like a great camp Z-film for the Cinema Snob or Phelous to review.
If you're a polytheist, this comic isn't less offensive. (My own pantheon was unharmed in the making of this thing, but my patron deity has been featured in a series of badly written, mary sue riddled pornographic novels, so I know how you feel.) I firmly believe in free speech, but writers should at least understand that these are not just characters long in the public domain to some people. I'm not even sure they meant to offend- more like they just didn't have a clue.
All that said, who the hell thinks metal thongs are a good idea?
Almost worse than that thought is that they tried to use "thee" and "thou" without knowing how to do it properly AUGH. >.<
I say if they're gonna go the blasphemy route, why not go all in? Have a sumo Buddha fight a 'roid raging Shiva, and a totally naked Amaterasu ripping off Ra's head.
Oh crap, the Borg have teamed up with Silent Hill and are invading Minnesota. Run while you still can!!!
(or maybe not but that would be so cool)
Oh, there is gonna be some AWESOME trolling in the comments.
Personally, this reminds me of a steroid-enhanced version of this guest pastor we had at school one time why tried to convince all of us cool young cats that Jesus was super-awesome and, like, totally wicked-cool, man. The poor chap was met with stony silence for the whole forty-five minutes.
AUGH THE THEES AND THOUS AND YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG MY POOR GRAMMAR-SENSITIVE BRAIN! Stupid comic!
More like Immortal Combat! =P
Don't be surprised if you end up catching a lot of crap for taking offense because of your Christian faith. I've got no problem with it, but this is the Internet. Just sayin'.
Also, the accent should have been on the "u," since that's the emphasized syllable.
Wow... Gotta say Linkara, that is the first cover you've featured that bothered me to the point of cringing uncontrollably.
I find it a funny coincidence that last week the new Mortal Kombat released and that Kratos from God of War, a game centered around Greek Mythology, is playable in the PS3 version and here we are a week later and you're making Mortal Kombat jokes in a review about a comic book featuring Gods from Greek Mythology. That or I need to seriously take a break from that game.
I could go on about how offended I am as a Catholic behind this whole concept but really, should I expect no less from Liefeld?
I couldn't finish this, so my only comment is that I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Vamp-ur-ella. Ur as in Urkel. Like Cinderella but with Vamp instead of Cind.
That's just the way I always pronounced it.
Wow, just, wow. As a Christian and owner of a Jesus Manga and the Bible Manga, I have to say that this is very bizarre. I am not really offended as much as I am weirded out by the concept. But if you want an even more bizarre read then take a look at Jesus and the Eight-fold Path. Author Lavie Tidhar takes the story of Jesus' birth and replaces the wise men with the characters from Journey to the West. Here is the link.
You know, I watched the video three times, and I still have a hard time believing that this thing could ever exist. How is it that nobody involved in this didn't think this would be a bad idea? On top of being just a moronic concept, it's also incredibly offensive to Christians. Hell, I'm not even a Christian and I found myself seething in rage at this concept.
On a side note, I loved the stinger at the end, especially with the reference to Doug's "GNN - Interviews the Joker" sketch.
Great review, Linkara. I can't wait to see next week's review.
Sorry dude, every time I hear the classic Mortal Kombat music my mind goes back to Sybok vs Kirk. Damn SFDebris reviews... XD
Is it just me, or are comics REAAAAAAALLLY bad at handling religion? Seriously, I can't think of any comics outside of maybe Japan who pulled off religion in comic books.
Also, Kung Fu Action Jesus. XD
Wait, what just happened?
You know, I always thought that strife's cape was held up by the spikes on his costume.
The comic needed more God Of War-esque killing to make it more entertaining. Oh wait... God Of War wouldn't be out until 2005. Okay, then it needed some Percy Jackson & The Olympians-like drama. Oh wait... the first book wouldn't be out on the same year. ...Huh... guess Image was a little early and highly inexperienced when it came to distributing works relating to Greek mythology.
First, as always, most entertaining :)
Second, and this is just an out-there thought... Why isn't there a Kung-Fu Jesus/ Guns n' Moses comic? They could use their awesome fighting skills and the power of Rock to bring an end to the evil reign of Crazy Steve.
Why yes, I am a bit sleep deprived. Why do you ask?
Seriously, fun to watch as always. Keep up the good work. . . and the new plot ;)
[Seriously, when will people learn that it's a bad idea to talk about Candle Ja. . .
The obvious aside, I wonder why Jesus doesn't talk anything. He was more likely to talk than to whip ass with kung fu. One might thing the creators didn't want the sacrilege of putting words in the mouth of an important religious figure but...I don't think they where worried about sacrilege.
Also, in before snarky remarks about the possibility of nails on the hand vs the possibility of God existing.
Lewis,
First comment, but I've watched and enjoyed all your videos.
I'm guessing you didn't study a lot of ancient history? The Eastern Roman Empire (which included Judea) spoke Greek for centuries after the death of Jesus. People there would have referred to "Zeus" rather than Jove or Jupiter right up to the point at which Christianity bloodily suppressed the pagans, just before the Muslims bloodily suppressed Christianity. It wouldn't have occurred to either the Greeks or Romans to think that Zeus' reign was over because the Romans called him by another name in any case. They weren't idiots.
Zeus and the other Olympians are still worshipped, by the way. Christianity didn't quite manage to exterminate paganism.
As for your "haysoos" crack--you do realize that your Messiah's name was "Yeshu" or "Yeshua", right? "Jesus" was invented by the Gospel writers, who were writing in Greek and wanted their savior's name to sound right in that language, which means ending in "-us". "Haysoos" is actually closer to what's in the Gospels (Greek "ee ay soos") than "jee zuss". Yeah, Yeshu wasn't much of a hand-to-hand fighter, except when he picked up a whip and beat up currency exchange clerks ... ?
It's also weird to me that you assume that since the "Jehovah" of this book shares one of your god's names, he must be omnipotent just like your god. In the comic book world there is no reason he couldn't be just another god who got very egotistical. The comic doesn't have to respect your particular Christian beliefs.
My nature as a nerd and Catholic were conflicting as well. Sadly I lost my sanity for a brief moment at the fight scene. Funny thing is that in one video, James Rolfe jokingly said that he would make a Mortal Kombat spin off game. He also said it would be called "Immortal Kombat" and have gods from different religions as the characters.
Also, by chance was part of your inspiration for "The Entity" the "Nothing" from The Neverending Story.
Resisting... the... urge.. to... make... Glory... hole... pun...
OH GOD (pun intended)
good job lewis on the The THEOLOGY, it made me laught so hard
I know this has nothing to do with the comic, but I feel this needs to be said:
R.I.P. Elizabeth Sladen
The Comic: Yeah, I can see why this one would be... problematic... on so many levels. The fact that virtually nothing happens in it doesn't help either.
Your Arc: ... Oh boy...
