Monday, August 20, 2012

Catwoman: Guardian of Gotham #1



"I am vengeance! I am the night! I am... a really crappy Elseworlds story!"



132 comments:

ChrisPV said...

So, I was gonna ask why in the hell Selina was dressed like that on the cover, and then I saw Jim Balent's name.

Question withdrawn.

Cenobite829 said...

I watched this on blip but I got to say I love that you are tearing this apart. IT was a horrible idea to have Catwoman as the guardian of Gotham. It just doesn't work.

While you have talked about two of my favorite Elseworld tales, Kingdom Come and Superman: Red Son, can you suggest any other really good elseworld tales?

Also I love the twist that you are becoming evil. It think it explains what is going on with the HoloLinkara. Keep up the great work.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque said...

IIRC, Moench got his big break in comics working on the title Shang-Chi: Master of Kung Fu, in the 70s. He's had a fairly long career in comics, actually. I'm not sure when he lost his mind, but he's got too broad a career to lump all of his stuff in the same category as his terrible Elseworlds stories.

Or S.C.I.-Spy. I don't know what the hell that was supposed to be about.

Anonymous said...

Wow. This storyline just took a pretty interesting turn. Not that it wasn't before, but this is just getting better.

As for the actual comic, that looks really bad. I partly feel upset that all those villains aren't actually seen, but the way things were with Two Face, I can just imagine Scarecrow would be a girl who got pranked by some friends and decided to kill them all as revenge.

Something in this comic confuses me though. Why would the maybe-Batman-thug decide to take a plastic ring? Does he not know the difference between regular jewelry and plastic? Even if he didn't know when he first saw it, holding it should have at least made him realize it was plastic. If it is Batman, does he just take something from people he kills like the regular Batman has his mementos?

Yugnat said...

I don't know if that's just me, but I feel like the ending also explain why why the magic gun doesn't work. It was said that the spell was directed at Linkara's magic, however the magic gun was not created by Linkara. This is just mere supspicion, but I think the girl's spirit inside the gun felt that Linkara was turning evil, and therefore didn't want to be his partner anymore (or, at least, refused to work, so that he wouldn't do any damage with the weapon).
As I said, mere suspicions.

Gears said...

Holy Crap man! That was awesome! Love it how the great wizard is all 'you are a moron' to you.

Great to know Margret's name now~!

Hi Margret~! *waves*

Oh and good luck on the whole 'turning evil' thing.

areoborg said...

I don't see what the big deal is. I can bend my spine like that. Watch!

*CRACK!!!!!*

Owww.......

Anonymous said...

Fabian Nicieza was also the longest writer on the Thunderbolts, and that book has a long good run. Props to Kurt Busiek as well for creating the team.

Jimmy Styles said...

Hilarious.

Back in the 90s, Jim Balent wrote a how-to feature for Wizard #61.
What was the feature about? Why how to draw women of course!

I wish I was making this up.

Anonymous said...

Linkara you have a very strange imagination when it comes to Catwoman. After all big cats are considered some of the most powerful and terrifying creatures alive. Even a house cat is more frightening, and more deadly, then a bat.

Also what exactly did Lupa do for this review.

bruno said...

to be honest, i've never really liked catwoman as a character. i feel like she doesn't have any personality and i feel like the writers just use her to 'distract' me with her sexuality

Information Geek said...

To be fair to Mister Moench, he did have a hand in writing Batman: Knightfall and Prey. So clearly he is a good writer... when he is confined to the regular DC universe and not Elseworlds.

LucasChad said...

I think you made plenty of us fans of golden age horror movies very happy when you talked about the original Cat People from the one and only Val Lewton! However given the time the comic was made, it could've been they were watching the 1982 remake with Malcolm McDowell. Then again, why would Selina's parents would take her to an R-rated movie involving sex, nudity, violence, and torture? Just an afterthought!

I bet you have the 14:59 album because I'm a Sugar Ray fan myself. I wish the band would get back together for a new album.

D-doc said...

Wow, while I have heard things about this, that was even worse than I have imagined. I am now glad I made the decision to not buy this a while ago.

So Holo-kara is basicaly a you that is further down the road to corruption?

Lizard-Man said...

To Anonymous: While it's true bats aren't truly dangerous creatures they are still more engrained as terrifying beasts of the night in our minds. Cats meanwhile aren't scary anymore, the fact is the closer you get to a kitty the lower your brain functions become. They're cute now, not scary. A bat represents the night, represents fear, represents terror in many cultures and societies. Cats don't represent the same things a bat does.

Also Lupa did the voice over for that "Hero gotham Deserves" part.

Anyway I really dislike this idea just on the art alone. But the story makes me queasy. I hate seeing Batman portrayed like this, it's not interesting it's just boring. You made him a 90's character, hooray. XP

Also, you think the reboot has written Fortunate Son completely out of the continuity even more so now Lewis? Because as nice as the joke is I always get a bit depressed being reminded Batman once hated Rock N' Roll.

Jordan Royter said...

You know, as an amateur artist, and I use the word artist, very loosely. I've hardly drawn women, but I'd like to think that if I'm drawing them to be, cool, looked up to, and idolized. Then I wouldn't draw them as porn materiel!
Unless it was actual porn!
Yeah, this comic really sucks.
Great job sir, thank you again.
And BTW, this story just got really interesting.

Jen95 said...

Can't say I'm exactly surprised by that revelation. I mean, Linkara's magic stops working directly after he gives a "Nothing can stop me now!" speech. But still: craaaaap.

On the upside, next week: Previously on Atop the Fourth Wall segment! Yaaay! *flails like Kermit*

After that bit with the cat face superimposed on the cover with Lupa doing the Paw-Paw voice, I really want to see a Linkara and Oancitizen crossover, two of my favorite reviewers! What about a bad comic book adaptation of a work of Shakespeare?!

Peace1986 said...

Wow, I think I called it at the first appaerance of the Gunslinger when I compared Linkara's claim to power to the Tenth Doctor's Timelord Victorious.

Power corrupts. After all wasn't Lord Vice full of good intentions when he set out.

Jigglysaint said...

To be fair, it doesn't surprise me that Linkara would be turning evil. When you get down to it, he is pretty arrogant, especially boasting about stealing Lord Vyse's spaceship and all his gadgets and stuff. I could figure out where the storyline is going, but I'm not up to speed on Star Trek things and I don't think I caught the finale of the last Dr Who :)

Jesse said...

Did Bruce and Selina switched parents in this or something? Is that why she's rich and he isn't?

Prolonged exposure to the Nostalgia Critic will turn EVERYONE evil.

Hanging around Bennett The Sage doesn't help either.

Anonymous said...

