Hulk is strongest one there is! Unfortunately, his origin is not as strong.
Monday, November 26, 2012
The Incredible Hulk #1
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99 comments:
First to leave a comment. Yes.
(I'm sorry I had to.)
...just like fans of The Avengers.
God I hate that movie so
(Yes, I mean the recent one that was a disappointing mess of mediocrity and suckitude.)
"First to leave a comment. Yes.
(I'm sorry I had to.)"
No, you really didn't, and because I approve comments, I could have just as easily not let it through or it was even possible that you WEREN'T the first commenter and I just hadn't gotten around to approving comments yet.
So at the beginning Hulk was gray because he was supposed to resemble Frankenstein's monster ? Good to know.
Great review as always. Loved how you referenced your review of the Doom comic during General Ross's reading.
Wow, first story of The Hulk on your show. Ableit it's Secret Origins Month so it doesn't really count as much, so Hulk is still safe for now. At least until you look at the Red Hulk stuff.
Two things I'm wondering about via this story though:
1)When did we go from werewolf style changes for Hulk to the anger thing and how?
2)How did Gargoyle get ugly again (since I do remember him from the 90s cartoon working with The Leader)?
Another great review and especially love the carry the 2 line.
I got two questions for you if you don't mind me asking:
1. What's your thoughts on Betty Ross being the Red She-Hulk and getting her own book?
2. Will you be reading the Indestrucible Hulk by Mark Waid?
Thank you for listening.
Well, at least the general has now finally earned his name
Starting this December, he'll be leading the Thunderbolts
Never been a big fan of the Hulk. I only own his first essential. I heard the Peter David stuff was good though but it isn't in trade.
I didn't get the "sitting on soap" thing o.o
I'm always kind of surprised how much leeway the Marvel Universe gives the Hulk, especially since, despite his subjective sympathetic nature, OBJECTIVELY, the Hulk has always been a pretty significant danger/wild card to the populace. This is particularly egregious since, for some reason, Spiderman is considered to be one of Marvel's greatest monsters by the populace when he did NOTHING to them, but the savage superbeing who regularly has to be prevented from laying waste to any nearby city is regarded as merely a minor nuisance.
Just look at World War Hulk and the events leading up to it. The Illuminati are played up as evil jerks because they spaced the Hulk, but ignoring the dickishness in which they carried it out, what other options would they have? Hulk has NEVER been completely reigned in for more than a little while, and the fact that he's a friend eventually has to be measured against the very real threat he poses.
Your thoughts, Lewis or other commenters?
Don't worry, the "fake nerd" accusations aren't limited to girls
I first encountered this sort of accusations among male gamers in the mid-to-late 00s, when there were rumors that jocks playing Call of duty were infiltrating conventions, to humiliate nerds on their home-turf
The "female cosplayers being nerd-haters, only doing it for their egos" seems to have been derived from this paranoia
But what do I know, never bothered much with these hostilities
"I didn't get the 'sitting on soap' thing o.o"
Ever been in prison?
"I didn't get the "sitting on soap" thing o.o"
You never heard the term "get on my soapbox"?
""I didn't get the 'sitting on soap' thing o.o"
Ever been in prison?"
Erm, no, that's not it.
It's a box of soap.
A soap box.
in the original Mary Shell€y novel the creature never had a name
had to get my geek on for a second
Oh Jesus... the most AWESOME weapon ever? Really, old comic, REALLY?
But yes - if you consider The Monster to be Frank's son his name IS Frankenstein. No to mention The Bride of Frankenstein wasn't even interested in the good ol' doctor.
I got a feeling 90s Kid had something to do with the comic's script. It's way too 90-like for 1962.
Other bald guy in picture on wall is Joseph Stalin.
I guess mind-control guns just don't appeal to totalitarian leaders (???) in the Marvel universe since the Red Skull's one didn't seem to help the Nazis win either.
"...just like fans of The Avengers.
God I hate that movie so
(Yes, I mean the recent one that was a disappointing mess of mediocrity and suckitude.)"
What would you expect from that hack Joss Whedon anyway?
His Wonder Woman pitch was basically "Wonder Woman needs a man to teach her compassion"
All that guy can do is steal credit from other people if the movie does well, and blame his incompetence on other people if he screws-up again
"sigh" of all the characters in comics that I despise...its the Hulk. I don't mind his regular humiliation of Thor since Hulk SHOULD be on par with an Asgardian in terms of strength...but I call complete BULLCRAP on his apparant immunity to magic and practically everything,and World War Hulk just served to show how overpowered Hulk really is.
Mention of red hulk with this reminds me how marvel how screwed up the hulk family in recent years. Oh Jeph Loeb is there anything you don't touch anymore that doesn't get screwed up. Yes I will include some of brain scratching animation moves since he took over.
Sorry hulk one of my favorite characters going back to when I was a kid watching the old live action series. I agree pretty good origin issue till the cold war spy stuff. Funny note I never saw the 80s hulk cartoon till episodes were on tape in early 90s. I didn't know She-Hulk appeared in a series episode till years later. Sad thing is that series is even on netflix.
Next month christmas yeah!
"GET OFF YOUR SOAP BOX" Its also a good tip for conventioneers USE IT!
As Foamy once said "Can't stand the funk"
Great review. I'm curious though when did it go from a form of Lycanthropy to rage driven? Was it just the attacks forced him to change in the day? I don't have access to those early books.