Fiery Little One
This story sounded like it could be awesome. The art inside looks pretty good, well the dream sequence of Jesus vs the Olympians does anyway.
Looking for answers in the black book of the little girl while the radio talks about a "piece of the world is missing"? Nice foreshadowing.
Wow, haven't even watched the video yet. I just glanced at the title and totally thought it said something else...
Well, I have to give this comic a little credit, as Jehovah isn't treated as a bad guy here, and the Greek gods are shown as the total ass-hats they are.
That said, this comic hurts me as a Christian. To put the Jesus fight thing in perspective, imagine if Ghandi spontaneously turned into a crazed gun-toting psycho. it might be funny for sheer ridiculousness, but it's still incredibly offensive.
And I would love to see the confrontation between God and Zeus.
Zeus: "And now, Hoak Hogan, I shall take my place as ruler of all the Gods!"
God: "Yeeeaaahh, no."
Zeus gets sent to hell
Lucifer: "Yeah, the whole rebelling against God thing tends to not turn out well, huh?"
IDK, maybe it's just because I'm an atheist, but I don't find the idea of Jesus fighting that offensive. I mean, do his teachings apply to other gods? I thought they were just for mankind. Look at Paradise Lost (I know it's a poem and not official religious text, but supposedly the guy was having religious visions while writing it, as if God was speaking through him.... and it's just a really cool epic poem so I think it counts lol) - Jesus actually leads the charge against Lucifer. He's on a chariot hurling lightning bolts at him, driving his forces into Hell. Personally, I like to think that if Christianity is real, Jesus would step in to kick ass if another malevolent god tried to harm humanity.
But if I'm going to believe in anything, I'm going with Norse. As Nick Fury said, "My God has a hammer."
IDK, maybe it's just because I'm an atheist, but I don't find the idea of Jesus fighting that offensive. I mean, do his teachings apply to other gods? I thought they were just for mankind. Look at Paradise Lost (I know it's a poem and not official religious text, but supposedly the guy was having religious visions while writing it, as if God was speaking through him.... and it's just a really cool epic poem so I think it counts lol) - Jesus actually leads the charge against Lucifer. He's on a chariot hurling lightning bolts at him, driving his forces into Hell. Personally, I like to think that if Christianity is real, Jesus would step in to kick ass if another malevolent god tried to harm humanity.
But if I'm going to believe in anything, I'm going with Norse. As Nick Fury said, "My God has a hammer."
Where is Kratos when you need him?
Really? No GOW jokes?
Only one issue? Why am I not surprised?
Great review, I was a little surprised you didn't make Life of Brian jokes though.
Awesome as usual. Man you could have totally thrown in a birdemic joke in the end bit there. "Such as Seals" lol. Great job as usual! Keep up the good work.
Hey, wouldn't this technicaly be "Im"mortal Kombat!?
Wow, great review! Never heard of this comic or any of the characters involved outside the ovious! But, I had been interested in seeing this review since I saw the title card art on DA!
One of my pet peves is when writers try to sound more "epic" by using thee and thou without using them properly. A quick reference:
Thou is a subjective pronoun. It is is used when the person is the subject of the sentence. Use it in the same way you use I, she, or he.
Thee is an objective pronoun. It is used when someone or something else is the subject of the sentence. Use it in the same way you would use me, him, or her.
Come on Zeus. I know thou didst not learn English as thy native language, but thou should have spent more time on the basics before building thy vocabulary to the point where thou knowest words like "sermount".
About those missing buildings, have they checked the moon? ;)
Anyway, yeah. The comic. For me, the only way this may have worked was if they went the route of the Everworld series. However, it didn't.
Argh, Zeus's grammar pains me. I'm pretty sure that's not the right way to use 'thee' and thou.'
Long time viewer, first time commenter. Just a couple of little things.
Awesome + offensive = Awefensive!
Mortal combat? Don't you mean IMmortal? (ugh, nevermind, that's stupid)
And you should have ended by playing back something you said earlier that perfectly describes this comic. "DUUUUUUUUUH"
I kind of dig this comic, if only for seeing Jesus use Kung Fu moves. As to some of the inconsistencies from christian mythology, I presume they ignored the various Omni's used to describe the Christian God as they get confusing and ruin Narrative. As to Jesus leaping towards violence, well I can't remember any good quotes like on where the bible states he rides a warhorse for the second coming. I also remember a event where Jesus loses his temper seeing people trading in his temple. So he freaks out flipping tables and I think he grabs a whip to whip at people. The God of love apparently has not that much restraint from assault and property damage.
You have to appreciate the fact that this makes it is one, coun't 'em, ONE sort of Easter-themed episode on TGWTG, as far as I can tell.
Still, it makes our hero a feminist, christian, nerdy critic. With a hat. It might not seem like that many adjectives yet, but they're piling up.
tsss...first.
And...Linkara, do you come from the bible belt? What makes you itchy about blasphemy?tss...
Heard of Preacher u_u? Yeah, good luck ranting about that one. You won't have people agreeing with u
That...was almost as horrifying as the Lady Gaga comic. The comic itself, of course, the review was great. So many "WTH" moments I must have sounded like that one clip of Ryan O'Neil: "Oh man. Oh God. Oh man. Oh God."
That's not supposed to be how Jesus goes to war. Jesus goes to war atop a white charger with a sword clutched between his teeth, killing off entire armies by speaking the word of God.
That said... Those bikini's are metal right? And they run, and jump and generally do actiony stuff in them, yeah? And it looks like it's super thin, and pressed tight against their skin...
So how is it that those bikini's aren't just slicing into to their flesh? There would be blood running all down their thighs and and abdomen. Maybe their skin is actually a more hardy material than the metal. But that just asks the question, Why do they need armor at all then?
JEEPERS.
I'm sure somebody, somewhere, thought this was the most awesome, 'edgy' comic idea ever. Sometimes I despair.
Oh well. IMMORTAL KOMBAT!
Is it my imagination, or does Crystal Dragon Jesus (Christian martial artist) have a lot in common with Crazy Steve? (As in, 'there is no way of associating this character with the character they are supposed to represent')
Just me then.
As a pagan, this isn't so much offensive as it is kind of funny, since I kind of thought most of the Greek pantheon were jerks anyway. Except for, like, Hestia.
Also, fun fact: In Greek mythology there actually were a whole bunch of chairs for the gods to sit in. Must have been budget cuts. That explains why they couldn't afford entire costumes for their servants, anyway.
And half-demon amazon wearing a metal bikini? Did they creators send in the ideas that they had for comics in fifth grade?
Another great review, the dream sequence is just dumb. I'm not sure whose idea it was, but the excuse to see Jesus beat up the Greek Pantheon is not good enough. Looks like the Entity is making its move. Two more reviews before we reach Ultimatum, where I believe the Entity will either attack or appear before Linkara? Wait, Gotham City is part of the AT4W-verse? Man, better be careful Linkara, Crazy Steve might "draft" you into his war!
