A discussion between Linkara and Josh Hadley of Lost in the Static and Radiodrome about the upcoming DC reboot and digital comics. Recorded back in June of 2011.
Thursday, July 28, 2011
A Discussion of the DCU Reboot
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93 comments:
I live in Ireland and nearby is only one hobby store, in the entire City, which, unfortunately, only has a very very limited supply of comics and no real good space to start from. I never got much into DC/Marvel or Superhero-Comics in general because they just weren't around.
Today, I'd really like to read up on some of those stories and I have a very nice big screen Android-Tablet that makes it very easy to do just that. The DC Comic app (which is just Comixology with only DC instead of others as well - little cheap there, DC) works really well and has some really neat technique behind it to make it pleasant to read comics on large and small screens.
And I'm actually okay with the price. I just wish more comics would be available digitally, like the Darkwing Duck comic you mentioned. So yeah, I welcome the move to Digital, for a change. Now if only they had Titans digitally...
Very cool. I haven't gotten past the 10:00 minute mark, but I'm liking your banter so far.
Is there any way to get a downloadable MP3 of this?
Very good contrast between opinions, your perspective as someone younger and in touch with current ongoings and his older somewhat disillusioned perspective. He sounds like someone who just had his heart broken too many times by what writers did to his books.
Good afternoon, Linkara.
Question: exactly how long do you think publishers like Marvel and DC can go before SOMETHING like the DC reboot becomes necessary?
I've been reading comics for about 10 years now. And in my experience, continuity has been more important in the past few decades than, say, the Golden and Silver Ages.
By this I mean that it seems like you don't really have to be familiar with comics from, say, 1960 to understand modern plots. But comics from the 80s and 90s are more relevant. How long do you think in-continuity comics can keep piling up before Marvel/DC just go "we gotta reset this"?
My thanks in advance.
"By this I mean that it seems like you don't really have to be familiar with comics from, say, 1960 to understand modern plots. But comics from the 80s and 90s are more relevant. How long do you think in-continuity comics can keep piling up before Marvel/DC just go "we gotta reset this"?
My thanks in advance."
In the end, it always is going to come down to how it's written. Just because characters have histories behind them doesn't mean that those older stories are REQUIRED reading. It's like how a character in a TV show has their own backstory, has had events happen to them that we haven't seen. As long as the CURRENT story is good, with a character's own arc within the story itself, then a reboot should never be necessary.
I will say this about the reboot: The owner of my comic store is actually really excited by the reboot and his store is almost entirely comics and comic merchandise (IE, action figures, t-shirts and statues.) He's also been in business for 17 or so years. I have to say that I doubt he's going to go out of business because of this.
The only time I think a reboot should be necessary is if the current continuity is so utterly screwed up and confused that it just needs to happen.
Otherwise, I agree with Linkara. It's not necessary simply due to being long. PERCEPTION of continuity as a barrier is more of a barrier than continuity itself. I haven't had any trouble with continuity myself.
wOW! Your a lot younger than I thought you were.
You know this reminded me about my Kyle Rayner love. I never really got into Hal, not that I hated him. But I never got into Green Lantern until after Kyle.
I feel a big thing that seems to happen often in comic books that drives me crazy is the developing of interesting or new plot lines and Establishing new characters. And then when they get flack from groups of nostalgic fans they change everything back to the status quo.
I understand why it happens, and I can even sympathize with those people who are all nostalgic. I just wish that instead of hitting the reboot button. One could find a way to move forward and incorporate what is already there. The best writers take even things that are crap and use them and make them good.
Also both Blue Beetles are awesome.
I have a neutral view of this reboot. I understand why people are upset and also happy with it. Personally, I'm using this reboot as an excuse to actually buy comics instead of trade paperbacks. Hopefully Animal Man will be good since it sounds so good.
I loved the Ultimate universe when it first came out. It was nice seeing some of my favorite characters re-imagined (In a good way) and I was able to get into characters I never got into before. But now it's nothing like it was. Spider-Man hardly has a secret identity, half of the X-Men are dead, and the writing in Ultimates went waaaaaaay downhill after the first two mini-series.
Still, it was good for a while and I could understand if DC wanted to do the same thing. But they're outright replacing everything else instead of just making a separate universe. What the hell is the point?
I am totally in favor in DC's plan for digital comics, mostly because of what I went through this summer trying to read comics. When I was at school, there was a comic book store two blocks away that I could walk to. But now that I'm at home, the closest comic book store is in another state and I don't have a car. I really wanted to read Flashpoint. I tried buying them online, but there's really no good place to do that, and I tried getting them digitally, but they weren't available. I ended up torrenting a few of the ones I was going to buy, not because I want to steal them, but because I wanted to read them and I was out of options. I finally bought them on a trip(including the ones I torrented), but the point still remains. I will always prefer an actual comic to a digital one, but if I can't get that then I'd like some alternatives and digital is a good alternative.
In some ways, I can see what they're doing. But in other ways, some of the juggling around doesn't make sense and that a high sense of what I feel to be both favourtism and 'Silver Age Fetishism' seem to be at play, especially with Geoff Johns' Green Lantern, which seems to be the one least affected by the whole affair.
I can understand why they just didn't relaunch new characters with old names like they did back at the start of the Silver Age, but this picking and choosing is quite clearly not popular with the fans and I dread to imagine what a fully clean reboot would have done.
But this wouldn't really be an problem if they tried to keep things consistant and accessible. Stan Lee once said that 'Every Spider-Man comic is going to be somebody's First Spider-Man comic' and I agree with that idea. Continuity and back-referencing should either be kept low-key or simply never talked about.
A good case in point- Doctor Who.
Doctor Who has nearly fifty years of material, be it TV show, audio play, novel or comic and yes, while continuity is a bloody mess, it never really serves to affect the series itself, just the rather anal fans (going by both the BBC novels and the new TV series in sequence, the 8th Doctor destroyed Gallifrey twice- oops.) You're going to contradict or end up copying something, but why let that hurt a good story?
There are images of the superman costume from the reboot. SO BAD. I'm not against the reboot but DC has been rebooting its universe often, too often.
Oracle wasn't a better character. A more powerful one maybe, one with greater reach or influence maybe. Better? no, she had become almost evil without anyone saying anything. She got away with way too many injustices. What the birds of prey did with her and canary(but only sometimes with canary) made that book painful because justice was NOT being done.
The only problem with barbara as batgirl is that she should have been batwoman but that title was given away.
I used to live in England. Leeds specifically. In that city, there were Traveling Man, Forbidden Planet and one other who's name escapes me, but I visited all at least once a week and greatly enjoyed collecting comics.
I moved to the Netherlands about 4 years ago. I basically gave up on comics, besides web-comics, because they simply weren't available. There's one good store in Utrecht (about a 2 hour train ride away) that I visit about once every 6 months and buy some trades. Other than that, up until the time I got my iPhone 2 years ago, I simply didn't read comics. Not because I didn't care, but because I don't use credit cards, mail order is unreliable, and it was simply too much effort to be enjoyable. Now with Comixology, I can buy from a great selection, updated weekly, and support the writers/artists/publishers to some degree. In 2008 (pre iPhone) I'd be surprised if I spent more than 50 euros on comics. In 2011, on the iPhone apps alone, I've spent close to 150 euros on comic books. If I were still in Leeds, those same purchases would certainly be of the physical issues. Circumstances are different, and I'm extremely grateful for the digital option. I note that the only people who seem to complain about digital comics are those who have easy access to both print and digital. Please folks, stop trying to deny us comics in the only format readily available to us while you are spoilt for choice.
I'm actually a subscriber to Marvel Digital Comics. Back when Marvel vs Capcom came out they gave me a free 2 month subscription to the digital comics. So Marvel already has digital comics. Hell I've been slowly reading the entire x-men collection thanks to this.
Now if DC goes through this they probably won't be releasing comics right away for digital for a bit. That way it gives them the time to move the paperbacks first. This is what Marvel does. Witch I really like. It gives me access to a wealth of comics that I can't get even in trade paperback form. Now I still try to buy trade paperbacks when I can but I'm kind of poor. I also with the environmental issues going its a way for me to help be a little greener.
I'm 28 so I'm right in the middle of both of you. I also live in stevens point witch is right in the middle of both of you as well. I love my comics. I was into a lot of the image comics of the day. I was a huge spawn fan. I bought a crap ton of those action figures because of it. I was a collector, but I just couldn't support the love. I used to live in Marinette witch Josh would know is a half hour north of green bay. I've been to both of the comic shops in green bay but its just hard for me to get there to buy comics. So for me this is a way for me to be able to support the industry on my budget.