Good news the RSS news feed actually got the notice out fairly quickly again.
So with the end of the month does this mean we finally return to our story line possibly already in progress?
Only real complaint is that they had no reason to even imagine a She-hulk yet. Banners Cousin is probably where in high school right at this point in time? Grade school?
Great use of the Hulk Smash order BTW.
Rick Jones has a terrific history. Beside's being the Hulk's on again off again sidekick for his entire history, he's also had long stints as Captain America and Captain Marvel's sidekick. Besides that he's formed his own superhero aid group, joined the Avengers, ended the first (and most famous) Kree Skull war single handed, had a showdown with Thanos, and gained superpowers and become the superhero A-bomb. I'm not kidding about any of that.
Woah! Its the first time i see 90's kid appearing during a silver age comic without mentioning the 90's.
I'll say it: I like Red Hulk more than regular Hulk, but only after his quest for redemption started. Former grizzled war vet trapped in the form of his worst enemy, who's seeking absolution for his Ahab-like obsession with said enemy? *AND* he pals around with Venom? More, please.
I always found the Hulk to be in that interesting pantheon of Stan Lee creations that didn't quite find their legs under Lee himself. Similar to Daredevil and the X-Men, other writers would later iron out the kinks in Lee/Kirby's initial creation, and give us their more memorable incarnations. But that's the great thing about the Silver Age at Marvel: they threw so much stuff out there to see what would stick, and you don't mind the occasional Gargoyle or creepy perv X-Men.
And now I have to be That Guy, and point out a common misconception regarding "Duck and cover" drills. You're absolutely right: in regards to what happened in the comic, Rick Jones SHOULD have been messed up just as badly as Banner was. (Hulked out, or vaporized, or what have you.) But the point of D&C drills isn't to survive a nuclear blast; it's to survive nuclear fallout.
Think of it like this: if you're in the blast zone, you're dead before you even know what happened. And if you're in the primary radiation fallout zone, then you're going to die from rad poisoning, regardless. But the further you get away from ground zero, and the weaker the fallout gets, then everything you can get between your body and the fallout, to lesson the amount of radiation you're exposed to, decreases your odds of cancer and other harm. People laugh at the D&C drills because they've got the luxury not to understand them.
(I lived the first four years of my life in West Germany, in the mid eighties, and had this type of thing drilled into me. It stuck.)
While I like Masterthecreator's funny figures and simple graphics I'm really digging this vintage comic book cover looking title card.
The person in the portrait that The Gargoyle was yelling at was Nikita Khrushchev, the Premier of the Soviet Union at the time of the comic.
Call me crazy, but I considered the 1977-82 TV series to be the superior Hulk outside of the comics. Sure I never mind the different CG Hulks (especially Mark Ruffalo's being the best of the bunch), but it's more fun watching Lou Ferrigno in green makeup throwing people around. That's always fun!
Points as I'm watching:
1) Earth Mightiest Heroes cartoon had a great line during their Red Hulk episode and SHIELD attacking him.
Wasp "Um, that's not our Hulk. He's red"
Maria Hill "And he started as green, your point?"
2) There are currently 7 Hulks in Marvel right now. Hulk, Red Hulk, Skaar: Son of Hulk, She-Hulk, Red She Hulk, and Savage She-Hulk (Futuristic daughter of Hulk who you see in Avengers Academy). A-Bomb is also a Hulk.
3) Jeph Loeb's Red Hulk stuff sucks because he acts like he's the greatest character ever. Even having futures where he's president of the U.S. Loeb is terrible like that.
BUT, Jeff Parker had a really great run of the Red Hulk and actually made him likable. I know that's hard to believe, but Jeff Parker's run for the character was great because it was about him being humbled.
Way's Thunderbolts though...that's going to be a mindless gore fest. Yeah, I don't have faith (Especially since they are ignoring all previous Thunderbolts stuff for it.)
I read Tracey's explanation of your convention joke, but I still don't entirely get it.
Please, elaborate since I haven't any idea about the girls + convention = bad thing means.
When can we expect your rant on The Culling? Would also like to ear your thoughts on the weekly series 52?
Was an awesome origins month again, and it was nice to end with the Hulk, looking forward to next month.
Is it just me or does a lot seem to happen in these Silver Age #1s? Lot of dialogue, lot of characters, lot of settings. When compared to today where #1 seems to be all set up for issue 2
"I read Tracey's explanation of your convention joke, but I still don't entirely get it.
Please, elaborate since I haven't any idea about the girls + convention = bad thing means."
Look up "Tony Harris" "Facebook" and "Cosplayers."
Alright, I'm going to make a guess what the next 4 secret origins will be (Shut up, speculation is fun and I know it's a year away.)
- Aquaman's Origin
- Thor's Origin
- Justice League's Origin
- Avengers Origin
"Wasp "Um, that's not our Hulk. He's red"
Maria Hill "And he started as green, your point?"
I screwed this up. It was supposed to be
Maria Hill "And he started as grey, your point is?"
Yeah, oh well, screwed that up.
Awsome review! Hey by the way which actor do you think plays Bruce better, Edward Norton from the 2008 film or Mark Ruffalo from the avengers?
I remember reading the essentials collection of the Hulk a while back. God God, you thought that Were-Hulk was weird? In no particular order, the Hulk becomes stuck as the Hulk, Bruce intentionally transforms into the Hulk, Hulk temporarily retains Bruce's personality, Rick Jones becomes the Hulks master through mind control, before the whole thing was scrapped and suddenly Bruce became the Hulk when he got angry.
