Listen to the jive, if you are un-square!
Monday, November 19, 2012
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145 comments:
For the record, I love it when you complain about the DC Reboot.
Learning about that poll was both funny and just makes me despise DC even more for shutting us out. Are they actually surprised that we didn't enjoy them crapping all over their legacy by saying that a good percent of it is no longer canon?!
Me, I just pretend that Flashpoint never happened, the JSA were around in WWII, the Teen Titans still have their full history, and Powergirl is back to normal.
I'd put Aquaman up on that list of recommendations myself since it knows what it wants to be, but beggars can't be choosers.
I myself understand what it feels like to have your favorite team crapped on. My absolute favorite team is the JSA and I hate how they were treated even before the reboot. I hated the team split of having the younger members form their own team without their mentors breathing down their necks. (SOUND FRAKKING FAMILIAR?!) I hated Magog for insulting the older members of the team and how it seemed that Geoff Johns' concluding story arc before he left, where he basically had the older members bring everyone they were thinking of cutting back because they considered them family and family does not turn its back on family, was undone by it. I hated Alan Scott's new outfit and I hated how his death was not treated with a grand sendoff like it deserved. I am glad James Robinson is bringing the characters back, but they are not the same (though I actually like their new costumes). Sorry for the rant.
On the review itself: When I look at Mr. Twister's outfit, I do not think "Tornado based Supervillain" I think some guy called, "The Patriot" or something. Thanks for shooting down every Aquaman joke ever. There is a reason he is one of my favorite heroes ever. Seriously people, read the new comic. Oh, the dialogue, oh, the dialogue. "Jive" I have no clue what the hell that means. Music? I dunno. The whale thing is awesome. "Useless" my ass. I will conclude my long rambling by saying this: Review every Scott Lobdell written comic of the Nu 52. Destroy them.
funnily enough, today I ordered the Ravagers stuff, as well as the 2 issues of Phantom Stranger (1st of which apparently has the first appearence of Raven in the new 52)
even more funnily enough, the Culling Teen Titans/Legion Lost/Superboy collected hardback is out next Febuary - so about the time of the retrospective
How come you haven't done Red Hood and the Outlaws yet?
Also, we ALL love Aquaman, linkara. All the haters were killed in the Nerd Wars of 2011
You liked Danny Chase? Before or after he became Phantasm?
Louis, pretty sure those are turtle-shells, not grenades.
Ahh 1960's and the goofy comic book plots which in no way represented the reality of those times. This is exacly why comic books used to be awesome.
Posting before I forget: If you're reviewing the Culling, be sure to point out how Artemis is a really popular character in the cartoon Young Justice, and their way of synergy of putting her into the comics is to KILL HER IN THE SAME COMIC SHE DEBUTS IN.
That is a criminally boneheaded move, especially when the character is gaining a huge following from the show.
Mr. Twister went on to make his own movie. Unfortunately, Warner Bros. decided to cut him out of the final draft of "Twister" and put Helen Hunt and Bill Paxton as the stars. Mr. Twister blames his removal as the reason it flopped.
"Hey! Leave my main man Aqualad alone! He is NOT a freaky fish guy!" - Maiko
I thought those were turtle shells on the staff in on the cover, rather than grenades. It fits more with his WTF apparel.
We could use Whales! WHAAAAAALES!!!!!!
"You liked Danny Chase? Before or after he became Phantasm?"
Both. Danny Chase is my favorite character.
Interesting, I never saw that poll, and I do visit the DC site regularly (mostly for the schedules)
Still, looking at the sales numbers, it's very likely that the people on the site are rally just a vocal minority (and that the majority of readers does in fact not visit the site)
Also, em I the only one who does not give a damn about Barbara Gordon? She, allong with Dick Grayson and Tim Drake are WAY too over-exposed for my liking. Please, more Cassandra Cain, Jason Todd, and Damian, THOSE are characters that DESERVE attention.
Thanks for standing-up for Aquaman. Seriously, why are Family Guy and Robot Chicken so adamant about destroying any chance of Aquaman getting any recognition whatsoever, based on a joke that hasn't been topical since the 70s?
And people are actually taking it serious! Rotten Tomatoes made an article a few months back, which can essentially be summed up to "please, never make an Aquaman movie, it'll be a waste of time, OMG, he's so lame, he doesn't even deserve to exist" , essentially using Family Guy and Robot Chicken sketches as evidence. And no, it was NOT a joke article.
The sad thing is that more people watch those shows than read comics. No matter what goes on in the comics, the public's opinion will always be based on the popular movies and TV shows, and in their eyes, those are the real canon
I'm surprised you did not do a reference to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
Robin also has another power seen used in this comic, one passed-on by his mentor
the "Batman immunity"
It means that despite not having any superpowers, he's capable of succeeding in impossible odds, purely thanks to his Marry-Sue'ness
You're right, Aquaman is an awesome super hero.
The lamest super heroes from the Super Friends cartoon, in my mind, are the Wonder Twins. One is a lamer version of Beast Boy and the other turns into a bucket of water, and they both have to be within arms length of each other to activate their powers.
Not sure if it's the lighting or what, but your nose looks a bit red. You're not catching something, are you? If you are, feel better soon!
DCU really did that with the poll? Lame.
I'm looking forward to Feb/March if you're going to do Teen Titans.
Mister Twister looks... hilariously stupid. Just looking at the cover made me laugh out loud. Good ol' 1960s villain fashion?
Maybe it's just me, but the way that guys said "teen-age problem" kind of came off as though he were talking about pests/bugs and they needed to be taken out with Raid. It doesn't help that one kid has a shirt that has "Bugs" on the back of it.
Hey, I just watched that Star Trek episode recently! Gotta love Spock.
No one in that city has cellars? Not even for storage? What about thunderstorms, surely they get those, right? That's a bit confusing.
Goat Island has dung beetles on it? I thought it would be snakes...
Liked the review overall, though the title card with no commercial seemed kind of awkward. It just kind of showed up and stayed there for a few seconds. I don't know if a humorous quip would have helped with that or not.
Also Linkara, if you haven't seen this (The guy who mentioned Young Justice reminded me of this)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnpK6zZnEw
"I will conclude my long rambling by saying this: Review every Scott Lobdell written comic of the Nu 52. Destroy them."
Actually, the only Lobdell title I dislike is Teen Titans, mostly for being boring as hell (alto I will get the "Death of the Family" tie-in)
Red Hood and the Outlaws is in my opinion one of the best comic titles on the American market, period - the characters are just WAY too lovable to not like the series, they just seem more human than other Superheroes out there
Also, Superman only became readable after Lobdell took over. I DESPISED the previous run, but now it has actually become readable
yeah,
I'd also like to add some more recommendations
Action Comics, Animal Man, Dial H, Earth 2, Stormwatch, Swamp Thing, Batman and Robin, Suicide Squad, Batwoman, Supergirl, Sword of Sorcery, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Batman Incorporated, I Vampire, Justice League Dark, Lot, Frankenstein, and Superman Family Adventures
what happened to your nose?
10:00 Bah, the hatton corner arm of the teenage hive mind was merely malfunctioning. It soon rejoined us in glorious unity.
11:25 Honestly, having read some silver-age batman comics, setting up a PO box for fanmail sounds perfectly in character. There's probably a story about it coming alive and becoming a superhero of its own.
15:30 Dammit Robin. Just because teenagers use slang, doesn't mean we can't speak normally.
17:00 Remember, this a story about the battle between people of different ages. They didn't need to fit the entire town in the vault, just the people that were roughly the same age as the mayor!
What? It's no more stupid than their apparent conflict with the entirety of teendom.
18:20 So, when will the dread cupig appear as a character on your show?
21:40 Yes, a lasso sounds like the perfect weapon! It's not like there were heavy shovels or stones lying around or anything.
22:31 Okay, I get the staff as part of his outfit. Combined with the turtle-shells on his staff and the feathers, they form a nice standard made-up american indian package. I also get the cape in that same light. But why the hat and the hair?
Linkara I will never get tired of you raging like me over the new 52. Yes there is some good titles. They are outnumber by the bad books, wasted characters not being used, characters no wants to read being used, characters not acting like, retcons that make no sense, books that were canceled that were way better. Don't get me started on stupid new costumes. Teen Titans change theirs every other issue it seemed. If this was on a scale it would be lopsidedly bad. Sorry just frustrated every week by dumb stuff. I mean green lantern corps this week is a great point.
By the way I wanted to also wish you Happy Thanksgiving this week.
Really, my only problems with you complaining about the reboot is I want to hear you talk more about the specifics rather than just the fact that there was a reboot at all.
As for your recommendations from The New 52:
Demon Knights - I liked this book, although combined with Justice League Dark, it has really made me dislike Madame Xanadu.
Batgirl - I do plan to get this book, but I've seen opposing viewpoints on it. Then again, I have a very backwards taste in stories, so maybe I'll like it anyway.
Batman - Someone lent me the fifth issue, and I've already pre-ordered the paperback.
Green Lantern books - With the exception of Red Lanterns, right? I'm a "new reader", so the one I'm interested in the most is New Guardians.
All-Star Western - Meh, don't care for westerns, but I don't doubt that it's good.
Nightwing and I, Vampire are my favorites thus far. I thought you at least liked Nightwing, so why not mention it? It would have been very suitable for today's episode.
I was hoping you would review Red Hood and the Outlaws, but The Culling works just as fine.
You said we would know what Guns and Sorcery is based on by February, so does that mean it's based on a New Teen Titans arc? Only stories I can think of are Judas Contract and Terror of Trigon.
The Topical Joke of the Week gag was great, but one I can see being overdone if you use it too often.
I waited until the end of the episode to see if you would mention the cartoon, and I was disappointed, because that show is why I care about this team and what Lobdell has done to them.
Wait, wait... so the whole thing's about adults and teenagers, right? What about children? How do they factor into this? Do you think they were secretly masterminding the whole thing to keep the teenagers and adults busy while they worked toward their own sinister goals?
Linkara, What would you do if someone at DC went through all of your episodes and made a list of your complaints and then published a run of comics where every one of your criticisms was taken into account for a year? Including the needless character death and relationship retcons?
The Episode was good but I'm hoping that Hostess sells the bakeries fast the western US states are running out of bread because most of it was made there.
Glad you finally got to use Neutro riding a whale again. Bit I can't help but wonder what happened to the twister tower when the island was moved? Did Kid Flash's construction stand up to that?
Well this was surprising I thought it was the 1st appearance of the original 4 together... I didn't realize this story existed!
I didn't know about that poll! I wonder if you were to set up that poll yourself on here or whatever you got on FaceBook and left it up for a while what the outcome would be!?
I can't wait for your deeper reviews of the New 52 stories will be like!
I think after looking at him through out the book those grenades are turtle shells, but I agree on the cover it looked like old fashion pineapple grenades from WW2!
I love old cheesy 60s era Silver Age comic dialogue but 60s era teenage slang kind of hurts to read...
Fun Fact: While watching this review I was actually eating a Hostess Strawberry Fruit Pie! But, no Twinkies though... I prefer Zingers more anyway!!
Whales pushing an island... and no original Doctor Dolittle joke? Disappointing!
A Narwhal and no use of the Narwhals Song? Also, disappointing!
Don't worry people like Aquaman more no ad aren't making fun of him anymore... Hawkman has taken his place on that in some circles.
Isn't there a villain with these same powers they could've used? Weather Wizard! He was featured on the show before I do believe?!