Lewis don't know if I've said this. But it was great working with you at daisho con. Sorry I wasn't very talkative. (I was the video game room chairman)
@Linkara: I've noticed weird graphic glitches in your videos, where suddenly spots of diagonal lines appear scattered throughout the screen. Is the Entity slowly taking over your videos?
Holy crap you're the same age as me! For some wierd reason I always thought you were old er tha me by like 3-5 years like most of the Channel Awesome folk! like most the others I know are like 27-30 years old!
I'm sorry man but I got to agree with the dude interviewing you in that if I buy a comic I want to be able to hold it in my hand! Also, if a person has a computer or iPad or whatever with the net and can go pay and down load a comic off the web they can also do like I do buy it online and have it mailed to them. I just really hate the idea of paying for something that I can hold and if at all possible sale to some one else later.
That Stormwatch comic he described sounds an awful lot like Garth Ennis's The Boys or Marshel Law with the whole team of supers or tacticly trained humans designed to take down rogue or too powerful supers! I like those kinds of comics but from my understanding of a lot of die hard comic fans they take it as you hate super heroes and classic comics in general to like those type that show ovious analogues to mainstream characters like Batman, Superman, Ironman, and the Hulk doing horrible but yet realistic things just because they got powers and publisity!
Azreal wasn't ment to be taken serious as the new Batman back then he was ment to be a critique of the 90s era anti-hero uber violent Liefieldian style comic characters. He was ment to make Batman as brutal as such characters as Punisher and Spawn, but to later bed easily defeated and replaced again with the classic Bruce Wayne Batman once he got all healed up and they were sure people were sick and tired of this new imposter Batman. They even made up a half assed excuss for hy he didn't pick Dick as his replacement like he didn't want him to get hurt seaking revenge on Bane but Azreal went out the 1st 2-3 comics after becoming Batman to find Bane and fight him, so that point was absolutely worthless!
I own a bootleg copy of that Grayson fan-film and I gotta say that was one of the best DC addaptations I've ever seen and if you look it up the creater of it wrote a full length scrit for it if he could get aproovel and funding by DC to do so! But, it turns out DC and the WB got overly POed over it and made it to where they'd no longer allow fan made films to be made or shown at some cons! Even though I've seen a couple really good ones online that were made recently that even put Grayson and Batman: Dead End and World's Finist to shame!
Oh my God I own that Tick comic ya'll talked about there and it was freaking awesome! I got the Tick #1-6 and I've been wanting to find moe of them but they're quite difficalt to find and normally really high to buy!
I still read Heavy Metal when I can it's got some awesome stories and comics and some of the best damned artwork out there but you can't beat Luis Royo when it comes to coverart! But Ales Ross is better in the realistic department but he rarely does them anymore that I can see!
I'd love to start collecting comics from number one with the relaunch bbut at $3.50 a Comic I'd be broke after I get done with just my base fave series Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, and Titans!
I'm really curious Mr. Linkara if you hate Garth Ennis's work so much why you don't review one of his knotorious comics like Preacher, Hitman, or the Boys? Is it because you'd have to blackout all the nudity or you not like the cursing?
I'm also curious of you oppenion of Warren Ellis!?
I'm sorry for posting this so many times but this is on my right account my other account keeps signing me in insted of my main account this one please pubish this one not the others! peace, man!
Holy crap you're the same age as me! For some wierd reason I always thought you were old er tha me by like 3-5 years like most of the Channel Awesome folk! like most the others I know are like 27-30 years old!
I'm sorry man but I got to agree with the dude interviewing you in that if I buy a comic I want to be able to hold it in my hand! Also, if a person has a computer or iPad or whatever with the net and can go pay and down load a comic off the web they can also do like I do buy it online and have it mailed to them. I just really hate the idea of paying for something that I can hold and if at all possible sale to some one else later.
That Stormwatch comic he described sounds an awful lot like Garth Ennis's The Boys or Marshel Law with the whole team of supers or tacticly trained humans designed to take down rogue or too powerful supers! I like those kinds of comics but from my understanding of a lot of die hard comic fans they take it as you hate super heroes and classic comics in general to like those type that show ovious analogues to mainstream characters like Batman, Superman, Ironman, and the Hulk doing horrible but yet realistic things just because they got powers and publisity!
Azreal wasn't ment to be taken serious as the new Batman back then he was ment to be a critique of the 90s era anti-hero uber violent Liefieldian style comic characters. He was ment to make Batman as brutal as such characters as Punisher and Spawn, but to later bed easily defeated and replaced again with the classic Bruce Wayne Batman once he got all healed up and they were sure people were sick and tired of this new imposter Batman. They even made up a half assed excuss for hy he didn't pick Dick as his replacement like he didn't want him to get hurt seaking revenge on Bane but Azreal went out the 1st 2-3 comics after becoming Batman to find Bane and fight him, so that point was absolutely worthless!
I own a bootleg copy of that Grayson fan-film and I gotta say that was one of the best DC addaptations I've ever seen and if you look it up the creater of it wrote a full length scrit for it if he could get aproovel and funding by DC to do so! But, it turns out DC and the WB got overly POed over it and made it to where they'd no longer allow fan made films to be made or shown at some cons! Even though I've seen a couple really good ones online that were made recently that even put Grayson and Batman: Dead End and World's Finist to shame!
Oh my God I own that Tick comic ya'll talked about there and it was freaking awesome! I got the Tick #1-6 and I've been wanting to find moe of them but they're quite difficalt to find and normally really high to buy!
I still read Heavy Metal when I can it's got some awesome stories and comics and some of the best damned artwork out there but you can't beat Luis Royo when it comes to coverart! But Ales Ross is better in the realistic department but he rarely does them anymore that I can see!
I'd love to start collecting comics from number one with the relaunch bbut at $3.50 a Comic I'd be broke after I get done with just my base fave series Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, and Titans!
I'm really curious Mr. Linkara if you hate Garth Ennis's work so much why you don't review one of his knotorious comics like Preacher, Hitman, or the Boys? Is it because you'd have to blackout all the nudity or you not like the cursing?
I'm also curious of you oppenion of Warren Ellis!?
I would love to hear what you have to say now that there is so much more available about the reboot. I have the DC Comics: The New 52 freebie that I picked up from my comic shop. It disconcerts me that Birds of Prey, Doom Patrol, Madame Xanadu, Secret Six, and other titles are now gone. Also, it's depressing that this reboot also gives them only one female writer (Gail Simone, but still only one) in the mix, and I don't thin I see any female artists in the mix. It's something I look for in my books, and I would have thought the reboot would have been a chance to bring back my favorite DC author: Rachel Pollack (I think she would have been good for Justice League Dark).
Also, I would love to hear your opinion on the fact that Hawk an Dove is being drawn by none other than Rob Liefeld.
Well, that was silly in my last post. I said that tere was no Birds of Prey and I look back through the issue I talked about. There is a Birds of Prey. So yeah, that was my mistake. But the other ones still stand. And there's oddly no Authority or WildCATS, even though Jim Lee was at the head of this relaunch.
Glad to see another fan of Moon Knight, however I liked his current run. Like, around when Civil War started and he came back into the Marvel Universe. Maybe it's cuss that's how I got introduced to the character, i dunno, but I didn't really hate it. Something just seemed so appealing about a schizophrenic Batman. That run was okay, loved Vengeance of the Moon Knight, loving Secret Avengers. I just love the guy. Maybe I should check up on some of the old school stuff to see what you're talking about, but, whatever. I liked it.
... that being said, I'm not really digging the new Moon Knight direction. Something about him seeing Spider-Man, Wolverine and Captain America and cos-playing as them and ... it's just ... I'm still reading it, but so far ... eeeeeeh.
"I'm sorry for posting this so many times but this is on my right account my other account keeps signing me in insted of my main account this one please pubish this one not the others! peace, man!"
Okay, but bear in mind your screen name is pretty recognizable however it's spelled, so it doesn't really make much of a difference. Also, I don't know if it's on your end or not, but even when you're signed in with this one, you seem to keep making more than one of the same post, anyway.
"I'm really curious Mr. Linkara if you hate Garth Ennis's work so much why you don't review one of his knotorious comics like Preacher, Hitman, or the Boys? Is it because you'd have to blackout all the nudity or you not like the cursing?"
Preacher, Hitman, and the Boys are popular and well-liked. I'm not going to rain on everyone else's good time just because I'm not fond of them.
