Monday, March 18, 2013

March of the Titans: The Titans #1-25



March of the Titans finally reaches the Titans! Immortals, nazis, and gorillas: AKA superhero comics.

85 comments:

Lucas Allen said...

Not much to say except love me some Weird Al! I hope he's planning on a new album pretty soon!

rdfox said...

...wait, Roy Harper can defeat villains who can normally beat entire teams of people who are individually more powerful than he is?

OH MY GOD, ROY HARPER IS SQUIRREL GIRL IN DISGUISE!!!

Anonymous said...

To be fair If I had sex with Donna Troy , I think I would have a stoke face also.

Anonymous said...

I had a dream last night that you were mad at me for watching German pornography instead of watching your show.

(I don't even watch German pornography!)

rick007 said...

Well Dark Angel worked for Jessica Alba for a few years.

Also I that "Slim Pickens riding the bomb in Dr. Strangelove" is a cliche now but sometimes you have have to go with the obvious joke

David page said...

oooh will you be doing graduation day which If I recall was the awful miniseries which ended this series and young justice?

kaingerc said...

nope sorry, got to disagree with you on this one, it's Dick\Barbara OTP.

just read "Nightwing annual 02"(2007) for confirmation.

(although it's understandable why you might think that since in the titans books it's always dick\kori but in the bat books it's always dick\barbara)

K. Cheng said...

Huzzah! You're still a Dick/Kory shipper (I remember your Titans #5 review when you mentioned it). For all of the nonsense on RHATO, I do love the various hints dropped that they had something special together and mean quite a bit to each other. Also, I was rereading the Flash #81-83 where Flash refers to those two as married. Supposedly this was before editorial changes meant that the wedding wasn't going to conclude happily, but I think Mark Waid's writing > Editorial hooey. I'm also really adore the little adorable ball of adorableness that is Lian Harper, and in my mind she's alive and well and excuse me I've started crying a bit. Anyway, can't wait to see your next video. I have Grayson's entire run and I'm wondering whether I should keep buying.

Shanethefilmmaker said...

Nothing against Starfire/Nightwing, but if you want that to happen in 52 you are gonna have to go through trucker Red Hood and Roy Harper. Personally I think it was kind of a dick move to put her in with Red Hood's Outlaw and I think it was a pissing contest between RH and Nightwing.

Red Hood: You may have stolen the Batman title from me in Battle of the Cowl, but I got your girlfirend in the reboot Nyah Nyah.

Still, it would make an awesome episode of Jerry Springer.

DWP102589 said...

This past week, I bought and read JLA/Titans off the DC Digital Comics App. It was awesome, and that's where many of you who couldn't find a copy should probably check.

Also, "Dark Angel"... really?

ngrey651 said...

While I did thoroughly enjoy the first twenty five issues of the Titans and found Lian to be just the sweetest little ball of cuteness you could ever find in a comic book...there is ONE issue that I have with the run, one thing that really, REALLY made me uncomfortable reading it. The Goth run. How it ends, I've no issue with because Kory's solution was very clever. I mean, instead of beating the villain by just punching him a lot, they use his own people against him and tear down his philosophy of not caring all at once. Great stuff!

BUT...it opens with a kid bringing a gun into school and...a school shooting. We don't even cut away to outside the school so we don't have to see the kid blasting his fellow students away. And then, later, the kid WANTS to go to Hell, so Goth tries to send him there and when that doesn't work, he slits the kid's throat. For we, the reader, to see in remarkably uncomfortable detail for such an act.

Because THAT'S why I pick up a superhero comic, right? To see kids barely into middle school getting their throats slit by a demon. And to see the walls of another school getting painted with the blood of a school shooting slaughter. Thank you, Titans. >.<

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Because THAT'S why I pick up a superhero comic, right? To see kids barely into middle school getting their throats slit by a demon. And to see the walls of another school getting painted with the blood of a school shooting slaughter. Thank you, Titans. >.< "

Yeah, and in light of recent events it seemed inappropriate to bring it up.

Finn Hutchinson said...

To be honest, I'm not upset by the lack of rage. Quite the opposite. I think you should consider talking about good comics more often.

Breno Ranyere said...

Deathstroke defeat the whole league by himself and got an arrow in the face by green arrow? Does that mean that cry for justice riped off identity crisis??? (the same thing happened with prometheus...)

harmonicajay said...

What did you think of the Return of Donna Troy? Personally, I liked it and it truly made me care about Donna Troy, having never really read anything with her.
Can't wait for next week.