Kids wanting a clubhouse and not trusting adults... I'm getting a Little Rascals/Kids Next Door vibe here!
Can't wait for the Hulk episode! I don't think you've done a solo Hulk story on here yet!? And the original story of his origins are pretty goofy with the whole Rick Jones thing and the Grey Hulk and moonlight!
You think you could do a vlog about the repercussions of the DC reboot? I'd love to see your thoughts about DC trying to remove Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain from history itself.
This caused Young Justice to go on hiatus just as it was getting back into the swing of things. Apparently a civilian in the episode that was pulled was Stephanie. Who knows what could've been done with her.
you are going to love the young justice cartoon...
Way to defend Aquaman's honor... indeed, people always make fun of him, but he's really not that weak a superhero...
I like how you replaced Music with "Jive" in the credits lol.
Another great review, Linkara!
I'll admit, I'm not really a comic book person... And yet, I love your show! Your jokes, timing, delivery, and facial expressions crack me up.
(Also, your HOPR is actually tempting me to watch the show...)
BTW, how are the new Pollo bodies coming?
You like Danny Chase, Linkara?
I'm a huge TT fan too. Like you they're the group that got me reading comics (The New TT to be precise) and they're my favorite group as well.
Hope DC's staff pulls their heads out of their asses soon and get on fixing their stories.
PS Would Aquaman be useless in the Syria Desert?
Good review and for some strange reason after seeing this review and the attitudes portrayed by Robin Kid Flash and Aqualad I am immediately reminded of the Gundam(Universal Century) series alot since they have a similar adults verses teens perspective where Adults seem to cause all the problems and the teens are always in the correct(most of the time) other then that Keep up the good work.
PS: Is that a pimple on your nose?
Really liked this episode & let me give you an idea for a joke for next week when you talk about The Incredible Hulk #1's cover that it looks like you with a massive migraine after reading another issue of "MARVILLE" & it can be either at the Bruce Banner or the HULK part of the cover.
And who else thought of this song when the saw aqua lad ride in on a narwal?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc
BTW, Aqua Man gets bashed for the same reason Wonder Woman often does. Both characters are routinely paraded out for shows and comics with dumb political messages. Like instead of having wonder woman stand up for women's right in general, have her promote the idea that the sole reason for the existence of war is men. Whenever Aqua man shows up, we have to hear lectures about pollution and no one even questions how an advanced Atlantian society never makes waste of it's own, or what it does with it if it does. A story of how they manage an advanced society's waste in a different manner would be interesting. HoweverttThe Atlantians don't exist to show people better way usually, they just exist to shake a finger at us.
"Both. Danny Chase is my favorite character."
Heh then I take it you must have loved Teen Titans Games and how Wolfman had BB explain why he was so hard on him.
I agree that the new 52 is a big misfire, though i must admit I have been loving the new 52 Wonder Woman and Batman. Damn great books.
I agree that the new 52 has been a big misfire. The only titles I am reading and have been enjoying immensely are Batman and Wonder Woman.
I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with the episode, but I wanted to ask because I just found this out. Linkara, have you heard the misogynistic Tony Harris said regarding women cosplayers on facebook. If you haven't heard it, here's a link: http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2012/11/13/12/enhanced-buzz-14763-1352829052-2.jpg
So, in 1964, Mr. Twister was demanding feathers of a bird that went extinct in 1914. No wonder he wasn't paid the rent.
Oh, joy and bliss! Bob Haney's debut of the Titans. And...yeah, as much as I like Bob Haney, he couldn't write kids to save his life. I'm pretty sure Marv Wolfman shares this opinion, judging from the foreword to the New Teen Titans omnibus.
Of course, Bob did give us Mad Mod, too. But I digress.
The Danny Chase sign gave me a good little chuckle, despite the fact that I only have passing knowledge of how a lot of Titans fans hated him. I haven't gotten to his introduction yet, so I'll decide for myself.
Donna's love interest, though? No love lost for him from me. Kinda creepy.
Finalement, I found Aqualad's groupies hilarious. ^^ Even better if you've ever seen him in the cartoon.
Excellent addition to Secret Origins Month III, Mr. Cu-Pig. xD
You know what's really depressing for me in the DCnU? One of my favourite books, Frankenstein Agent of SHADE is getting cancelled cause it wasn't selling that well but Red Hood and the Outlaws as well as the new Teen Titans book keep going despite how boring they are.
I mean, monsters fighting supernatural threats! Bug assassins! War wheels! GI Robots! Leviathan graveyards! This book is getting cancelled and it's everything I love about comics! It's not fair.
On a sorta related note, why do you think Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain are getting barred? Do you buy DC's stated reason they just don't want to stuff a whole bunch of characters into the universe all at once? I'm not sure I do.
Also, fun review... I'll miss Hostess. By the way, what's with the silver age and these land deal things? I mean it feel like in almost every other issue a goddamn villain tries to take over a town or city or country through some vague stupid land grab or deal that was signed hundreds of years ago and is no doubt by now outdated. Were the writers just pissd off with their landlords and superintendants?
Narwhals: Jedi of the sea and arch enemy of Cthulu.....or so I heard. Anyways, secret origins month has been a great learning experience for me especially since I'm interested in Western comics but it's hard to find one in my country and the price of Western comics in my country are quite expensive compared to say local comics(for obvious reasons) and manga.
"I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with the episode, but I wanted to ask because I just found this out."
Yeah, watch the episode first. ^_~
Hey Linkara,
Loved the review as always. Even if I'm not a huge fan of DC. The Titans were always one of my favorites, though I got in them more due to the previous cartoon series and then transitioned to comics.
I was wondering... you always mention Danny Chase as one of your favorite Titans. But I was curious what you thought of Baby Wildebeest? He's actually my favorite Titan. And I loved the family dynamic with Pantha and Red Star.
*Proceeds to go on a Nostalgic Critic level rant about Supercry Prime and the murder of a freakin' Child and his Mother in the most graphic way possible.*
*Pants* Sorry.... sorry. It still bugs the hell out of me. And I wish that DC would have at least reintroduced the characters in the Nu52 to make up for the wretched abortion of a story that killed them.
More and more every character I actually like in DC will get used and abused or killed or written out of existance.. The above mentioned Wilde and Pantha, the death of Kid Devil, and then the wiping out of Tommy Bronson aka Wildcat Jr./Tomcat from the DC Universe cause Wildcat no longer existed in this version of the DC Universe. So feh... DC, go to hell.
The Teen Titans are my favorite DC superhero team, mostly due to the awesome cartoon. I just love the idea of teens handling big situations without the assistance or calling on adults to help them with it(Something that the Young Justice cartoon fails badly at.)
Great review!
Well said, Linkara. And GREAT JOB with the Aquaman defense!!!
I cant believe you recommend that garbage of Batgirl book over other books that are way better
really, what is exactly good about it?
its villains are pure crap with no motivations or just confusing motivations, Batgirl just whines 90% of the time, there is no angle of barbara gordon, it just keeps shoving TKJ down our throat and retcon it so now the thing it is only 2 pages long when she got shot, and it keep retconning other better stories like BY1 and Black Mirror. Gail just has No Idea how to write James Jr.
and it just continues to have Gore, mutilation and torture that would make Countdown blush, just for cheap shock and emotional value.
and finally the mother of Barb is the stupidest person i have ever seen in comics ever, mentally she has to suffer retardation or whatever the Peter Griffin suffers, she is just very stupid .
every thing about it is exploitative and thats why it sells, its offensive and its basic concept is just a prime example of the worst type of Ableism
and thats not even touching Stephanie Brown and Cass Cain
what is good on it?
About Firestorm: Dan Jurgens (and whomever wrote the #0 issue) finally has the comic back on track, with Ronnie and Jason forming the one Firestorm, and Jason in Prof. Stein's "seat". They even told their parents that they have altered superpowers and they're going to fight bad guys with it. I dropped after issue #2 but I started picking it up after #0 and noticed the very needed change.
Now if they'd just un-brat Billy Batson.
Denne Er Narkval.
Hvor Er Narkval?
Lykkkelig Liten Narkval!
Narwhals Narwhals swimming in the Ocean Causing a Commotion
Cuz they are so awesome
Narwhals Narwhals swimming in the ocean
Pretty big and pretty White
They beat a polarbear in a fight
Like an underwater Unicorn
They got a kickass facial horn!
Their the jedi's of the sea!
They stop Cthuly eating ye!
Narwhals they are Narwhals Narwhals!
Just dont let them touch your balls!
Narwhals They are narwhals!
Inventors of the Shishkebab!
Great video, as usual. I'd like to take a moment to talk about the New 52 reboot, though.
You see, the impression I've been getting, ever since Dan Didio came to power at DC in the early 2000s, was that DC editorial just wanted to be rid of ALL the old continuity and start over, but they didn't dare because they were not sure they had enough fan support (or maybe, not full support from their owners, Warner Brothers) to do it. So their efforts, like Infinite Crisis and 52, always came across half-baked and confusing. It wasn't until last year, when they finally got the go-ahead from the top brass, that they said "screw the fans who love continuity, we are starting this all over." Of course they didn't actually say it in those terms, but that's what their actions clearly show.
The sad part is that, in part thanks to their same-day on-line selling strategy, their sales are doing good enough now that they probably won't feel like they need to change their approach now. Which is why I still won't buy a DC comic, despite those once having been my favorites (yes even the goofy old ones like today's review.)
Btw Lewis, are you ever going to do an episode to specifically comment on the New 52 reboot overall? I ask because I find your reviews to be well-informed and fair, and therefore I'd rather watch yours than many other people's online.
To echo the sentiments of others above me, I enjoy seeing you shred DC's latest screw-up. (and I 'm not much of a comic guy!) And speaking of others above me, has anyone seen this parody trailer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4BjTsjgk3Lg#!
I like the idea of visiting the high school years of Batman's villains, while being completely tongue in cheek, Even if it "supposedly" takes place in the Christopher Nolan movie cannon. (I think the original idea somewhat better: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/01/11/the-gotham-high-animated-series-that-never-was/) (To Linkara) Would you watch a full series about this? And what are your feelings on seeing Harley Quinn as a teen? (btw, do you still have a crush on her?)
I love the bit with Mr. freeze, you can tell the director is having fun trolling the audience. (and the Nostalgia Critic.)
Ah, now I have something to be thankful for--a review about my favorite DC superhero team. A Happy Thanksgiving to you, sir.
"More Chores, Less Play"? Really? What is this, Sombertown? (Well, they have about the same number of black people...) Also, I'm generally not a fan of the storylines, but we need a plot featuring Cupig post-haste.
wait! wheres is the review of the crossover with the Legion and the Teen Titans of the new 52?
"wait! wheres is the review of the crossover with the Legion and the Teen Titans of the new 52?"
I HAVEN'T reviewed it yet. I said it'll probably be the first review of the New 52 that I do.
"I HAVEN'T reviewed it yet. I said it'll probably be the first review of the New 52 that I do."
Huh... I would've thought that your first New 52 review would be Red Hood and the Outlaws...
Also, really dick move by DC there. It reminds me of something similar that happened with something else... Thing is, I can't remember what that something else was...
I would think that despise is worse than hate.
First of all, I do sort of wonder if DC sort of got the idea of putting their sidekicks together thanks to Marvel's success with characters like Spidey and the Human Torch. Obviously DC had the sidekicks established before they were created, but when Marvel actually did something with teen superheroes, DC probably decided to experiment with it, thus the Teen Titans.