I will admit I lost most of my hope in the DCnU after learning about various character reboots, specifically Barbara Gordan and Roy Harper, from SDCC panels.
In my mind, Barbara was an example of a great character and role-model. She suffered a huge setback and instead of giving up, she pushed on to become useful in different ways as Oracle. I used her and know others who have used her as examples to special needs kids that just because something terrible happens, it doesn't mean you have to give up. Maybe you have to change, but you can still be great. With her return to Batgirl, I feel like the new message she's sending is "Hey, as long as you wait long enough you'll get better!"
Roy Harper is a more biased one since he's one of my all-time favorite DC characters, but it's along the same lines. The man has messed up. Repeatedly and often. But he clawed his way back up each time and managed both to be a decent superhero and a reasonably good single dad. Proof than even if you make a few horrible mistakes, that doesn't mean your life is over. Sure, they may haunt you for a very long time or even as long as you live, but if you pick yourself up and fight for your right to exist it is possible to move on. While I am glad that his role in Cry for Justice and the Rise of Arsenal are no longer part of continuity, I am incredibly upset and confused that they're taking away his former addiction, and the entire existence of Lian, as well.
Then there's Wally West having a family being a large part of the decision to get rid of him, basically ALL of the relationships being dissolved, Donna Troy being deleted because she's apparently too much like Wonder Woman, and the fact that Superboy seems to be starting out with the torture of a kid for pure sensationalism.
I am well and truly in shock over the way DC is handling this.
"Okay, but bear in mind your screen name is pretty recognizable however it's spelled, so it doesn't really make much of a difference."
Cool, my name is recognizable! :D
The only real difference is this account is attached to my hotmail address so I can set it up to email me for every comment that is placed on this video/vlog/artical/whatever. And, I check my hotmail account every 30 minutes I'm online and the other account is attached to my ATT account which I only got because of my net provider and I rarely check it. Normally when I do I delete every thing because it's all junk mail. It's hard to exsplain well.
"Also, I don't know if it's on your end or not, but even when you're signed in with this one, you seem to keep making more than one of the same post, anyway."
Sorry about that normally when I hit submit it doesn't ask if I want to reseve comment emails till after I post the comment so I got to do it again. I don't know how to fix that outside posting twice. Sorry agin!
"Preacher, Hitman, and the Boys are popular and well-liked. I'm not going to rain on everyone else's good time just because I'm not fond of them."
What? I'm a fan of them and I'm asking. Nothing is more fun than to see riffs on things you enjoy. It's just cool if you just don't want to have to read or buy them to write a skit on them I can understand that. it amkes this no longer a fun thing to do but like having to write a school report on a book you'd never read or wanted to read ever. I've had to do that in the past. If I still had my double of it I'd send you the 1st trade to the Boys I had.
Sorry again if I caused any confusion. :bow:
Lewis? Some trolls are after ya:
http://cwcki.yuku.com/topic/116/People-as-bad-or-lulzy-as-chris#.TjLzK4LXmxB
I would've sent an E-mail but you don't seem to have that link around anymore.
I wouldn't click that if you're in a good mood. They put you on the same level as Chris-Chan and Jack Chick, and make up something about you being a crazy stalker rapist who actually believes his gun is magic. They're serious.
I don't know if they're going to do anything, but...heads up if they do. Stuff like this makes me sick.
"I wouldn't click that if you're in a good mood. They put you on the same level as Chris-Chan and Jack Chick, and make up something about you being a crazy stalker rapist who actually believes his gun is magic. They're serious.
I don't know if they're going to do anything, but...heads up if they do. Stuff like this makes me sick."
If they're dumb enough to think I'm in any way similar to Chris-Chan or that I can't tell the difference between stuff I write for an internet show and what happens in real life, then they're not worth my attention, anyway.
Still, thanks for the concern. ^_^
"What? I'm a fan of them and I'm asking. Nothing is more fun than to see riffs on things you enjoy. It's just cool if you just don't want to have to read or buy them to write a skit on them I can understand that. it amkes this no longer a fun thing to do but like having to write a school report on a book you'd never read or wanted to read ever. I've had to do that in the past. If I still had my double of it I'd send you the 1st trade to the Boys I had.
Sorry again if I caused any confusion. :bow:"
Noted. XD However, I'd prefer not to get into arguments over this kind of stuff when a lot of it comes down to personal preference.
"Noted. XD However, I'd prefer not to get into arguments over this kind of stuff when a lot of it comes down to personal preference."
True, but don't let arguements stand in your way. They'll happen no matter how hard you try to avoid them I've seen the arguements on the Snob's site. People will ague over some pretty petty stuff. How about insted of Garth Ennis's stuff a simular story and comic with the same basic plot but it came about 10-12 years before like Marshal Law? I just want to see you do the "arguement"(sorry the pun was unintended) on the idea that they share of heroes from comics would be asses in reallife and how most readers hate that idea. Sorry for the rambling, but this is my 1st time to get you into a conversation/back and forth! :D I'm a big fan of your work!
The DC Reboot is very confusing...some books are complete reboots while others are untouched, some are set "5 years ago" while others are set in the present, Superman was the first hero '5 years ago" yet characters like Batman have been operating for 10 years to account for the Robins. How exactly is this cleaning the slate for new readers?
I myself was a lapsed comic book fan but reading a Grant Morrison Batman trade sucked me back in a year or two ago. Granted, I've only kept up with Morrison-written titles but I've enjoyed them and the continuity references in his work have inspired me to go look up all the old stories I can! So the justification that continuity alienates new readers rings false to me. Like you said, the stories need to be good. It seems like good titles like Secret Six and Batman Inc. are casualties of this reboot.
Have you by chance ever read the Final Crisis Superman Beyond, Lewis? I love the statement made by Morrison that Superman would some up his life with the phrase "to be continued." That's why undoing Superman's marriage and making him young and brooding. It sort of misses the point of the character. What Superman Beyond illustrates well is that Superman's genius and idealism is what makes him a hero, not his ability to punch through walls. And it's a great example of how you can use Superman's marriage to tell a great story.
I've always like DC characters better than Marvel but with a few exceptions all their stories still count as having happened. It gives me incentive to read classic stories on the Marvel digital site. The Reboot invalidates a lot of DC's stories, and for what? An unmarried Superman? Are we supposed to believe he or Lois will honestly have any lasting relationships with other people?
I love hearing Josh on Radiodrome so it was cool hearing both of you guys just talk about random stuff.
Also that guy you two were talking about who tried to make superheroes look bad is Glorious Godfrey. He appeared on an episode of Justice League but without the Darkseid connection.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kXw0UUrMIE
This may seem rather trivial but I was wondering if you had seen the new design for Harley Quinn's costume and your views on her in general.
For the whole "comic costumes copying movie costumes", I don't know a lot about comics so I'm going to talk about something I know more about: Theme Park Rides. The ride that Pirates of the Caribbean is based on has no story. It's just seeing a lot of Pirates run around. So fans of the movie series went on the ride their first time and wondered where Jack Sparrow was. As a result, Jack was shoved into the Florida ride(And the other ones too but, I'm not sure). I believe that's what's going on with comics. New comic book readers want to see the movie heroes so they make them look like them.
But that's just my theory.
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/punisher/ The perfect free comic for you to review because alot of people I know HATE this comic because it does show how much the writer hates heroes! It's a sort of famious Marvel What If...? Specal! like the Elseworld stories you've review in the past this one should be perfect!
This is becoming a pet peeve of mine, so allow me to say this.
Stop putting podcasts in video form.
There are a few other podcasts like this. It's just shy of an hour of audio. Even someone like me who sits at their computer alot, it's a bit much. I'm tech savvy enough to download the stream and either play it in the background or rip the audio but it's still annoiying.
-Sabre
I am just hoping during this reboot they don't do another monstrosity like countdown considering what that did though I have to say there were good ideas to it like the "whos killing the new gods thing" that could've been one of its main narratives instead of a disease that is turning people into scrappy doo, and killing off characters that are even remotely interesting like the jokster, but the super mega awesome editor dan "I hate 52" didio wanted to do everything he can to make sure 52 was "done right" wheres 52 was an awesome read wheres countdown is a pile of crap decorated with rotten eggs.
Just fyi.. that tightness you feel is Didio and Johns kicking Action Comics fans in the crotch as they turn it back to #1.
(Sorry for posting before reading others' comments, and therefore probably repeating.)