Information Geek said...

Wait, Mark Buckingham drew this? Oh I recongize the guy from his work on Fables and yes, he is still great at facial expressions there as well.

Jesse Quick? Oh yeah, I remember her. She may not be in the main universe anymore, but she is in Ame-Comi Girls comic. Weird costume aside, she still rocks some awesome headgear.

Also, Lian Harper... she now has some new buddies to play with in the forms of Damian Wayne and Cliff Baker. DC is in a killing kids mood recently, also including what is going on with Ravagars...

One last thing to say, my god is Starfire's hair gigantic! Say what you will about Red Hood and the Outlaws (you said a lot already :D), but at least there she doesn't need to use a weed wacker to cut it!

DarthShap said...

I also consider myself a huge Teen Titans and Dick Grayson fan but I completely disagree with you on Starfire. She is just a very bland character, unlike Barbara Gordon who actually has a personality.

New Teen Titans is one of my favourite comic book runs ever (along with Moore's Swamp Thing, Gaiman's Sandman and Morrison's Animal Man, Doom Patrol and Batman) but the two main romances (Donna-Terry Long and Dick-Kory) did not really work because the characters had absolutely no chemistry.

renfid said...

who has more love interests,, nightwing, cyclops or spidey! great review as always btw

Kid Wicked said...

If your heart is black you better watch out!
You can not escape the team!
When they catch you there won't be any doubt!
You've been beaten by the teens...
Beaten by the teens...

T-E-E-N T-I-T-A-N-S
Teen Titans, let's go!
T-E-E-N T-I-T-A-N-S
Teen Titans, let's go!
T-E-E-N T-I-T-A-N-S
Teen Titans, let's go!
T-E-E-N T-I-T-A-N-S
Teen Titans, let's GO!!!!!!!!

DarthShap said...

Batman probably, with Nightwing as a close second.

John Pannozzi said...

Jay Faerber worked on Titans? Interesting. I mostly know him from his Image series Noble Causes and Dynamo 5, which have strong ties to Savage Dragon and Robert Kirkman's Invincible Universe.

PopCultureOtaku said...

This was a fun comic. Way better then current Teen Titans book. Every time lian came on screen I cried a bit watching this episode. F DC and their stupid Cry For Justice and their stupid reboots. Yes I know I keep ranting on reboot but god it makes me so mad what they have done to DC.
I got disagree too on Dick and Starfire. I use to be in that camp more over the years gone to Dick and Barbara camp.

Shanethefilmmaker said...

"who has more love interests,, nightwing, cyclops or spidey!" Nightwing. Let's do a head count.

For Spidey there was Betty Brant, Liz Allen, Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane, Black Cat, and Quesada's Daughter.

For Cyclops as far as I know, has Jean Gray and Emma Frost. (There could be more but that's the only ones I know.)

For Nightwing, Barbara Gordon, Donna Troy, Koriand'r, Rachel Roth (ya it was mind control but I think she really loved him so it counts.), Tarantula, Catwoman if you count the animated series, Kara Kent and Cheyenne Freemont. Not to mention he has inherited Bruce Wayne's billionare playboy lifestyle so dozens of actresses and supermodels that he may or may not have serious relationships with. And that's just the girls. Let's not forget even the guys want him too.

Gonzo said...

DC continuity gives me a headache.

Also, why is Garth of all people at a Red Lobster?

Theozilla said...

Very interesting retrospective. It is cool to see how this is your favorite comic series despite you admitting that it has quite a few flaws (a lot of them due to the shared universe aspect of DCU it seems). As for Nightwing's love life, while I like both Dick/Kory and Dick/Barbara, I personally prefer Dick/Barbara more.

One thing that I am little confused on though, while it makes sense that the villains want Adeline's immortal blood since she is type O, a universal donor. Shouldn't they have wanted Deathstroke's blood as well because in order for Adeline have received her original transfusion successfully Deathstroke would have also needed to have type O blood as well (since O can only receive O). Is that a plot hole in the story itself or were you just not able to fully explain that issue?

And damn does Donna Troy have a confusing backstory. I remember when reading Teen Titans/Outsiders: The Death and Return of Donna Troy (when I was reading the Johns era Titans run in trade) I was constantly going ??? whenever they were discussing her backstory (albeit the mini did do a admirable job of explaining her history); and this from a guy who had no trouble reading Batman R.I.P. (which was one of the first superhero and Morrison comics I read).