And when the Hulk got angry - he turned back into Bruce. What the Hell.
Oh, and you can always tell when someone's a red commie in these books by their name. Igor, Boris, Natasha - in Stan's world, Russia had like five options to name people.
Great video. Just two little nitpicks:
1.) Fermat is pronounced like "fair - MAH". Pierre de Fermat was French, after all.
2.) And I suspect that the bald guy in the picture that Gargoyle yells at is supposed to be Nikita Khrushchev.
But, anyways, a couple minor errors don't ruin my enjoyment of the video. :)
Mind control gun is probably a thing a mad scientist would like to keep for himself so that it's not used against him.
Also, USSR is evil because its government tested secret bombs and accidentally turned the future Gargoyle into a monster ? Fortunately for him, Banner, also known as the Hulk and creator of the Gamma Bomb for the US government came to show him the true values of America.
There! I just finished watching EVERY. SINGLE. EPISODE. of Atop The Fourth Wall EVER! From The Top 15 WTF Moments In Comics to the present. (including crossovers, commentaries, and vlogs) I spent my entire Thanksgiving break doing that, and I must say: WEEK WELL SPENT! I love your reviews and storylines, so keep it up!
"There! I just finished watching EVERY. SINGLE. EPISODE. of Atop The Fourth Wall EVER! From The Top 15 WTF Moments In Comics to the present. (including crossovers, commentaries, and vlogs) I spent my entire Thanksgiving break doing that, and I must say: WEEK WELL SPENT! I love your reviews and storylines, so keep it up!"
And now you begin the slow crawl of having no buffer and having to wait week after week like everybody else! =D
Hey Linkara, ever heard of the fan theory that Bruce Banner was actively trying to commit suicide?
Think about it: He actively chooses to go out into the dangerous blast rather then let someone else go. He chooses not to stop the bomb even though he could. He tells Rick Jones what to do when he throws him into the trench without jumping in himself.
Could it be that Bruce, after a tragic upbringing, subconsciously wanted to die? And that the Hulk is his unleashed Id, free from the social constraits of his past, getting revenge on all the suffering he's had.
It's just a theory, but when looked at in that light it makes the Hulk a hell of a lot more tragic.
Using a clip that refers to Victor Frankenstein as "Heinrech" isn't really a great argument for canonicity.
Nothing against short-handing the name (I usually go with 'Frankie'), just saying.
Daniel T. Stack: Considering that she's supposedly been a lawyer for a few years at the start of Savage She-Hulk, I'm guessing that, at the point of this comic, Jen Walters would be a month or two away from getting called to The Bar. It's comic book time, after all, where eighteen years real time is usually closer to four years for the characters.
Anonymous 2:02: I doubt he's going to get to either Avengers or the Justice SOCIETY of America next year. On the Avengers front, he STILL has to get through Ant-Man, Wasp and Thor and, because of the Guardians of the Galaxy film in 2014, I'd bet The Avengers is penciled for Secret Origins Month 2015 at the earliest. For the Justice Society, he has the origins for Al Pratt (Golden Age Atom), Wesley Dodds (Golden Age Sandman), Jim Corrigan (The Spectre), Rex Tyler (Golden Age Hour-Man), Carter Hall (Golden Age Hawkman) and Doctor Fate to deal with. So, 2016 at the earliest.
My guess for 2013:
Adventure Comics #40 (Dodds)
Tales to Astonish #27 (Pym)
All-American Comics #19 (Pratt)
Journey Into Mystery #83 (Thor)
My guess for 2014:
Adventure Comics #48 (Tyler)
Tales to Astonish #44 (Van Dyne)
More Fun Comics #52 (Corrigan)
Marvel Super Heroes #18 (GotG)
My guess for 2015:
More Fun Comics #55 (Doctor Fate)
The Avengers #1
Flash Comics #1 Revisit (Carter Hall)
Daredevil #1
My guess for 2016:
Justice Society of America #1
Marvel Superheroes #12 (Mar-Vell)
More Fun Comics #73 (Green Arrow)
Fantastic Four #52 (Black Panther)
One little point I'd throw out the bald guy Gargoyle blames for his origin is Nikita Krushchev.
Maybe for fun next year for Secret Origins month you could look at some lesser known Silver Age characters like the Steve Ditko Blue Beetle or some of Dell Or Archie's attempts at creating superheroes.
Anonymous 2:02: I'm guessing he'll get to the Justice LEAGUE in 2018, and I'm fully willing to admit my Green Arrow guess is the most likely to be wrong. If he even plans that far in advance, I'd be a bit more confident that Aquaman or Martian Manhunter (Detective Comics #225) would be chosen.
Ahhhh... actually, E. Wilson, you've got it backwards.
With nukes, the blast zone is no different than that of any other bomb. "Duck and Cover" was meant for short-term survival, and helps protect you from blast the same way that it helps if you're about to be hit by a tornado, or if a conventional bomb goes off--you're using your extremities to protect your head and torso, and getting whatever cover you can against flying debris. So long as you're not close enough that the overpressure isn't fatal, this *will* improve your odds of survival. (As for the trench, not only does it help with flying debris, but as the Mythbusters have shown, any sort of barrier between you and the blast will reduce the overpressure experienced, so you can survive the same blast at a much closer distance if you're down in a slit trench like Rick was.)