1. "Jim Starlin's stuff is all 'religion is evil'. Why hasn't anybody noticed before me?"
I noticed. Believe me, I noticed.
2. I'd recommend the Steph Brown Batgirl series for a 5yo niece.
Just listened to your show. I think the crossover podcast with other fans is something you should think about doing more of. It's a good way to cover interesting topics that you normally wouldn't talk about on the regular show.
Kind of disappointed that you guys didn't talk about the DCU reboot itself that much, instead of other topics that popped up.
You guys touched on several time the topic how inappropriate some modern comics are for kids, and how immature "adult" comics can be. This is something that I think could been emphasized more, and tied into the main topic of the reboot. It's why I think the comic industry has been in decline.
Look at how the characters are portrayed in other media, even PG-13 live action movies. The heroes are still heroes, and often stick closely to their iconic portrayals. A sense of fun and optimism is maintained. People want fun in their entertainment. But can you imagine how the actual comics might come across to a young kid who's interested because of a movie, or a cartoon show? To open a comic book and see so much blood, gore, and death?
If the reboot is serious about bringing in new and younger audiences, that "dark" and gritty stuff needs to be toned down. Yet I don't think that's going to be the case. Remember when DC claimed that they would tell lighter stories after Infinite Crisis? Ha.
I read somewhere that DC's new, post-reboot target audience will be males ages 18-34...yeah, they're really aiming younger there. The comic industry lost its way a long time ago, and is hurting itself by targeting nothing but a shrinking audience of adult men. Even when they say that they're aiming younger.
On the subject of the Star Wars prequels, which was brought up near the end, I want to stick up for the prequel characters. I've always found the prequels to be underrated, and far more nuanced and well constructed than people give them credit for. I think that Josh (despite not liking the prequels) was actually pretty spot-on in his assessment of them: that they "modernized" the characterizations. If by that he meant that the characters were more angsty and flawed, with deeper backstories and motivations.
I get why that might not be somebody's cup of tea. There's something to be said about brighter, more optimistic portrayals, as I advocate above myself. But it's also one of the reasons why I love the prequels. I'd argue that Anakin and Obi-Wan are the deepest characters in the entire SW saga. Obi-Wan in TPM is a by-the-book Jedi, who believes in authority and isn't exactly a people person. He didn't even want to train Anakin, but got stuck with him. Anakin was a slave boy with attachment issues, and a desire to right the kind of wrongs that he saw and experienced himself (as only he saw fit). Only he couldn't do that because Obi-Wan didn't believe in him, and was overbearing and authoritarian. Their motivations made sense and were realistic to me, and could be traced all the way back to their first scenes in Episode I.
The two of them have a strained father/son relationship, which ties into the entire saga's themes of breaking free from parental control to achieve your potential, and correcting the previous generation's mistakes.
"Preacher, Hitman, and the Boys are popular and well-liked. I'm not going to rain on everyone else's good time just because I'm not fond of them."
And face it, Linkara: You couldn't do a show ragging on those titles because: They're good comics. Admit it. You just don't like some of the content, which you feel is unneccesary. Same way I don't care to read Fables or Harry Potter, but acknowledge that there is "something special" in each of those series, and understand why people like them.
ha ha the reboot. a banned topic in our household.
what's your opinion on Flashpoint: Citizen Cold #2?
I'm not gonna lie... I don't really like this guy very much, Lewis. He seems really whiny about things that he only has third-hand knowledge of. I'm only about 15 minutes in but... Honestly, he should probably stop making statements about things that piss him off with stories he's never read.
I hope he does.
As I've said in previous posts, I'm going to give the DCnU the benefit of the doubt right now, and give it a chance come September. I'll admit, for all my concerns and uncertainties regarding the "reboot", I AM curious and intrigued by what they're doing. So unless the stories are the all the equivalent of "JLA: Cry of Justice", I doubt I'm going to give up on DC anytime soon.
But that being said... as I said before, I still have my concerns. DC has stated that a big reason for the quasi-reboot is that they're trying to make the stories easier for new readers to understand. They claim that 40-60 years of continuity makes it highly difficult for new fans to get into comics.
Okay, I get that. I don't necessarily agree with that opinion (after all, I got into comics BECAUSE of the continuity), but I get where they are coming from.
But here's the thing I keep asking: Isn't DC running the risk of creating more continuity confusion that will not only negatively affect new readers, but old ones as well?
After all, the DCnU is not starting from the very beginning. We're not getting 52 origin stories. Instead it's starting 5 years into the "modern age of heroes" (with the exception of Batman who's 10 years in). And during this 5-10 year period, certain events have already happened. Many of which are from the soon-to-be defunct current continuity. (i.e. Blackest Night, Death of Superman, the Killing Joke, Identity Crisis, etc...)
And here in lies the problem: Those stories as they currently are don't exactly mesh with the new continuity. If a new fan reads Death of Superman, they're not going to understand how it fits in with the DCnU continuity.
After all, in the new DCU Superman's parents are dead, he not only hasn't dated Lois, but she's also completely unaware of his double life, and the world itself doesn't trust him because he's an alien and a super-hero. But Death of Superman relies heavily on his relationships with his parents, with his fiance Lois Lane, and the entire world mourned his death because he was internationally loved and trusted.
The same problem is going to pop up for Identity Crisis and Blackest Night. Those stories rely heavily on prior stories and relationships that may not have ever happened in the new continuity. How can Blackest Night work properly if all those dead characters never existed and/or never died? How can Identity Crisis make sense if Ray Palmer and Jean Lorring never dated (in fact, since Ryan Choi is the Atom again, did Ray Palmer ever become the Atom?)
How is DC going to have these stories make sense with the new Continuity? Are they going to have to retell all these stories in order to help the audience understand how it all connects or something? That doesn't seem likely since DC seems intent on telling new stories so how are they going to keep some of these old stories and have them make sense with the new continuity?
Josh at the moment in time, falling off effects a lot of his opinion, as he doesn't know anything about the character's currently really and their growths or who has been pissed all over. Also it seems like he likes very specific characters, and didn't keep up with some of their stuff.
Lewis I DISAGREE about the male power fantasy when it comes to Garth, The boys is rather good stuff, with a decently set up and a commentary about how much controls corporations have over the Earth and what if people presented as superheroes though about using their godliness for their own selfish wants because no one can say.
*Just got to the Blue Beele suit*
WAIT WHAT! I'm sorry Josh but when you consider the new suit is an alien being and isn't like a Liefeld shoulder pad or too many freaking pouches it's a decent costume.
"what's your opinion on Flashpoint: Citizen Cold #2?"
I have not read any of the extraneous flashpoint material because it's useless anyway. Honestly, this alternate timeline is getting erased at the end of this month anyway; I don't know why companies choose to put tons and tons of extra stories out for alternate universe stories with versions of these characters that are going to be deleted very soon.
I've read only the main Flashpoint series because that's going to be the one where the universe change happens.
A rather crotchety sort, wasn't he? I will admit he had plenty of valid and interesting points, but he certainly fits the bit for a man with an incredible eye for the status of his lawn (and any children on it!)
You sounded professional and fair in your stances and interactions the whole event, which isn't easy since it was a long one!
Now that we have a crapload of info about what's happening with each book, I'd love to hear a sequel.
I really dug this style of casual conversation of comics. I hope you do this sort of thing again. I enjoyed it enough to listen to it twice and write down a lot of recommendations to read myself later. Keep up the good work!
-Russell_Nash
Lewis, I'd highly suggest you read Citizen Cold it is an interesting premise to a mini series with Captain Cold, even with the whole thing going on these are very interesting stories to read about.
Just to give you a run down of a few of them:
-Green Arrow: Ollie Queen the industrialist weapon's manufacturer(who bases his weapons off villains deigns) who finds out that his practices has some big draw backs.
-Batman: The story of how Thomas dose his batman thing, which invovles basically a batman along the lines of The Dark Knight Returns and a vastly different support team
Citizen Cold: Basically Captain Cold pulling a thunderbolts Gambit by being a hero in the public eye when he's really a pretty crooked himself and hiding his true identity from people.
Deadman and the Flying Graysons: Dick and Boston work for the same troop that is along the border of Aquaman and wonder woman's expanding territory
Legion of Doom: basically the Fortress of doom is a prison and Eel aka Plasticman is helping lead an escape since in Flash point U he's a villian.
Project Superman: basically the U.S. attempts to make a super human using an unknown alien as a base
to me I just read it an anthology of one alternate universe since almost none of these books require flash to even be mentioned.