Second, great episode and a lot of your thoughts are well deserved on the Titans and the problems. The origin was goofy but it was cool, including the funny part with Aqualad and the whales. Though I sort of think the hamminess of the generation gap was a bit silly...but luckily this was prior to something like "Wild in the Streets"...never saw that movie but that alone sort of ends up making it's own weird comments about the generation gap by the time of the hippie era of the late 60s. And yeah, I could see Batman not get rock back then...I mean with all those British bands, he probably wished the radio had more Sinatra or something.
Finally, gonna be an interesting episode next time. The Hulk has one of the weirdest set-ups considering no one knew what to do with him even when he started out and he took a long time to really catch on; heck even Stan Lee was just throwing stuff at the wall until stuff like his encounters with the Thing and the formation of the Avengers finally solidified him. Plus there's the whole thing about Marvel's early heroes (well early Silver Age) having connections with either monsters (Thing, Hulk) or some sort of weird science (F4, Spidey, the X-Men in some respects, the Pyms...fair warning: I know you want to get to all the Avengers before the Avengers but the Pyms take up three comics themselves to get it all established!) It's only with Cap's return and the likes of Thor that Marvel really started moving more into conventional heroes...
My personal New 52 recommendations (aside from those mentioned in the video): Earth 2, Dial H, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, The Flash, Talon, and Sword of Sorcery. I also enjoyed OMAC despite no one else seeming to, but that got canceled after eight issues incomplete. And they only got around to telling all the much needed backstory for that series in an issue of DC Universe Presents. A backstory that most certainly will never be included in any trade paperback because the OMAC one with the eight main issues was already published at that point, and will probably never be updated.
Let's just say DC fails brand synergy forever. Well unless it has anything to do with the Batman books, in which case the most well-known versions of characters will prevail in the comics, come hell or high water. Lookin' at you, Batgirl. You're not even a bad comic, you just exterminated both Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain. For shame.
I'm thinking of making a video that details in all the ways DC (and Marvel to an extent) fails at brand synergy. Forever.
DC I love you, but you make it so hard.
"This caused Young Justice to go on hiatus just as it was getting back into the swing of things. Apparently a civilian in the episode that was pulled was Stephanie. Who knows what could've been done with her."
Um...no. Stephanie Brown didn't cause the hiatus. Milestone legal issues over their characters caused the hiatus.
I know Stephanie Brown fans like to feel persecuted, but her appearance in a cartoon is not the reason it's in hiatus!
For Mr. Twisters staff you sure those aren't turtle shells? It makes more sense with it being a native American staff and the animal motif.
Alright! Bring on the Hulk. He's one of my favorites . I got nothing to say about the New DC 52 Reboot. I'm not that interested,besides there are other posters here that does it for me. Yeah, the Teens vs Adult conflict was a weak reason for the future Teen Titan members to come together and stop a crime without the Why part of the equation.
One of your lines, WAY back in one of the comics in 5-panels "I am Aquaman, and I am awesome!" is one of the most quoted lines in my house. So yes, can empathize with the frustration over the hate on Aquaman that's sort of 'popular culture'.
Though him, like the Titans, I know more from the various cartoon series in the 90s and early 2000s. And I thought while his appearances weren't very frequent, I never perceived anything other than him being such a bad-ass when he was there.
I did very much enjoy this review and your bashing on the reboot isn't annoying or anything. If anything I feel bad for you since your favorite team is getting so trounced. There are days I feel lucky I'm too broke to really keep up with comics.
Was this review hard to do? Your frustration and how upset you were at the current events could really be felt, though it didn't take away from the review itself.
Is it possibly to be retroactively hurt by an event in comics? Before the cartoon Young Justice was put back on hiatus I was finally getting a chance to catch up with the series, and in cannon was baby Leanne. Seeing her made me want to get a copy of Cry for Justice just to destroy it and I'd not even read the thing. The damn thing made me instantly afraid for the character and I'd barely seen her.
Wow, that was kind of a tangent, sorry about that.
Anyway, I enjoyed the review and this is one of the first origin stories I didn't know anything about, and I really liked it.
There was a hilarious parody of this in Flash 80-Pg. #2 (1999). Wally is telling the story to Bart, who points out that Wally wasn't even born yet when people spoke like that.
I prefer to believe that the "Indian medicine cave" is a chemical-waste site for knock-off generic pharmaceuticals from India. That makes more sense.
Commenting again.
Oh,Yeah Aquaman is awesome. I didn't grew up with the 70's cartoon. I didn't think Aquaman was anything other than a Bamf thanks to the cartoons he appeared in in the 2000's. I do know a few things about the King of Atlantis. He's a good choice for a episode in the next secret origins month
"Um...no. Stephanie Brown didn't cause the hiatus. Milestone legal issues over their characters caused the hiatus."
That's not the reason either. That was all from a speculative blog where the guy who wrote it even admitted it wasn't true.
Okay, not gonna lie, your New 52 stuff is starting to sound less like an opinion and more like a knee-jerk "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER ON MY EARTH" rant. Much as I hate Superboy Prime, he's pretty much the embodiment of a Facebook, Tumblr, or Twitter user. They hate change in any form, and can't see it as anything other than negative. The fact that you don't go into detail about your dislikes for the New 52 helps support the idea that you're becoming blinded by nostalgia of the old days. I'm very curious: In specific, what is it that bothers you?
Back to the episode. As soon as I saw the adults picket signs, especially the "More Chores, Less Play", my thoughts immediately went to Kids Next Door. Only this time, not only were they writing the adults as one step away from supervillainy, the "teens" were acting more like kids than anything else.
You fool! You shouldn't have gotten yourself a supervillain name! Haven't you ignored the signs? Your name sounds like something; pretty soon the show will become just another AVGN ripoff with a sociopath host murdering characters and companies they don't like, complaining about how things were better before, and making Take Thats left and right! The show will become Atop the Forth Wall...by Cu-Pig!
I'm sorry sir you lose your right for a refund if you stay for the first ten dooms.
I got into Teen Titans briefly before the reboot. For those who don't know Damian Wayne fought with the Titans for a few issues, culminating in a crossover with Red Robin which led to Tim Drake rejoining the team. I bought the issues he was in and decided to keep reading after his appearence was over untill the reboot started.
What did you think of J, T. Krul's run Linkara?
"Okay, not gonna lie, your New 52 stuff is starting to sound less like an opinion and more like a knee-jerk "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER ON MY EARTH" rant. Much as I hate Superboy Prime, he's pretty much the embodiment of a Facebook, Tumblr, or Twitter user. They hate change in any form, and can't see it as anything other than negative. The fact that you don't go into detail about your dislikes for the New 52 helps support the idea that you're becoming blinded by nostalgia of the old days. I'm very curious: In specific, what is it that bothers you?"
Where to begin, hmmm?
-The Amazon history and society has been altered so that they are now a society based on rape, murder, and slavery. No, not that it happened to them, but rather they are rapists, murderers, and slavers.
-Wonder Woman lacks compassion.
-In fact, a general lack of compassion seems to permeate throughout the DCU, from Superman's early days (which admittedly improved in other Superman stories not taking place "five years ago") to Starfire's rather emotionless reactions to the world or just general pissed off-ness (and yes, I read the first 9 damn issues of that stupid-ass book. IT DOESN'T GET BETTER.) to Blue Beetle's revised origin where the scarab forced Jaime to do terrible, HORRIBLE things that previously he would have ripped the goddamn thing from his spine through sheer force of will to prevent himself from doing to Billy Batson no longer being a sweet, innocent kid but instead a jackass thief.
-DC editorial's refusal to allow Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain to have any place in the rebooted universe.
-The disregarding of superhero history, including the golden age of heroes and the Justice Society characters, with the rich history that accompanies that.
-The inability to write out a consistent timeline of events. If I were to go back from A to B to C in terms of what events in the DCU lead to what and the impact that they had on storylines that DO seem to be in-continuity, it's completely inconsistent. Green Lantern is the most striking example of this - the Guardians of the Universe turning evil after the events of War of the Green Lanterns, which was a result of Brightest Day and Blackest Night, which in turn came about from the War of Light, which in turn came from the Sinestro Corps. War, which happened after Hal Jordan's resurrection, resulting from his time as the Spectre, his death during the events of Final Night and his time as Parallax during Zero Hour, Hal Jordan's turn to evil after the events of the Death of Superman, which involved the Justice League International, and of course all of those events I listed included characters that showed up in larger stories from even longer ago, including AND NECESSITATING characters like the Anti-Monitor, who came from Crisis on Infinite Earths!
You see what I'm getting at there? What the hell happened and didn't happen? And in only FIVE YEARS?
-The entire history of the Teen Titans has been erased. Scott Lobdell can claim some bullcrap like "they still hung out but didn't call themselves Titans" except their character histories are radically different, from Cyborg being a founding member of the JLA to Nightwing no longer having the events in the Titans that made him change from Robin to Nightwing, Raven as a character is only emerging NOW, etc.
-Wally West and Donna Troi are also characters nowhere to be seen anywhere in this history and it's unlikely they exist at all here.
-Lian Harper was likely never born, given the state Roy Harper was in and even moreso Roy Harper was never Green Arrow's sidekick, instead being some jackass thief who stole Green Arrow's tech. They essentially turned him into Jason Todd trying to steal the wheels off the batmobile. Because one Jason Todd wasn't enough.
-While I do ENJOY the Batgirl book, the decision to change her from Oracle and, in fact, seemingly erase her entire time as Oracle is teeth-grindingly awful, especially in that it removes diversity within the DCU of a woman who is still in top physical form AND overcame her problems despite being confined to a wheelchair.
These are just the things off the top of my head. Give me more time and I'll give you more that is horrible with this reboot.
"What did you think of J, T. Krul's run Linkara?"
Pretty damn good and a real shame that it was cut so short. He was really getting into his groove by that point and the 100th issue was really enjoyable. Made me sad that we were losing the book.
Sadly this incarnation of the Titans is my intro to them outside of the animated series. I intend to read the Technis Imperative (as soon as I can find a copy) and I'm always looking for recommendations on trades containing good runs on the Titans (any takers?). Regarding the reboot...I like and dislike it. I FRIGGIN LOVE Snyder's Batman, and I really like Demon Knights, Nightwing, and Justice League Dark. But I do HATE practically every retcon this reboot has introduced such as the Tim Drake and Jason Todd changes.
Between Marvel pandering to movie-goers in their comics, and DC wiping out entire histories and characters on a whim, it really seems that the big 2 are giving their long-time fans the middle finger.
You forgot one important fact about aquaman, one fact
Most people forget, aquaman lives in water and can speak to fish, which means he can talk to dolphins,
And who is friends with aquaman who comes from outer space, loves dolphins, and beat the ever loving hell out of superman through shear physical prowess?
Aquaman is the ONLY super hero to be friends with Lobo.
Course that said i dont know whats been going on with him in the series past "Reign in hell", where he and estrange the demon are suddenly No longer friends, still cant figure that one out
Hey linkara great video, even tho i know little about the titans over all i found this video very enjoyable.
Just wanted to point something out tho, there is no such thing as an under water tornado tho im not too big on the oceanic side of atmospheric science there are defiantly vortices such as a gyre but non that would be classifiable as a tornado due to it not being created by convection.
This point aside tho i liked the video and it helped me learn a bit more not to mention i just really want to look into titans but never have.
