Sunday, May 24, 2009

VLOG 5-24-09: Retcon THIS!








Box_In_The_Box's original post can be found here.
Scanned strip from the Comics Curmudgeon.

This isn't to say I'm not giving up on seeing it retconned back in the main universe, but hey, a victory's a victory. Thanks again to all who let me know about this! ‎

31 comments:

Philosophista said...

And Ben Reilly lives again...

Queen Anthai said...

You adorable little man.

Anonymous said...

yeah the thing i never under stood about omd is why didn't peter tell the devil to save his parents from dieing. maybe screwing up his entire life where he ends up not getting bit by a spider, but at least he'd be emotinally stable for mary jane, or maybe he could make a deal to make mary emotionally stable. or maybe he could have gone back to save his uncle. or even go back in time and get a zillion dollars and he can by the bugle and get millions to give him the respect he deserves. and he could have robot spider suits like iron man and stuff. i know there was one parallel dimension that went something like that. seriously if he had all the money he needed he wouldn't have had been wrestling to try and get some extra cash and his uncle would have never got shot. ARGH IT MAKES NO SENSE HE WOULD ONLY ASK TO GET MARY JANE BACK!! or that he would even make a deal at all with the devil, i mean a freaking gene would've sufficed. im sure dr strange has a few lamps he could rub. then he would've gotten 3 wishes instead of just one, i personally would wish that i could make more wishes then wish for more wishes thus negating any restriction on 3 rules :D

Lew the Sweater Guy said...

Take not, Joe Quesada! This is why Stan Lee is, and forever will be, THE MAN!!!!

Stacy said...

Linkara, who's the world gonna believe?

The guy who created Spider-Man?

Or the guy who created Ash?

'Nuff said.

Stac

Trevor P. said...

The Brand New Day story isn't over. Have you ever known a devil deal to play out exactly as the mortal thought it would. In the end, Something similar to this will happen to Peter in the comic book storyline.

Stacy said...

Addendum: The guy who co-created Spider-Man. All respect due to Steve Ditko, that magnificent Randian loon.

Trevor, I'd love to believe that Marvel's got a plan for the whole OMD/BND thing, but let's take a moment and be honest with ourselves. It's the comicbook equivalent of the Chewbacca Defense. It. Does not. Make sense.

For this reason I've transferred my wall-crawler fanboy flag to Miguel O'Hara, Spider-Man 2099.

Feelin' fine in 2099,

Stac.

Ps. The original Spidey '99, not the Exiles version or this new tweenage version. Accept no substitutes.

playah said...

And it was done becouse of the fan letters. Everyone wants MJ back and Stan Lee at least listens to his fans. Unlike some other duche we know...

Stacy: I honestly hated Miguel O'Hara in Exiles. God, he was so useless and boring, the only reason why they put him there was becouse they needed better marketing, and they already had a team (world) full of Wolverines by then.

Anonymous said...

At least we've got Spider-Man 4.

This is off topic but I gotta ask about Cass Cain again: I heard the original Batgirl was gonna take her place. Isn't this, I dunno, a major insult to all the fans hoping that DC would retcon all the stuff that happened to her origin story (now she hates her father, now she saw death on a daily basis BEFORE running away etc.)? NOW they have an excuse to use her less frequently than Megalith.

Tecknic said...

If it's one thing that Stan Lee is better at then most anyone else, it's making sure that his fans stay happy. The retcon was hugely unpopular, and Stan is paying attention.

cferra said...

I have the same reaction, man. Wow. That is just...WOW. I just wish my paper carried Spidey.

mightysamurai said...

"And it was done becouse of the fan letters. Everyone wants MJ back and Stan Lee at least listens to his fans. Unlike some other duche we know..."

One of the commenters over at Box_In_The_Box thinks Stan did it on purpose as a subtle "take that!" at Joe Quesada.

Anonymous said...

I'm particularly fascinated by that last panel, were Peter Parker: Boy Genius, upon the realization that he is married to a nubile redhead wearing nothing but a towel has a reaction like he's not sure wether or not he needs to sneeze.

We can only hope that MJ sticks. My cynical sense is telling me that this could all too easily be dream-wiped again.

Oh but c'mon, who would be that shameless? ...

Anonymous said...

Is no one else concerend that Peter called his wife his Aunt and she seemed fine with it, Dare I say she enjoyed it? Something smells fetishy in the Parker house.

Truce Weston said...

awesome! and your reaction was priceless!!!

Anonymous said...

I'm just going to say it...I firmly believe Joe Quesada should stay the course and keep OMD/BND intact.