Huh.. You know, I was just thinking that Linkara had become cocky and was taking his magic and the gun for granted, but him turning evil actually answers a lot of questions (mostly about the hologram's behaviour), all we need now is an explanation for why he's turning evil.

it's pretty sad when the proffesional artwork reminds me of when I draw something, and I take one look at it and go "no, no. Erase that, and try again!"

PopCultureOtaku said...

I got this one right too. I said that pretty much that whole speech before his magic disappeared was why it did. It seems to be true. If gun is hearing that speech and thinking he is going evil. Now yes I didn't say he was going evil but still same vain.
To the comic. Bad 90s elseworld shlock I forget about. I have no problem Tarot comic but yeah this is one is bad. Though right before I watch this video I was watching wrestling dvd. I was thinking after watching video some of these females might be very flexible like female wrestler MsChif. Look up what Amazing/Awesome Kong aka Kharma did to her on shimmer show and not say that is not possible.

Robyn said...

Oh, lovely, another badly written story about Selina. I love her character, really I do, but I hate what's done to her in some of the comics I've read. Not to mention the art. Yikes. Including the proportions and corset, I don't like her obviously iron-curled hair and the lipstick she has to put on. I mean, what if there was an emergency and Catwoman was needed? The seconds spent putting on make-up would waste time and could get someone killed.

Of course, I could say the same thing about Batman's eye shadow in the movies...

I'm glad to hear the return of your singing voice. Even with silly lyrics.

Regarding the storyline, if Linkara loses his powers because he's evil, does that make him a paladin/cleric-like spellcaster? Or are his spells/gear based on his alignment? The Cthulu-looking dice made me think of D&D rules when it came to magic.

boooratt said...

Wow this was dumb! I've heard of this Elseworlds title a few times on list of Elseworlds stories. I do kind of hope you'd do like an Elseworlds and What if... month as they're all little short self contained stories. And I got a huge stack of old 90s Elseworlds comics(mostly Batman and Superman stories) and quite a few suck and as you put it in your opener have very promising setups. Like a good one I want you to review is a Justice League one where Earth is taken over by aliens.
Wow, I do gotta admit a lot of this comic seems like an adult fanfic with all the more dirty stuff cut out... Am I the only one thinking that there was a porn scene in the Cat-Cave with "Brooks"!?
This comic is really messed up on it's concept of the switched roles thing... TwoFace is gender swapped but all the other famous batman villains are still male and seem to be mostly the same as their mainstream counterparts in this world... so why did TwoFace get a gender change?
The suit Gordon is wearing in that scene looked like some sort of SS Nazis suit or para-military garb! Like something that modern Miller would do!
I do gotta agree that the fuzzy breast plate Catsuit was a bit weird.
I got the Sugar Ray reference as Sugar Ray Lenard is a pretty big name. He was famous for being able to strike you 3 times in the face and you never see it coming.
But, I do like the band Sugar Ray's music too! Love that song you used there!

Ok, who was Steve?
So you're turning evil? Welcome to the club! Coffee and cake are in the corner! Pull up a chair next to the Guardians of the Universe!

SynjoDeonecros said...

So you're turning evil. Big deal. It's not like it's a bad thing. I've got a character who is gleefully evil. Then again, he is an alchemist whose view of "evil" is making a porn website filled with nothing but decidedly mundane object pictures, so your mileage may vary with that.

Jarkes said...

So, who played the Wizard Steven and his (presumably) wife in the stinger?

E. Wilson said...

You know what my real problem with this comic is? If the entire premise is that you're going to have a Gotham City with Catwoman as the protector instead of Batman, then you shouldn't change Catwoman's origin and character to make her more like Batman. That...kind of defeats the whole point.

Aside from all that, what are your thoughts on Moench's actual Batman writing? I'd hardly read any of his material until DC put out the new Knightfall collections, which are split between Moench, Chuck Dixon, and Alan Grant. And while Dixon's definitely my favorite writer of the three, Moench's stuff in there is pretty solid.

("Terror" sucked, though.)

Anonymous said...

What's with all the Creator Hate against Doug Moench? Batman: Prey is one of the greatest Batman comics ever. It seems as though you're casting him in an unfair light intentionally by not bringing up his critically lauded and commercially successful titles. BTW, the only reason Marvel beat out DC was because, while DC's average comic is under three bucks, Marvel's comics are sometimes almost five dollars. Without sales tax.

geektality said...

Seems as though you stretched the facts regarding Two-Face's origin. Harvey was a closeted serial killer who, in his first appearance, was NOT mentally damaged. And yes. I am going by the Canon origin, as printed in Batman: The Long Halloween.

Volvagia said...

Jen95: It doesn't necessarily have to be a Shakespeare adaptation. Ang Lee's VERY pretentious Hulk movie would work as well. (I actually appreciate it, but freely admit it's quite full of itself.) As for the previously on Atop the Fourth Wall...think something based around gender flipping.

E. Wilson said...

@ Geekality: Whether or not Harvey was the killer in TLH is up to debate, particularly since Loeb himself has pointed to Alberto and Gilda as being the culprits. And while it may or may not be relevant for continuity purposes, TLH wasn't considered canon when Catwoman: GoG was published.

Anonymous said...

Gothem City was once a booming economy, with various industries in steel, entertainment, and many other factory outputs. But when all the crime hit, the economy took a nose dive. Nobody wanted to do business in Gotham anymore. Because of the lack of work, all the factory sites closed down, leaving abandoned warehouses everywhere.

There was even a warehouse that built the other warehouses.

Ironically, it is also abandoned.

Alexander Dunn said...

Linkara...Your stinger's never disappoint.
Also, nice to see your brother.

Anonymous said...

Merely out of curiosity, have you looked at Moensch's Batman: Vampire trilogy. Those, I quite enjoy.

Inquisitor D. said...

*sigh* Ok, sorry to so vehemently disagree with you, Linkara, especially when coupled with a first class review and a great storyline piece (Wonder what that Anon who complained the two arcs weren't linked is thinking now) but I have to take serious issue with your introduction here

The concept of Catwoman as Gotham's sole protector could work really, really well. And I'm not talking about some highly imaginative take on it, either, just think of the baseline

Gotham still suffers like in the regular DCU, but with no Batman, there's no real check on the Super Villainy. The GCPD does their best, but they're overstretched. The city's at its absolute worst, a hellhole, especially for the poor. Gangsters and Madmen effectively rule the entire city, with no one able to reign them in

And then, one woman decides to say enough. She's no one that special, just another thief, but she grew up in this city, and hates having to see it like this. See it die. So she starts striking back at Supervillians, working from the shadows to take them and the mobs down, one by one. She doesn't have too many gadgets, the GCPD are too corrupt to be of much help, but she's got skill, determination, and a razor sharp mind.