I'm gonna start by saying that i agree the comic was bad, and i liked your review, found it funny ect.
however, i find that the idea of any two dietys/religous factions fighting each other is comploetely and utterlly awsome, including jesus vs the great gods. if i've got a correct read on your personality, i think you're a great believer in comics are art. however, if we except that as true (btw i'm not saying it isn't) one thing has to be remembered about any, and indeed all forms of art. nothing, and i mean NOTHING, is sacred. ever. as soon as art stops trying to push boundries, stops being contriversial, then humanity loses something, especially if it stops through fear of being offensive (for the record, there's plenty of good, uncontriversial, art as well, but that's beside the point). the fact that the comic excuted the idea poorly, through a meh-shit story after the 'dream scene', is irrelevent, the idea itself is a perfectly sound one, and if there were better writers (who never got near the bane of life that is rob liefeld) i think that starting with this idea, you could take it tons of directions, and have it be a great comic. look at literature, for one example, his dark materials by phillip pullman is a brilliant work of fiction.
there are more example in all sorts of artforms (including comedy), but i fear i've rambelled long enough. it's my opinion, have fun with it.
Oh great, now you brought Doug into your stupid storyline nonsense.
Can't you just review comics? It's what we come here for.
Well, according to some oldd texts, Jesus did in fact kill several people back when he was a child
Also there's the whole thing with assaulting people with a whip
I thought the 1st part was awesome and stupid at the same time. I think it's good that that's the only issue.
well, in a world with multiple gods, I believe the whole "omnipotence" thing is just a boast
If it's a fight between deities, shouldn't it be "Immortal Combat!"?
Oh, so you're not only a bad reviewer and have horrible taste in women, you are also a religious freak ? Will there be an end to this ?!
Oh, but anyway, happy jewish zombie day !
Is it irony that Lewis plays the Mortal Kombat theme like three times during a comic about immortal gods fighting? Or just stupidity?
Jesus fighting Greek gods makes perfect sense!
Even under different names, they were still the ones worshipped by Romans
Epic lol's for this video, using the Mortal Combat theme song was Genius. Blasphemy has never been ludicrously funny then during this roasting critique.
Stupid, ugly, and offensive. That's all that can really be said about this comic.
nice work as always, but that stinger was kinda weird
Oh....that hurt.
I confess. I am not a religious person at all, in fact there are the three things I never discuss, religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin. I respect everyone involved in the religion and I can easily see how people would be very offended by this. Completely ignoring the value's Christ stood and died for to make a crappy comic.
Way to keep it real image.
It's really these comics that do my brain in. They are half assed attempts to get the masses reading "The adventure's of two women's asses!" - Hell at least that title is honest...
Still, in retrospect though it nice to know that Image have actually produced some worthwhile material in the recent years. And I thank you greatly for pointing my in the direction of Invincible. But I am digressing again.
I think I might check out those two Wonderwoman comcis, my self is lacking in Miss Prince. Great episode, and an interesting stinger...What is happening? Whole buildings being removed from Minnesota? *dramatic cords* We find out soon!
?????? has ron Finally lost his perception of reality?(not to say that he had one to begin with).
i can not think or find the words to Describe this THING,see this is not a comic,it is a THING that is on SO MANY LEVELS Offensive! that the only words that CAN come out off the top of my head is: W O W just simple W O W.
Well, the concept that YHWH is literally all powerful is probably one that the Olympians probably don't by into for various reasons.
Incidentally, depending on the reading and translation, YHWH comes across as distinctly non-omni. There's the infamous "Chariots of Iron" thing, but also instances such as needing to readjust to better view what was happening at Babel, and the choice of flood to cleanse the world instead of simply 'ping'ing it so. Many of these things would definitely be seen as evidence of weakness by the Olympians. Not that they're much more in character than Jesus Norris.
Interesting Captcha- "brissed"
I am an atheist and that opening sequence still makes me go 'eech' which is a sound I've never made before. What the crap is Rob on?
Just wanted to mention that the audio on the download of Blip's FLV file is entirely screwed up. The audio works fine on the WMV file you have up so you may need to replace or fix it.
Other then that was a interesting review.
You know Linkara, there was a time where people believed the Greek gods were real and it was a real religion and not mythology. I find it kinda messed up that you and the writer devolved Zeus and his children into just a bunch of characters with super powers while Jesus is the only "true" deity. I'm not trying to be rude by saying any of this but it's just kinda uncomfortable how the Greek gods are represented here. That's it.
Awe dude Lou (can i call you Lou? or maybe you'd prefer Link?) This episode was hilarious and just in time for easter.
I guess this comic suppotrs James Rolfe's idea of "Immortal Kombat" with Gods fighting eachother.
Looking forward to the next episode and to the first flight of Comicron One (i thought you didn't want the name to reference AT4W or anything like that?)
ttobba
Wow. Just... wow. How to piss off Christians and worshippers of the Greek pantheon in just a couple of pages. Hell, I'm a Satanist and even I found that offensive.
... At the end there, after the credits... What the...?
Huh, slow time for comments it seems. I'd partake in the typical screaming of 'FIRST', but it's pointless in the first place, and much more so when noone seems to be trying anyway.
Good review, though there's something you either missed, or just didn't think it was worth bothering to bring up. But if Zeus is pissed that humanity has 'outgrown the need for gods' (despite more than half the planet being religious), and grew jealous of Jehovah/God/Whatever title He goes by these days, then why the heck did it take him so long to finally decide to wage this war? What makes a little under two thousand years later the time to strike? Was that how long it took for old thunder pants to realise that a certain religion was now bigger than the human population of the planet pre-1900?
WOW....that was a BAD comic. I actually stumbled upon the images of Jesus (or Hey Zeus! the master of Kung Fu) a few months ago and I'm still amazed and somewhat offended. Hilarious review.
*IMMORTAL KOMBAT!!!*
sorry, I had to ;)
Wow this comic is ....... wow. As a Christian and nerd myself .... you pretty much said it. However, the thing that really offended me was that Zeus doesn't know his old English pronouns:
"Can thee surmount true power?" ... Canst thou ...
"Does thee have the courage?" ... Dost thou ...
"Than thee who covets man ..." THOU GOD DAMM IT!!! =___= 'Thee' is the dative not the nominative form!!!!
... only a Classicist right? ;)
Good Review. I'm interested to see what purpose Doug's cameo at the end will have.
As not a Christian I have to say I find the opening sequence not as much offensive as silly and hammy. It's juvenile, yeah, but it's also so stupid it's awesome as long as you don't take it seriously.
I keep wanting to get a better look at the back of the comic, but Linkara never goes into detail about it. Was it a advertisement for the sequel that didn't happen?