On the radiation side, there's two issues. First, you have the immediate, or "prompt" radiation that the bomb gives off. While it emits over the whole electromagnetic spectrum, including equally massive levels of heat (infrared) and visible light, the damaging radiation is mainly in the form of gamma rays (yes, they're real), and as it turns out... dirt is a very good shield against gamma radiation. So if you get down into the trench and are "shadowed" from the burst point, you'll get a much lower radiation dose than if you're exposed.
Fallout is actually a *secondary* product, and completely separate--it's the pulverized remnants of the bomb itself and anything else that was pulled into the fireball, vaporized, and contaminated with the fission products precipitating, or "falling out," from the sky once they've cooled. It tends to travel downwind like any smoke or ash cloud, and is most dangerous when ingested on food or water, as the most harmful radiation is actually shielded effectively by human skin.
Regarding the comic... I really wonder if the FBI might have investigated Stan Lee over this one, since around that time, we really WERE working on a nuclear weapon that generated huge amounts of gamma radiation (for its explosive yield, anyway), the Enhanced Radiation Weapon or "neutron bomb," intended to fry the firing circuits of incoming nuclear warheads with its own radiation...
"Regarding the comic... I really wonder if the FBI might have investigated Stan Lee over this one, since around that time, we really WERE working on a nuclear weapon that generated huge amounts of gamma radiation (for its explosive yield, anyway), the Enhanced Radiation Weapon or "neutron bomb," intended to fry the firing circuits of incoming nuclear warheads with its own radiation..."
Aaactually while I don't think that ever happened, Superman was actually the one that got a lot of attention from the government during World War II.
On several occasions, scientific work regarding the atomic bomb managed to find its way into the strip, not out of hatred of the bomb or an attempt to tell people the secrets of the thing, but just out of coincidence. A Superman story featured Lex Luthor building "an atomic bomb" that of course didn't resemble anything like a real one, but the government felt that they didn't want to raise public interest in it until they were ready to announce they were developing one. Next was shortly after World War II, where Clark Kent was covering an atomic bomb coverage and the government stepped in and asked the story to be delayed (it was) so that people didn't see the bomb so soon after the war. And finally, Alvin Schwartzs wrote a Superman story that the government was actively trying to stop, though apparently wasn't able to. The story featured a Cyclotron (AKA an atom smasher), which at the time was used in the development of nuclear power. The government was fearful of ANY leaks concerning the development of nuclear power and were especially afraid of how this guy knew anything about it. Schwartz wasn't aware of all this at the time, but when he was told about it later, he laughed about it an explained he had learned about the Cyclotron from an article in friggin' Popular Mechanics.
He hid the formula by taping it to the bottom of a vial? Aren't those generally made of clear glass?
Oh, I'd bet Stan got himself investigated a few times. That doesn't mean anything ever came of the investigation, or that he got in trouble. Just somebody in a suit thought they'd make themselves look useful by pretending to look into something.
Anonymous 2:02: However, if CR gets to any of the remaining Justice Society founders (most being clear candidates for his show), that MIGHT bump up the timing on both the Justice Society and the Justice League episodes.
Dodds: Outside of comics, he's an opening kill on a late Smallville episode and has non-speaking cameos on Brave and the Bold and Young Justice.
Pratt: Mash-up of him and Golden Age Superman appeared in Justice League, supporting role in a Smallville ep.
Hour-Man: Cameos in JLU and Brave and the Bold, object cameo in Smallville.
The Spectre: Showcase appearance in Brave and the Bold, visual cameo in a Smallville ep, DC showcase short and a DCUO appearance.
Doctor Fate: Borderline, with all his appearances sounding like showcases, but it could still happen.
Carter Hall: Throwaway line mention in the Flash TV Show, in the Legends of the Superheroes specials, two appearances in JLU, a Brave and the Bold cameo and a recurring character on Smallville, but it's on seasons 9 and 10, by which point I don't think ANYONE cared.
I wonder if Betty was referring to other Marvel comics of the time like Fantastic Four?
Might I suggest that you dedicate next year's Secret Origins month to underrated heroes that are just as bad-ass as the rest of the universe.
Like for example...
-Aquaman is Awesome
-Ant-Man is Awesome
-Hawkeye is Awesome
-Booster Gold is Awesome
Hell, I would be satisfied if you only included Booster Gold out of my suggestions.
Can't wait for next year.
The F Bomb. The true origin of the Angry Video Game Nerd.
The more of these old-timey comics you review, the more I notice a trend of Generic Love Interests hanging around doing nothing. I'm beginning to think they're all the same person with different hair and dresses.
Also, good to see the "take over the world" gag lives on.
Really enjoyed this review. I'd no idea about the actual comic origins of the Hulk. So, Black Web transformed when the Hulk did and was from a scientific accident.
Not suggesting anything bad with that, just a curious though to hit.
Almost expected 90s kid to be holding the F-bomb.
Am looking forward to the next month of comics very much.
Wow, a few of my bits were used...I'm flattered. Though I wonder how the heck the "Red Hulk" is going to show up on the show now.
The Hulk is just an interesting take on how a character sort of has an idea that works yet ends up having a wonky period that they have to work it out. Weirdly it took later writers and stories to get it worked out and people like Peter David to make it all seem to flow together as it did, such as making the Gray Hulk a different personality compared to the savage Green Hulk we all know and love. But the early Hulk stories are bizarre, with the next one with the Toad Men actually having the Hulk still in "villain mode" wanting to take humanity out for making him into a monster..and mind you, he was green and still had some intelligence! And let's not get started into the mess with Rick Jones...he goes from Bruce's sidekick to Captain American's sidekick to Captain Marvel's partner to....I don't even know anymore but last I heard he may be a gamma creature too. Dang radiation!