There. That's a different Gotham, and a different character to both the regular Catwoman, and to Batman. That could, at least to my mind, have made a good story. But this?

*sigh* You didn't pick on Moench nearly enough here. For all of the problems in Balent's art, the real thing that kills this story is that Selena Kyle doesn't really operate as Catwoman. She's Batman. She's female Batman, with a different insignia, but works, fights, thinks and acts just like him. It's a Batman story with a find replace search done in the script, swapping Bat and Cat.

Couple that with a completely uninspired story, and trite, minor changes to the regular Bat Mythos, and what's there left in this to drive... anything?

Barachiel said...

Great turn at the end. I kinda saw it coming, given that his magic broke the instant he made his "Time Lord Victorious" style gloat. I figured the gun had enough of his BS and stripped him of his mojo. Good stuff! Can't wait to see where this goes. :)

Volvagia said...

Jen95: Though, if it MUST be a comic, I have two words: Kill Shakespeare. Two reasons: First, the only time Shakespeare gets close to death is at the blade of a sentient knife. I repeat: SENTIENT KNIFE. Second, it does not use iambic.

The Exiled One said...

*A-HEM*

Panthers, tigers, lions, pumas, cheetahs, leopards and jaguars...they are cats, too. Are you telling me we shouldn't be afraid of them, Linkara?

And, Linkara, if you think superheroes shouldn't have a cat theme...what about Black Panther from Marvel? Or Wildcat of the Justice Society of America?

Meh, you think that's bad? There are still parents taking their young children to see "Cloverfield" and "Watchmen". Hell, the recent Batman movies themselves count ("my 4 year old girl wants to see a Batman movie, so my 4 year old girl will see a Batman movie! It's PG-13 , so what's the worst that could happen? It's not like someone gets burnt alive in this movie, right, Right?)

Oh, and the whole "her nenemy also killed her parents" is lifted straight from the 1989 Tim Burton movie, where the Joker killed Thomas and Martha Wayne. Are you calling Sam Hamm (the one who wrote the 1989 Burton movie) a crappy writer?

Brooks (Female Alfred) reminds me of Sakuya Iyazoi. The key difference is that Touhou is comedy, so they can get away with someone like Sakuya being Patchouli Knowledge's maid. This comic, on the other hand, is supposed to be taken seriously.

Actually, if we are correlating this with canon, Catowman is not dumb. She merely acts dumb in her socialite Selina Kyle persona in order to fool people into thinking she's not Catwoman. It's all an act, a mask. Catwoman is her real self. Selina Kyle died the night her parents were killed, the night when, in candlelight, she swore to wage war on all criminals.

By the way, the reason why he doesn't throw a Batarang at Catwoman's head is the same reason why, in the mainstream universe, people don't just shoot Batman in the head.

-------------

So, I guess all that thing about Linkara bragging about being invicible, and yelling at 90s Kid...it was all true. He IS turbing evil. I...honestly didn't expect it, considering how moral and righteous Linkara usually is.

So...is Linkara in any way responsable for the events of "To Boldly Flee"?






Keith said...

You had me rolling @ "boob sock" so hard I had to pause for a good 3 minutes.

Crazy56U said...

O_O I... I just... You... But the hologram... You... turning evil, I... I... ... EVERYTHING I KNOW IS WRONG!

Canadian Otaku Gamer said...

I'm a little surprised you never brought up Selina's four inch spike heels when you were reviewing the cover, since they were the most ridiculous part.

Also, why does Selina insist that Brooks should dress like that? Is she bi-curious here or something? I'd hate to see what Holly Robinson would have to wear as Catwoman's sidekick.

Also, female Two-Face runs a cosmetic company called Janus... as in the two-faced Roman God... Subtle.

Anonymous said...

Time out. So when did Linkara become a magic-user? Is there some plot detail I'm missing here because I can't ever remember him ever casting a single spell in ANY review he's ever done. All of his weapons and equipment are derived from Power Rangers and Star Trek technology. I mean, yeah he uses a Magic Gun, but it was always the GUN that was magic, not Linkara himself.

Just because he had Excalibur it does not mean King Arthur was a wizard, you feel me?

Yet all of a sudden out of left field Linkara's Harry Freakin' Potter? I call foul. Lewis, dude you'd better be a Son of Ether or else this storyline makes even less sense than your usual material.

And yeah, I know he's fond of the phrase "It's magic, I don't have to explain it" but that does not make him Dr. Strange! Seriously, WTF?

Turkish Proverb said...

Fun. Nice twist there. I think I remember when this comic came out. Weird times.

Gonzo said...

I knew this comic was going to be painful the second I saw the cover. Balent makes me want to cry... right after I get through pelting him with rotten vegetables. And with the way Batman is drawn, I keep expecting him to be revealed as a vampire or something. Not sure if that would make the story better or worse.

(Also, "Stephen" and I wear the same kind of socks. I feel special somehow.)

LeeshaJoy said...

The "Cat-Signal" looks like a cross between the Black Cat Fireworks logo and the classic "Tournee du Chat Noir" poster. Not exactly terrifying, IMHO.

Daniel T. Stack said...

Badly timed advert. It would have been better in Gordon's awkward silence.

Even when she was typing they had to put sound effects on her breasts for it. Not at the keys no hovering in the highlight curve part.

Considering the Authors it might have been a Remake of Cat people like one of the ones where they really do turn into panthers. And only have the ability to change back to human after murdering. One of them even had John Larroquette in it if I remember correctly. The remakes sucked almost as much as this comic BTW.

Hasn't committed mass murder. . . So Cat Woman likes murders for boyfriends?

The Giggling Batman is grabbing the Idol from Raiders of the Lost Arc. "You could warn them if only you spoke hovito(sp)"

What is a Night Guard? Where did that come from?

Wait. So Wayne is somehow still a socialite? And where the heck does Batman hang out if Kyle has the Caves? Is he so dingy from hanging out in a belfry?

You know in stead of saying go write porn how about saying stick to the porn on this bozo. We don't need this crap elsewhere.

You are turning evil... Um how? Haven't really seen any signs of that. Heck it would fit in better with what Spoony has been going through in his videos.

Now the comics being reviewed by Hollo-cara lately that I could see achieving this but you've been healthily venting and not taunted by certain titles taking digs at your nature.

It would even fit better for Linksano or Mecha-kara. Need to see more but all I have so far is your alignment possibly being off causing you to go the wrong way in searching.

Robert 'Staredcraft' Willing said...

Oh Linkara FYI if you wanna give ONE good Elseworld Monech did with batman that didn't TOTALLY make him th emost bad-ass man alive...the Vampire-Batman trilogy! It, IMHO, is a classic and is one of the recognized of hte Elseworlds.

SailorCardKnight said...

Actually, I find the whole concept of a cat-based superhero working quite well.