So Jesus, the same Jesus who allowed himself to be crucified, the same Jesus who got along with a tax man, the same Jesus who decided to send the 'Legion' demon into some animals rather than smite them will apparently attack Roman gods for laughing at him.
And hold on. These people admit that Zeus exists. Yet in the same breath the mother (whose name I don't care about) said there was a one true god Jehovah. How exactly would that be the 'one true god' if there are multiple gods?
Also it makes no sense whatsoever for Zeus to be angry at Jehovah. At the time estimated time of Jesus' crucifixion Judaism was just a small religion practiced by those overzealous Jews, hardly something to threaten the old order.
On another note, I love how a comic showing gods worshiped by the Romans managed to keep the Greek name for Zeus but managed to get the Roman name for 'Herakles'.
Actually, I wasn't offended by the idea of Jesus fighting Greek gods. The idea was just too hilarious.
As an atheist and a drunk that opening sequence was just offensive. I do have quite a few quibbles with Christianity, but that wasn't even close to Jesus' message.
Oh, and I'd have thought you'd have gone for Bwian for the name of the fake Jesus.
Interesting thing you reviewed there, surely, but I shudder at the thought of actually reading it, not to mention someone must have paid for it once. BTW, I know, with easter these past days many did some family time and stuff, but how come after 2 days, there are not even one comment?
Another great ending can't wait to see where this heads maybe something with Spoony or Maybe Doctor Insano
More like immortal combat, amirite?
Wow, this comic may be among the most offensive things I've ever seen. Also a Christian, I find the portrayal of Jesus and his attitude towards the Greek gods to be just wrong.
Also, just for a moment, I need to point out one GLARING problem that the editors seem to have missed - HERCULES WASN'T A GOD. He was a demigod, yes, but not a god. And more importantly, if you're going by the Greek pantheon, his name should be Heracles. Hercules is, ironically, his Roman name. EPIC FAIL.
That ending bit is incredibly tantalizing, Lewis. I'm left wondering if it's the next storyline bit or something related to the 3rd anniversary. Whatever you have planned, I can't wait to see what it is!
Yeah I just wanted to say shouldn't it have been called Immortal Combat? Great review always enjoy watching them.
I am shocked that you didn't read the letters section of the comic out loud.
It is, in a word, hilarious. If you ever wanted a front row seat to the dirty nature of comic industry politics and needed a laugh.
As a Neo-Pagan myself, this comic made me feel a bit...uncomfortable.
I just get a bad feeling in my gut when my or anyone else's beliefs are exploited for....well, crap like this.
"I also remember a event where Jesus loses his temper seeing people trading in his temple. So he freaks out flipping tables and I think he grabs a whip to whip at people."
....which actually he was in the right to do. Now it's been a few years (12 to be precise) since I stepped into a church, but I do remember my theology studies: The guys selling crap in the temple were violating the Law of Moses: 1. by doing commercial transactions in the temple itself (which was a serious offense on it's own) and 2. by using the grounds to hustle and harass poor people into buying stuff (even though Mosaic law clearly states that you should never harass widows, orphans and the poor and provides harsh punishments for those who do ). So from a Jewish standpoint all JC did was scare off a bunch of hustlers and thugs who were desecrating a sanctuary and molesting innocent people.
Even then he didn't harm any of them, he just scared them off.
So yeah, this thing got really, really uncomfortable. So hats off to you for still making it funny, Linkara!
I'm going to subvert all the "As a [non-Christian] I found this funny/awesome/etc instead" comments by saying, as a non-Christian... I found this kind of facepalmingly offensive. Just because I'm not a Christian doesn't mean I can't be offended by seeing someone like Jesus be completely insulted like this. Seeing the comic take something like Jesus Christ, and then do something like THIS with his image?
This isn't even funny on the grounds of parody. It's not something like "Buddy Christ" where they took Jesus's image and used it for societal commentary. It's not even deserving of being called parody. It's deserving of being called "a pile of shit."
And godddddd... every time I see Rob Liefield's "art" I die a little inside.
So basically this was an unofficial Ultimate Warrior comic?
Sure sounds like one.
*sees schedule*
Oh no....THERE IS ANOTHER ONE?!
Damn you, Jim Hellwig!
Oh crap, the Entity is eating parts of Minnesota?! Wait...I'm in Minnesota!
What am I go---
*connection lost*
As people have already pointed out, the Olympian gods did each have their own throne in Olympus. But I guess the artist thought it would be sexier if they were all lounging around in lingerie instead. *rolls eyes*
Why on earth are the Greek gods talking in Elizabethan English? Is that supposed to make them sound more ancient and refined or something? And is "Lady Demeter" the equivalent of the goddess Demeter? Is Glory supposed to be Persephone's long-lost sister?
Yes, Hercules is the Roman name. Heracles or Herakles ("Hera's glory") is the Greek name. If you're going to keep all of the Greek names, be consistent, writers!
The utter stupidity of the women's costumes is mind-boggling. Why on earth are their arms and shoulders more covered up than the rest of their bodies? Sure, maybe it's easier to ogle them when they're practically naked, but the amount of skin exposure sure as heck isn't practical in battle (nor is it practical for everyday life - how is it that nobody laughs at them or stares at them strangely for having such ludicrous outfits?).
The only male heroes that I can think of whose costumes were just as revealing and ridiculous as these are the Spartans from "300." But at least they weren't wearing thongs and the camera didn't focus on their rears half the time.
You cannot tell me that these costumes aren't sexist and exploitative and that the women are just wearing them because they're "confident in their bodies," or other nonsense like that, when you specifically make it a point to objectify these women by providing unnecessary shots of their posteriors and deliberately distorting their anatomy just to make them look like Barbie dolls.
Hey Linkara how about Marvel's Chaos war it is another great story about different pantheons fighting each other and I've enjoyed it so far so what are your thoughts
Huh... a lot of people have made "Immortal Kombat!" jokes.
Also, I'm a little worried that when we finally see what the Entity looks like, it's going to be either A) Poorly animated, B) Bad CGI, or C) a stupid looking rubber suit. Just saying.
Ironic yet fitting that it was just Easter...
Yeah, speaking as a Christian, Jesus fighting the Greek gods is both offensive and yet awesome. My main problem is that he pulled himself off the cross to do it. Many of the humans present mocked and dared him to save himself if he was so powerful, but he didn't, because his point of being up there wasn't to show off how powerful he was. The idea of the Greek gods driving him to that point-- it's just silly.
Blah, blah, blah. I could probably rant on and on about this one. Awesome review as usual, Linkara :)
Wow that was bad. The comic was just full of WTFness, and as a Christian myself I found it very very weird and kind of blasphemous. Albeit awesomely blasphemous.
As for the stinger-Someone's been watching their Doctor Who. ^_~ I look forward to additional developments.
A question to the man in the hat.
Just how many "story" episodes are you going to do (ones involving this story arc of yours, i mean)?
"Just how many "story" episodes are you going to do (ones involving this story arc of yours, i mean)?"