If we're to get to the Avengers, I sort of see both Thor and Loki being needed...weirdly Loki has a tale prior to appearing in Thor's book and it would be one of your first villain intros but you did say prior you were trying to avoid villains for the time being. Then there are the Pyms...honestly I rather we just do Thor and then the Avengers cause getting through the Pyms is going to be a bit tough. (from what I've been seeing on supermegamonkey, Tales to Astonish was rather excrutiating with Ant-Man...though at least when Wasp shows up it gets a bit better...)
Christmas should be fun though, can't wait.
LOVED the 90's Kid bit, thanks for that.
"You've got no guts!" Because really, *I* would lose my nerve testing an experimental bomb in the middle of a desert from a perfectly safe location. It is not like any civilians could possibly get onto this secure government facility... oh wait... But at least we have tons of government staff who can quickly get over there and get the person out of harm's way. Wait, nobody like that is around? I have to do it?
(Some destructive bomb that can't kill two people from a couple miles away. There are SO many things wrong with this comic, there should be no reason for anyone to fear this bomb's detonation or not have the guts to do it; General Ross is a moron.)
"He is our most famous scientist." Because fame directly correlates to genius. I hate when people think things like that, it really bugs me.
Only a science major could make a Gamma Bomb like this! Every Botanist, Geologist, and Astrologer could make it! ANYONE! (The same goes for web shooters, hard water [which actually exists], and clone Hitlers.)
The Gray Hulk from "Incredible Hulk #1" was reintroduced a few months before Peter David began what would turn out to be a twelve year stint as writer. In the previous storyline, written by John Byrne, Bruce Banner and the Hulk were separated by Doc Samson, and S.H.I.E.L.D. was going to execute the Hulk. However Banner began to die without the Hulk and the Hulk broke free and ran amok. Eventually Banner and the Hulk were re-integrated... only during the process Thunderbolt Ross tried to sabotage the process. As a result, when the sciency thing was done, the Hulk turned gray for a moment before reverting to Banner.
For almost six years the Green Hulk was not seen, other than in flashbacks. Instead the Gray Hulk, a meaner, nastier Hulk was running around causing mischief at night and trying to put himself in situations that would bite Banner in the ass when he reverted at sunrise. This is also the period when Peter David had the Hulk become an enforcer for a mafia run Las Vegas casino, where he went by the handle Joe "Fix-It", aka "Mr. Fix-It." (No relation to Fix-It Felix or Fix-It Felix, Jr.) This was a major departure from the usual Hulk stories (even ones where the Hulk had Banner's intellect or was being mentally controlled by Rick Jones).
Personally I love the Las Vegas arc, though it only ran for twelve issues, including three that flashbacked to Jarella's World and a four part crossover that had nothing to do with Las Vegas.
What about the little girl the frankenstein monster threw in the lake because he didnt understand the concept of the game they were playing.alot of theatres cut that part so first generation frank fans-like stan lee- were deprived of the "dangerous retard" angle.
he also killed the guy who wandered into the pit underneath the burnt windmill at the begining of bride.and that nurse he chucks through the window in Abott and Costello meet frankenstein. Though,yes this is mostly due to hiccups in the way how a re-animated brain works i guess.or what you said mistreating.
but he's not WHOLLY sympathetic,its more like Mr.Freeze,where the audience completly empathises with him,and his tortured existance and it makes you want to roll a tear,but he's dangerous and needs to go.
it seems minor but it really is important,because too much emphasis on the misunderstood angle really neuters the horror the monster is capable of.
I really look forward to your Teen Titan retrospective. You know,I'm pretty sure you could release those in leau of AT4W for the weeks they are released. I mean its nice that you keep all your shows concepts focused. But it seems like too much work and literally every other reviewer has changed up the format before.(AVGN's CASTLEVANIA 4-parter and NC's Old vs. New and Animaniacs tribute come to mind)
Just a suggestion to give you more time.If you ever need a backup writer,itd be a dream to contribute to a show like yours.
Thanks for the consistant effort to make some of the best videos on the internet.
"he also killed the guy who wandered into the pit underneath the burnt windmill at the begining of bride.and that nurse he chucks through the window in Abott and Costello meet frankenstein. Though,yes this is mostly due to hiccups in the way how a re-animated brain works i guess.or what you said mistreating."
It's probably important to remember that less than an hour beforehand people were trying to kill him. He probably wasn't in a great mood when that happened.
Is it just my nerdy instincts, or was it appropriate to tear out my hair each time he said "Ygor" when the book said "Igor". HAS SOCIETY GONE MAD!?!
See, Kruschev was deposed a year later by Brezhnev--or should I say, the Gargoyle? Hulk smash geopolitical reality!
And the Soviet Union was brought down by an addiction to rock music and blue jeans. Don't they teach history anymore?
@Steve: It's a lot less surprising when you remember that the military actually wanted the hulk dead or alive during the same period that the average person thought Spiderman was a dangerous loose cannon, fraud, or criminal who should be locked up and that took a massive smear campaign by a crazy newsman. Both of them were generally treated better by superheroes they encountered after the obligatory fight.