Speaking of the Outsiders, Linkara, how did you feel about the 2003-2007 run, since that book seemed to be the attempted spiritual successor to The Titans series after Graduation Day?

Anonymous said...

"And a space caterpillar eating parts of their history."

...So the DCU operates under the same rules as The Langoliers?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Speaking of the Outsiders, Linkara, how did you feel about the 2003-2007 run, since that book seemed to be the attempted spiritual successor to The Titans series after Graduation Day?"

"Trying too hard" comes to mind. Wasn't exactly bad in its early days, but it never quite recovered after the crossover with Teen Titans. Also wasn't quite happy with how they revived Brother Blood and I actually figured Jade was the traitor on the team since you could actually link a lot of the team's problems back to her.

DarthShap said...

"For Nightwing, Barbara Gordon, Donna Troy, Koriand'r, Rachel Roth (ya it was mind control but I think she really loved him so it counts.), Tarantula, Catwoman if you count the animated series, Kara Kent and Cheyenne Freemont."
I do not recall anything happening between Dick and Donna or Dick and Supergirl.
You forgot two important ones though: Huntress (Bertinelli on New Earth and Wayne on pre-Flashpoint Earth-2) and FlameBird/Bat-Girl (Kane).

Anonymous said...

Not sure if you heard this yet, but Snowflame was just recently arrested in Florida. It was on Nash's show this past week...

Are you going to bail him out?

-M4A

thorondragon said...

might have to check these out myself i think. soemday.

basically i do not like the idea of hypertime, or the multiverse there. at least in a fictional setting. basically my reasoning for that is, well, magic. We have this near perfect element standing over here that could be used to have these alternate realities exist without worrying about countdown or any of that insanity anymore. because you do not need science to have magic. true i am more than against the idea of Its Magic, but magic can still be illogical, perfect for the sustaining of an incrediblty confusing thing such as a multireality, yet have its own rule as well. i am agaisnt the idea of magic lightning returning everyone's pwoers, but i am not against magic being used as a force that can be accessed, used, but not truly understood. basically like how humans used fire without truly understanding it for millenia. however unlike fire, magic is beyond scientific understanding.

that is why i hate the idea of powr dampening collars affecting people with supernatural pwoers. how do you figure out how to dampen a power that science cannot even prove exists? hell also a reason why i am agaisnt the existence of the Power Cosmic. why should there be two magic like reality altering forces? it just makes thigns confused and stupid to be honest. like the most recent marvel civil war where a bunch of character gained the power of the Pheonix force and, despite the fact it was divided amongst them, they seemed MORE powerful than jean grey ever was. fucking emma frost beat up thor for god's sake, literally. now i am not agaisnt the idea of emma overwhelming thor, hell i prefer emma over thor, but what happened is she basically survived being shattered into tiny pieces, rained her diamnod hard body down on him, reformed and physicaly beat him...... the pheonix force does not provide enhanced strength nor the physical composition of lego block. hell techncially only emma should ahve been able to hold the power, as the other wielders of it weren't even psychic beings.
and back to i said. the fight should have been brutal and exhausting for both sides, and thor, who can take blows from an enraged hulk and keep fighting, gets beat up by emma frost with her kicking him.....
i don't care if we can have nazi's and sapient gorillas, comics far too often lead to that. hell even...... oh god i was about to bring up fuckign avengers arena again. DAMN YOU MARVEL!!!!

however that little bit of insanity, that civil war, did have a moment that made good old spidey, pre possession by docotr octopus's soul, shine liek gold. AT some point during the madness a bunch of heroes were captured and sent to a hell dimension by a character called Magik, who despite being a mutant has magical connections too, and who was also a pheonix force host, one of five. basically after one of the pheonix force users FINALLY got his ass handed to him, some contrived bullshit came up that the power he had was divided again amongst the other hosts. and this drove them even more cocopuffs that already happening. after this, a bunch of heroes, including wolverine and spiderman, went to rescue the captives.
they got them, but magik and collossus, the metal guy who also, some reason, had the pheonix force, figured out what was going on. spiderman heroically stayed behind to hold them off as long as he could, and gets beaten up pretty bad. however, showing that spiderman clever, and realizing how far gone their minds had gone, he tricks the two godlike mutants into realizing they would get more power if the other fell, and they immediately beat the wild fuck out of each other and both collapsed, albeit releasing theri parts of the pheonix force to the two remaining hosts.
Spiderman beat two beigns with a level of power that got thor beat, unrealistically, like a bitch using nothing but his mind games. smiles warmly. it was a horrid comic time, another thign that drove me away from comics, but that was just glorious.