Cats are natural predators, and like a cat, the "cat" (Catwoman in this case) would hunt down criminals just like a cat looks for mice and rats.

Also, maybe its because I don't read many American comics, especially Batman, but I feel this concept could have worked in the hands of a capable, talented writer.

But all that still doesn't excuse the final product from being the pile of crap that it is.

FugueforFrog said...

I don't get it...if you inverse Batman and Catwoman into opposites and Batman becomes a homicidal maniac while Catwoman becomes a super-sexual poser? And why would she even need to live in a cave!? What, is she a mountain lion or something? And wouldn't her Alfred be an elderly maid woman instead of the latest French pull-out from a Victoria's Secret catalog? Ugh, this comic is just such a mess.

That's not to say that cats can't be heroic if done right. Marvel has had two to go by the "Cat" name...though they both went into different directions: one became the demonic-powered Hellcat and the other became an anthromorphic tiger woman...but hey, Tigra kicks ass so she can get away with a skimpy outfit and fur. (then again maybe you need to do a Woman's History thing with Cat #1 as one of the issues since...it is an interesting milestone in comics being one of the first Marvel heroes not tied to an organization or a clone or whatnot and actually written by a female writer...the girlfriend of one of Marvels writer's at the time but hey, it's progress)

Creepy revelation BTW on the truth...maybe the hologram is more a reflection of the character after all. And lucky Boffo got away from Holokara this week considering what happened to 90s Kid and Harvey.

Comrade question said...

Hey linkara, just out of curiosity, what do you think would make for a good idea for an else-worlds tale?

Anonymous said...

review batman and son

doug.glassman said...

@Cenobite829: If you want a really good Elseworlds, read James Robinson's "The Golden Age". It's sorta kinda pre-New 52 canon, as a lot of its elements were incorporated into Starman and JSA, but it's absolutely fantastic.

Also, Alan Davis' "JLA: The Nail" is very good. The sequel, "Another Nail", is batshit insane, but in a fairly decent way.

@Jen95: If you want a truly horrible Shakespeare-to-comics adaptation, there's always "She Lies With Angels", another story from Chuck Austen's "Uncanny X-Men" run. It's even billed as an R&J update on the trade copy.

harmonicajay said...

Good review. I am also taking some of that action on Batman killing her parents. Time Travel will have to accomodate of course for age. You are the one who is turning evil? Hmm, well, "your" rant when the Gunslinger appeared may have been an indicator. Neat twist.

Lauralot said...

Linkara, have you ever read "Batman: Terror"? It's another Moench run, coupled with Gulacy, the artist from Sci Spy, and it's a very, very weird story arc. And by very, very weird I mean it features things like Hugo Strange dressing a mannequin in a bat cowl and then presumably making tender off-panel love to it.

Bluecho said...

That revelation makes so much sense. The hologram is a perfect reproduction of Linkara, meaning it inherited the building darkness inside him. But without the normal biological/neurological functions prompting him to stick to actions that aren't self-destructive, the hologram began submitting more and more to the darkness.

It also makes sense why Linkara's magic doesn't work. He deleveled because his alignment is slowly changing. His magic might also not be willing to be used by someone who isn't of the proper alignment, since being able to make ANYTHING (like a phaser out of a toy) could easily lend itself too horribly to evil purposes.

TimeTravelerJessica said...

Doug Moench is actually not as terrible a writer as you'd think based on his Elseworlds stories ... he's was one of the writers on Knightfall and Prey.

"Braying at the moon" is especially weird because It's not even close to the usual phrase, "howling at the moon." "Braying" is generally how you describe the sound a donkey or mule makes. I didn't know donkeys were known as creatures of the night. But it is also sometimes used to describe abrasive laughter (which would fit the Joker) so ... I'm kind of torn on whether that line is really stupid or actually kind of clever. But I don't know why you wouldn't just say, "Now he'll never hurt anyone again."

13th Doctor said...

God, this comic is idiotic. It's like a stupid fanfic a junior high schooler would write. Granted, an elseworlds story about Batman being a murderous thug would be interesting but here is just a criminal, plain and freaking simple.

As for the revelation, I at first had strong feelings about it but I am going to reserve judgment until it plays out. I will say this though: couldn't the magic gun-I mean, Margaret- find a more constructive way to let Linkara know that he is in danger of being corrupted? (BTW, could that be the term used instead of "turning evil"? That just seems like kind of a cheap and overcooked way of putting it. ) It's good she wants to reign Linkara in but taking away his means of PROTECTION AND DEFENSE just to say "you are getting too full of yourself. Bad Linkara" just seems like a dick move on her part.

Stoi said...

See now, part of me saw that coming from miles back. The other part of me simply thought I was judging the character more harshly than I ought. So, lessons learned from this story arc: always trust your paranoia, and judge everyone. xD

Also, I've been calling the gun girl Maggie for ages, so it's nice to see that semi-confirmed!

Scott Tibbs said...

In fairness to the design of two-face's hair, the mainstream DCU character also has frizzy hair of a different color on the other side of his head, and that never made sense either.

Your other criticisms are valid. The art is fanservice for the sake of fanservice and makes no sense.

The idea of toxic makeup reminds me of that horrible Catwoman movie with Halle Berry.

Paul S. said...

As awful as the rest of the design is I really do like the mask on this Catwoman costume.

Shouldn't Holly Robinson or another supporting character from Catwoman's ongoing be playing the part of Alfred?

You know what's really creepy to think about? Given the time that this came out she might have saw the hyper-sexual, violent version of Cat People from 1982.

Still a just flat-out bad looking comic that really does squander a kinda interesting role-reversal idea.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Time out. So when did Linkara become a magic-user? Is there some plot detail I'm missing here because I can't ever remember him ever casting a single spell in ANY review he's ever done. All of his weapons and equipment are derived from Power Rangers and Star Trek technology. I mean, yeah he uses a Magic Gun, but it was always the GUN that was magic, not Linkara himself."

The fact that all of that tech was derived from magic was revealed back in the Marvel Team-Up #74 review.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"review batman and son"

...Why?

Tim said...

Hey Lewis, nice job with the review. As always, I enjoyed your work. But a friendly critique from one filmmaker to another: When you're filming a character who's supposed to be powerful, it helps to shoot him from a low angle. Your shots of the wizard as he was sitting were looking down on him, which doesn't give him the imposing or impressive presence the dialog suggested. That perspective can actually make a character look weaker or more vulnerable. So for this scene, it might have might have been better to have the wizard standing and Linkara sitting, keeping the master higher than the student. Just a staging/camera placement suggestion. Keep up the great work!

Anonymous said...