A bunch of Biased DC fan boys crying over an inferior product.
"A bunch of Biased DC fan boys crying over an inferior product."
Some anonymous jackass who apparently feels the need to make lines in the sand between two companies who equally put out good and bad products.
Moron.
Look DC only has two good things going for it. That is Batman and Green Lantern. Everything else is garbage. Trust I have done my research DC churns more shit than a hog farm. There heroes are too perfect no matter how much you reboot or whatever they are still going to suck dick.
Its as plain and simple as that the only characters that seem to have anything close to connect with the reader are the Green Lantern and Batman. Its a fact and as simple as that all there female heroes are a joke and can't and never will be taken seriously. I don't care what your feminist supporting views are. But then again this is the guy who got pissed and Green Lantern and Green Arrow for having guy talk. You have said in the past you prefer DC I counted up the reviews of DC and Marvel. DC churns out shit left and right its fucking retarded.
Also best thing DC did was make Vertigo where they actually know how to tell fucking stories. Like Preacher,Hellblazer,Sandman, and Swamp Thing. Alas I can't lie that I am excited to hear Swamp Thing is returning about time DC learned something right. I am honestly excited to read the whole Blackest Knight Crossover. Which I have heard nothing but good things about. Hell I know its better than Marvel Zombies and I haven't even read it.
But face Marvel it is hands down the best company at the end of the day and you biased DC fan boys and you all are biased trust its a fact. So get over it I bet you will be buying and reading the shit in no time. Because you area biased ass DC fan boy. If DC comics tells you to jump you will do it.
Goodbye Lewis
"Look DC only has two good things going for it. That is Batman and Green Lantern. Everything else is garbage. Trust I have done my research DC churns more shit than a hog farm. There heroes are too perfect no matter how much you reboot or whatever they are still going to suck dick."
I'd love to know exactly what your definition of "perfect" is. What is your research process, exactly? Is there some sort of empirical standard that is absolutely unbiased and based completely in objectivity and not personal preference?
"Its as plain and simple as that the only characters that seem to have anything close to connect with the reader are the Green Lantern and Batman."
I have never "connected" with any of the Green Lanterns. I enjoy the Green Lantern books because I like space operas, but it isn't about "connecting" to them, espedcially since Hal Jordan, as a character, isn't exactly the most interesting person.
And while the Batman books have been great with Batman, Inc., I will freely admit that I wasn't regularly buying Batman books until Dick Grayson took over the mantle... which they're now discarding in the reboot.
"Its a fact and as simple as that all there female heroes are a joke and can't and never will be taken seriously."
How nicely pessimistic. Also, once again I must remind you the difference between "fact" and "opinion."
"I don't care what your feminist supporting views are. But then again this is the guy who got pissed and Green Lantern and Green Arrow for having guy talk."
I got pissed off because two characters discussed something that had broader implications to other characters that had nothing to do with the story just so they can raise this image of Hal Jordan as sexually virile in the hero community for no reason whatsoever.
"You have said in the past you prefer DC I counted up the reviews of DC and Marvel. DC churns out shit left and right its fucking retarded."
Oh, yes, using ableist language truly shows you being the more mature and reasoned person here.
As it happens, I haven't counted how many reviews I've done for DC over Marvel or whatnot. Then again, I'm technically ALWAYS going to have reviewed more DC than Marvel because I reviewed Countdown, which is 51 issues.
What more confuses me is how, if I'm such a "fanboy" of DC (even though I've admitted in the past that I read more DC than Marvel simply because I have more history with their characters), that I can spend so much time analyzing the crappy stories that come out of the company? Logically, as a fanboy, shouldn't I be always bashing Marvel left and right and praising everything DC ever does?
"Also best thing DC did was make Vertigo where they actually know how to tell fucking stories. Like Preacher,Hellblazer,Sandman, and Swamp Thing."
They also made Army@Love and SCI-Spy. Not every story a company produces is good.
"Alas I can't lie that I am excited to hear Swamp Thing is returning about time DC learned something right. I am honestly excited to read the whole Blackest Knight Crossover. Which I have heard nothing but good things about. Hell I know its better than Marvel Zombies and I haven't even read it."
Indeed, I enjoyed Blackest NIGHT. I'd recommend you learn how to spell the damn series, it'd help identify what you're looking for.
"But face Marvel it is hands down the best company at the end of the day and you biased DC fan boys and you all are biased trust its a fact. So get over it I bet you will be buying and reading the shit in no time. Because you area biased ass DC fan boy. If DC comics tells you to jump you will do it."
And yet you are responding to a podcast wherein we're talking about our concerns and beliefs that they're making a huge mistake. Judging by that, if they ask me to jump, I'll say "Why the hell should I do what you say? You canceled Secret Six."
"Goodbye Lewis"
Oh, somehow I doubt it.
Excuse me Knight was typo. You know I am human we all can't be perfect like on your little your channel awesome world.
So I would recommend that you learn how to appreciate my opinion. Because see I can be like you assholes on Channel Awesome. My opinion is the only one that matters and face its doesn't matter. What you too little boys think on your podcast DC is going to do what they want and you will be reading and eating that shit up in no time. You obviously only think of Green Lantern as a space opera because its obviously too deep and complex for you to understand. So get fucked Lewis it sounds like you need it. I mean by someone else besides your post op boyfriend. Now goodbye Lewis and I know you will respond to this. You Channel Awesome kids take the bait all the time. You know Bait like what you use in hunting and fishing. Two things I now you or anyone else on Channel Awesome can't do.
"Excuse me Knight was typo. You know I am human we all can't be perfect like on your little your channel awesome world."
Hey, welcome back, dumbass! I knew you'd return. Trolls always want to have the last word. They just can't stay away.
"So I would recommend that you learn how to appreciate my opinion."
Oh, I do appreciate it. You know how I appreciate it? By not going over to wherever the hell you hang out and start making baseless accusations and statements without anything to back it up, nor I post anonymously because I'm either too lazy to make a damn screen name or because I'm terrified of having a name attached to myself.
"Because see I can be like you assholes on Channel Awesome. My opinion is the only one that matters and face its doesn't matter."
Funny, because I say all the time in my videos that people are free to have their own opinions and agree or disagree with me. Hell, even the statement "this comic sucks" is a declaration of an opinion. I think if you look back at all my videos, you won't find a single video where I say that I am absolutely right and everyone else is wrong. But then again, you don't actually watch my videos, do you?
Of course you don't - you just spend your time trying to agitate internet reviewers on their blogs to try to get a rise out of them. The difference being that responding to people on my blog? I see that as part of my job, since I like interacting with my fans. But there's that key word: job. This is my job, and a damn fun one at that. And for several other people at Channel Awesome, it's their job, too. We have jobs that we enjoy, that allow us to work from home, set our own hours, allow us to be creative and interact with other people who have similar thoughts and feelings or even different ones...
Yeah, not sure where I was going with that... oh, right. Yeah, I've never said what you think I said and I have over 150 videos that are proof of that and all you have is dick.
"What you too little boys think on your podcast DC is going to do what they want and you will be reading and eating that shit up in no time."
Again, do you actually know what the hell happens on my show? You do realize it's about BAD comics, right? And that having a good chunk of DC stories there means that there are a lot of bad stories that I break down and critique?
You obviously only think of Green Lantern as a space opera because its obviously too deep and complex for you to understand."
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- oh, you're serious, aren't you?
...BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
"Now goodbye Lewis and I know you will respond to this. You Channel Awesome kids take the bait all the time. You know Bait like what you use in hunting and fishing. Two things I now you or anyone else on Channel Awesome can't do."
Weeeeelll, now here's the funny thing there, sunshine - this is my blog, which I mean I approve or reject every comment made. So I let your little posts get through because I like everyone else to see how much of a moron you are. Once you stop being amusing to me, however, I can just flat-out reject your ass and not have a second thought about it. Why? Because my life is awesome and I could give a rat's ass what some dumbass anonymous troll thinks. I respond because it amuses me to.
Have a lovely evening.
Well, it looks like Douchey McNitpick has found this page's comment section. I suddenly don't feel so bad about your unleashing Comicron-1 on his ass.
See I put you in your place I will tell you what seeing you have all the time in the world and parents that pay your rent. Why don't you come meet me in person? Its as simple as that. If you think that Green Lantern is a Space Opera you sir are a fucking moron. Its your blog so fucking what had you not started sucking on the tits on Noah Antwiler. You would have been canned after the first shows you had. Hey what happend to that chick with the goggles. Did she refuse to take someones load in here mouth because she has self respect?