Why? Because Peter doesn't deserve MJ back. This is a man who disregarded his aunt's dying wishes out of selfishness and threw his wife and daughter under the bus to sate his own guilt. He's already shown that when the chips are down, the only person Peter Parker truly loves is himself. He had no qualms about guilt-tripping MJ into going along with the Mephisto deal, even though she was the one who was going to suffer the most for it. Why should he be rewarded with getting her back? He didn't value their marriage enough to fight for it the first time around. What makes anyone think he'd be any different a second time around? Why should he be rewarded for making a deal with the devil at the expense of his wife and aunt? That's essentially what restoring the marriage would be.

Further, why should MJ take him back? When she pointed out it was May's time to go, we got the infamous lines about how he couldn't live with the guilt of being a party to her death and his spiel about how he needed MJ to make the deal with him. His commitment to her has already been exposed as a sham. Taking him back after that would make her a doormat. She'd be setting herself up for another betrayal. And again, why reward Peter by giving him back the wife he sold out in the first place?

No, Marvel needs to put its foot down and stay the course. This isn't at all like Hal Jordan's conversion to Parallax, where it came completely out of nowhere, was described in-story as a horrible thing, and had enough ambiguity that it could be clarified as brainwashing/possession. Peter's actions were just pure selfishness, 100%, and they were set up from the start. There's no way to explain this away as mind control or him not being in his right mind. Peter was ready and willing to do this. As such, he doesn't deserve MJ back, and I have no desire to see him get rewarded for making a deal with the devil by having the woman he betrayed take him back. He deserves a Faust-like punishment, not MJ.

mightysamurai said...

Anonymous,

Your make a lot of good points from a narrative viewpoint, but comics are somewhat unique in the world of fiction in their high tolerance for retroactive continuity. It's not like with most other types of fiction where subsequent writers are forced to work within the boundaries set by the previous writers. Comic book writers have wiped entire worlds out of existence and brought them back again with a wave of a hand (sometimes quite literally).

In fact, that's the very essence of a retcon. To make it like it never happened at all. That's all they have to do. They don't have to just "give" Peter his wife back, all they have to do is retcon OMD completely out of existence. Make it all a dream, use a time machine, have the first ever Marvel Crisis Crossover event, just something to make it all go away so we can pretend it never happened.

Hell, I'd settle for some Marvel exec. hold a press conference and say "Hey guys, that whole One More Day thing? Not canon. Never happened. Quesada's getting fired next month."

Anonymous said...

"Your make a lot of good points from a narrative viewpoint, but comics are somewhat unique in the world of fiction in their high tolerance for retroactive continuity. It's not like with most other types of fiction where subsequent writers are forced to work within the boundaries set by the previous writers. Comic book writers have wiped entire worlds out of existence and brought them back again with a wave of a hand (sometimes quite literally)."

I find myself increasingly unable to forgive and forget when characters are turned into complete jerks or unsavory monsters that we're supposed to root for. I might have been able to let Batman's portrayal as a total Marty Stu jerk in Frank Miller's stories lie if DC didn't latch onto them as the default incarnation of the character. But since they just won't stop making Bruce Wayne the biggest jerk walking who can even kill God with enough "prep time" and constantly distrusts/plots against his allies, that character is dead to me now. I could have let Lois Lane's slide into being emotionally abusive and/or unfaithful to Superman (even Ron Frenz admitted she was cheating with Jeb Friedman at a recent con) if it was a one-time screw-up. But DC keeps playing the abusive shrew card with her (her self-serving rants against the Atom in TRINITY being the final nail in the coffin for me), or at the very least making her family an endless source of misery for Superman, and as such I have no use for her anymore. Yeah, you can pretend it didn't happen with a retcon, but those stories still exist. And if that bad treatment of the characters becomes the default version of them and goes on for years at a crack, that's a lot of goodwill thrown away. I can only take so much before my tolerance for the characters is gone.

With Peter Parker, Marvel crossed the line for me. Even if they retcon this, I'll never accept it, because they'll still have had their flagship hero commit possibly the worst act he could and portrayed it as something to celebrate. Going back to "Emerald Twilight," while DC wanted you to feel sad for Hal Jordan, they made it clear in-story that what he was doing was wrong. They didn't justify his rampage; it was a tragedy and portrayed as such. That I'm fine with. But when Batman acts like a jerk or Lois is being abusive or Peter sells his wife and daughter out to the devil against his aunt's wishes, we're expected to root for them. That's not something I can forgive and forget. It only makes me hate the characters and want nothing to do with them. They can retcon all they want, but once you throw away your audience's goodwill, you've lost them. And they've lost me in all three cases.