As for giving the Hulk leeway, I figure at some point the military just got tired of the amount of resources they were losing and realized that attacking the Hulk only caused enormous amounts of escalation, whereas left alone he'd usually just smash a car (that had been about to hit Banner) or something and leave. Barring mind-control of course, but that's just a common hazard in the Marvel universe.
Intriguing review, though a few comments on Frankenstein:
Firstly, quoting the movies doesn't really help. Mary Shelly wrote "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus" about 120 years before the movies came out, and never gives the monster a name, always referring to it more like an object or something inhuman. Naturally, as Mrs. Shelly has been dead for about 160 years, there's no way of asking her. My take is was used to dehumanize it somewhat; less of a person, and more of a creature.
Secondly, while he was certainly misunderstood, in the book takes it a bit farther; he's actually pretty altruistic at first. He actually winds up helping (if memory serves) a blind woman/family for a few years after Dr. Frankenstein banishes him. From what I've seen of the hulk, it's more the opposite - he starts out as a monster, and later becomes more heroic.
Finally, no jokes about Frankenstein the new DCU? Where he becomes a secret agent? That's almost something that Douchy McNitpick would have a field day over ;)
Sorry Lewis don't know if it has been said already but the whole monster is named Frankenstein thing is still wrong. I should know I'm studying the novel in depth at university. Victor never names the monster Frankenstein in fact the closest he gets to giving it a name is toying with the idea of naming it Adam after the first man since he wanted the monster to be a kind of new breed of men who were immortal to everything but a violent death (I.e. Dismemberment). After Victor flees his lab in abject horror upon seeing the monster it is called the Creature from then on.
The movies may have added that undertone of Frankenstein being offspring to Victor which is present in the novel BUT Mary Shelly didn't write those movies so yeah...
Sorry after having my tutors drill into me that Frankenstein is not the Creature's name it kind of bugs me now. >.>'
Good review anyhow :D.
Regarding the monster being sympathetic, that's how he was portrayed in the original novel as well. Also in the novel, he never adopts the name Frankenstein, or any other; the closest he comes to a name is in identifying himself as the Adam of Frankenstein's labours, and I think Mary Shelley said that if you're going to give the monster a personal name, Adam is the most appropriate. So I guess by your logic, that would make the monster's full name Adam Frankenstein, son of Victor Frankenstein.
>>Is it just me or does a lot seem to happen in these Silver Age #1s? Lot of dialogue, lot of characters, lot of settings. When compared to today where #1 seems to be all set up for issue 2
Two factors here:
1: Warren Ellis introduced decompression in the mid-90s, and as soon as he did, everyone copied him. American comics have yet to fully recover.
2: Up to about 1988 or 1989, comics were seen as disposable media; you'd buy an issue, read it, and then (here's the critical part) throw it away or give it to a friend. Nobody was overly concerned with getting every single issue, and so writers wrote so that each issue would contain a complete story so that if someone missed the next one, they wouldn't feel cheated at only getting half the story. This was ESPECIALLY the case with a first issue, since you wanted people to keep buying it and so you have to give them a complete, exciting, self-contained story that will encourage the reader to keep coming back for more of the same.
In the mid-to-late 70s and 80s, people started taking comics a bit more seriously, and so ongoing stories became more common. However, since most readers were still of the casual variety, even comics that were part of a long-running storyline would generally tell a story with a proper beginning, middle, and end in a single issue so as not to alienate the majority of the readers. Furthermore, storylines were often short, rarely lasting more than three issues.
In the 90s, sales to collectors came to outnumber those to casual readers, and the companies increasingly focussed their products on that sector. Since collectors would buy the issues anyway, writers were given more leeway to write single stories which spanned multiple issues. At the same time, sales of trade paperbacks increased significantly, and writers also started plotting with an eye more on the collection than on the individual issue.
Hence, we arrive at the modern situation, where writers think of the natural unit of a comic as being not a 22-page issue, but a 132-page block of six issues. With that in mind, it's clear why issue 1 is all setup for issue 2 - in the writer's mind, issue 1 isn't a work in itself, it's just the first chapter of a graphic novel they're writing which happens to be split into six pieces.
That, coupled with the decompression and fashion for fewer, larger panels per page I mentioned earlier which leaves less room for stuff to actually happen, explains the current state of comics and is why I think it should be mandatory that every title put out at least one done-in-one story per year.
>>Hey Linkara, ever heard of the fan theory that Bruce Banner was actively trying to commit suicide?
>>Think about it: He actively chooses to go out into the dangerous blast rather then let someone else go. He chooses not to stop the bomb even though he could. He tells Rick Jones what to do when he throws him into the trench without jumping in himself.
>>Could it be that Bruce, after a tragic upbringing, subconsciously wanted to die? And that the Hulk is his unleashed Id, free from the social constraits of his past, getting revenge on all the suffering he's had.
>>It's just a theory, but when looked at in that light it makes the Hulk a hell of a lot more tragic.
I've seen another fan theory, based on how Bruce and the Hulk behave in early issues (after the Hulk becomes green), that Bruce in the 60s and 70s was gay. Considering how gays were treated back then, being suicidal is a distinct possibility.
Wait, no Kingdom of Crystal Skull nuked fridge joke? Come one man! That one should have been easy.
F Bob joke was awesome.
As far as the Hulk becoming green i heard it was because on one issue the printer copied the gray as green and it caught on.