Also you are on a Website where on of your contributors constantly E-Begs and had a heart attack in his 20's. You think that's ok right? I mean you are just a Micro Celebrity that no one and I mean no one gives a fuck about.
So come meet me in persons I will teach you actual life skills no just sitting in front of a camera. The only reason people think I am an idiot is well because.... There your fucking moronic inbred fans that eat your shit up. Buddy I would suggest you get the fuck off your High horse. Because your not a big deal oh and if the government collapses tomorrow how is your amazing ability to review comics and sucks Noah's dick going to help you? It won't because alls you can do is one thing and one thing only.
That's review comics and talk shit about people who even on the worst days still make more money and pay there own way for things. While you live off your parents and live with your ugly ass Girlfriend.
Face it you had to do this for a living because you could never work a real job. Before you even say what you do is real job shut the fuck up. Someone with a digital camera and 30 bucks can do what you do.
I myself am nervous about the reboot. I admit to not knowing much about comics, but I know enough to start a discussion and at least hold my own. I fear that they'll change the mythos I'm familiar with for the sake of the "new demographic".
O.O And...wow. Linkara, I apologize for that troll. He does not represent our entire species and I will soon have him melted off the face of the earth. In anycase, he automatically loses. YOU have a spaceship.
BTW, you remember me? You gave me writing advice on Deviantart. I'm working on a novel now! ^^ If I ever get it published, I'll use it to smash that troll's nonexistant brain in for ya.
A supporter always, Kaylee, aka "That Girl Without The Account".
*Standing ovation from the crowd, Lewis takes a bow, and the curtain falls on a spectacularly composed (and proofread) rebuttal. Roses and assorted sweets and chocolates fly onto the stage*
Wow, it takes a lot of balls to call someone an inbred moron when you have no idea how to use "there," "your," or their homonyms.
Oh, and Linkara, if the American government collapses for some reason, you can come up here to Canada and sleep on my couch. It's comfy and leather. Hope you're not allergic to dogs.
read anonymous in superboy prime voice it's hilarious
"See I put you in your place I will tell you what seeing you have all the time in the world and parents that pay your rent. Why don't you come meet me in person? Its as simple as that. If you think that Green Lantern is a Space Opera you sir are a fucking moron."
Yes, the story about the magical green rings that run on willpower and yellow space bugs that are living embodiments of fear (that also feed on fear - wrap your head around that one) and the giant talking planet and big-headed blue aliens who have lived forever is clearly too deep and complex for me. Oh, and by the way, smartypants - something can still be a space opera AND be deep and complex. I just don't think Green Lantern is all that friggin' deep.
"Its your blog so fucking what had you not started sucking on the tits on Noah Antwiler. You would have been canned after the first shows you had."
Hey, aren't you that other anonymous guy from a few months back who had some beef with Spoony that I didn't care about? I can't tell, but you sound as dumb as he was when you throw around nonsense like that.
As for why it matters if it's my blog or not, welcome to the internet - this is my blog, where I can approve or reject your comments, as I stated. I can choose not to play anymore... mostly you're starting to bore me.
"Hey what happend to that chick with the goggles. Did she refuse to take someones load in here mouth because she has self respect? "
Well, I sincerely doubt that was the reason, but you can feel free to ask her. She's on twitter. Then again, I'd love to hear about what you think happens at the TGWTG get-togethers... oh, wait, no I don't, since I'm actually there and I know exactly what happens. I'm sorry, did you have some kind of point?
"So come meet me in persons I will teach you actual life skills no just sitting in front of a camera."
Yeah, you really are sounding like that guy. All this "life skills" stuff. Funny how my sitting in front of a camera is still taxed and yet I have more than enough money to live on. Oh, the wonders of new media.
As for meeting you, I would love to... wait, no I wouldn't. It's no fun having to deal with stupid people in real life. It IS fun to deal with them over the internet.
"The only reason people think I am an idiot is well because.... There your fucking moronic inbred fans that eat your shit up."
Yeeaaah, I'm going to start rejecting your messages now. Trying to throw insults against me is fine? Throwing them at my fans, though... that's a no no around here.
"Face it you had to do this for a living because you could never work a real job. Before you even say what you do is real job shut the fuck up. Someone with a digital camera and 30 bucks can do what you do."
Then why the hell don't you do it? If it's so easy, it'd probably make you happier than whatever the hell you do now. You seem so full of rage and bitterness about your life that you need to lash out at others.
But, whatever. Bored now.
I never know why trolls try to be preachy yet have incredibly terrible grammar. Well I know why, but it surprises me every time
RE: Meister LI
Hey, what part of Ireland are you in? I'm in Cork, and there's a (well known) place called Other Realms in Paul Street that's pretty good. Guessing you're not in Cork, as you'd probably know this lol
I haven't heard anybody say anything so dumb since the day I walked up to Spoony and told him why I can't walk up to Spoony and talk to him.
"I myself am nervous about the reboot. I admit to not knowing much about comics, but I know enough to start a discussion and at least hold my own. I fear that they'll change the mythos I'm familiar with for the sake of the "new demographic"."
It's just an odd idea - they should be attempting to appeal to EVERYONE with a wide variety of titles. Bye exclusively going after men of a certain age group, they're effectively saying that 50% of the population is irrelevant to them.
"O.O And...wow. Linkara, I apologize for that troll."
LOL, no need to apologize for them. They are to be pitied. ^_^
"BTW, you remember me? You gave me writing advice on Deviantart. I'm working on a novel now! ^^ If I ever get it published, I'll use it to smash that troll's nonexistant brain in for ya."
Well, I wish you the best of luck with it, Kaylee!
Trolls are scum, you have a space ship. Spaceships automatically pwn.
Great review btw, from a not-too-sci-fi-fan-person (I know that made no sense) it was pretty awesome!
what is with this guy, seems he has a butthurt for new media careers in general " if the government collapses tomorrow how is your amazing ability to review comics and...." mumble mumble ahem "...going to help you?"
you realize that can be said about a LOT of jobs "if the government collapses tomorrow how is your amazing ability to type TPS reports going to help you?"
"if the government collapses tomorrow how is your amazing ability to deliver pizzas going to help you?"
yeah I've made attempts to do what Linkara does, it is indeed not as easy as it looks other than the digital camera and 30 bucks you gotta have stuff like....personality and creativity and a friggin ability to act!
ultimately however who cares if you don't consider what he does to be enough of a real job for you, he makes enough money to live on, it's by that definition a job
going by your earlier post "You know Bait like what you use in hunting and fishing. Two things I now you or anyone else on Channel Awesome can't do"
so friggin what? I've hunted and fished, I CAN hunt and fish if I so chose, but they are IMO a couple of the most boring as hell activities you can do, I'd rather waste my time doing other stuff I find fun than waste my time hunting or fishing, but I'm guessing you fancy yourself a testosterone dripping mans man who can live off the land like some second coming of Ted Kaczynski (where you just come across as some ITG to everyone else)
Linkara if you consider the matter of this asshat finished and just wanna end the thread feel free to reject this post, just typing it out is plenty cathartic for me
I've never really been much of a comic book reader but I did grow up on the DC Animated Universe and so I am a little biased towards them. I always had the impression that DC had the more memorable characters and Marvel had the better story telling/continuity editing. But this is just an impression I got and as I've already said, I'm not really enough of a comic reader to state this as an honest educated opinion.
"I've never really been much of a comic book reader but I did grow up on the DC Animated Universe and so I am a little biased towards them. I always had the impression that DC had the more memorable characters and Marvel had the better story telling/continuity editing. But this is just an impression I got and as I've already said, I'm not really enough of a comic reader to state this as an honest educated opinion."
Well, for me, I always saw the difference as one of the general idea behind them - Marvel heroes are people you can identify with. DC heroes are people you look up to. Both strategies are equally valid, I just tend to prefer people to look up to more.
As for the troll,
seriously, are they kidding, they can't mean that all serious. I mean, how much time did they just spend in front of a computer (instead of doing their "real skills" thing), complaining about a show they don't watch, while essentially being pointless - as for example in claiming there'd be DC fans here, while having one's comic mentioned here is nothing to brag about, it's about bad comics.
Sigh, either way that troll is jus acting stupid on purpose or they are easily entertained by their own work, while having a low attention span, either way - sad.
Now, on the discussion. Actually I was a bit afraid myself about what consequences it could have if digital comics get more and more common, but, I have to admit, your arguments make sense. Except of the part where collectors will face more difficulties in future to find a certain comic in dead tree format.