Lizard-Man said...

Really? Someone uses the friggin second Annual of nightwing as a way to confirm a Batgirl/Nightwing OTP? That is the worst example of their relationship to bring up. Barbara gets crippled, then Dick comes back from space, sleeps with her and then tells her he only came over to invite her to his wedding with Starfire! All it proves is that Dick Grayson is a terrible boyfriend and he doesn't deserve either of them cause he's a man whore!

Really, I try to strike that annual from existence when I can. It's a stupid retcon and it totally shafts Barb and Kori just so Dick can add to his conquests.

Its almost as bad when it turned out Sentry slept with Rogue. And where the hell is Ares' funeral issue damn it!?! Good God did Seige have a shitty aftermath!

Sorry, tangent.

Pyrodafox said...

I am curious to know if Linkara ever read the Titan/Legion of Super-Heroes: Universe Ablaze mini-series and if he had any opinions on it. Part of me wonders why no one thought to have a crossover between the two teams before then, considering their oddly parallel histories (and the Legion was allegedly DC's second-highest selling book during the New Teen Titans' heyday.)

Anonymous said...

I can't wait for the next episode because...

Epsilon is the Big Dog
Top of the Line
Numero Uno.

Listen, he's the illest orb you know
The god of the Orbs
and Church is the name.

Nobody is better and you know you feel the same.

Nathaniel Towns said...

If I may make a remark about kids beimg murdered in comics, what do you expect when 10 year olds go up against evil psychopathic monsters.

It's like Mark Millar says: “If someone doesn’t have a bullet-proof vest like Superman and doesn’t have Batman’s millions then eventually he is going to turn around the wrong corner and get his head kicked in or get shot in the face." The only reason people like Robin survive their early years as sidekicks is because supervillains like to make big convulted plans, giving them plenty of time to escape or be rescued, instead of just shooting them upfront.

And as for the kids of superheroes, who do you think are the easiest targets for supervillains. Even if Lian Harper wasn't killed by Prometheus, sooner or later some other villain would have gotten their hands on her.

Jesse said...

Didn't Vandal Savage also create Hippolyta accidentally and thus create Wonder Woman as well?

I never understood WHY writers ever wanted us to try and sympathize or care about Cheshire. She NUKED a country. Doctor (Rape) Light and Superboy-Prime are more sympathetic than her. They at least had their characterization destroyed by it.

Still, The Teen Titans are great and their first 25 issues were fun. If I remember correctly I'll be screaming alongside you next week.

I feel your rage. *puts on red lantern ring* Want one? ;P

Doresh said...

You fool! Nightwing should never marry! Or do you want HIM to sell his soul for the devil XD ?!

Anyways, looks like an awesome run. All that's missing is an immortal Nazi gorilla from space XD

Seeing how Donna basically becomes a completely different character (at least origin-wise) every couple issues, one might suspect DC WANTED their continuity to become convulted - but that would assume their reboot was planned for years, which I highly doubt <_<

P.S.: Jesse has some awesome shades (⌐■_■)

Anonymous said...

Ugh, that stinger. I physically felt that one in my gut, Linkara.

Also, that guy in the Hypertime stream: DC!Cable?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Also, that guy in the Hypertime stream: DC!Cable?"

Rip Hunter, actually, during his 90s-period.

Micro4 said...

HOLY SWEET FREAKIN CRAP!!!!!
at the 15min mark i see what you mean Linkara! Starfires haris is larger then her entire body! My word there are 70's fros that at full size are smaller then that!

McCool said...

When I realised it was monday I was excited to see this. Really looking forward to next week. I inexplicably have the middle issues of this series and never continued them; can't wait to see what happened.

Also please give Gary Moore some props. He needs them.

doctordoom85 said...

So after watching this "summary", the book really intrigued me so I checked to see if any of the trades were still available for a reasonable price.

And it turns out there is not a single trade for this run. NOT A SINGLE ONE. :(

Well, thankfully DC has really picked up their game in the omnibus selection, so maybe, just maybe this could be omnibus-ed in the near future.

Jesse: I agree, I could never find comic-Cheshire sympathetic at all. That's why the Young Justice version worked so much better that way since she wasn't guilty of something so massive.

Sijo said...

Once again, thanks for filling me in on these Titans stories I missed, Linkara. I'm glad to find out that they were mostly good (except at a few points, like Donna's messed up past.) That plot of The Hive's (to lure heroes with a disater, then nuke them) is so good you wonder why it isn't used more often.