@ Linkara I would like to add one thing to the list
- The change to Mr. Freeze so that now he was not only never married to Nora but had never even met her before she was put into her current state, changing him from a man driven by the pain of losing his wife and the hope that one day she may be cured to merely another delusional loon.
This was actually in the news? Newspapers actually saw a need to mention the going-ons of some minor town?
And wait. WHY would the villain leave a fake note claiming the children had run out if he was going to just announce it a few hours later?
Okay, Linkara. I read your response to that one guy who was asking for more specifics on your hatred for the DCU reboot, and, despite not being into comics all that much (which is ironic, given that this show is the only TGWTG series that I consistently follow on a weekly basis), I can see why it pisses you off so much. At the same time, I can also see why some people are beginning to think it's starting to sound like, "EVERYTHING WAS BETTER ON MY EARTH!"
In my personal opinion, I think it's reached the point where, whenever you're complaining about it, you're complaining about the same things about it every time. Some of us are beginning to think, "Okay, we get the freaking point already."
So, based on what I've heard (and not just from you), Scott Lobdell is the worst of the writers involved with the New 52? Out of curiosity, what is it specifically about his output that's so bad? Or is he responsible for most of the stuff you mentioned in your response to the other guy (whose name escapes me)?
"So, based on what I've heard (and not just from you), Scott Lobdell is the worst of the writers involved with the New 52? Out of curiosity, what is it specifically about his output that's so bad? Or is he responsible for most of the stuff you mentioned in your response to the other guy (whose name escapes me)?"
Not really. Sure, he's responsible for Red Hood and the Outlaws, but honestly there's no ONE person involved in the reboot who I hate above all the others. He gets a lot of hate because they gave him a whopping FOUR books to work on and most of them were utter crap.
Given the books I've read from the 1950s, I think the word teenager was actually split into two words back then. I also remember it being hyphenated, so they're still wrong.
Hi Linkara, I would like to respond to something you said earlier in the comments:
Wonder Woman lacks compassion.
Actually, this is sort of interesting. I sort of saw that when I first read Wonder Woman, but that's not really all that true. She does have compassion in it and there's this great scene in issue 10 where Hades has gotten control of Wonder Woman's lasso of truth and has it wrapped around her. In the arc, Hades has Wondy in his clutches and to save Zola, she offered herself up to him to be married (it was a boring and dumb arc that interrupted the flow of the story, but what'd ya going to do). Anyhow, Hades asks her if she truly loves him and she says yes. Later after she escapes and he confronts her about the statement, she responds that she does love him but she loves and cares about everyone. That was just a good moment that really stuck with me.
There was also issue zero, but I won't spoil that one. You should just read it because explaining it wouldn't do the moment or even the whole issue honestly. The issue should just be read alone for being such a wonderful throughback to the Silver Age style of story tellling (even word balloons!).
Anyhow, I just thought I mention it. One last thing though, about a book I would recommend to you because you would really love it for being high and wild concept: Justice League Dark.
Now, I know you were very unimpressed or meh about the first issue and that's okay, I was too. However, Jeff Lemire (the writer for Animal Man, Frankenstein, and upcoming Green Arrow) took over in issue 9 and took the series in a more superheroic style to it. It feels like what the regular Justice League title should be.
Here, let me tell what the annual is like: We have a witch who has been alived since King Arthur time (Madame Xanadu), a princess in exile (Amythest), a vampire (Andrew Bennett), the original Harry Potter (Timonthy Hunter), a con artist (Constantine), a ghost (Deadman), a shapeshifter & government agent (Black Orchid), and Frankenstein himself jumping down from a flying house to attack a purple robed cult led by Felix Faust, a man who crawled his way back from Hell, and a mage who can through back spells at people (Dr. Mist) in order to save a backwards talking magician (Zatanna) and to claim the Books of Magic. They also have to fight a Fire Troll and Wood Mage as well.
How is that not awesome!?
...Okay, Information Geek, you have sparked my interest.
Still not liking the Amazons as rapists, murderers, and slavers, though.
Looking forward to the Titans retrospective. Are you going to be looking at just the Devin Greyson era, the one you got into, or the NTT overall? I'd kinda prefer more insight into the post 2000 era personally, as I'm familiar with a lot of the Wolfman-Perez stuff (for better and worse) but I'll be interested either way to get your view on 'em.
As to the New 52... I feel you. I actually tried to defend it to my comic buying dad back when it started, but now I feel pretty foolish. Most of the good books could've happened without the reboot perfectly easily. (I disagree strongly on the quality of the current Batgirl run, though I stopped around issue four, so perhaps it got better once I left)
I'd like to make one point about the Nu52 Titans though, the reason I didn't start reading them, and something that seems to still hold true there.
How is this a Titans book?
You brought up the lack of the Tower on twitter, but all of the classic potential thematic elements used in the book are gone. There's nothing on their relationship with the Justice League, precious little exploring the concept of legacy, nothing exploring the characters civilian lives. Do they even still have civilian lives, or are they just 'on the run'? And you can't take the 2004 book's tac, and explore the legacy of the Titans, because apparently there weren't any before (which was a retcon for the trade, showing just how badly DC 'planned' this)
Different Titans books have taken different tacs, yeah. But this one seems like a generic teen supers book with the Titans name loosely attached. You could make the first arc into an X-men plot fairly easily, just call all the superpowered characters Mutants, and you're pretty much done. Which isn't helped by the fact that the Wolfman Perez book got accused of that, and that Scott Lobdell is most notable for his X-Men work.
Okay! If you are interested enough to try reading it, start with issue 9 where the story arc begins. The annual is techincally the conclusion to the first arc.
Fair enough about the Amazons thing, just letting you know.
Also, thank you for answering back!
"-The Amazon history and society has been altered so that they are now a society based on rape, murder, and slavery. No, not that it happened to them, but rather they are rapists, murderers, and slavers."
They're... they're WHAT?!
I grew up watching the Wonder Woman series with my dad. I know it's not the same as the comics but.. that just make me feel ill.
Interesting... I haven't read a lot of comics, I only know Aquaman from the animated Justice League series.
And there he was friggin' awesome, showing almost as much badassery as Batman!
(Of course, no one ever can surpass (the goddamn) Batman... but he came pretty close.)
"They're... they're WHAT?!
I grew up watching the Wonder Woman series with my dad. I know it's not the same as the comics but.. that just make me feel ill."
Yeah, get this - apparently for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Amazons routinely find a ship floating near their waters, board it completely naked, mesmorize the men with their tantalizing nakedness, sleep with them, then murder them all and go back to the island to have children. The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves.
And if you don't get the rape part, bear in mind that sleeping with someone under false pretenses is rape, plus one has to remember that sailors of any century are not complete nimrods. A bunch of naked women board their ship demanding sex is not going to be greeted with fratboy cheering, it will be greeted with "what the hell is this sorcery?" Not to mention they show it happening through the ages, including modern times, which probably had FEMALE navy personnel or gay men who probably weren't interested, though this also makes one wonder what they did with any female PASSENGERS of ships in centuries past.
"Yeah, get this - apparently for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Amazons routinely find a ship floating near their waters, board it completely naked, mesmorize the men with their tantalizing nakedness, sleep with them, then murder them all and go back to the island to have children. The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves."
That moment, when the amazons' storyline sounds like a bad New Guardians rip off.
Dead sailor: Doesn't matter - had sex.
"Yeah, get this - apparently for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Amazons routinely find a ship floating near their waters, board it completely naked, mesmorize the men with their tantalizing nakedness, sleep with them, then murder them all and go back to the island to have children. The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves."
Ugh, that's horrible. And I completely get the rape part.
So the Amazons, who from what I know/remember, were previously slaves/enslaved themselves who once given their freedom on the island to develop culture and knowledge, who gave us the spirit of truth and compassion, are now raping, thieving assholes who enslave their own children.
Who in their right mind thought this was a good story?! Even ignoring all the history surrounding Wonder Woman and the Amazons to begin with as if you were making characters no one had ever heard of, why would anyone want to read about this?
And it's not even a different take on the concept of gender and oppression, like in that ep of Star Trek: TNG where the women were the dominate political force.
Beyond even the rape, thieving and murder, who could possibly bare a child and then be like, 'Whoops, this one has a penis, to the mines with him!' And I understand there are places where girls were considered less and sometimes murdered but it wasn't something that just happened, it wasn't how the society functioned. It sure as hell wasn't a common thing.
Good job, DC, shock and disgust the reader, way to be 'edgy' and relevant. Except not, just vile and gross.
Do you think you could possibly promote Star Trek Renegades on Kickstarter it can be made.
You said yourself that you were waiting for another good Star Trek show. Well this is it!
On the Narwhal subject.
No it couldn't the Horn couldn't be used to bore a hole.
According to the BBC series blue planet.
The Horn of a Narwhal is so weak it can't even be used for actual fighting the way say Antlers are.
Narwhals use it for a kind of fencing or that's how its described. its not really vicious full force fighting with the intention of harm more fighting just to prove superiority with no real harm done to either.
So no a Narwhal horn would probabaly break if it even tried to butt into concrete
"Yeah, get this - apparently for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Amazons routinely find a ship floating near their waters, board it completely naked, mesmorize the men with their tantalizing nakedness, sleep with them, then murder them all and go back to the island to have children. The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves."
Sounds a lot like how "real" Greek Mythology told it but they were known more for raiding a village like how actual real ancient societies did except it was men doing it.
But, still not what we like in our mainstream DCU I'd like this better as an Ultimate style version that isn't the main continuity!
I think I mention this before in the Wonder Woman review from last year actually! XD
I'm curious, how were amazons said to mate? I know there must be different versions but was there a most common explanation?
"Gareth has left a new comment on the post "Brave and the Bold #54":
I'm curious, how were amazons said to mate? I know there must be different versions but was there a most common explanation?"
There are 2-3 common types of Amazon myths:
1. The giant(10-15ft tall) muscled women that reproduce asexually and are by most myths considered to be a different species than humans.
2. The all female dominate society that work like warriors and raiders by attacking villages and ancient cities and taking in the women from these villages that are willing to join, killing off all male children, breeding with the men before killing them as well, and the children from said breeding if male are Frank Miller 300 Spartan style flung into the ocean to die and the girls are raised as warriors... wash and repeat!
3. Any mixture of those 2 above.
The sort of 4th kind the ones in the Wonder Woman comics of old are a more cleaned up PC version of them...
Also I mentioned them before but a fun fact the state of California was named for another Amazon populated legendary island!!
"In fact, a general lack of compassion seems to permeate throughout the DCU, from Superman's early days"
Yeah, sorry not buying it Linkara, Superman still displays compassion he's known for in his early days like how he helped rebuild buildings in block after damage caused during a battle or in the Action Annual where we find out he escorted an abused housewife to a centre. And you think the 5 year ago Superman in Morrison's run is too violent? Well, compared to how both Byrnes and Wolvman written the early part of Post Crisis Sups, NU52 Sups is a softie.
Thanks for the review on the first team-up of teenage superheroes that would form the basis of Teen Titans. It's so fun to see such Silver Age cheese about teenage heroes getting a second look from more contemporary people.
Somewhere in the DCU, Aquaman is watching this and instantly approves your defense of the King of the Seas.