Anyhow, to support your point, I can tell about a Science Fiction series running here since some decades that now has a digital version since some years, less in price and appearing even before the printed version and still the later sells better. I guess it is just as simple - a company offering something does not make customers automatically react as hoped/feared.
Wow! All I can say is...WOW! I've had a few trolls on my blog before, but never THAT bad! I can't believe half the stuff he was saying about you, your fans, and your co-workers on TGWTG.com. What a douche.
I too lean more towards DC. I like the heroes better. Does that make me a fanboy? No. I don't think that guy even knows what a fanboy is. In fact, I would say HE'S a fanboy of yours Linkara. Think about it. He obviously watches everything you make and write close enough to come up with bull crap like that! Crazy!
Keep up the good work, Linkara. AT4W is very enjoyable!
Okay, that makes sense to me. When you say that "DC heroes are people to look up to" that explains to me why I got the impression that DC has the better characters. They're set up to be virtuous and so they better fit my model of a heroic ideal. Anyway thanks for answering my question.
Wow... I just read through all that pointless garbage, and needless to say, the antagonist (or troll, whatever) was thoroughly thrashed, moreso really by his own comments than your replies, Linkara.
As for the DCU reboot, I can't honestly say whether I'm currently dreading it or anticipating it, more that I'm going to simply ride the wave here, and I might look into some issues from it when I'm getting ready for Friday Night Magic at my local comic/hobby shop.
I kind of fell out of favor with extensively collecting trades and single issues back in the craze days of Pokémon and the like, but it's still going to be worth a look for me, even though I missed the majority of the continuity right beforehand, so I'll have to learn what went out the window from sources like right here on AT4W.
Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on it.
♠ Deuces.
It was fun just listening to you 2 how things are rolling in the comic related culture. Thanks for reminding me of the Grayson trailer, it was good cheesy fun. =)
My thoughts on the DC reboot is that I’m glad that they’ll still continue the Green Lantern & Jonah Hex mythos the way they are but in different setting due to the changes of the universe(their my favorite Space-Opera and Western in comics), I’m more than happy that Jamie Reyes and the JLI get their series back (why isn’t he a member?!), I’m unsure about Starfire and Harley Quinn’s new status, and I’m very disappointed that Secret Six is cancelled(http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/)and the approach of making every superhero single is STUPID(particularly the Flash family; Sorry, I prefer Wally West as a monogamous father). I’ll just hope things will stay decent despite the change.:I
I’m sorry that Troll gave ya grief, but on the other hand I had a ball reading you putting that twerp in its place. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ll applaud you with silliness: “GO Zeo Ranger White; Linkara!! Defend AT4W from the demonic parasites know as Internet-Trolls!” xD
Awesome job, Linkara. You are a 2 among 0s and 1s. Love your stuff.
- Tom Badguy
geekjuicemedia.com
WoW, really, he calls you a moron? Does he read what he writes, it was full of mistakes.
I'm a french Canadian & I write better than him.
Anyway, just wanted its a nice podcast Linkara.Keep up the good workI really liker your show. It's fun to see comics I read when i was younger sometimes.
Cheers!!
Oh lol on elast thing about that Troll Dude earlier "I mean you are just a Micro Celebrity that no one and I mean no one gives a fuck about" ...
Doesn't sound that bad. At least it has the word celebrity in it. Better than being an illiterate douche fag like that dude ...
Cheers ... again !!!
XD
I Don't Mind As Long As Long As The Stories Are Good, I'm Just Happy There's Gonna Be A New Hawkman Series, And Also Some Of The New Green Lantern Comics Sound Interesting.
Linkara wrote...
In the end, it always is going to come down to how it's written. Just because characters have histories behind them doesn't mean that those older stories are REQUIRED reading. It's like how a character in a TV show has their own backstory, has had events happen to them that we haven't seen. As long as the CURRENT story is good, with a character's own arc within the story itself, then a reboot should never be necessary.
I totally agree with this. For example I'm a huge Spider-Man fan. I've actually read every issue. (Well, there are a couple miniseries I missed, but whatever).
Anyway my point is I have a good friend who is also a big Spidey fan but he only read the first two or three years worth from the first couple of Essential volumes and jumped onto series around Dark Reign and #600.
Anyway, my point is we can both talk about it and get excited about it on the same level because even though it's nice to have and I'm glad I read it all, one doesn't need to have read all 665 prior issues to read Spider Island.
As for all that fanboy talk.
I really don't get militant fanboyism like that. Sure I understand someone prefering one over the other for whatever reason. Even taking jabs at the one you dislike is acceptable. But getting up in arms when it looks like someone might possibly disagree with you and accusing them of fanboyism. Why?
When you get right down to it, Marvel and DC have been in business around the same length of time in the same medium in the same genre. Yes there are differences but if you like one it stands to reason you'll like the other. It's all superhero comic books, regardless of whose watermark is on the cover.
For example I happen to lean towards Marvel because, as I've said, I'm a big Spider-Man fan. So I'm going to be attracted to the one with my favorite character, and the one I'm more familiar with. That doesn't mean I hate DC. Hell, I love Batman, Superman, Green Lantern, etc. I haven't read much, sure, but I definitely don't hate any of them.
It's the exact same thing with console fanboys. I happen to prefer Nintendo because they have Mario and Zelda. Someone else might prefer PS3 or XBOX because they have higher end graphics or more gritty realistic first person shooters (which I'm not a fan of). But it's all still video games there's no need for all the hate.
I guess when it comes down to it some people would rather draw lines in the sand and fight and argue rather than use these various forms of entertainment to, well, entertain themselves.
"Well, for me, I always saw the difference as one of the general idea behind them - Marvel heroes are people you can identify with. DC heroes are people you look up to. Both strategies are equally valid, I just tend to prefer people to look up to more."
I never looked at it this way before, I am so glad that I made it through the troll to see that. Learn something new everyday.
I have high hopes for some of the reboot titles coming out, Nightwing and Teen Titans in particular. My biggest concern is that DC seems to constantly use the reboot as a fix to try to solve problems. Is that statement accurate? Growing up it seemed that DC was constantly rewriting origins or resetting the universe, should i be worried about that if this new reboot doesn't work as well as they hoped?
Thank you for all the work you do, I always look forward to seeing the results of your work.
I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to the reboot. Not that I haven't loved DC since
*cougholdfartcough* the seventies, but I'm interested in seeing what stories and ideas repeat in new and interesting ways. It happened after Crisis on Infinite Earths and, to a lesser degree IMNSHO, after the other Crises in between that and Final Crisis. Major storylines, especially the largest themes in the mythologies of the characters, repeat themselves in broad strokes, but the details change every time. And that's not at all a bad thing, I think -- I find it really interesting to see what new spins are going to be put on the old stories.
And yeah, I'll be really happy to watch a few storylines die the deaths they need to (Cry For Justice/Rise Of Arsenal).
And, by the way, everyone at Channel Awesome lives up to the name.
Quoth Linkara:
"By exclusively going after men of a certain age group, they're effectively saying that 50% of the population is irrelevant to them."
Simplification.
(besides 'men of a certain age group' accounting for far less than 50%)
They're aiming at one (perceived) demographic; all 52 comics look like they're aimed at people with the same tastes. (Okay, that's a generalisation.)
Anyway, the net result is, there is not one of the new titles that interests me. I doubt I'll end up picking any up.
Interesting discussion. I make a point of supporting my local comic stores, buying things there instead of Amazon, but if the major comic companies ever get their digital act together (full back catalog, inexpensive issues, and maybe even throw in a cheap "rental" option for comics I suspect I'll only ever want to read once) I will switch over in a heartbeat.
It's not just a cost issue, it's a space issue. I recently cleared off two feet of horizontal bookshelf space by getting rid of a ton of old trades. I liked them, I didn't regret buying them, but in all honesty I didn't know if I'd ever go back and read them again. Better to donate them to the library, make more room, and have one less box to pack next time I move.