And BTW, it's actually nice to hear you express love rather than hate for a comic. But knowing what DC did to the Titans, I know the end of March of the Titans has to have some anger in it. -_-

FugueforFrog said...

I don't think they will ever get Donna Troy figured out...ever. If they did, then it would be the end of DC as we know it.

Fun episode, great bits regarding Batman and the powers of Roy Harper and poor Li-an. Should be fun to see how The Titans end.

And BTW: I still give it to Slim Pickens; he at least had the courage to get nuked...of course Dick Grayson was going to solve it, he's Batman's sidekick. (had to be said)

Shanethefilmmaker said...

I think I now realize what Donna Troy is, she's a Coralian. Let me explain. In Eureka Seven the coralains made a humanoid in the form of Eureka. She was supposed to observe the humans in order to find a peaceful resolution between the two species. However upon her creation she was nothing more than a blank slate. Her actions were defined by the people around her and in effect they wrote her. In the case of Donna Troy, the writers simply forgot what she was to begin with and just treated her like a blank slate. Hence why her origin is so jumbled all the time.

Paul Toon said...

Hi Linkara! Long time fan, first time posting. I would just like to bring something to your attention. During the Titan's History, you said this:

“These episodes are not gonna be my funniest.”

And yet, between the DC Editor battle in the last episode and the Batman being a dark loner bit in this one, I haven't laughed so hard at you episodes in a while.

Keep up the good work!

Tomatoisjp said...

It's funny... prior to going back and reading the whole series after your review of "Technis Imperative", I think the only issue I had of that series was issue 16. I think that issue was my first exposure to the Titans prior to Geoff Johns' reboot of the series a few years later, and it still stands up as one of my favorite comics of all time.

JB said...

DC trying to make its dark futures real : uh, no. The one-armed Green Arrow gets hinted once in Green Arrow #100 cliffhanger and that's it, the following issue killed off the character and contradicted DKR. It was just a shout out. A previous review explained the death of Donna Troy's son, and the current review here shows Nightwing and Starfire being separated, preventing their alternate/future daughter from being conceived. The Kingdom future was already screwed before Cry for Justice.

I just realised : Donna's kid died, Lian is killed, Tempest's baby was also smashed with Atlantis... Titan offspring is just as liable to die as the team members.

I love how the art is praise for not falling into the grinding teeth from the Dork age as the video cuts to Damage doing such a face.

No Avengers reference for the dinner scenes ?

I think Batman contingency plans to neutralize his partners were just revealed in JLA: Babel, and explained Victor's violent reaction and the team distrust in one another.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"I think Batman contingency plans to neutralize his partners were just revealed in JLA: Babel, and explained Victor's violent reaction and the team distrust in one another."

I'd have to recheck the publishing dates, but looking in the trade, when Flash talks to Nightwing about what happened, the only other Titans at the tower are the ones who were left after the four members left post-issue 20, sooo I'm inclined to say it was before then.

Rhodoferax said...

Wait... MARCH of the Titans. I just got that!

The way you describe hypertime to me sounds really ridiculous and confusing, a convoluted way for DC to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to alternate universes. Monstrous caterpillars notwithstanding, yes, proper alternate universes ARE much more sane and logical.

JB said...

"I'd have to recheck the publishing dates, but looking in the trade, when Flash talks to Nightwing about what happened, the only other Titans at the tower are the ones who were left after the four members left post-issue 20, sooo I'm inclined to say it was before then."

My bad, I thought the adult Titans had a reason to act all paranoid and violent when not under the influence of a silver age villain (unless the Gargoyle was reaching their base from its island or following the team around ?).

Greenygal said...

Titans #13 came out in March; "Tower of Babel" didn't start up till July.

I enjoyed this episode a lot; it reminded me of all the good parts of this run on Titans--like the warm Donna/Roy relationship and Kory mercy-killing Adeline and Jesse's critique of the team, oh but I miss Jesse--and I burst out laughing when we got to "because he was trained by BATMAN!" That storyline was the best, agreed.

(Of course I was also reminded of some of the non-good parts, like the completely nonsensical invasion of the Gordanians. Gah. And next week is going to include the Awful Jesse Story. *shudders*)

DataSnake said...

Wait a minute, isn't Vandal Savage immortal too? Why couldn't he just use his own blood for the immortality elixir?

Mad Andy said...

Huh. You know, when the video began, I momentarily forgot about Cyborg's new look, and thought that, for some reason, Gold from the Metal Men had joined the team and you just hadn't mentioned it. Even though I don't think that that team existed in continuity at the time.