The Comic: ... Honestly? Questionable artwork and the odd case of not knowing how to write women aside, this one doesn't seem that bad to me. Could just be that I'm taking it as what it is, a mental exercise, but I'm not sure this one's deserving of being attacked on this level.

Your arc: Well at least we finally seem to be getting somewhere with your trav... Whhhaaaaa?!


Fiery Little One

Nick Michalak said...

Yeah, that comic sucked pretty hard. I get playing up the sexual, seductive side of Selina, but the woman could use a more practical outfit already. Batman here doesn't seem too far off from being Crazy Steve. Imagine if Moench and Miller ever collaborated. I think there would be a cataclysm felt around the world.

Nice turn in the storyline. Definitely makes it far more interesting considering Holokara is also becoming a menace. I really love seeing these storylines you put into the show. For me, it makes the show more compelling and entertaining. You put a lot of work into these stories and it shows.

Kerrus said...

[Storyline] I'll admit, I saw this coming a while ago. The evil flash during which the magic 'failed' was really where I saw the start of it- and all the failures can be traced from there. The gun failed because, well, it's a weapon of good and you're turning evil. The spells failed because they were learned when you were 'good' and as someone giving in to rage, hate, and smug self-superiority, you can't connect with your magic in the same way.

Although that does leave some options open- obviously the gun as a sentient artifact will remain useless to you if you continue down this path, but now that you know the core of it it should be relatively straightforeward for you to relearn how to cast your spells to adjust for your new mindset.


Of course there's wider issues here- namely Holokara. As a holographic backup, continuous runtime is taking its toll, and Holokara is becoming increasingly erratic. But what would normally be a typical nervous breakdown is now a major threat as Holokara is patterned directly off of you, and thus is becoming more erratic down the path of evil the longer it remains operational.

Moreover, while Holokara is strictly a creation of technology and thus unable to use your magic, as an intelligence patterned off of you that was never meant to be run this long uh... It probably knows all your access codes- and if Data taking over the Enterprise, or even the Doctor taking over voyager is anything to go by... you could be in big trouble.


... Hmm. Actually that could conceivably be why you lost contact with the ship, and not due to the mineral deposits of southern canada screwing with your communications (although that's also a possibility).


There's also the matter of the other gunslinger- also armed with a magic weapon and his attack. While it indirectly lead to the sudden onset of rage that marked the cessation of your ability to perform or utilize your previous magic, it didn't seem like the sort of assault that a serious attempt on your life would utilize, especially from another magic user.

The attacker knew where you were located, knew when to attack you (when you were alone), and had a means of escaping if things went bad. But he didn't seem to do any major damage... so I'm of the opinion that he was probably acting either on his own accord or for some greater community to test you- and see if you, as the veteran of many conflicts and a survivor of all the crap the universe throws at him, were still on the straight and narrow, or beginning the downward spiral that gave rise to so many of your foes.

It's a test which I suspect is still ongoing- simply losing your magic and beginning down the path to the dark side is not a make or break moment that forever dominates your destiny, but rather the beginning of a new chapter in your life. Where will you go from here, now that you have the knowledge you possess. What will you do?


As a hero, you've acquired potent magics, powerful artifacts, and very advanced science and technologies- and as a villain all these things could be at your command to use against the very people you now seek to protect. With all those that only you were able to stop- who would in turn stand against you if you lose the ability or desire to distinguish between right and wrong?

Who would you trust to fight you when you become that which you most fear?

Anonymous said...

I would love for you to tear the Marvel events a new one.
-Civil War
-Secret Invasion
-Fear Itself
-Avengers vs. X-Men (If you were an X-men fan, you would be outright enraged at how much they are making the X-Men out like out of character bastards. In fact, you should count the pages the Avengers are featured compared to the X-Men. The whole event is one giant "Watch the Avengers!" advertisement. And it's not even over yet and Emma Frost is now mentally killing people!)

Anonymous said...

Huh. That. . . That's unexpected. Granted, we've seen HoloKara performing evilly, but that could be seen as a side-effect of Linkara's personality without real emotions or human understanding behind it.

I mean, unless you go with good and evil being set states in the universe, which is never a good idea, or some sort of corruption you've been keeping at bay because you're a good person. . . We haven't really seen you doing anything evil.

I'm intrigued, but in the way you often do when something looks like a plot hole, and so you continue on to see if they address that issue.

Kth-77 said...

Every time I watch a new vid now I half expect Fakekara to pop up interrupting the theme saying how he's removing that segment from the show or how it is inefficient to play the song every episode. I like meta stuff like that, like in a Teen Titans episode featuring the H.I.V.E. Five where the interrupted the theme basically outright saying they've hijacked the show for this episode.

Anonymous said...

I like the Catwoman voice you're going with. Distinctive! I hope you use it again in the future.

Kaibaman41 said...

Linkara turning Evil..that does explain why Holo-Kara is going bad sense he's based on the real one so well but that is a interesting twist. Though I can see why the comic artist drew Catwoman's outfit differently then on the cover, maybe he thought that her villains would grab her boobs instead of her hair for all the wrong reasons...but then why didn't they change the cover the hell? Though to be honest I thought the Linkara character was just being cocky when he managed to defeat his enemies with ease every time..maybe it has to do with Missing No...er I mean The Entity.

Anonymous said...

Got to note that Bruce Lee said in interviews how ridiculous he found beating up guys much larger than him in his movies.

Robert Frank said...

My god this was a terrible comic. I think the artist drew the comic with Catwoman's breats exposed the whole time then was forced to color over it to avoid editorial problems. Look at some of the panels you can even see her nipples poking out. I like how instead of the thing being a straight role reversal they tried to make things interesting but man does it fail hard. It's like the writer said"What makes these character's awsome and interesting?" and then reversed that. Sorry but this gets a fail.

Rabbi Joe said...

What makes it so much worse is that Christopher Nolan has demonstrated that Selina Kyle's outfit actually makes sense for a thief. It can be sexy but not sexist. Balent, who understands neither female clothing nor female anatomy, set the standard, and DC is following it to a T and A.
Also, and maybe it's just me, but Selina looks fairly normal in a gown in this comic. Then she puts on a costume, and her breasts double in size? Stay classy, Jim.

Big_Mad_Draco said...

You know if your writing a Batman and one of his villains switch roles else world, why not got the obvious route and have a good Joker and an evil Batman? While it might be a bit cliche it would allow for a similar dynamic and many of the Joker's signature weapon could easily be altered to non-lethal versions (i.e. Joker gas that sends people into an uncontrolled laughing fit for a few minutes to incapacitate them).

This could have worked better if they had kept it as Bruce growing up rich and Selena poor. Selena is tired of the little guy always getting stepped on and strikes against the mob and all the other villains that come. Bruce in many ways acts as a foil to her because this version is a man who has everything and still wants more.