Good vid all the same.
Actually Mary Shelly (who frankly should be more than Hollywood respected as the creator of the source material) referred to the creature as 'Adam'.
I loved the hulk in the avengers but i never read any of the comics also didn’t watch any of the movies the TV serie or any cartoons he appeared in so I didn’t know his origin until today.
it’s kind of cliché but it was made in a time before radiation = superpowers became cliché.
also I’m getting tired of the fact that so many origin story have former American enemies as their villains it makes the comics feel like propaganda.
Ratin8tor: It's an interesting fan theory, but I don't think it makes The Hulk any more tragic. If anything, perceiving it like that would do more to ROB The Hulk of his tragedy. Instead of it being a reckless decision that winds up making him a force of destruction, the decision itself is fuelled by suicidal depression and it winds up giving him an outlet. So, let's compare this theoretical read to another "botched suicide" origin. Livewire, from Superman the animated series, was a shock jock named Leslie Willis who wanted to commit a grand public suicide. SMILING just before lightning was going to shock her to death, Superman did as Superman does and pulled Leslie Willis out of the way, getting shocked himself. After passing through Superman, the lightning hit her, but, presumably due to it's interaction with Kryptonian biology, the heavy implication (excepting the STUPID X-Ray flashes near the end of her first episode) is that she got turned into an energy being. A botched suicide CAN be a tragic angle, but it really CAN'T be due to the normal psychological reason, that reason being DEPRESSION. Leslie Willis being totally robbed of both her humanity and a jubiliantly pursued suicide by Superman in one fell swoop? In my eyes, that's something that's definitely tragic. The depressed scientist Bruce Banner being robbed of a normal suicide by gamma rays that wind up making him able to turn into a green monster of rage? That's bittersweet at it's worst moments, and kind of awesome at it's best moments.
"Actually Mary Shelly (who frankly should be more than Hollywood respected as the creator of the source material) referred to the creature as 'Adam'."
I disagree. I believe that while Frankenstein's roots in the book by Mary Shelly should never be forgotten the character of the monster has become larger than just the character in that one book. Other works in other medias have contributed just as much to the popular ideas of Fraknestein that are around today and as such can have just as much legitimacy in terms of impact.
That is why I never bought into the "he's not Frankenstein' thing, while technically true from a stric interpretation of the original book it ignores the character as he is today in popular culture.
In re. to Gareth: By your argument someone could decide 'Dracula in my story isn't really from Eastern Europe and he was really a proto-Communist' just because more people have seen movies and comics with Dracula than the original story. You have to respect the original creators or else the entire thing goes downhill.
"In re. to Gareth: By your argument someone could decide 'Dracula in my story isn't really from Eastern Europe and he was really a proto-Communist' just because more people have seen movies and comics with Dracula than the original story. You have to respect the original creators or else the entire thing goes downhill. "
Uhhh... you do realize that vampire mythology, as it extends back hundreds if not THOUSANDS of years before Bram Stoker's novel, is actually still different from the Stoker novel?
This stuff changes with every iteration. Hell, half the things that can kill vampires were made up later on.
Vampire mythology yes (though actually it's more recent than people think) but Dracula the character is a completely different matter.
If we're going to say that because there are other vampire characters it means that we don't need to take Bram Stoker's work into account whenever we speak about Dracula we should also say that because there are other stories about artificial humans and humanoids going back to Greco-Roman mythology we don't need to actually take any of the Frankenstein stories into account and we can just say that the creature was created by Daedalus.
I donno, if a wormy scientist ran up to me screaming "Don't stand there!" I would leave.
I know this is off-topic, but just in case you don't know yet
The new My Little Pony comic series by IDW is coming out this Wednesday
A comic that was completely sold out before it even got a proper release
A second printing was made, and from what I heard, stocks of it are already getting pretty low (good thing I pre-ordered mine right as the series was announced)
A preview, and all the (all in all 18!) variant covers can be viewed here
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=14369
(also, is it me, or is Fluttershy wearing a Wonder Woman costume on one of the variant covers?)
The major case against the monster being named Frankenstein is as simple as: it's kind of confusing. That results in two guys named Frankenstein. "Frankenstein's monster" is clearer. So, for that matter, is "Dr. Frankenstein," but considering that the monster is never referred to as "Frankenstein" in the source novel (and indeed his namelessness is thematically important), it's clear that the Frankenstein referred by the title is indeed the good doctor.
I loled at your riffing of the doom marine with the panel where the colonel was looking furious and a bit overly aggressively looking.
rip and tear, rip and tear you guts! XD lolzz
Okay, that last stinger... now you've GOTTA give your opinion on those two!
That's not the point of Secret origins month, but I think some retooled origins could provide some materials for reviews (you could argue that All Star Batman & Robin is already one, but it's really a Robin origin). A few Marvel examples :
- Frank Miller's "Man without fear" for example features Elektra as evil BEFORE her father is murdered and getting horny by beating street punks. Also, Matt accidentally kills a prostitute by shoving her through a windows and murders a thug by deflecting a bullet between the goon's eyes.
- Spiderman : Chapter One : Byrne barely changes anything but costumes (hideous new ones), retells previously self contained story and ends them with cliffhangers.
- Heroes reborn : only Iron Man had something new to tell. FF rehashed old Lee/Kirby storylines and Liefeld's company butchered Captain America and the Avengers
- Hudlin's "Who is the Black Panther" : this one I simply hate, especially since it came after Priest's fabulous run and disregarded any continuity. Plus the awesome Batroc ze Leaper, who went on countless fight against Captain America, is described as a dirty coward who surrenders immediately.