Yeah.

Hmm, come to think of it, I wonder if that team had any influence on Cyborg's new look.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Wait a minute, isn't Vandal Savage immortal too? Why couldn't he just use his own blood for the immortality elixir?"

His immortality didn't come from his blood and he wasn't a universal donor.

Nevermore said...

"Wallace West" is Wally's legal name. Dark Flash went by WALTER West.

Sephiroth1204 said...

Very nice!
Glad you mentioned Slim Pickens at the end. :P
Also, that Thunderdome joke xD It was very unexpected. Made me slap my forehead. It's not often I'm surprised by jokes that much.

DMaster said...

"Wait a minute, isn't Vandal Savage immortal too? Why couldn't he just use his own blood for the immortality elixir?"
...said DataSnake at 08:01 20130319

Adding to what Lewis said: this ISN'T HEROES.

DarthShap said...

"DC trying to make its dark futures real : uh, no. The one-armed Green Arrow gets hinted once in Green Arrow #100 cliffhanger and that's it, the following issue killed off the character and contradicted DKR. It was just a shout out. A previous review explained the death of Donna Troy's son, and the current review here shows Nightwing and Starfire being separated, preventing their alternate/future daughter from being conceived. The Kingdom future was already screwed before Cry for Justice."

They are not seriously thinking about it but they most definitely want us to believe the dark futures are coming.
Just read Geoff Johns' entire second JSA run (for Kingdom Come), Meltzer's Justice League #0 (for DKR) or Geoff Johns' Sinestro Corps War (for Moore's Tygers).

DarthShap said...

"Huh. You know, when the video began, I momentarily forgot about Cyborg's new look, and thought that, for some reason, Gold from the Metal Men had joined the team and you just hadn't mentioned it. Even though I don't think that that team existed in continuity at the time.

Yeah.

Hmm, come to think of it, I wonder if that team had any influence on Cyborg's new look."

I would say it is definitely a possibility considering that a only few months prior to the Technis Imperative, Morrison had Superman Prime recreate Lois Lane out of Metal Men member Platinum in the awesome DC One Million crossover.

Andrew Sorohan said...

Just for the record: Marvel's Dark Angel

Y'know, just sayin'.
--Andrew S.

ImmaShapiro said...

So Kingdom Come is a big screw you to Rob Liefeld characters?

Anonymous said...

Awkward fact: March of the Titans is apparently the title of a white supremacist book and website.

Anonymous said...

Wow, I'm stunned by your defense of Jesse Quick's "costume." It's tactically purposeless, over designed, and would never be worn by a real combatant. With its stockings, bare arms and legs, and bare butt, it is forced onto the character to appeal to pornography addicts. You should be ashamed to call yourself a "feminist." What you are is a white, het, cis that can never understand the pain of those that have been Otherized, so you become an apologist and hide behind your privilege.

renfid said...

wait if deathstroke wife become inmortal for a blood transfusion and hers blood its 0 thats mean that the blood that she recive should be type 0 because in any other way she will reject it.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Wow, I'm stunned by your defense of Jesse Quick's "costume." It's tactically purposeless, over designed, and would never be worn by a real combatant. With its stockings, bare arms and legs, and bare butt, it is forced onto the character to appeal to pornography addicts. You should be ashamed to call yourself a "feminist." What you are is a white, het, cis that can never understand the pain of those that have been Otherized, so you become an apologist and hide behind your privilege."

Or, you know, I just like it aesthetically and didn't get into the feminist aspects of costume design in the series. Plus, since feminists hold different viewpoints about different things, costume design for superheroines being one of them, please don't presume to act as all-knowing judge and jury of what costumes are feminist and what aren't.

Anonymous said...

I will say that last comment (as of this one) by Anonymous seems to be rather vindictive and assumes the worst.

Personally I will say this. When I see women in costumes I prefer them to be practical, to cover parts of the body that general society demands be covered and to realistically help (or at least not hinder) them in action. With that said you can make arguments for and against Quick's costume.

As you said, it does show a good deal of her arms, legs and appears to be tight around her butt. This may have been deliberate for fan service. However by the same token that is not necessarily sexist nor useless. If her powers revolve around speed then she, like most male and female athletes (especially runners) would want to keep her legs bare and have a fairly tight pair of shorts to prevent her clothing from interfering from her running. Admittedly that might not be a great concern to a girl who runs at super speeds that might be able to damage the planet if she goes too fast, but that is the reality for athletes and may have been the contributing factor when her costume was designed.