Assuming you're referring to the Entity storyarc, can't say for certain. Sometimes inspiration strikes and I end up doing more than I originally plan.
For those of you you who keep bringing it up. There is a movie called "Immortal Combat" starring Sonny Chiba and Roddy Piper.
I know Immortals might percive time differently than Mortals but the idea that the Greek Gods are only NOW getting annoyed about the whole Jehovah thing? Constantine the Great Christianised the Roman Empire in the 300s, paving the way for the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox churches (Western Roman Empire & Eastern Roman Empire flavour).
I suppose we could insert Linkara's judgement on the Monitors in Countdown and apply that to the Greek Gods though. They spent 1600 years + saying "Should we do something?"... "We should do something!". :-p
Looking past the stupid of the comic... and good lord, I know that's not easy, no pun intended, if you got tired of the butt shots in THIS comic, NEVER read anything drawn by Frank Cho.
"if you got tired of the butt shots in THIS comic, NEVER read anything drawn by Frank Cho."
Yeah, never could wrap my head around Cho. He has good ideas but they seem to get lost in the stream of pin-up shots, talking monkeys (which would be fine if they did anything except snark about the silver age), and gratuitous ass shots (IMHO, of course).
Theological quibbles far, far aside...
... is Avengalyne's superpower the ability to rotate her torso like Stretch Armstrong's?
Shanya (#160): I'm pretty sure that's among her powers. Others include being able to place most of her internal organs in a Bag Of Holding and survive, and a magnetic field around her body that allows her to stick on bits of armour without any visible means of support.
My comment on Moore creating Glory was wrong. The issue 1 I have is actually a reboot of the character that Moore and Gebbie attempted but ended up quitting after 2 issues; probably due to Liefeld being a huge asshole.
A martial arts Jesus isn't that much of a stretch...
Haven't you people ever heard the term 'Judo-Christian'?
Le-Messor, on behalf of the internet I bestow upon you the title of "PUN-isher, champion of Puns" for this particular comments section.
LOL!
LOVED IT yet another amazing review. although I kinda share the opinion that the opening scene done with the right writers and artists could have been really epic. Sadly no Liz in this episode. Gotta say I really enjoy seeing you two together. You tend to play off each other well and you can really tell you enjoy what you do. sorry to have a fan boy moment. keep up the good work I can't wait for next weeks review.
By the way, Avengelyne is pronounced "avenge a line" with the emphasis on "venge". It's a pun on the real but uncommon name "Evangeline".
Jannet Jazz,
Thank you, and groan.
hey linkara i have a idea for a video how about the top 15 worst moments in spiderman since well spiderman has been going for a long time and im sure it has had its moments of stupidity anyway its just a idea
::Looks at cover:: Reminds me of this Mexican Maxim cover I saw on one of Oddee's "worst photoshops ever" articles: http://www.oddee.com/_media/imgs/articles/a222_p3.jpg
It's better than anything Jack Chick's ever written.
Um.
Wow.
I've seen images from this (specifically the "Jesus pulling himself from the cross" thing) and always assumed it was from some sort of parody or satire.
Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine it was supposed to be a serious story.
If you are interested in more crazy comics involving Christianity, check out 'Veil of Love' from Young Love #104, by clicking on my name! It has a Nam veteran trying to woo a nun!
J.A.P.
You've reminded me how cool the Mortal Kombat music actually was. So this was a worthwhile review on that alone.
"...which Christianity bloodily suppressed the pagans."
You mean right after the pagans bloodily suppressed the Christians for centuries (and would do so again and again everytime they gained power)? Make no mistake, Christian Emperors did the same thing (albeit on a smaller scale), but to pretend that the pagans weren't as dedicated to maintaining political power and were savagely violent (if not more so) about doing so is pretty blind of you (historically speaking).
Also, if the Christians were such universal jerks who were out to destroy all pagans, then how do you explain the fact that it was Christians and Muslims who preserved their work, were students of their greatest minds, who took their ideas and created applied science (indeed Modern Science as we know it today) and who worked side by side with them for centuries? The answer is simple: because they are not the caricature you create and history is far more complex than you have suggested.
I find it interesting that you chastised Linkara for "not having studied much ancient history", when your own knowledge seems to be lacking.
I suggest you read, "The Beginnings of Western Science" by David Lindberg and "God's Philosophers" by James Hannam
"There's the infamous "Chariots of Iron" thing, but also instances such as needing to readjust to better view what was happening at Babel, and the choice of flood to cleanse the world instead of simply 'ping'ing it so."
So they would be basing it on:
1. A historical account of the weakness of the hebrew forces against superior numbers and technology (you'll note that the passage was about the failing of the hebrew men not G-d).
2. A parable about human frailty.
3. A parable about standing up for your own convictions even when others are doing wrong.
Their judgement would be pretty flawed then (but then again, I wouldn't expect Greek Deities to study and understand the Torah).
@Siv Shu,
Um, I have. Read those and others.
It was the Muslims who preserved pagan knowledge after Christians largely exterminated it. Christians did come to appreciate it later during the Renaissance, of course. (By this time, the Faylasuf movement among Islam had died out and they were losing interest in the old Greek learning.)
Yes, there were anti-Christian movements, notably in the Roman Empire (which is where Christians mostly were at the time, of course). Outgrowth of the anti-Jewish hatreds that were already thriving by Jesus' time, and for the same reason: refusal to acknowledge the Emperor as a god. Making the Emperor head of the Christian church fixed that problem up nicely.
"Um, I have. Read those and others.
It was the Muslims who preserved pagan knowledge after Christians largely exterminated it. Christians did come to appreciate it later during the Renaissance, of course.....)"
If you have read those (or have any interaction with current medieval scholarship at all) than you'd know that the above statement is patently false.
http://armariummagnus.blogspot.com/2009/10/gods-philosophers-how-medieval-world.html
The Middle Ages saw Christian and Muslim scholars as the preservers of the work of pagan scholars, translating and distributing their work, and taking it farther, birthing Modern science as we know it, the university system and much of what we take for granted today. Your narrative has no basis in reality.
"...refusal to acknowledge the Emperor as a god. Making the Emperor head of the Christian church fixed that problem up nicely."
Of course. When you lack political power oppressing a group of people becomes difficult.
Unbelievable. This comic is still Liefeld-level of bad quality. I wonder how would the other parts of the Godyssey would turn out if they had been published.
Meanwhile, the Entity plot is starting to thicken . . .
Technically, this WOULD be consistent with Jesus' stance, at least as far as insulting religion goes. What's that about "God being jealous" and Jesus going postal on a temple-turned-market? Kicking the Greek gods' asses for insulting his sacrifice would totally be in character for him. And, honestly, how can Jesus kicking ass be offensive to anyone? Maybe you've yet to see Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter?