Also, would you say this is worse than JLA: Act of God?

RocMegamanX said...

Wow, this comic was stupid. Especially with the fanservice overload.

I'm still kinda confused as to how Catwoman can even be good in the normal DC universe, especially since last I saw her in the Batman animated series, she was a villain.

Gareth said...

Yay, after all my years one internet I can finally say this, called it (ok I said that when River Song's identity was revealed but that was made obvious by episode 6.2)

@ Linkara - I know I've probably overstated the reference by now but is there any chance what Linkara is experiencing could be referred to as "Time Lord Victorious Syndrome"?

xxStyxx said...

I think the "Cats are not scary" Argument didnt count.
A Robin or a "Nightwing" (whatever the Hell that is) arent scary at all, the Hero didnt have to be based on a scary Animal. ^^

Angel Asylum said...

Called it from the start of the arc, dont know where it'll go, but I did call it.

Pyromaniac said...

This is just basically just a porn written by some weird sick writer.

Gyre said...

You know, Catwoman really sucks at the whole guardian thing. Catwoman went after someone, Batman killed them and Catwoman was helpless. that's the summary of this comic.
And all of the dialogue around 22:10 is really just the writers talking about how cool the Batman is. Really, that's all there is to it. Just read it:
"A monstrous creature of the night, springing full-blown from the darkness".

Remember that this was written in the 1990s. By that point they stopped needing to write comics like everyone in them was completely out of touch with reality when the spoke. The only reason for this is to make Batman cooler. In a comic book that's supposed to be about Catwoman.

Anonymous said...

Linkara is turning evil???

There is only one cure.

My Little Pony Friendship is Magic marathon!!!

Anyone00 said...

So the gun's name is Margret and her full potential hasn't been unlocked: does she have a shikai and a bankai?

Jarkes said...

So... what exactly does the Gunslinger have to do with Linkara turning evil? For that matter, what exactly is CAUSING Linkara to turn evil? ...Does this mean we'll get some sort of battle in the center of the mind at some point?

Harold said...

You know, my father has a little saying

"Any straight man complaining about boobs should immediately commit themselves to the nearest psychiatric institution, and never show their ugly face in human society ever again."

As for Frank Miller, his Dark Knight Returns, the Sin City series, and 300 are some of the best comics I ever read, and a proud part of my collections
(and yes, I've read them long before they even announced the movies)

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"You know, my father has a little saying

"Any straight man complaining about boobs should immediately commit themselves to the nearest psychiatric institution, and never show their ugly face in human society ever again.""

That's nice. I have a saying, too:

"If you aren't interested in boobs in what's supposed to be a mainstream comic story about superheroes, perhaps you're not some sex-obsessed loser who doesn't know how to look up porn on the internet and would prefer not to require sequential art for spank material and would prefer to respect characters AS characters first, regardless of the size of their chests. Or perhaps you're gay and implying that you require psychiatric evaluation simply for not wanting to see such things in a non-porn comic is pretty damn insulting and offensive."

Admittedly, my saying is not as catchy, but I think it works a little bit better.

Anonymous said...

Why did they fuse Woman Two face with Black Mask. The company that destroyed her face was his and Black Mask is a big fan of ripping peoples faces up.

Gareth said...

@ Harold your Father's insistence that complaining about boobs makes someone ugly, mentally unsound and in need of removal from society deeply disturbing.

@ Linkara, I looked at my original post and I realised it wasn't well written, what I meant was please could be it referred as such by one of the characters in the show. Hope you don't mind the silly little fan request

Laura F. said...

"That's nice. I have a saying, too:

"If you aren't interested in boobs in what's supposed to be a mainstream comic story about superheroes, perhaps you're not some sex-obsessed loser who doesn't know how to look up porn on the internet and would prefer not to require sequential art for spank material and would prefer to respect characters AS characters first, regardless of the size of their chests. Or perhaps you're gay and implying that you require psychiatric evaluation simply for not wanting to see such things in a non-porn comic is pretty damn insulting and offensive."

Admittedly, my saying is not as catchy, but I think it works a little bit better."

...I've officially been watching too much of the 7th Doctor, because somehow reading that turned from your voice into his. XD

On another note, crappy comic is crappy. As someone here pointed out, Catwoman seems helpless at every turn against Batman. Pathetic, and I won't even comment on the boob thing. Some men are just huge pervs regarding us ladies.

As for the storyline, I'm UBER excited over where it's going and am glad it's going in this direction. I had a feeling it and Holokara's behavior tied into how Linkara acted before his journey, and I'm happy to see that it's true. Really great work! :)

DaveWire said...

Hey, long time viewer, first time poster on the blog.

So just a point of curiosity I'd like to bring up (and I apologize if someone has already pointed this out). I've been reading the Knightfall trilogy since just before Dark Knight Rises was released last month and I'm finally nearing the end of Knightsend.

Has anyone else picked up on Linkara's current story arc being remarkably similar? He's lost his powers (Knightfall), he's on a quest to get back what he's lost (Knightsquest: The Search), and he has left a technologically superior replacement behind who has grown increasingly erratic (Knightsquest: The Crusade).

Does this mean we're heading for a climactic showdown between the original and pretender Linkara's (Knightsend)?

colton said...

Doug Moench isn't actually a bad writer his stuff during the 70's and 80's were actually critically acclaimed. Grant Morrison actually praises his work in his book Supergods.

Heisenberg said...

Hey Linkara,

Love the review like your others, but I do have one slight nitpick: I don't think the version of 'Cat People' that Selina Kyle sees with her parents is the 1942 version you are thinking of. If you look closely at the panel where the Kyles walk away from the theater, the poster below the marquee is clearly that of the 1982 remake of 'Cat People' starring Malcolm McDowell and Natassja Kinski.

That movie would actually be even more inappropriate for a little girl like Selina to see, since it contains gore, sex, nudity (of Annette O'Toole, Superman's mother from 'Smallville'), and a scene where Ed Begley, Jr. gets his arm violently ripped off. (The 1942 'Cat People' was a film I actually grew up with as a child and is actually tame compared to the remake, which I dislike.) I just wanted to make you aware of the distinction between the two films.

Sincerely,

Heisenberg

Jesse said...

Something I've noticed about the art in a lot of these comics but never really thought about until now: these artists do know that there's not only a difference between what looks sexy and what looks uncomfortable, but also a line that's rather clear, all things considered, right? Catwoman's costume in this comic is a perfect example. Couldn't help but want to get her out of it, not because I wanted to see her naked, but because I wanted to help her into something more comfortable.

As for the story, I'm with a lot of people on this one. Part of the reason why Catwoman is one of my favorite Batman characters is that I've always thought she was a good, strong female character, capable of doing things for herself, even if she was working against the law. But here, they've just got her running around in an uncomfortable costume, looking at crime scenes that she couldn't do anything about in spite of being "the protector of Gotham". I'd call it a bad fanfic if people hadn't been paid to write and draw it..