Greenygal said...

I am less than thrilled with almost every costume Jesse's had, precisely because no one will give her a pair of pants. She finally had to steal a costume designed in the 1940s to get some. I would have more patience with the argument that it's sensible for runners if any of DC's male speedsters wore shorts. When Jesse at one point takes up a costume that's a copy of her speedster father's except it has no pants and a lower neckline, that's pretty blatant; Jesse is a female character, and she will show off her legs, because that's what female characters do.

All of that said, the costume she's wearing here is not particularly bad by comics standards, low bar though that is to clear. And I've always liked the headpiece with the visor.

Shanethefilmmaker said...

Quick's costume matches her personality. The Red and Yellow are a tribute to her own father which is heartwarming, as well as Wally West, since it was he who recommended her. Goggles on a costume often are an equivalent to glasses. In most fictionalized mediums that would state that she is extremely intelligent and she'd have to be in order to master the formula for speed force her father frequently uses. The Jacket represents the Era she was in the 90s without it being to extreme. Unlike what anonymous said it is useful tactically. Many superheroes rather than lugging heavy armor around often rely on their speed and reflexes to protect themselves from stuff that armor would normally nullify. Jesse prefers to wear light clothes so she can maneuver faster.

David 2 said...

I'm a little late getting to this, but I'm really enjoying this retrospect on the Titans. I got hooked on the team during the Brother Blood/Corrupted Raven storyline - back when Jason Todd was hanging around as Robin but wasn't really a Titan because he didn't want to get Batman angry.

I do want to mention that Donna Troy is one of my favorite DC characters, and I'm pissed that Dan DiDio has put her on the list of characters we should never see again (along with Wally West, Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown), which is why I can understand why you'll be pretty vocal during next week's review. Belive me when I say your rage will be shared when we get to a certain point.

Ozaline said...

My big problem with the idea that Batman is thought of as a myth ties into the shared universe thing... One day he'll be part of a high profile Justice League operation and probably be all over the national news and two days later some Gothamites will be debating if he even exists. Perhaps Gotham doesn't get CNN cause No Man's Land or something.

Ming said...

Interesting retrospective on first 25 issues on the Titans. Can't wait for the second half (and maybe the obligatory fake previously on recap).

Man, Donna Troy/Troia sure has one of the most confusing backstories, not helped by how she was originally created as a younger version of Wonder Woman. In light of the New 52, especially titles like Red Hood and the Outlaws, I have a feeling that Donna will be re-introduced as a teenage punk who turns out to be another of Zeus's illegitimate children.

Tantum Ergo 2 said...

I have to be honest... I'm still not sure why you liked these comics so much. I mean, sure, there's Lian. She's cute and all, and it's nice to see a father who's responsible enough to take care of a little girl all by himself. Plus, as you said, there are lots of character bits.

However, the main reason I got out of comics during the dark age was that the heroes just weren't being that heroic anymore. Characters rarely had had fun with their pals anymore, teams rarely worked well together, even by the end, and characters were always bickering (and not just good-natured ribbing, like the Fantastic Four,) about their personal issues, as if they simply lacked the maturity to put their own feelings aside and get the job done.

Also, they frequently did bad things and suffered little consequences for them, like, say, human cloning and first degree murder...

As many ups as this book has, I'm afraid that for me, the downs are just outlined so much more clearly. I love stories about different personality-types having character development, and I also love stories about characters being heroes, but if these issues had both, you didn't really highlight the latter.

That said, the character bits and heroism -can- be done together, and this has been done numerous times. "JLA: Year One," for example, was all that and a bunch of cool, bizarre plot-lines about elementals invading Earth and people losing bodyparts due to a raygun. Comics that focus more on just the bickering are really what made me the cautious, jaded comic fan I now am. I guess I can appreciate what you liked about them, but I agree with you about the issues having problems.

Shanethefilmmaker said...

"My big problem with the idea that Batman is thought of as a myth ties into the shared universe thing... One day he'll be part of a high profile Justice League operation and probably be all over the national news and two days later some Gothamites will be debating if he even exists. Perhaps Gotham doesn't get CNN cause No Man's Land or something."
They could attribute his appearance on the news to be no different than seeing UFO sightings or Bigfoot. Some say they see him, others would say it's just a guy dressed in a Batman costume that was passing through, while the rest would think that the news guys digitally added him in with after effects to boost their ratings.

Ozaline said...