Hearing about that Facebook poll, I'm shocked, not only over the fact that most want the old DCU back (or at least some portions of it) but DC took down the poll, as if they liked the New 52 DCU more than the previous post-Crisis one. I got a feeling they'll either re-introduce characters from the old continuity solely to kill them off in a few issues like Countdown just to see how fans will react or do something with them that will really piss off fans -- like making Wally West a teenage punk who becomes a dark mirror of The Flash or Kid Flash.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to both your retrospective on the Titans and upcoming beatdowns on the worst of New 52.
Wait a second... something just occurred to me about the Lord Vyce and Entity storylines. At the end of the fight against Vyce in the Doctor Who Classics review, 90's Kid suggests finishing Vyce off. This could be his usual trigger happy self. It could also mean that the Entity had already taken 90's Kid's place at that point, and was trying to completely eliminate the threat of Vyce. Was that intentional, or am I just reading too much into things?
"Wait a second... something just occurred to me about the Lord Vyce and Entity storylines. At the end of the fight against Vyce in the Doctor Who Classics review, 90's Kid suggests finishing Vyce off. This could be his usual trigger happy self. It could also mean that the Entity had already taken 90's Kid's place at that point, and was trying to completely eliminate the threat of Vyce. Was that intentional, or am I just reading too much into things?"
It was intentional. ^_^
Hell yea, baby! Hostess Fruit Pies!
Sorry, that's all I got. The mention of them just kinda made me lose track of everything else.
...Maybe they really do have some sort of mystical power...
As a side note, the slight Aqua Man tangent was awesome. I admit that most of my knowledge of the character came from the old Super Friends cartoons.. then later in the Super Man animated series and Justice League, but somehow I knew there was a bit more to him.
In fact, I'd likely be interested in seeing an origin of him at some point. ;)
(In response to the long list)
Okay, fair enough. You win.
Every time someone makes an "Aquaman is lame" joke, Seth MacFarlane gets an orgasm
Seriously, that man has kept that joke alive throughout an entire decade. If not for him, the appearances in Justice League and the Brave and the Bold could have finally fixed his reputation, but since Family Guy (created by Seth MacFarlane) and Robot Chicken (where Seth MacFarlane is one of the main writers) have a much larger audience, Seth made sure that Aquaman will be ridiculed for at least 20 more years
The story of this issue was indeed pretty good. At it's core, it was a super-villain kidnapping a town's children to extort it's inhabitants. Too bad the generation gap angle was so damn forced, and seriously made no sense.
Finally, I call bullshit on you'r so called "arguments" against the New 52
"-The Amazon history and society has been altered so that they are now a society based on rape, murder, and slavery. No, not that it happened to them, but rather they are rapists, murderers, and slavers."
Which is exactly how they were in Greek mythology
As someone who studied the subject, I appreciate the accuracy
"-Wonder Woman lacks compassion."]
BULLSHIT!
I do not read the mainstream Justice League, so I do not know what Geoff Johns has been doing with her , but you yourself have already said that he does not write her well, so you should not take his interpretation as a proper representation.
Instead, try actually reading her main series, or her guest appearance in Batwoman.
Wonder Woman continues to be one of the most compassionate characters in western comics. She even took in Hera after Apollo stripped her of her powers and immortality, despite all the things she previously did to her. Also her confrontations with Hades and Siracca show her as a compassionate and loving person (even if in some cases it's a case of tough love)
Or how she basically dropped everything to protect a child that was caught in the crossfire.
"-In fact, a general lack of compassion seems to permeate throughout the DCU"
And even more bullshit
Even Atrocitus has his moments
In Dial H, Nelson Jent risks his live to help The Squid, a being that previously murdered his best friend, all while stripped of his powers (and for you'r information, without his powers, Nelson is just an obese, chain-smoking alcoholic, who's lungs and heart are in such a bad condition that he can barely run across the street without collapsing)
Sure, he was also helping Squid in order to save Manteau, but he never rubbed the murder of his friend into his face, and was nothing but kind towards Squid throughout the whole ordeal
Also the most recent issue of New Guardians, where Kyle is trying to rip Arkillo out of his depression, or an earlier issue when Arkillo almost called Saint Walker his friend
Damn it! Even Harley Quinn is Suicide Squad stood up to the Joker to prevent him from desecrating Deadshot's body (who has previously sacrificed himself for the team)
"from Superman's early days"
You mean when he was risking capture to save the people from the buildings that were supposed to be torn down with them still in it, or when he faked Clark Kent's death, because he felt that having a life was keeping him from helping people? Or the time he took a train in the back to save the boy who previously stole his cape?
"Starfire's rather emotionless reactions to the world or just general pissed off-ness (and yes, I read the first 9 damn issues of that stupid-ass book. IT DOESN'T GET BETTER.)"
Then with all due respect, you should learn to read.
RHatO is all about compassion (and forgiveness, and coming to terms)
I've seen the new Doctor Who Christmas Special trailer.
It looks more like "The Doctor Who Rises" to me.
How many times has he "retired" only to come back at this point.
"DC editorial's refusal to allow Stephanie Brown or Cassandra Cain to have any place in the rebooted universe"
You can blame Barbara Gordon's popularity for that one. One more reason why I face-palmed when you recommended her series (in addition to it not being very good, seriously Gail, whenever you are not writing Secret Six, you never fail to disappoint)
"-The inability to write out a consistent timeline of events."
Why should they?
As long as the comics make sense within their own narrative, it's fine
I don't need to know what Batwoman is doing while reading Aquaman
Seriously, it seems to me that you are just angry because you can't fan-wank anymore
"-The entire history of the Teen Titans has been erased."
And?
Did DC employees bust into you'r apartment, burning all the copies of the old issues?
I can enjoy watching the Teen Titans and Young Justice, despite those shows having no connections to each other.
I used to read Secret Six, now I'm reading Suicide Squad, despite the two sharing little to no continuity.
Why can't you do the same with you'r comics?
"-Wally West and Donna Troi are also characters nowhere to be seen anywhere in this history and it's unlikely they exist at all here."
I can actually sympathize with you on these, as I miss them too
However I also understand why they got rid off Donna Troy
Remember, her very existence was a colossal mistake.
I don't mean that as an insult, that's just a fact.
All attempts at explaining or justifying her existence just ended up creating only an even bigger mess.
Her fate was essentially sealed the moment Cassie was introduced.
As for Wally - blame nostalgia
The moment Barry Allen returned, it was obvious that either Wally or Bart had to go, and Bart just so happened to wear the Kid Flash mantle at the moment
"-Lian Harper was likely never born"
which means she was never killed, and can be born again (would not be the first time something like that happens)
"Because one Jason Todd wasn't enough."
There's never enough Jason Todd XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-m9uG50mSw
No wonder you make such a good Superboy Prime voice
You ARE Superboy Prime!
"The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves."
Ehm, bs!
The Amazons originally intended to kill the male children (just like in the original tales), but Hephaestus traded in their lives for weapons.
He then raised the male amazons into blacksmiths and craftsmen who live at his workshop, producing more weapons for their sisters
Diana originally thought they were slaves, and wanted to liberate them, bu they stood up in Hephaesus' defense, stating that they work for him out of their free will, and that he treats them with kindness and respect
"Why should they?
As long as the comics make sense within their own narrative, it's fine
I don't need to know what Batwoman is doing while reading Aquaman"
Except when they share a universe and have frequent crossovers with one another and stories that intersect and continue from previous ones, an established continuity IS important. And therein lies the problem - it comes across like there ISN'T a consistent timeline within a single book and the Green Lantern books are probably example of this, as I listed above with the MANY events that directly influenced Hal Jordan and the events of his life, the time frame that they would have had to take place in, and how one thing impacts another.
This isn't the early-Image Comics "oh, well it doesn't really matter, they just have their own version of continuity that sometimes crosses over" bullcrap. Either they have an established, consistent universe OR THEY DON'T and their attempts to tip-toe around it just make them look like idiots.
"And?
Did DC employees bust into you'r apartment, burning all the copies of the old issues?
I can enjoy watching the Teen Titans and Young Justice, despite those shows having no connections to each other.
I used to read Secret Six, now I'm reading Suicide Squad, despite the two sharing little to no continuity.
Why can't you do the same with you'r comics?"
Because there's a difference between reading the same comics over and over and over and over and reading something NEW with those characters. And the big problem that we have here is that the characters we see in the New 52 are NOT the same characters they were before.
And believe it or not, some of us like to see the history of these characters respected due to the impact that they have had for the readers.
"I can actually sympathize with you on these, as I miss them too
However I also understand why they got rid off Donna Troy
Remember, her very existence was a colossal mistake.
I don't mean that as an insult, that's just a fact.
All attempts at explaining or justifying her existence just ended up creating only an even bigger mess.
Her fate was essentially sealed the moment Cassie was introduced. "
Donna Troy's history is not that goddamn complicated. People just focus in on the little details- no, I take that back. The WRITERS focus in on the stupid little details and fixate on them. The readers accepted a long time ago to not worry about it, but writers always want to keep going back to the various parts of her origins when the rest of us have moved on.
That's not a problem with the character, that's a problem with the writers. And while Donna's creation makes an interesting story to tell people at parties or whatever, the fact that the writer made a mistake in creating her really doesn't have an impact on the fact that she's a wholly-developed character with decades of character growth behind her.
"which means she was never killed, and can be born again (would not be the first time something like that happens)"
Why in God's name would I want Lian brought into this crap-hole of a continuity? Roy Harper in this universe is an irresponsible, unlikeable sack of horse flop in a stupid hat and I'm not even sure Cheshire exists in this continuity. And even if she did, knowing the tendency of the writers of the New 52 to make things quote-unquote "darker and edgier," Cheshire would likely be some kind of sadistic jerk who'd cut Lian out of her own womb or something instead of just being an assassin or they'd just kill Lian off AGAIN to add pathos to Roy.
"As for Wally - blame nostalgia
The moment Barry Allen returned, it was obvious that either Wally or Bart had to go, and Bart just so happened to wear the Kid Flash mantle at the moment"
Ummm... no they didn't! We have five frickin' Green Lanterns running around, two Flashes, hell before the reboot we had three Flashes running around. Believe it or not, fans accepted a long time ago that there can be multiple characters with the same codename!
"No wonder you make such a good Superboy Prime voice
You ARE Superboy Prime!"
No, I'm a customer complaining about a bad product. I DON'T RIP THE ARMS OFF OF PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME.
"Which is exactly how they were in Greek mythology
As someone who studied the subject, I appreciate the accuracy"
Yeeeaaah, here's the thing about that?
THEY. ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. AMAZONS. AS. THE. GREEK. MYTHOLOGY.
You want to know how *I* know that? WONDER WOMAN DOESN'T EXIST IN THE GREEK MYTHOLOGY.
And as for "accuracy," then Diana's entire goddamn backstory makes no fricking sense in the context of the mythological Amazons! The revised origin has Zeus and Hippolyta getting together, which is iffy enough territory for "accuracy," but why the hell would these people have any reason at all to raise Diana so that she becomes the compassionate person she's supposed to be? How the hell does the Spirit of Truth emerge when her entire society is based on lies and deception! And no, it's not "inspiring" that she's able to emerge from that, IT'S A BIG FRICKING PLOT HOLE. Why would they teach her sisterly love and compassion when she's instead constantly treated as an outsider by her peers (hell, why WOULD they go through all the malarkey of the fake backstory with her being made out of clay? Say she came from one of the raids or washed up on shore mysteriously or some nonsense like that! It can't be to protect her from Hera, since I think Hera would be able to ask the other Gods "say, did you guys give life to this clay child?") when other Amazon children are raised in this society to perpetuate this raid, rape, and slavery?! How the hell do they even keep that secret from her for the entirety of her life?