And all I can really say about the story line is that now that you've come out and said that your character has been turning evil all this time, I guess it has been sort of obvious for a while and I just didn't want to see it. It'll be interesting to see where all this goes.

Meg said...

Called it!! Although beyond this point, I have no idea where you're going to take this. I'm looking forward to seeing it. And we learn the magic gun's name, which is also my full name. Cool! Keep up the good work!

Shanethefilmmaker said...

Evil...Wow didn't see that one coming. Pride, yes. Arrogant, maybe. But evil wow. I don't know what the say. I mean it's not uncommon for a hero of the story to turn bad even if the story and excuse for it is crappy like Roy Harper's, but wow. There was no sign. Not one hint that you were turning out that way, sure there was the mirrorverse you, but hey, there's a bizarro Superman.

Jonathan M said...

Ooh! Ooh! I got the plot twist: Linkara is gonna turn out...Not evil at the end! Yes! He will not be evil!

I win the internet if it turns out this crazy theory is correct.

Anonymous said...

It seems like the comic is literally a case of this this, just not ironic.

Anonymous said...

I despise heels on superhero women. Moment I see them I facepalm. Break a heel, you're in trubble. Break an ankle, you're in trubble. Gotta run? Don't make me laugh... or cry for that matter. Those damn things hurt.


As for Linkara's situation, I think Linkara going evil is very beleaveable. Let's face it. He's got all this power at his fingertips (Also no one in a position to put a stop to him if he turns) and yet he hasn't questioned his motives often.

In fact I think he only questioned his behavior towards others in the Wrath of Kahn Review. Even there is was more along the lines of if Pollo resented the way Linkara treated him. While Linkara does value his friendships, it doesn't address the motives of why he does what he does.

If a person doesn't question their motives sooner or later, then they become blind to the eventual path they walk down. All the well written heros question if their actions are right, just, or ethical.

As for HolloKara, I say this: Power croupts.

Holokara is just starting to feel out the advantages he has over others. Outside of his emitter, he's rather indistructable. And his form is very Versatile. He's hitting where Linkara would probably end up.

Query: Has Linkara ever intend to help Margret seek eternal rest, or does that gun seem a bit too useful to him? There's a long term questionable act, unless I missed an episode.


Oh, someone mentioned Spoony. While he's not in what I call a desireable situation, (A rather serious understatement. The creation of Ultima 9 was a Demonic undertaking. May the parties who condoned it burn in Hell.) he is trying to walk an honorable path. And why he may stumble, the goal is respectable.

Just thought of this when I finished:
1) Spoony has struggled with his moralaty and fought to stay on the path of honor.

2) Linkara fought on while beleaving in his own inate status as a goodguy without questioning the power he's obtained or his furute intentions concerning said power.

Which one sounds more likely to turn into a badguy?

To me it's Linkara. Still it's an interesting thought to work out.

Ming said...

Some comments on the episode:

-- Wow, that was another fine example of the worst of 90s, especially regarding women. The only thing that's actually worse than this is the Catwoman (in name only) film starring Halle Berry. I mean, the initial idea does sound stupid (Catwoman as a heroine? Really?), but the artwork and writing makes it worse. I'm not looking forward to part 2.

-- OMG, Linkara is turning evil? My God, I'm suddenly reminded of the Tenth Doctor's Time Lord Victorious rant. And if Linkara is turning evil, that may explain Holo-Linkara's behavior . . .

-- So the little girl in the magic gun is named Margaret. I don't suppose Margaret's ghost is going to show up anytime soon?

Blackcat325 said...

Wow... for anyone who thought the three consecutive convention stingers were boring or something, they've now been offset by three consecutive jaw-dropper endings. I saw this one coming in that I guessed that the storyline would be about the negative side of Linkara's character becoming more prominent, but I never expected it to be put quite so bluntly. But then, Steven as much as said he was going to be blunt about it, I imagine the full explanation is a bit more complicated.

I guess its a good sign that Linkara looked so shocked at the idea that he's turning evil. It could just be because its so at odds with how he sees himself - he could easily assume that saving the world automatically makes him an amazingly good person, and at least some of his inflated ego probably comes from believing this. But it could also be because he's genuinely frightened by the posibility of becoming evil, that he's not 'too far gone' to know that he doesn't want to be that way. Wish I could have seen his reaction the moment after the video finished. I can't help but remember the hologram's calm, cold denial that there was anything wrong with him when similarly accused. Angry and outraged Linkara probably wouldn't have been a good thing, either.

Really looking forward to seeing how this all ties together, with the Gunslinger and the hologram, and possibly Dr Insano (I might be wrong but I really think that he's been brought into this storyline for some bigger reason than what we've already seen; same for Malachite, maybe). It's a great direction to take the story in - I wondered how this new storyline could possibly top saving the world, but maybe the harder battle will be saving himself.

PWBOT said...

While evil would be a little much, I like many others, saw something like this coming. That speech you made to the Gunslinger and your recent behavior has been a little unusual.

My guess is that the Gunslinger might be an actual good guy antagonist and he is collecting magic guns to liberate them and perhaps set their souls free. Seeing how most people who own a gun that's powered by a little girl's soul are probably evil, he probably just went with the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. Although the whole "Suffer the same fate as so many before you" doesn't really sound heroic...

Robert 'staredcraft' Willing said...

Hey Linkara did you at all read Loebs wolverine run where he killed sabertooth. Are you going to review it?

Because in his new arc...he reveals weapon x was all and always Logan's idea

Falcovsleon20 said...

Y'know Lewis, your opinions on Moench are pretty much how I feel about Bendis. No matter how many times people keep telling me his run on Daredevil was good, I refuse to acknowledge the man has written anything decent when he has consistently made terrible work after terrible work.

In fact I think he might just be biased towards things he writes. Oh he can supposedly do justice to Daredevil but when he's called on to do a superhero team book like the Avengers? He pretty much screws over any of the classic Avengers members unless they're Thor, Cap or Iron Man. And even then he screws them over too. Oh he wrote a touching death to Ultimate Spider-Man that had him crying? But when (yes I'm going to bring THIS up again) the Wasp dies just to please every idiot hater out there (most of which HE created because he can't write females for crap) it's as a pointless plot device.

Seems to me the man can only do a good job when it's someone HE likes.

Sabre said...

I have my doubts about posting this, but I feel I should say it.

I like catwoman's outfit in this.

Call me a creep, a perv, or a sexist if you like, but I think it looks good.