Silly Silly Stu,
"I heard the Peter David stuff was good though but it isn't in trade."
I was going to mention that I own #2 and #3 of these non-existent trades, but I got a call before I finished reading all the comments to tell me somebody had found #1 for me as well.
Hulk: Visionaries: Peter David.
They go up to about 7, I think.
CMWaters:
"2)How did Gargoyle get ugly again (since I do remember him from the 90s cartoon working with The Leader)?"
Cartoon continuity isn't comics continuity.
Um, Linkara, you used it sarcastically, but smoking near sensitive equipment actually DID work out really well for Jay Garrick.
Fermat's last theorem has been solved - very shortly after that NexGen episode (they even say so on the commentary).
"The major case against the monster being named Frankenstein is as simple as: it's kind of confusing."
Maybe I should've told my parents that before they gave me my last name.
And that's my point, when I make the same argument Linkara is making - that names pass down from father to son, and Victor Frankenstein is as close to a father as the monster gets.
*BUT* I also always add 'in lieu of another name', since he doesn't really have one... Okay, Adam, point taken. (I forgot, but I HAVE read the book.)
Speaking of...
"So, for that matter, is "Dr. Frankenstein," but"
If you're going to be a stickler for the book, don't call him Dr. He was a student - not even a medical student - when he built the thing in the book.
Tracey already mentioned this, but the fake female nerd thing likely comes from gamers.
I don't attend conversions, but in general, the last few years there has been a large boost to the popularity of gaming, that includes women.
Again, as already said, it's not something that effects just women, but it's men too. However, with women, it's easier to spot. Simply put, women were a rare sight in gaming. Now they are there in force, and are often ignorant of the subject. As such, chances are good that, if a woman is claiming to be a gamer, her only experience is minecraft and the sims, yet will claim to be all knowing experts on the subject.
This isn't helped by the current wave of radical feminism attacking gaming atm. Though I'm not sure how this leaked out to comics and cosplay though.
"Though I'm not sure how this leaked out to comics and cosplay though."
I assume it went it went the same way as with gaming
There's been a large number of superhero movies released since the 2000s, and the popularity of the characters and franchises has greatly increased
Many people can consider themselves fans of Batman or Iron Man nowadays, without ever coming into physical contact with a comic-book in their life
Nerds essentially start to feel like they are being evicted from their own safe-havens
That people who would normally spit in their face, are now taking claim to the very things they ostracized them for in the past, without having any true respect for it
When a comic convention becomes overrun by people who only know Aquaman due to the "Aquaman is lame" jokes, you just get the feeling that something is going terribly wrong with the world
I just read the DC series "Young All-stars" (a spin off of All-Star Squadron, post-Crisis continuity)) : there's an appearance of Frankenstein's Monster, stranded inthe Arctic, and he introduces himself as Victor Frankenstein 2, as he renamed himself after the man he considers his father (There again, it's a story where Arthur Gordon Pym became Captain Nemo and sank the Titanic).
"So, for that matter, is "Dr. Frankenstein," but"
If you're going to be a stickler for the book, don't call him Dr. He was a student - not even a medical student - when he built the thing in the book.
Touché... I had misremembered that Victor had completed his education before returning to Geneva, but apparently this is not so. But frankly I still don't see much benefit in stubbornly doubling down on what is, finally, a mistake --- thinking that the title refers to the creation not the creator. It's not hard to tell what gave rise to this mistake (the confusing title The Bride of Frankenstein, and Dr. Pretorius's announcement of the female monster in those terms), there's no good reason to keep it alive.
"And now you begin the slow crawl of having no buffer and having to wait week after week like everybody else! =D"
Actually rewatching videos serve nicely for monotone work or for drawing.
And right now you are helping me through a reaaally slow day at work, thank you. :)
"But frankly I still don't see much benefit in stubbornly doubling down on what is, finally, a mistake"
Fair enough.
"the confusing title The Bride of Frankenstein, and Dr. Pretorius's announcement of the female monster in those terms"
I still think it has more to do with the monster not having a full name of its own than anything else.
Combined with the passing down of family names.
That plush F-bomb is so cute! I want one XD
I am really a comics n00b so this is very interesting for me but I do think the movies have a better origin story because of the added plausibility. Yes it's the origin story of a massive green dude, which I won't pretend I don't have problems with, but being hit by a bomb that gives superpowers really is unbelievably ridiculous and makes you wonder how log it'll be before America is nuking whole armies to give everyone superpowers.
Hey my favorite heroe's origin was posted on my B day?
Well, I don't know about earlier material, but I can confirm that Quantum & Woody are consistently labeled within their own book as "the worst superhero pair ever".
A lot of people forget that Ultimate Hulk is the OPPOSITE of 616-Hulk. 99% of the time, the Hulk is not guilty of whatever rampage or whatnot is going on. He's misblaimed due to the real villains he stops. She-Hulk also tore to shreds Tony Stark's argument about the Hulk's danger, mentioning how he's saved the world a few hundred times.
That's all well and good, but the problem is that the monster's lack of proper name has become synonymous with his disconnection from society. Accepting that he has a name partially undermines the core theme of the novel.
Yeah, Frankenstein wasn't that scary, personally, I find Franken Fran more terrifying.
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