On that note, since this is a battle between gods, shouldn't it be called Immortal Kombat? Then again, Raiden's a god, and he's in Mortal Kombat, but then again, it's also stated that he takes mortal form while in the realms, so having HIM be killed makes more sense than to fully-ethereal beings...then again x3, the Greek gods have tons of myths about how they CAN be killed, so...I think I lost the plot, somewhere back.
"What's that about 'God being jealous' and Jesus going postal on a temple-turned-market?"
A. Hebrew is a complicated language. There are three very different words translated as 'jealous' in English: one meaning the sin of envy and the other two referring to zealous loyalty or commitment to someone or something. The words used to describe the Abrahamic God are the latter (usually used to describe his commitment and loyalty to the Isrealites and his frustration when they broke their vows with him).
B. Jesus was acting in accordance with Hebrew law: according to the text, the merchants were not only violating the jew's sacred space of the temple but were also attempting to make a profit on the poor by trying to cajole them into buying sacrificial animals and the like (the doves mentioned). So all he did was clear the grounds of hustlers. An act done for the sake of others.
Now in this comic, what brought him down from the cross? A personal insult. Zeus mocked humanity and then mocked him and the latter is what brought him down? Bear in mind, this is the same Jesus who told his followers to NOT answer a personal insult by escalating a confrontation or resorting to violence (hence his words about 'turning the other cheek'). So I can see why some people would be justifiably upset with the scenario.
Rob, rob, rob....when will you ever learn?
It's like he knows how much he sucks at drawing human anatomy and now it's just a contest to see just how bad he can yutz it up.
The spines alone alarm the hell out of me. Then you throw in the armor thongs, the weird feet, the ludicrous proportions and it's like he's creating a comic for the sole purpose of giving my human anatomy professor a rage induced aneurysm!
The shoulder pads! What is his fetish with weird shoulder pads!?
Envy and jealousy are complete opposites; the first has you lusting over something you don't have and being pissed off at the person who has it, the second has you pissed off at the one envying you and try to guard what you have at any length. So when they say "Do not worship false gods, for God is jealous", they're actually saying "God wants all the worship for himself and is pissed that you think His love is not enough for the heathens that build a Golden Calf to prostrate to".
As for the insults, I think you got it backwards; the Greek pantheon started by insulting him and his decision to sacrifice himself for humanity, THEN insulted humanity by implying that they were mere tools and playthings for the gods to dick around with, and that Jesus' sacrifice for them would be pointless, as a result. I'd liken it to the insult-fest in the Star Trek TOS episode "The Trouble with Tribbles", where Scotty holds Checkov back after the Klingons insults Kirk, but starts the fight himself when they insult the Enterprize; insulting one individual is one thing, since - as you say - one can ignore personal insults, and one person isn't indicative of the whole, but when you insult the whole itself, then you're not only making a personal attack, you're attacking anything associated with them. Insulting Kirk, for instance, wouldn't do much, since those who know Kirk know the insults are lies, and Kirk himself would brush them off as irrelevant, but insulting the Enterprise is insulting not only its captain, but its crew, and the whole of the Federation, given it's their flagship. Similarly, Jesus can blow off insults that his sacrifice is stupid, since he knows better, but saying the people he's sacrificing himself for are nothing but useless cosmic playthings not only insults the meaning of his sacrifice and humanity's potential, but insults God's plan for them and the reason for their creation. In that context, he WAS justified for ripping himself off the cross and kicking their asses.
And again, I need to remind you that the bible has God and his followers attack pagan gods and idols and their worshipers for far less provocation, so I don't see how "Jesus kicks the Greek Pantheon's collective ass for insulting his crucifixion" is all that insulting, especially given how petty and cruel the Greek pantheon really is.
Then again, this is the mythology buff in me talking, and I love seeing goofy crap like this happen in a theological context, so sue me for booking tickets for this fight.
A. The sin of Envy and one of the words for Jealousy (at least in Hebrew) are not opposites. Secondly, as I explained previously, the words used (Qinah, Qana, and Qanah) have wildly different meanings and contexts. The words used to describe the God of Abraham, contrary to what you've stated, speak of a deity who is "zealous in his loyalty" towards the people of Israel (hence his frustration when despite his overtures, they turn from him). So in that mindset, you do have part of the idea correct (God being frustrated that despite his love, the Hebrews turned to the calf).
B. Okay, let's go with your angle. Even if it was mocking humanity that brought him down from the cross, he's still coming down and engaging in violence due to an insult. Not a threat against them. Not a threat of violence. But merely a pack of jerks saying rude things and he responds with force. The very thing he told his followers not to do. So it's still a bad idea.
C. Less provocation? The Hebrews fought to defend themselves against predatory nations and tribes who came after them first (The Hittites, The Amalekites, The Philistines, etc). The Hebrews lacked the numbers, resources, or muscle to start wars with random pagans. Not to mention the fact that the Israelites were surrounded by pagan cultures, traded with pagan cultures, and in those campaigns where they had to defend themselves, their sole military allies were pagans. So they quickly learned to let all of that slide unless the bodies started hitting the floor. So no, whenever "God and his followers" went to war, it was because of an actual act of violence against them. Not badly drawn pillocks saying "nyah-nyah!".
The hits keep coming, folks:
"Rob Liefeld announced on his blog today that Avengelyne, a character published by his Maximum Press company back in the mid-1990s, will return in a monthly series later this summer from Image Comics.
The new series will be written by Liefeld and Mark Poulton (Koni Waves) and illustrated by Owen Gieni. Poulton previously wrote the character in an Avengelyne vs Koni Waves one-shot that Arcana published last year. Gieni has worked on several webcomics, including Sore Thumbs and Wicked Powered.
Avengelyne, an angel cast from Heaven who fought demons on Earth, appeared in several miniseries, one-shots, crossovers (including one with Glory, another Liefeld creation) and her own series from Maximum Press, and was later published by Avatar. "
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2011/03/avengelyne-returns-this-summer-from-image-comics/
(The artwork looks...different)
It's only a matter of time before Rob decides to re-do/re-launch "The Godyssey". Heaven help us.
The "sin" of Envy wasn't even invented until Christianity was long set up and the bible was being translated into English, so how exactly can you say that "one of the words Hebrew uses for jealousy matches envy"? Envy was specifically defined when it was turned into a sin, and it IS completely opposite to the traditional definition of jealousy.