I have never been much of a comic guy. Well American comic guy. I usually read mangas.I tried when I was younger but they were either boring or I didn't get what they were talking about.In all my young life I have read maybe ten comics give or take and most of them were Batman. Mostly it was the fact that there was to much back story and events I didn't know took place. A lot of the things I know now for events in comics came form watching your reviews, a guy I know in a comic shop and the net. I know somethings like Dick Grayson being the new Batman but I didn't know until the guy in the comic shop told me that the new Robin was Bruce Wayne's kid. So I get the Idea just not the full picture.If that dose not make sense to you I'm sorry. I'm not use to writing comments like these.From your reviews even they are bad comics you got me a bit more interested in comics. It took me sometime but I went and tried again. If a bad comic got me interested then a good or OK comic should be great. Well I digitally got and read my first Green Lantern comic from comixology. Well sort of it was the history of the green, yellow, blue, red etc and they're powers. I liked it. When I read that I was shocked of other Lanterns. I sadly only thought there were only 3 Green, Yellow and Black. Black only because of the blackest night series I knew form the comic guy and with black lantern Spoony. I'm mostly a DC fan so I went that way in buying for now.I wanted to start slow so I asked the guy I knew and some people in the comic and they for one reason or an other to try Power Girl and Batman Beyond. I read some and I like them. I was going to try to get 52 because you said it was good and I wanted to give it a shot but that when I heard they were going to reboot or relaunch all the comics. at first I didn't really get.When I did get it I understood that meant that almost every comic that came out in the last ten years or so will be worthless.To me story and characters come first and artwork and action are good but not that important to me.I was a little sad at first because I really wanted to get other comics.Then I realized that if they started all over again I don't have to worry about back story anymore. I can start new. As for older comics I can still get the else world stuff. Just a few days ago I got all of All Star Super Man. I read two so far and I think it's good. I do feel bad about that a lot of people will have to start over and that the story lines the like are canceled. Me it's bitter sweet good that I get to start from I somewhat new beginning and bad for the people that with canceled and story's that do mean anything anymore and me for not being able to fully enjoy the comics as well. I took the plunge and paid for all 52 comics that are coming out. Got a great deal to. I will read them all and see witch ones I like. I know it a bit much, but what the hell. I'm sorry for just all the writing I did but I just wanted to say all that. I'm still a little confuse. I maybe wrong about this but from what I understand they still say that some of the story lines still hold up. Like the new Batgirl comic is Barbara Gordon but the The Killing Joke still happened. So did the ever say when he new story line start and when the old does not matter. Like did 52 still happen or countdown and so on.I really would like some feed on that. If I'm wrong about something please tell me. Well that's all I say for now. Keep up the good work Lewis and many good years to come.
Linkara, I would've blocked him when he insulted your girlfriend. That's no good...and you're right,it's no fun dealing with idiots in real life. I work in a call center where it is my job to listen to insults, 'jive talk', things that make no sense, and grammar that would make your hair stand on end...maybe even fall out. It's a job though. And I seriously think that...thing...has too much time on his hands or else he wouldn't have kept it up.
Question though:Are you much of a Starjammers fan? Not the current incarnation, but the former that started with Scott Summers' father? And would you consider that space opera or space adventure akin to Star Wars/Star Trek?
Anyway, I'm not much of a DC reader so maybe it would be good for me.^_^...I can start fresh in the NEW NEW IMPROVED NEW DC Universe...with car freshener!
Wow when I saw my comment I didn't think it was that long. Sorry for that and for all the misspellings. I'll try to keep it shorter next time.
I generally don't care for neither Marvel, nor DC (whether comics, animated series or whatever). But I did watch a few episodes of various animated series from time to time (mostly when I was bored and had nothing else to watch).
I did have more of a tendency to enjoy DC stuff than Marvel stuff however:
- With DC, the heroes were pretty incredible and inspiring while sometimes being humorous. I also found their environment to be more "smart", complicated and well-developed over time.
- With Marvel however, I found the "heroes" to act more like big crybabies than actual heroes, and for the environment to be full of negative stereotypes of society (ex.: humans are selfish, idiotic, judgmental, greedy and etc.).
If you compare, lets say, Teen Titans with X-men:
- In the world of X-men, the humans are generally the same negative stereotype no matter what the hell the X-men do! And the mutants just keep complaining and harping on that fact ("no-one understands us", "why can they see that we're allies", blah, blah, blah, waa, waa, waa...) while still desperately trying to change everyone's minds about mutants by constantly saving people in need.
- When you look at the Teen Titans however, the world tends to be more of a vast and complex place with what seem to be more of an ever-changing plot (as opposed to Marvel, which seems to harp of the past A LOT and keep repeating the same patterns/stereotypes). I get the feeling that everyone actually learns and grows over time as characters and, even though they've shown deep personal problems, they've actually come to surpass them and end-up stronger than ever.
My favorite DC characters has got to be Teen Titans. I remember watching such awesome episodes, as when:
- Cyborg learned that, even though a large part of himself is a robot, which means he can't improve in that aspect (without upgrades anyways...) and he can potentially be controlled through technological means, he's also a human, which makes him able to improve over time (perhaps in a slower and more difficult manner, but still...) and to resist any sort of technological control.
- Raven spent practically her entire life practicing to control her emotions (which trigger and manifest her powers). She always knew, and eventually had to face, the fact that she's a portal to her powerful and demon-like father. When her prophecy came to be, she first felt overwhelmed and powerless against her father, but then she realized that she's always had her own inner power that her father could never take away.
To me, the reboot doesn't really bother me, just as long as there is great stories. Although I understand why many are not interested in it because it feels like a really great show gets cancelled before it ties up all loose ends(And God knows how many times that has happen).
The one thing I'm really glad about the reboot(and I know I'm going to get a lot of hate from it) is Babs being Batgirl again. It's not that I don't like her as Oracle, in fact I love Barbara Gorden as a whole(She's one of my all-time favorite superheroes and my favorite female hero of all) , it's just that growing up watching the 1960s show, the numerous animated shows(Which I still watch), and the comics I bought as a kid(Granted they were based on the 90s animated series universe) cemented the idea that she is Batgirl(Cassandra is too violent for me and Steph I really enjoy, sad the series is ending since it was one of my favorites to read, but her personality reminded me too much of Babs). My first time seeing her as Oracle was in the AWFUL Birds of Prey show back in the early 2000s and I didn't like how she was(From what I remember, at times she whines about being in a wheelchair. I probably need to watch it again to confirm it but I don't want to relieve the awfulness). Thankfully, I read Gail Simone's run of Birds of Prey, which got me to read DC comics on a regular basis(I'm more of a Marvel fan) and it is light-years better than the show.
As for the other series, well I'm getting all the 52 #1 issues(There is a special sale at tfaw.com for pre-ordering them) but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to follow the Hawk and Dove series since Rob Liefeld is doing the art. What ever interest me the most, I'll follow.
If Josh Hadley needs a kid-friendly comic for his niece with Batgirl I recommend the Tiny Titans comics. She(Babs) is one of the main characters in the series and in one of the upcoming issues will be about all the Batgirls.
Really, I must stand-up in defense of Garth Ennis
Many of his haters (and even fans) can only see the extreme violence and rape-comedy in his works, but this is not what his work is about.
The man can write great characters. Very few comic writers nowadays show as much compassion and understanding in their stories as Ennis does.
Just as much as he likes to play over-the-top violence for the laughs, he can as well show it's consequences in heart-wrenching details.
His run on Nick Fury is a good example. When at the end of the first story arc, despite his best efforts and all the sacrifices, he fails to prevent an international crisis, the following scenes of US troops gleefully slaughtering civilians is one of the most horrific and tragic scenes I saw in a mainstream American comic in a while.
For each rape and bestiality joke he makes, Ennis also manages to make really touching moments, and compelling character arcs.
That's the true reason why Preacher is so popular.
Not the weirdness and brutality, but the characters and characterization.
Preacher, Hitman, Nick Fury, even the Punisher, all of them manage to have likable, or at least memorable characters in them.
I have the suspicion that many of his critics only ever read outtakes from his works
Hey Linkara, don't you think it's time for your pull list? I'd love to hear what you have to say
I think the sad thing is that both DC and Marval don't recall what it is that sells comics anymore...
I live in Russia, and the market for comic books here is ridicuolously small. We get some trade hardcovers, but only of marvel stuff for some reason. No ongoings for us russian fans who love comic books and want to read them. Buying them on amazon.com makes each issue cost about $15 beacause of the delivery - and that's a bit pricey for a comic book. So being able to buy and read comics online with my iPad has really made thing so much easier (and also legal)
"The only reason people think I am an idiot is well because.... There your fucking moronic inbred fans that eat your shit up."
"Yeeaaah, I'm going to start rejecting your messages now. Trying to throw insults against me is fine? Throwing them at my fans, though... that's a no no around here."
Linkara, You're my personal hero right now. Seriously, you made my day. Thank you :)
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