"Shanethefilmmaker said...

They could attribute his appearance on the news to be no different than seeing UFO sightings or Bigfoot. Some say they see him, others would say it's just a guy dressed in a Batman costume that was passing through, while the rest would think that the news guys digitally added him in with after effects to boost their ratings."

So Gotham City is full of conspiracy theorists then; to them the Batman's not real, just like the Moon Landing, or Obama being born in the US?

Huh, criminals really are a supersticious and cowardly lot

le-messor said...

Your talking about how important expressions are reminds me of a recent run from Uncanny X-Men, where the characters were grinning constantly. I don't know what they were going for, but it just looked creepy.
The twist? A change of artist didn't solve it. (The second was Greg Land.)

You also touch on another trope that's been bugging me in more recent comics (though I think we're getting away from it) - that they constantly make the non-powered characters more powerful than the powered characters. So, Batman can take out Galactus. Deathstroke (technically powered, but only technically) can take out Dark Phoenix. Puck can defeat Darkseid. etc...
When the creative teams kept doing that, it was like they didn't know why I was reading comics about people with powers.

McCool... Gary Moore's doing all right, I think. I mean, Thin Lizzy's getting back together an' all. Also, Over The Hills And Far Away (no relation to the Led Zeppelin song) was a traditional ballad before he covered it.

~ Mik

Alex Stritar said...

You know what the big problem with Batman being a myth in the shared universe? Why is Batman so unbelievable when Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern are common knowledge? Even with most people not knowing he's just a normal guy in a bat costume, he still isn't that unbelievable. Shadowy figure of the night beating up wrongdoers? That's not likely in this world where aliens invade every other Wendsday and guys with green power rings do battle with guys with living tatoos in the street on weekends.

McCool said...

le-messor - Gary Moore has been dead for two years. And his Over the Hills and far away was an original song, it has nothing to do with the folk song.
Sorry for silly spam linkara :p as a belfast native I have to defend Gary Moore.
Also I have no idea what epsilon did but you didnt sound too impressed. I always though he seemed pretty cool.

Volvagia said...

Alex Stritar: Well, there is a fully reasonable (out of book) explanation for this decision: The first issue was released in 1999 and DC editorial was probably writing Batman as an urban legend to distance themselves from Joel Schumacher's Batman & Robin.

Le Messor said...

McCool - entirely my bad, that's what I get for not doing my research. :-/

I've heard the original was a traditional song, thought it was true. (TBH, I've only heard the Nightwish version, though.)

~ Mik

Michael Clayton-Brown said...

Now you see that *gestures to first issues of series* why can't more comic series I come across have artwork like that, I absolutely love it.

Note: I'm sure there are other comics out there that have the same style but considering I live in a small northern town in England the chances of me finding a comic book shop are...well...zero. Shame really, I know there are online distributors, heck the vast sum of comics I get are from DC's iPhone app which no doubt gives me no excuse but online is a big place, much easier to find books on shelves than trawling through 50 pages of a site ^^;; but that's just me.

Enigma_2099 said...

Mark Buckingham? The same Mark Buckingham that worked on some issues of Spider-man?

Not a big fan.

le-messor said...

Enigma 2099 ~
I'm not doing my research again, so I really, really don't know, but is it possible you're getting confused with Mark Bagley? (I know he's done Spider-Man issues, is all. I don't know if Mark Buckingham has or not.)

~ Mik

le-messor said...

McCool: I've listened to Gary Moore's Over The Hills and Far Away now, and it rocks!
Linkara, next time you feel like using the song for the blood-stirring, exciting adventure you used it for here, consider the original. (Much as I love Nightwish.)

~ Mik

Cat C said...

That mandate that stated they couldn't reveal that the Future Titans were the kids of the current ones is just weird.

You ever get the feeling that some editors want to pretend that characters never have sex and/or become pregnant? It makes me think of how often condoms aren't mentioned in TV programs (the ones that aren't on pay cable channels) because it's believed that acknowledging the characters are having sex by talking about them causes more viewers to have sex/think about sex then just heavily implying it.

Which is stupid but I don't make the rules for US TV.

The more and more I learn about Leann, the more I want to smack the writers and editors of Cry for Justice in the face with a frying pan... that's on fire.

And I didn't mind the few weeks that were less than your usual angry self. I loved this trip down memory lane and learning more about the team that influenced one of my favorite cartoons.

Anonymous said...

Since Donna's kid got killed off long before Cry for Justice, I'd say CFJ is not the (only) reason this future would never come to be.