Second, the way the insult was formed made it pretty clear that it wasn't going to STOP at an insult, and it implied (quite rightfully) that they had and would continue to mess around with humanity, regardless of Jesus' sacrifice. So in a way, yes, it WAS a threat, a depreciation of his sacrifice's worth and the worth of those he was sacrificing himself for, and a promise to make that sacrifice be in vain by messing with humanity. Again, insulting him ONLY could be mitigated, but insulting not only him but HUMANITY, and his Father in Heaven, is more of a traditional insult; it's an attack on everything they held dear. In my opinion, he had no real choice in the matter; either he shut them up right then and their, or their insults would turn into more than idle threats. By your logic, Jesus shouldn't have done ANYTHING to the temple-market, since it ultimately was an insult that wasn't supplemented by violence by the marketers, so his philosophy should've forced him to "turn the other cheek". Instead, he attacked them for the "insult" of selling and buying wares in His father's house. And what about the Gnostic apocrypha that has Jesus insult someone TO DEATH for accidentally bumping into him as a child? I'm sorry, but this is perfectly within the boundaries of Jesus' personality, from what I read of the bible.
Finally, which version of the bible are you reading? There's passages in the bible that say basically "These people are evil, as God decrees, and they should be killed, regardless of what they did to you". Yes, a lot of the violence was caused by the other groups attacking first, but there's still a ton of stories where God ORDERED his disciples to kill people without them provoking the attack. Hell, I remember stories from the Old Testament where entire pagan groups were ordered wiped out by God BECAUSE they were worshiping the wrong god. How can you explain that?
The Hebrews fought to defend themselves against predatory nations and tribes who came after them first
OK, anonymous one ... did you ever actually read the Bible? Where the Hebrews came out of nowhere (OK, in the story they came out of Egypt) and brutally invaded and conquered the future nation of Israel, killing or enslaving literally every single person who had lived there before? We're talking genocide here--the Hebrews under Moses and Joshua wiped out entire cities, killing every man, woman and child, except for virgin girls to be kept as sex slaves.
@SD
A. Wrongo. The sin of Envy actually was codified into the Torah and was understood by the Hebrews (and most ANE cultures) long, long before Christianity and definitely long before any of the Biblical texts were translated into English. Read any given introductory text on the Tanakh or or indeed anything on Ancient Near Eastern peoples (specifically "honor/shame" ideals) and you'd know that.
B. Wrong one three counts.
1. That is really stretching the bounds of what they said to include a promise of FUTURE harm (they were speaking in past tense). Especially when the point of the insult was targeted at HIM (humanity was beneath them). Even if that was the case, why would he come down from making the sacrifice that he knew would cause the Greek panthoen to fall out of favor with humanity (according to the comic itself, no less) and thus lose their power to fulfill any material threat against them for a punch up? Pride. Arrogance. Two things Jesus (the man spoken of in the NT and not the parody character we see here) spoke out against.
2. The temple market WAS an act violence directed at others in every sense of the term in Mosaic Law. The merchants violated a sacred space and harangued innocent people looking to pray in order to line their own pockets. By driving them out (mind you by destroying the implements of their crass consumerism and scaring them, not maiming the merchants themselves), Jesus stopped their violation and ceased their harassment of innocent people.
3. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas? Really now? Never mind the use of of an apocryphal text so out of bounds with things Jesus would have said in a Hebrew culture that it borders on parody (that's the least of it's problems), even if we were to accept this gospel as evidence of "Jesus as asskicker", there are two serious flaws with your argument: the first is that he was a CHILD when those events took place. Jesus was executed when he was in his early thirties. You me to tell me that between his early years, his ministry, and then his execution he wouldn't have changed completely? He would've remained a child, lashing out at people (as children do until they are disciplined and socialized)? Secondly, those narratives end with him undoing all the damage he's done and being disciplined by his parents, swearing to never lash out in violence ever again. So here too, your argument falls apart.
@SD
C.Wrong on so many levels. I'm reading this from the Jewish Study Bible (with commentary by The Jewish Publication Society).
1. "Basically"? Basically, your interpretation is off the mark. The people spoken of as "Evil" (note the word used in the phrasing denotes "murderous", meaning that the subjects of the condemnation have committed acts of violence against the Jews) are those who shed the blood of the Hebrews first. Once again, this is all defensive.
2. No such stories exist outside of your provably mislaid interpretation. Every single pagan group they fought with started the fight first (the term of "evil" and "murdurous" comes up again). Secondly, they couldn't have wiped out entire groups of pagans. Such an act would cost them resources, allies, and respect: three things they needed as they were surrounded by pagans and the fact that their allies in these campaigns were pagans. They assimilated the survivors, hence why there were so many people "not of the tribe" (non-hebrews) amongst them. The Jews couldn't just go around and start brawls with people who worshipped Baal or Dagon or a thousand other pantheons and dieties because they would turn the entire land against them. The only time they fought, was when blood was shed, when there was a military action taken against them.
I suggest you pick up a copy of the Jewish Study Bible (or any Judaic commentary or Midrash guide).
@Carl
Bzzt! Wrong.
Joshua did not wander into Canaan brawling (that would have been suicide). He first attempted the diplomatic route. Hence, why of the numerous disparate tribes of Canaan, only 31 decided to go to war with them (seeing the Jews as easy pickings or fearing the rise of a new power in a crowded landscape) while the rest of the tribes either remained Neutral or joined the Hebrews in battle. So no, it was defensive there too.
Furthermore, they couldn't have committed genocide. For one, they needed as many people as they could to fortify their numbers (as such assimilation was key). Secondly, that would have deprived them of trading partners and resources. Both of these things being critical during this stage in their nation building. Thirdly, this would have strained their alliance with the other Canaanite tribes.
So yes, Carl. I have read Jewish texts. And commentaries. And rabbinical literature. And journals on ANE culture in general. I suggest you do the same.
In fact, I highly recommend you read "Who Were the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From?" by William Dever. As it neatly proves my point.
Anonymous, read the actual texts and think about what you just said. The Hebrews were the most anti-assimilation people you can imagine (and remain so in the form of the Orthodox Jews and the Samaritans). And I love the idea that coming in from outside and conquering the entire area is somehow "diplomatic" because they had local allies at times. By that logic Cortez "diplomatically" conquered Mexico because he had local allies.
I have read the actual Torah (and numerous other documents) on the subject, which is why I'm telling you that you are completely wrong. At the time, the Hebrews were a very pro-assimilation tribe (being desperate for numbers).
Joshua was not "diplomatic" because he had allies on the inside during his war for Canaan. He was diplomatic because he tried to avoid a fight for a piece of land for his people to settle on. Needless bloodshed would have been pointless for a group so desperate for numbers as the Hebrews were. Cortez, on the other hand came in spoiling for a fight and with superior military technology at his side.
Read the books I've listed (especially Dever) and you'll see how ridiculous your argument is.
I love how there is more intellectual debate brought on by my criticism of this stuff than there is in the actual comic.
Just remember to keep it civil, kids.
"I'd liken it to the insult-fest in the Star Trek TOS episode "The Trouble with Tribbles", where Scotty holds Checkov back after the Klingons insults Kirk, but starts the fight himself when they insult the Enterprize; insulting one individual is one thing, since - as you say - one can ignore personal insults,"
You know, right, that Scotty is the engineer? He started that fight because, when the Klingon insulted the Enterprise (note the spelling), that's when it got personal for Scotty. (Enterprise Clears Moorings happened to be playing as I typed this, as an aside.)