IT MAKES NO SENSE and it hurts the backstory of the character!
And yes, the stories DID get better. On another commenter's recommendation, I did check out some more recent issues and they are VASTLY improved, but these revisions are sickeningly unnecessary.
"And even more bullshit
Even Atrocitus has his moments"
Yes, that's fair in the examples you listed, though with Action Comics, I'm referring to the very first fricking issue where Superman is holding a guy over the edge of a building, saying Frank Miller-esque dialogue, and GRINNING while he does so.
That's not Superman. And don't give me any "it's his early days" crap. That's not the actions of a man who later will stop in a park to have a conversation with someone and then pose for a picture with a fan just because it's a nice thing to do - that's the actions of a guy who revels in how much power he has to decide who lives and who dies.
At a greater level, I'm more referring to the writers who seem to like their villains being as sadistic as possible, from the Joker's face thing to Knightfall in Batgirl (yes, I like the book, but that doesn't mean Gail doesn't occasionally go in uncomfortable directions) to the brutal actions of the Court of Owls and so forth.
"Then with all due respect, you should learn to read.
RHatO is all about compassion (and forgiveness, and coming to terms)"
Red Hood and the Outlaws is about three unlikeable pricks. One is Jason Todd, who gladly abandons happy memories of his past for absolutely no reason and despite continually CLAIMING to be sooo over Batman, he still wears a goddamn bat logo on his chest and still comes running when the bat calls.
Starfire's personality shifts from issue to issue, from someone supposedly caring about the welfare of others to not giving a damn about human life to supposedly being a spoiled princess to then caring about two guys she knows nothing about and acting as their personal secretary while also she apparently can't retain long-term memories of people she's met except when she can. Her most "fond and happy memory" is brutally murdering someone who was attempting to show compassion to her (and don't give me any "he was still part of the system enslaving her" nonsense - he could have very well worked to get her free or smuggle her out or SOMETHING. It's goddamn MURDER out of racism that he belonged to the race that had enslaved her).
Roy Harper is a sad sack who is apparently smart enough to steal weapons and technology from Oliver Queen without actually having ever been his sidekick, so his backstory and motivations as a charcater are completely out the window, especially why he would become a drug addict and alcoholic. He hits on anything female even when it could cause them problems, hangs out with Jason for reasons that I'm still not clear about, and I really don't know what the hell MOTIVATES him as a character. Actions need to have REASONS and I see no reason why he does anything that he does. And I cannot get over how much of a fricking idiot he looks while wearing that trucker hat.
The artwork is amazingly bad from a storytelling perspective, cramming in lots of dialogue balloons and the sequential art is confusing and difficult to follow from one scene to the next. The plots are stupid and characters are introduced and then shoved aside and those same characters seem to lack motivations or their motivations are just DUMB.
I know how to goddamn read. And I will read BETTER books than Red Hood and the Outlaws.
"Diana originally thought they were slaves, and wanted to liberate them, bu they stood up in Hephaesus' defense, stating that they work for him out of their free will, and that he treats them with kindness and respect"
Fair enough, but let me ask - DO they have the freedom to leave whenever they want?
And it's still not painting the Amazons in a nice light that they wanted to kill the kids.
You know what I suspect the worst part about the DC Reboot is? As disrespectful as it is to their history, it has brought them back up to their top-selling comics slot. So they're not likely to go back to it anytime soon.
From what I can tell, it's been a bit of a double-edged sword for DC. It has certainly brought in some new readers like they wanted, BUT it has also alienated old readers such as yourself.
...Y'know, all this makes me wonder: Why didn't Holokara focuses Comicron-1's weapons on DC Comics headquarters instead of Marvel?
"Except when they share a universe and have frequent crossovers with one another and stories that intersect and continue from previous ones"
Didn't really have much of a problem with that
The Batman/Darkness crossover (which was also an inter-company crossover between DC and Image) was considered canon within the Darkness story-line, while Batman outright ignored it
My point can be summed into "if the series I'm reading says it happened, then it happened" and the other way around
"And therein lies the problem - it comes across like there ISN'T a consistent timeline within a single book and the Green Lantern books are probably example of this, as I listed above with the MANY events that directly influenced Hal Jordan and the events of his life, the time frame that they would have had to take place in, and how one thing impacts another."
So they didn't take place in that time-frame
"Because there's a difference between reading the same comics over and over and over and over and reading something NEW with those characters. And the big problem that we have here is that the characters we see in the New 52 are NOT the same characters they were before."
So just wait until someone writes something with you'r favorite characters that you like.
It took fans of Helena Wayne two decades to get their character back (and Helena Bartinelli had to die off-screen to make space)
I'm willing to wait 20 years for Cassandra Cain to return (even tho I'd prefer it to happen sooner)
"And believe it or not, some of us like to see the history of these characters respected due to the impact that they have had for the readers."
When I was a kid, I loved Batman TAS
That however does not mean I was one of the "fans" who kept bitching about the Brave and the Bold for "not respecting the legacy of TAS"
For Donna
I do agree that it does not have that much of an impact on the stories with her
However, what would you do if someone, maybe someone potentially interested in reading the comics, asked you to tell them a brief origin of Donna Troy?
I sure had a hard time (I usually settle for her very first origin story, and hope people don't start questioning the time-line, but if they do...)
I'll politely ignore you'r hateful rambling about Roy, and just move to the issue of Liam
Why would they want to kill the same character twice?
OK, dumb question.
But the point is, there are alternative futures out there featuring a grown-up Liam.
Sooner or later some other writer will try to have their go with her
"Ummm... no they didn't! We have five frickin' Green Lanterns running around, two Flashes, hell before the reboot we had three Flashes running around. Believe it or not, fans accepted a long time ago that there can be multiple characters with the same codename!"
Well, the Green Lanterns are an organisation
As for the other superheroes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRWH_seUNRo
Yeah, I know
I'm not one of the people who would have a problem with there being more characters with the same name running around, but outsiders get confused easily (and getting outsiders into reading comics again was kinda the point of the whole reboot - looking at my friends, it worked)
"No, I'm a customer complaining about a bad product. I DON'T RIP THE ARMS OFF OF PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME."
That's because you don't have superpowers.
If you did, you'd most likely paint the room red with me (if not worse)
"That's because you don't have superpowers.
If you did, you'd most likely paint the room red with me (if not worse)"
No, and I'm sorry if I come across as overly aggressive. I'm just saying - the more and more I think about it, the less I like the reboot.
"But the point is, there are alternative futures out there featuring a grown-up Liam.
Sooner or later some other writer will try to have their go with her "
Not necessarily. You know how many characters out there have died and never been heard from again simply becaus people weren't interested in them? For crying out loud - my absolute favorite character is DANNY FRIGGIN' CHASE.
"However, what would you do if someone, maybe someone potentially interested in reading the comics, asked you to tell them a brief origin of Donna Troy?"
Donna Troy was created to be a mystical playmate of Wonder Woman as a child. However, Wonder Woman's mother had lots of enemies, one of whom wanted to kidnap Wonder Woman as revenge. However, they mistook Donna Troy for Wonder Woman and took her, instead. She was subjected to a torture where she lived different kinds of lives before that life ended in tragedy. However, one of the mythical Titans managed to spot her and rescue her from the villain. She was raised and taught her powers before she eventually returned to earth and fought crime as Wonder Girl.
Badda-bing. And no, I don't incoprorate the "she's the reborn Harbinger" thing - the revelation really had no impact on anything and nobody ever brought it up again. XD
Oh boy, here goes my day
But ok, I em willing to go back and forth
"why the hell would these people have any reason at all to raise Diana so that she becomes the compassionate person she's supposed to be? How the hell does the Spirit of Truth emerge when her entire society is based on lies and deception! And no, it's not "inspiring" that she's able to emerge from that, IT'S A BIG FRICKING PLOT HOLE. Why would they teach her sisterly love and compassion when she's instead constantly treated as an outsider by her peers "
Well, we have yet to see the circumstances under which she left Themiscira, or more from her past for that matter
So far, my theory is that Queen Hippolyta had a change of heart at some point for some reason
It's rather obvious that Diana had a rather sheltered childhood, seeing how she was unaware of the things that were going on on the island
Also there was a visible riff between the amazons and the Queen when Diana returned
Maybe Hippolyta was trying to change their society?
Why?
No idea!
Had it something to do with Zeus?
Maybe?
Was Steve Trevor involved?
Who knows
As said, just theories.
But even if there is the plot-hole, It's still an awesome series
"That's not Superman. And don't give me any it's his early days crap. That's not the actions of a man who later will stop in a park to have a conversation with someone and then pose for a picture with a fan just because it's a nice thing to do - that's the actions of a guy who revels in how much power he has to decide who lives and who dies."
To me it just all came off as an angry young man who had enough and decided to take matters into his own hands, and for a moment realizing how good it feels (before realizing he only made things worse)
Know the line "The Road to Hell is full of good intentions" ?
Chances are he was just looking down that road (but never took the steps)
"At a greater level, I'm more referring to the writers who seem to like their villains being as sadistic as possible, from the Joker's face thing to Knightfall in Batgirl (yes, I like the book, but that doesn't mean Gail doesn't occasionally go in uncomfortable directions) to the brutal actions of the Court of Owls and so forth."
Fair enough
"Red Hood and the Outlaws is about three unlikeable pricks. "
They seem pretty lovable to me
"One is Jason Todd, who gladly abandons happy memories of his past for absolutely no reason"
I got the impression he thought himself unworthy of having them, especially seeing how he previously failed to save his mentor (not to mention had to kill the re-animated corpses of his old friends)
"CLAIMING to be sooo over Batman, he still wears a goddamn bat logo on his chest and still comes running when the bat calls."
He obviously still cares for him
Mind you, he originally freaked out when Starfire offered him the costume with the logo, and she had to calm him down saying that clothes don't define who he is (which I guess he keeps telling himself - "See! I'm so self-assured, that I can wear his logo without it meaning anything!")
He's basically the wayward son.
A child who had a falling-out with their parents, and attempt to look tough to the outside world, while still loving them deep down (maybe another reason he willingly gave-up a memory - trying to prove something to himself)
I really find it hard not to sympathize with him
"Her most fond and happy memory is brutally murdering someone who was attempting to show compassion to her"
Yeah, that one came-out as a big WTF moment when I first read it, but I kinda understood it after thinking about it for a bit
She's royalty, and therefore above being pitied.
By showing compassion towards her, the guard humiliated her.
Doing what she did was the only way to keep face (at least according to protocol) in her already degrading situation
Was it cruel? Definitely, but not unprecedented when royalty is concerned
Blue and orange morality indeed (especially orange)
It's her nicer moments tho that make me like her
I do think that allot of the contradictory statements are a result of Lobdell just not being good with words (he did state in his early interviews that he wanted to write her with "alien morality" I assume he came-up with some bizarre world-view/morality-code, that he now fails to explain)
Roy is essentially a thrill seeking adventurer gone horribly wrong
He enjoys life and everything it throws his way, but he allowed things to get out of control
I will say that I would have preferred if they kept Roy's origin as Green Arrow's sidekick
If only to make this joke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lj9pnbJGA0
That, and (as horrible as Cry for Justice was) it would provide a better explanation for why his life went so out of hand before he met Crock (in fact, I was under the impression he was talking about the events of Cry for Justice when he was trying to make Killer Crock end his life)
(I have my own complaints about the New 52, but overall the good outweighs the bad for me)
"No, and I'm sorry if I come across as overly aggressive. I'm just saying - the more and more I think about it, the less I like the reboot."