Anonymous said...

MJ LIKES being called "Aunt May", lol...considering a wife is meant to be your "everything", and given that MJ always loved Peter and was the girl next door...being associated with a mother-figure who takes care of her hubby aint all that bad in her eyes.

It's gotten to the stage now that the dailes and Spider-Girl have more relevance than Spidey. Why can't Marvel just make the Ultimate Universe the mainstream one and leave 616 alone? The well is virtually dry there now.

Anonymous said...

LOL, still, I con only hope that there is some sort of Karmic whiplash and we get a freaking uber sweet Spidy stories from OMD.
Hey, it wouldn't be the first time in a comic something really good came from something really bad.

Ranchoth said...

MJ not being surprised that Peter would call her "Aunt May" in bed?

That actually DOES explain a few things about the edito——er, Peter's motivations in the storyline, when you think about it, doesn't it? ;D

Queen Anthai said...

To Anonymous #1, who said: yeah the thing i never under stood about omd is why didn't peter tell the devil to save his parents from dieing.Because that wasn't an option. It wasn't Peter's choice at all. Mephisto approached him and said "Here's the deal. I save May's life, and you're not married anymore." He wasn't granting a wish; he was giving Peter one option.

DigiRanma said...

"Hell, I'd settle for some Marvel exec. hold a press conference and say "Hey guys, that whole One More Day thing? Not canon. Never happened. Quesada's getting fired next month.""

Oh, I'd be happy with that one, really I would.

Anonymous said...

Though I also wish this was the mainstream universe. I'm sure it will be fixed eventually, but for now...

HAH! Take that, Joe Quesada!

Anonymous said...

I don't like it but Joe Quesada has managed to do this perfectly. You want to rescue Peter Parker as someone who tries to be responsible. Remember that MJ whispered something to Mephisto.

To rescue Peter all you have to do is show that his memories are false, and that it was MJ who made a deal with the devil.

Basically he's saying make a choice in a simple way. You can rescue Peter's core or the marriage not both.

David

Xander Kannon said...

I would like to thank you, Linkara, from the bottom of my heart, for this.
I had a terrible day last week when I saw this, and this immediately skyrocketed my mood.

Anonymous said...

"I don't like it but Joe Quesada has managed to do this perfectly. You want to rescue Peter Parker as someone who tries to be responsible. Remember that MJ whispered something to Mephisto.

To rescue Peter all you have to do is show that his memories are false, and that it was MJ who made a deal with the devil.

Basically he's saying make a choice in a simple way. You can rescue Peter's core or the marriage not both."

The problem is that we still have the scene of Peter guilt-tripping her into making the deal. If we go with your scenario, it makes MJ the fall guy and blames the victim for what happened. Peter gets off scot-free and MJ's the one who suffers for it. Either way, Peter doesn't have to take responsibility for what he did. We can just transfer the blame to MJ and tarnish her to make Peter look good. What a way to treat the woman who was easily the best wife a superhero could ever ask for, ain't it?

No, I don't think the marriage can or should be saved, because even if the Mephisto deal gets undone, it's still Peter who wanted to make the deal. It's still Peter who refused to accept responsibility for his actions and forced MJ to take the bullet. Why should he be rewarded with MJ? And why should MJ take back theguy who threw her under the bus out of pure selfishness? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Even if the deal gets undone, the marriage should never be brought back. Peter committed the ultimate act of betrayal, and he should not be forgiven for it. And frankly, we know that Quesada would blame it all on MJ (because Peter is his Marty Stu and all), and who wants to see the victim blamed for her ex's actions? Not interested in the least.

Anonymous said...

I know, I agree it can't be saved, and it is a sexist way to do it but I meant that everything peter did wrong even the guilt trip he placed MJ would be a false memory.

Not interested? Me neither.

Really what shoudd have been done is a good death scene. and hide the marriage afterwards.

You don't like the direction. Stop buying Spiderman.

It' time to admit Quesada has won, and refuse stuff that comes from dmage to Peter's core. Or refuse all things Spiderman .

SpazzMaster said...

Ah, the ol' "it was all a dream" trick. Oh how convienant it is.

Anonymous said...

Pardon me, but...I don't know how this is a "victory", or if it's supposed to be good or bad. The strip itself looks dumb...but how is it a "victory", and why retcon it into the main universe? I just...don't understand.

Anonymous said...

Man I love that psychotic laugh of your's