At least, that's always been my interpretation of that particular fight.
Hm your a brave man Linkara, most people these days are afraid to even mention anything about religion on their shows. It even worse since even the smallest mention of region the comment boards usually devolve into a flame war between the religious and the atheists. I must say your fans are more intelligent then most. Hm if only more fan-bases in general were as polite and able to debate things as civilly as yours then the world would be a better place.
Agreed, Linkara. Since I'm not really in the mood to continue to argue this, I'll just end it with this:
Jesus is stated to have talked a tree into committing suicide simply because it couldn't bear any fruit. The tree didn't do anything to him, personally, or anyone else, he just talked it to death for the INSULT of not giving him fruit on demand.
Yeah, beating up on the Greek pantheon for insulting his own suicide and humanity as a whole doesn't seem so fickle of him, now, does it?
Plants are equivalent to sentient life now? Your argumentation is getting weaker by the second.
Ghandi famously sliced down a tree that did not bear fruit as an object lesson to the assembled masses. For Ghandi that tree was a representation of the oppressive rule of the British Empire who were full of pomp and circumstance and claimed to be a “civilized” people yet behaved savagely to those whom they oppressed. Is Ghandi fickle now?
In JC’s case the tree he saw in the garden was an object lesson, to the disciples and to onlookers. For Jesus that tree represented those who talked of righteousness and yet were barren in acts of kindness or good works (ie the religious leaders and political heads of his time). Jesus passed many fruit barren plants in his time, and yet they were not cursed (and considering his time in the dessert, he would have been far more desperate for nourishment before this incident). So no, the tree wasn’t cursed for “insulting” him. It was made to rot to demonstrate a valuable lesson. Not for his sake, but for the sake of others.
So no, you’ve completely missed the point and misinterpreted a passage….again.
Sorry, but your argument falls once again.
Quoth anonymous:
"It even worse since even the smallest mention of region the comment boards usually devolve into a flame war between the religious and the atheists."
Ever notice that on all those boards, it's the same argument again and again?
Sure, the words change, but the content is almost identical every time.
(Also, my post about Scotty above was badly-written. Sorry. Just going for 'my interpretation of that scene was the exact opposite to the other guy's, and I say this as someone who knows a thing or two about Trek.)
le-messor,
Personally, I think Scotty would have brawled with them anyway. We engineers are a short-tempered lot, just looking for an excuse to smack someone with a wrench.
Don't f*** with a man whose idea of a good time is building a combustion engine while consuming more alcohol than the entire nation of Peru.
Anonymous, what the hell? This is JESUS we're talking about; why would he NEED to deliberately kill a tree needlessly JUST to make a philosophical point? And the metaphor doesn't even make any sense; how is the tree being "oppressive" to anyone for not bearing fruit? You yourself said that Jesus likely passed by several trees like that, and didn't make an example of THEM, so why THIS particular tree? Saying the tree is supposed to be a metaphor is like when Queen Hipolyta in Amazon's Attack felt offended by the buildings in Washington DC being a "symbol of Man's oppression over the world", except at least that makes a little sense, since the buildings are actually representative of the government of the US, whereas JESUS JUST KILLED A TREE. What in the hell is a TREE supposed to represent, as far as oppressive rule? It would make more sense if the tree was unfruitful due to a parasite or something, and the metaphor was meant for the parasite instead of the tree, but no, it was just a tree that wasn't producing fruit. How is THAT representing oppression?
Oh, and let's not forget, JESUS TALKED A TREE INTO COMMITTING SUICIDE. Yeah, kinda hard to tout that he'd NEVER strike back at other people out of insult and "turn the other cheek" when he TALKS LIVING THINGS TO DEATH TO PROVE A POINT. I can see how walking on water was a metaphor for keeping your faith afloat in a sea of decadence, or multiplying the bread and fish as a metaphor for appreciating what you have exponentially more through your faith than without it, but killing a tree to represent how oppressive it is, like the Roman Government? The hell? And I read the bible passage several times (inactive Mormon here, so the bible WAS part of my religious dogma at the time), and there was NO HINT of a moral given to it; he just went up to a tree, saw it wasn't bearing fruit, said to the tree "You die now", and it DIED. That's it.
I'm sorry, but I'm sticking to my guns here; he was perfectly in the right to attack the Greek Pantheon for their insults; not only were they insulting his sacrifice and statements of godhood (which he seemed perfectly willing to endure), but they also insulted humanity and INSINUATED THEY WOULD TORTURE THEM JUST TO MAKE A POINT OF HOW GODS SHOULD TREAT MORTALS. As I said before, it's like Scotty blowing off the Klingon insults to Captain Kirk but striking back at the insults to the Enterprise in "The Trouble with Tribbles"; to insult one man is of less consequence than to insult the whole nation and insinuate harm on that group.
SD,
You’re a tad confused, aren’t you? Firstly, you confuse Jesus’ lesson with that of Ghandi. Ghandi cut down his tree as an object lesson as to the nature of British Imperialism. Jesus cursed a tree as an object lesson about false righteousness. It would have saved you a lot of typing if you kept the lessons straight. Secondly, Jesus cursed the tree as a visual aid for the assembled masses to make his point (given norms in Hebrew culture at the time, as well as Judaic rhetorical traditions this makes sense, as Rabbis often used visual aids in their lessons). Thirdly, returning to Ghandi and the theme of British oppression, that too makes a lot of sense. Ghandi argued that just as a fruit barren but otherwise leafy tree offers little and takes from the Indian soil, the British crown offered little more than outward beauty, but savagely raped the people and culture of India. It makes a lot of sense.
Furthermore, you once again attempt to equalize plant life with human life, seemingly unable to see the utter logical incongruity of your argument (and simultaneously revealing an astonishing lack of familiarity with NT study and Biblical exegesis in general). By your argument, if I cut down a tree, I will just as likely take an axe to a human being. Really, Sd? Really now?
Jesus used the tree as an object lesson, not for his sake or for personal pride but to demonstrate a valuable lesson, to point out a major social problem he saw for the sake of others . Now Rob Liefeld’s kung-fu fighter with a beard on the other hand? He assaulted the toga hit squad because they hurt his pride. As I said before, even if your argument was the case, why would he come down from making the sacrifice that he knew would cause the Greek pantheon to fall out of favor with humanity (once again this is according to the comic itself) and thus lose their power to fulfill any material threat against them for a punch up? Pride. Arrogance. Two things Jesus (the man spoken of in the NT and not the parody character we see here) spoke out against.
Feel free to “stick to your guns”, but understand that your “guns” are full of duds.
Guys? You do realize you're arguing not just about a comic-book depiction of Jesus, but a dream sequence about Jesus in a comic book. Even the characters in the book don't think Jesus actually did this.
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