That's ok
I just enjoy teasing people from time to time
I myself had mostly good experiences with the re-boot, my biggest issues mostly being the removal of some characters and the changes of some origins
However, despite this, I'm really having a good time with the titles they put out
Currently reading Animal Man, Action Comics, All-Star Western, Wonder Woman, I Vampire, Justice League Dark, New Guardians, Aquaman, Red Hood and the Outlaws, DC Universe Presents (depending on which characters are featured - the Deadman and Vandal Savage issues were amazing, and the current BlackLightning/BlueDevil team-up is also pretty neat), Batman, Suicide Squad, Red Lanterns, Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E., Demon Knights, Batwoman, Batman and Robin, Swamp Thing, Stormwatch (not as good as the Image issues, but much better than the pre-reboot DC issues), Earth 2, Dial H, Sword of Sorcery, and Batman Incorporated
used to read Blackhawks and O.M.A.C., before their untimely cancellation
And hey, they even forced Marvel to finally start putting out some quality content
Already loving the new Deadpool (he teams-up with the ghost of Benjamin Franklin to battle an army of zombyfied US presidents!)
Will also give a try to "Cable and X-Force" (it has Cable, Domino and Colossus), Thunderbolts (a team consisting of Deadpool, the Punisher, Electra, and Venom, lead by General Thunderbolt Ross), Morbius: The Living Vampire, Young Avengers (mostly because Loki is the new team leader), and Guardians of the Galaxy (Rocket Raccoon FTW!)
"Not necessarily. You know how many characters out there have died and never been heard from again simply becaus people weren't interested in them? For crying out loud - my absolute favorite character is DANNY FRIGGIN' CHASE."
Well, they did briefly bring back the Metal Men a few years back
Angel and Ape, The Haunted Tank, G.I. Robot
Even the Inferior Five made an appearance shortly before the reboot
Batman Johnson made a cameo for crying out loud
If these guys can make it, so does Liam.
(and unlike Chase, she does not have a hatedom to hold her back)
"Donna Troy was created to be a mystical playmate of Wonder Woman as a child. However, Wonder Woman's mother had lots of enemies, one of whom wanted to kidnap Wonder Woman as revenge. However, they mistook Donna Troy for Wonder Woman and took her, instead. She was subjected to a torture where she lived different kinds of lives before that life ended in tragedy. However, one of the mythical Titans managed to spot her and rescue her from the villain. She was raised and taught her powers before she eventually returned to earth and fought crime as Wonder Girl."
This made even me go WTF
and I already know this version
What is the Secret Origins theme tune called?
Out of curiosity, does Aquaman have jurisdiction to bodies of water, with land surrounding, like say a lake or a pond?
When I've been snorkelling and scuba-diving, I've seen a lot more currents (many) than whirlpools (none). So I can understand somebody from underwater knowing about winds and not tornadoes...
Nah. I've never seen a whirlpool, not like that, but I know what they are.
"Most people forget, aquaman lives in water and can speak to fish, which means he can talk to dolphins"
Dolphins aren't fish.
Maybe he can talk to fish AND cetaceans, but being able to talk to fish doesn't mean that he can talk to dolphins.
Okay, I'm going to come under a lot of fire for this... but I have no idea who Danny Chase is. Probably because this show is the most exposure to comics I have on a regular basis.
Which reminds me, what's this big twist I keep hearing about that apparently happened in a recent issue of Amazing Spider-Man? And Lewis, why is your response on Twitter about it always, "I give it six months"?
"What is the Secret Origins theme tune called?"
It is the Opening Theme of the DCAU Justice League cartoon show.
""-The Amazon history and society has been altered so that they are now a society based on rape, murder, and slavery. No, not that it happened to them, but rather they are rapists, murderers, and slavers."
Which is exactly how they were in Greek mythology
As someone who studied the subject, I appreciate the accuracy"
I honestly had no idea about the subject since it wasn't something I studied, however I still will chose to not read them because, accuracy aside, I am uncomfortable reading stories with such prevalent rape.
It's really not something I'd like to read in my comic books in general. No, I don't expect everything to always be perfect, for the titles I've read in the past Batman was a lot of them, but it's just not how I chose to spend my time at this point.
"Okay, I'm going to come under a lot of fire for this... but I have no idea who Danny Chase is."
http://www.comicvine.com/danny-chase/29-28700/
Yeah, I'm actually curious about what you'll read from Marvel NOW! I know you'll be avoiding Superior Spider-Man, and you've made your opinion clear on Avengers Academy, but is there anything else? I would actually be interested to see you do That's All I'm Saying for Marvel NOW!, although it might be more complicated at this point.
As for the Flash, I'll give my own two cents. Like many people, the DCAU is what introduced me to so many Flash characters. By the time Justice League aired, the Flash was one of my favorite characters in the team. Beyond the DCAU, when Kid Flash appeared in Teen Titans, I figured he was the Flash's sidekick, hence the name. However, to find out that Kid Flash, while indeed a sidekick for a Flash at one point, was in fact the same character from the Flash in the DCAU? That made me happy! It made me want to read about Wally West.
Alas, Geoff Johns brought back Hal Jordan and Barry Allen and made them the prominent heroes of their respective roles. Now admittedly, I myself have no problem with Johns (As much as someone who hasn't personally read enough comics to be a fair judge but will still hate on Lobdell can), but the fact is that he effectively took removed Wally and either Kyle or John from the roles they earned.
As for the idea that having multiple Green Lanterns is okay but multiple Flashes isn't, what about Batman Incorporated? True, they don't have superpowers, but it's the idea of similarly-themed heroes operating at different places at the same time. We couldn't just make all the characters empowered by the Speed Force have different names? Couldn't Bart just stay as Impulse? Granted, while roles like Robins or Kid Flashes eventually move on to new identities, I can't see the same being true of Batmen or Flashes.
So yes, I may be picky, and I'll be picking up the current volume of The Flash at some point, so until that story impresses me on its own, I will feel hollow because I want Wally. You say that Barbara was popular as Batgirl, hence why she gets the role? That is because of adaptations. While the Justice League and Teen Titans cartoons used Wally for different reasons, the is that I he's a character who was given the chance to be popular outside of the comics, and he's in Young Justice, too. The current volume of Teen Titans takes the lineup from the Young Justice book, which in turned resulted in a similar lineup in the Young Justice cartoon, but last I checked, the cartoon is still calling Bart Impulse. Why can't Bart be Impulse and Wally can be Kid Flash? We get both characters, and while they may not be in the roles we want them to be, the fact that they're there at all is much better than just getting rid of one of them.
Now then, as someone who is using the cartoons as logic, why SHOULD Red Hood and the Outlaws appeal to me as The New 52's target audience? Because if Justice League Dark can make me a fan of John Constantine, while the book is in some sort of weird conspiracy with Demon Knights to make me not give a damn about Madame Xanadu to the point that I am actually AGREEING with Constantine slapping Xanadu, what can I like about RHATO? I'm not encouraging males abusing females, it's just that Xanadu's behavior in Milligan's run was so intolerable that as far as I'm concerned, she was the Big Bad of the arc, so Constantine slapping her honestly felt like the hero fighting back against the hero.
Yes, I know, Starfire wasn't isn't necessarily as "pure" as she is in the Teen Titans cartoon, but she was still happy and fascinated by human life. Look at what Information Geek said about Wonder Woman to defend how compassionate she is. The logic that Wonder Woman loves everyone is what made Starfire such an endearing character, and I'll be surprised if Starfire didn't at least share SOME of that trait before the reboot, while I have seen absolutely no one say that this is how she behaves in the reboot when trying to defend her. Oh, she's not as sexually proactive as the first issue suggested? Then please, enlighten me on how she acts.
"Which is exactly how they were in Greek mythology
As someone who studied the subject, I appreciate the accuracy"
While I'm not suggesting it's completely accurate, I love Percy Jackson & The Olympians. Make a Wonder Woman story using the same logic for Greek mythology as that story, and I'll be interested. I hear it's been fantastic, but I dislike the idea of Apollo and Hermes being villains, primarily because they're my favorites. While Apollo does have more of a precedence to be a villain in actual Greek myth, why Hermes? His association with the Flash, while probably loose and only really matters in regards to Jay Gerrick, is something I'm interested in. It doesn't make me want to read Wonder Woman, it makes me want to read Earth 2.
Yes, I'll still be reading more from the reboot. However, if I had enough cash to spare, I would make rather read older stories, primarily featuring Wally (Lewis, I still recall your recommendations for Waid and Johns' runs, but I still need to actually get them, not helped by my preference for physical comics to the format of DC's digital comics), since I'm sure I'll still get more enjoyment and interest out of them than something like Scrappy Doo and the Character Derailment.
You think we're whining about how EVERYTHING WAS BETTER ON OUR EARTH? It's because DC wants to appeal to a new audience, but that audience grew attached to a different group of characters than the ones DC gave us. Despite my negativity towards Justice League Dark, I think at worked, particularly with Constantine, and even if you think it's just pandering, I, Vampire is worth it.
"Which reminds me, what's this big twist I keep hearing about that apparently happened in a recent issue of Amazing Spider-Man? And Lewis, why is your response on Twitter about it always, 'I give it six months'?"
I let you figure it out yourself
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"Which is exactly how they were in Greek mythology
As someone who studied the subject, I appreciate the accuracy"
I too like Greek Mythology, but the problem is that it is a shift from what DC's Amazons are supposed to be. I have come to the conclusion that the current Wonder Woman run reads like a Vertigo book, which does not surprise me due to Azzarello. It just seems out of place in terms of "feel" in the mainstream line. It doesnt read like a superhero book, at least in my opinion anyway.
"Why can't Bart be Impulse and Wally can be Kid Flash?"
I was wondering about that as well, but I think Dc just did not want to de-age a character to such an extent (especially since Wally would still be at least Dick Grayson's age, making him the oldest member, thereby undermining Tim Drake's position as a leader - not to mention, it would be kinda weird for a guy in his 20s to still call himself "Kid")
" I hear it's been fantastic, but I dislike the idea of Apollo and Hermes being villains, primarily because they're my favorites. While Apollo does have more of a precedence to be a villain in actual Greek myth, why Hermes?"
I'm not sure if Hermes can even be considered a villain in the series
The most (and only) remotely evil thing so far was kidnapping Zola's baby right after it was born, and give it to Demeter to raise
This was after he spent the majority of the series protecting the pregnant Zola from taking any harm, and he even ends up injured in the process of defending her
He really only seems to be extremely determined to keep Zeus' latest child safe, and most likely things that a bunch of mortals and demigods just aren't up to the task (sure, he has plans for the baby, but so far we don't know what sort of plans they are)
"Scrappy Doo and the Character Derailment"
You do realize that Scrappy-Doo originally ended-up saving the franchise, right?
By the late 70s, the ratings dropped to such extent that the show was facing cancellation.
The introduction of Scrappy boosted the ratings enough to allow the show to survive the 80s
Now You Know!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc
"Yes, that's fair in the examples you listed, though with Action Comics, I'm referring to the very first fricking issue where Superman is holding a guy over the edge of a building, saying Frank Miller-esque dialogue, and GRINNING while he does so."
Byrnes/Wolvman early years Post Crisis Superman left a thug on top of a building and threw a beam through a car that could've killed the thugs in it if he miscalculated the throw and that was their attempt at channeling the Golden Age Superman along with black and white season George Reeves Superman, which again in my personal opinion, make Morrison's Superman in the first issue look like a softie to me.
"I was wondering about that as well, but I think Dc just did not want to de-age a character to such an extent (especially since Wally would still be at least Dick Grayson's age, making him the oldest member, thereby undermining Tim Drake's position as a leader - not to mention, it would be kinda weird for a guy in his 20s to still call himself "Kid")"
That's a good point. There's that Daniel West character who showed up in the zero issue and is apparently going to play an important role in the current arc, so hopefully that could lead to Wally appearing. Unfortunately, the writers have said that as much as they would like him to, Wally won't appear during their run.
"I'm not sure if Hermes can even be considered a villain in the series "
Okay, I'm glad that Hermes isn't a very evil villain, but I'll need to read the point where he kidnaps the baby and see my reaction to it. Keeping Zeus' latest child is something I can understand, since in Percy Jackson, any demigods whose parent had yet to be known where taken in by his cabin until such a time where they would be "claimed".
"You do realize that Scrappy-Doo originally ended-up saving the franchise, right?"
I'm curious if this prompted Linkara's tweet about it. I personally think I'm just ambivalent towards Scrappy, and I'm just using the trope name. I could also use The Wesley, but I'm not a Star Trek fan, so I wouldn't know my opinion of him. I suppose "Creator's Pet" is good enough, since apparently Lobdell loves to play up Red Hood while thinking Tim never should have been Robin to the point that they even edited the trades to eliminate references to Tim's time as Robin and any suggestion that a previous incarnation of the Teen Titans ever existed. The idea is supposed to be that Tim should stand out from the other Robins, but making him someone who was never Robin just makes Tim stand out from himself.
If there are characters that weren't simply "changed" by the reboot and were flat out replaced, I could argue that Tim is such an example. If Snyder had the ability to say "No, that doesn't work with what I wrote, so I would like you to change that," then that would be awesome. I believe Lobdell's saving throw was that "Oh, Tim didn't want to use the name 'Robin' because doing so would dishonor Jason." Yes, because as long as you have some sort of prefix, it's all good. As people have pointed out, this makes Damian's quest to defeat all other Robins in Batman & Robin very nitpicky. I didn't actually read Teen Titans #0, so if there are some details I should be aware of, I'll welcome any corrections, but I think I can at least argue against the IDEA of these changes. I'm not even that big a fan of Tim Drake, since Dick Grayson is one example where the original will be my favorite.
With Teen Titans, I can imagine DC using the "iconic" argument, but this would be a moment where it fails more than the "Barry is the Flash" or "Barbara is the only Batgirl" case. If anything, it makes the absence of Steph DUMBER because I'm pretty sure Tim, Superboy, and Wonder Girl were a team when she was at least a prominent character, so they had the same amount of exposure. The three members are just counterparts to the Trinity, while everyone else is apparently a new creation. I'd rather read The Ravagers just for Beast Boy and Terra, but I imagine I would just be disappointed. Nightwing and Cyborg are the only Titans that have actually benefited this reboot, relatively speaking.
I myself was always indifferent towards Scrappy, but he does have an interesting history, seeing how he went from being a brake-out character of the franchise to being one of the most hated characters in animation history within a decade, without any changes being done to his character
As said in the earlier post, he was introduced to shake-things up, seeing how kids were getting tired of the same old formula (which was used over-and-over for one whole decade, not counting that one year during which they would team-up with a different celebrity each episode, including the Addams Family and Batman)
Scrappy proved highly popular with children, and managed to drive the ratings back-up.
But as the children grew older, they started finding the puppy more and more obnoxious (as happens with most "kid-appeal" characters)
This ultimately lead to the franchise getting a re-boot
One of my friends has a bit of a dislike towards Tim, reasoning that he's too much of a Dick Grayson clone
That despite their different origin story, they are largely the same character
"Jason is hot-blooded, Damian is cold-blooded, and Dick stands in the middle, where's Tim's place?"
I usually try to counter him that Tim is more about the intelligence, while Dick Grayson is about the physical prowess, but I can see the reasoning some people may have against him.
I still find it strange that someone considers Jason a "creator's per" , seeing how I always considered him to be the one who got royally screwed-over
From some background info from DC (sorry, can't remember the source, was about a year ago), I read that the whole "Death of the Family" voting was in fact rigged, and that DC back then simply wanted Batman to be a lone-wolf again, just as he was in the Golden Age
Jason was in the way (Killing Joke happened for the same reason)
- They never even counted the votes in the first place
I first became interested in Jason after Clayface impersonated him in "Hush" (which was later retconned into being the real Jason, who then switched places with Clayface at the last moment - yeah, still surprised why I stopped caring about continuity?)
I went to hunt down the older issues with him, and found him to be an awesome character
Personally I've never really liked Jason. He never had the great physical skills or leadership ability of Dick and he never had the detective skills of Tim. It used to be that he could fill the role of the problem child, but Damian fills that role better making Jason both underwhelming and redundant.
I will admit a bias because my dad always thought of Jason as a punk, and two of the first comics I've read (rather than just looking at the pictures) were the ones that first introduced Tim Drake. Him deducing Batman's identity and trying to help, not out of personal obligation, but simply because he felt Batman was falling apart is still one of my personal comic moments.
Of the Robins I've read I always find Jason lacking because I don't like his personality and I don't think he brings any notable skills to the table and if I were personally in charge of DC I would retcon out his resurrection.
"Of the Robins I've read I always find Jason lacking because I don't like his personality and I don't think he brings any notable skills to the table and if I were personally in charge of DC I would retcon out his resurrection."
And I already dislike you
I really don't think that Damian really fills the "problem child" slot, at least not in the same way Jason did
Jason was a child of the street, raised by neglectful parents, having to learn everything on his own
Damian was trained from birth to be an assassin, already possessing the greatest amount of skill of all the Robins (ok, probably second to Dick Grayson) at the point of becoming Robin. Also, unlike Jason, who had to get everything by himself, Damian got everything he wanted. He was entitled so to say.
Jason was a problem child because his life in poverty made him hostile towards authorities, Damian was a problem child because he was spoiled.
And what most nerds may consider a flaw in Jason, I consider his greatest aspect.
He was no child prodigy star acrobat like Dick Grayson. He was no teen prodigy genius like Tim Drake. He was no super ninja assassin like Damian.
He was a normal human being like you or me. He was a kid trying to survive to tough life on the street. From his first day, he had to claw his way upwards, and he still does.
Of all the Robin's, he's the closest to a real human being, with all the flaws associated with it (but without being a pathetic looser like Peter Parker)
In a way, I like Jason for being the exact opposite of Damian, who's also my second favorite Robin for just being so delightfully over-the-top (having knowledge and skills at the age of 10 that would take a life-time to learn for anyone else)
A treat for all the Aquaman fans in this comment section:
https://twitter.com/Kia/status/273904704742899712/photo/1
http://twitpic.com/bhbdza
https://twitter.com/car_advice/status/273915036194459648/photo/1
https://twitter.com/car_advice/status/273915157116235776/photo/1
http://kiaaustralia.tumblr.com/post/36115433916/kia-justice-league
I genuinely think his is the best of those cars.
Funny you have the same passion for sticking up for Aquaman as I do for sticking up for Robin. One guy made a remark about how useless he claimed Robin was. I simply told him the fact that he had successfully lead 4 teams including the JLA as Batman and the fact that he beat the Joker to death. All without any superpowers no less.
"and the fact that he beat the Joker to death. All without any superpowers no less."
you really don't need no superpowers for that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FywMOuMqNuI
I'M SO HOOD!!
Also Linkara, you just don't get New 52's Jason. He's over batman(as in terms of wanting to be a menace) but he still owe's who he is to batman so (especially when it involves the Joker) he'll help out. It's like when you're over your ex-girlfriend, but you're still her friend.
Unknown
P.S. Still pissed about Titans? get over it.
Hi, I uh, I know I'm really, really, late responder to this episode, but I was actually wondering; in the Titans retrospective you plan to do, will you be talking about Danny Chase at all? I would love to hear more about him.
I recently got my hands on "New Teen Titans; Games" and kinda fell in love with the little smart ass.
I've been trying to find any information on him I can, but there doesn't seem to be much to find. There are hardly any other fans of him, no fan fiction, and hardly any fan art. This has to be the first character I've run in to that has no active fan base (at least not that I've found) on the internet.
So I've pretty much just been scouring the bargain bins at the comic shop, in hopes of finding old Teen Titans comics with him in it. So far I haven't found much in that department either.
So, I guess, I dun' know, I was already looking forward to the retrospective, because I would love to get to hear what you have to say about The Teen Titans (and if I'm honest Jericho in particular), but now I'm really hoping to get to hear more about this character from someone who's a fan of him.
Mr Twister's staff holds turtles, not grenades... Three people said that already.
Good thing, then, that I'm posting more to thank you for recommending the Teen Titans so much that I just read over 200 issues of its second and third runs within this week.
But wait, there's more! I actually decided to get them after talking a little with the author of the Snowflame webcomic, which I also discovered thanks to you.
Oh, also read all the trades of Booster Gold on your recommendation. Liked them, but I'd have liked it more if the gimmick had permitted more interaction with its 'verse. Still, a painless introduction to the DCU.
I'm very impatient to watch your take on the Teen Titans. Hoping you'll have nice things to say about Raven's character and bad tings to say about how she gets captured, turns evil and disappear all the time. And how storylines repeat so goddamn much.
The Aquaman haters are a bunch of idiots and losers! Thank you Linkara! :)
I really feel the need to correct you about that poll (and yes I did check the comments but I'm sorry if I missed this.? . It was clearly a Facebook poll and those automatically give the audience the option to add their own options. They weren't asking if people wanted the old universe brought back, that was just the question fans felt like answering. Do you really think they'd put out a poll asking how readers would like to find out more about characters with options like "Fire Scott Lodbell." or "Musical number with dancing monkeys on the source."?
"Yeah, get this - apparently for hundreds if not thousands of years, the Amazons routinely find a ship floating near their waters, board it completely naked, mesmorize the men with their tantalizing nakedness, sleep with them, then murder them all and go back to the island to have children. The female children are kept within their society, the male children becomes slaves.
And if you don't get the rape part, bear in mind that sleeping with someone under false pretenses is rape, plus one has to remember that sailors of any century are not complete nimrods. A bunch of naked women board their ship demanding sex is not going to be greeted with fratboy cheering, it will be greeted with "what the hell is this sorcery?" Not to mention they show it happening through the ages, including modern times, which probably had FEMALE navy personnel or gay men who probably weren't interested, though this also makes one wonder what they did with any female PASSENGERS of ships in centuries past."
And I bet you thought Amazons Attack was the lowest they could go.
I kinda agree with what some people say on your New 52 stuff. I know it'd be a pain with HOPR and the weekly episodes, but it'd be great to see a special from you dissecting the New 52 and why it deserves the scorn you give it as well as anything positive (I've seen examples of both in the books. As said, I know it's an inconvenience, but I'm quite sure it would be interesting given your approach to comics.
The Great Cupigg should be a recurring character. Can you sneak him into a storyline? Please?
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