Also, I think arguing practicality and realism in a super hero outfit is, without meaning to offend, hypocritical and dumb. Super heroes wear capes (easily grabbed and serve no purpose except to look cool) and skin tight, brightly coloured spandex, when camo and body armour would serve better.

Gareth said...

I can't speak for all superheroes but Batman actiually wears his cape for a reason, it is both used in aid of misdirection to help draw bullets away from him, it aids his costumes general approach of terrifying criminals and like in Batman Begins and Batman and Robin (the first run) he can use it to glide.

A lot of heroes do get practical use out of their costumes or use them to promote the idea of heroes as symbols.

Rabbi Joe said...

Superman's cape serves a purpose at times: he often wraps people in it to protect them from cold, fire, etc. In the Silver Age, he would store his civilian gear in it. In the early Modern Age, John Byrne made a point of shredding it in virtually every issue.

Sabre said...

While I agree with that point with Batman and maybe Captain America, I think alot of it is reaching and post hoc rationalisation. Again, it can be applied to Catwoman's outfit here. "She wears a garter to store her stuff on." and "The suspenders are to keep her boots on and laces that could easy come loose".

Wolverine has no reason to wear yellow spandex. If anything, it would make more sense to simply carry a balaclava in his pocket he can pop on when he doesn't want to be identified. Because it is 'classic' it is given a free pass, whereas this one is slammed in the review and comments. At least this one is kind of cat themed with the ears and eye patterns on the cowl.

I know I didn't explain in detail why I like this catwoman outfit, and I'm by no means attacking other super hero clothes or defending the comic. Most of the jokes about the outfits are funny, but I find the reasons for hating on it could just as easy be applied to other super heroes, and the rationalisations to justify those crazy outfits could be applied here.

Anonymous said...

Let's be clear on why Catwoman's outfit really doesn't work. And not just because of the heels.

1) No support. Therefore her acrobatics have quite a bit of... "bounce" to them. That hurts.

2)No support also means no cover. Getting grabbed in that area hurts. Don't care how hot guys think it might be, It hurts.

3) Getting punched in the breast HURTS. It hurts a lot. And while I'd rather not be crass, with her's hanging out like that, they look like speed bags.

4) There are furries who wear bodysocks, that have fur patterns, but they also wear support. At least the ones I know do. The sock is like fur to them thus a second skin. Catwoman's purple outfit is expositionist and innapproprate to wear in public. She might as well be naked. It just makes me facepalm.

Harold said...

"If you aren't interested in boobs in what's supposed to be a mainstream comic story about superheroes, perhaps you're not some sex-obsessed loser who doesn't know how to look up porn on the internet and would prefer not to require sequential art for spank material and would prefer to respect characters AS characters first, regardless of the size of their chests. Or perhaps you're gay and implying that you require psychiatric evaluation simply for not wanting to see such things in a non-porn comic is pretty damn insulting and offensive."

Mind you that he's a married man with a family and social life.

The problem isn't that one wants port, the problem is that people get offended by sexuality to begin with

Why should sexuality be kept out of mainstream comics to begin with?

I mean, people seem to be ok with all the violence, so why are you so sexually repressed?
Shouldn't sex be socially more acceptable than violence?
The entire concept of giving pain and death being seen as more cultivated and dignified than giving pleasure and life is just sickening.

We should EMBRACE sexuality into our mainstream culture instead of stigmatizing it

The entire freaking Abrahamic culture is built around making people feel bad about what's natural, and turn their repressed urges into hatred and rage for anyone disagreeing with the ruling class, turning them into disposable weapons

Stop marginalizing what is right by calling anyone who can see it a "looser"

Look at France!
Look at Italy!
Look at Japan!
They have no problems with allowing boobs in their mainstream comics!
Even the UK less stuck-up!
It's the US who's the odd man among the comic superpowers.
Only America is this sick, and you are a victim of it!

My Father was the person who made me into a comic fan.
He himself prefers European comics over American, and if her reaches for American stuff, it's usually indie stuff, like the works of Robert Crumb.
He sometimes pokes fun at me for reading mainstream stuff, but he'll give it a chance if it's good (loves Animal Man and Dial H), and he genuinely fell in love with manga once I introduced him to it (his current favorites are Crying Freeman and Death Note)

He has some pretty good insights about how things work, and sadly, I'm not too good at interpreting them (he himself thinks it's beneath him to talk to people on the internet), alto what I said earlier was a direct quote

But yeah, think twice before pointing fingers.

Gareth said...

In comics like this I don't think the existence of sexuality itself is the problem, I think it is how many things at geared towards it.

Take her boob socks for example, they aren't practical and they are a liability but it is sexualised so that stuff is sacrificed.

He posture is another sample, it is unrealistic and it looks like anyone trying to do that pose would go through a lot of pan but apparently is sexy so those concerns are ignored.

There is nothing wrong with portraying sexuality, what is wrong is sacrificing character, decent costume design, etc to achieve said sexuality because it reduces the charactes to sexual objects.

I believe Linkara said something similar using an image of Nightwng and Starfir in bed naked together as an example

On another note while I found your Father's quote disturbing Harold kudos to him for introducing you to comics, I like the idea of parents sharing comics with their children and hope to do the same when I have children one day.

Sabre said...

Anon-
"And while I'd rather not be crass, with her's hanging out like that, they look like speed bags."
Hehe. They do.

But yes, I saw those kind of arguments in the episode and comments, and aside of the sexuality arguments (which I don't want to get into due to differing politics and cultures) they don't work.

I already said this twice now, but I want to be clear. I'm not saying you should like it or not, I'm not saying it's perfect, and I'm not saying all heroes are like this, just alot of them, but again, you are arguing realism and practicality in a genre where there is little.

Most super heroes, it's tights/lycra/spandex with their underwear on the outside. No protection, no camouflage, and to quote Lister from Red Dwarf, "One swift knee in the happy sacks and it'll drop like anyone else!"

As already explained by others, you could easy use the same rational and say "Just shoot Batman". If you explain it away by saying it's super resistant material or something, then you could use that argument for Catwoman's outfit.

If anything, Catwoman is fast and agile enough in this comic for it to be less likely she is grabbed by the speedbags than it is for her to give Batman a hit to the balls.

RocMegamanX said...

@Harold

"The entire freaking Abrahamic culture is built around making people feel bad about what's natural, and turn their repressed urges into hatred and rage for anyone disagreeing with the ruling class, turning them into disposable weapons."

Joy...this is gonna spawn a religious debate on these comments. I'm calling it.

Unknown said...

On Two-Face
Split personalities can develop due to sudden trauma(like having your face and career taken from you in one swoop) as coping mechanisms. Also it took a while to get the whole spit personality stick to....stick with Harvey. It wasn't until FRANK MILLER's Year One did the split personality thing even be brought up, let alone considered apart of his pathos. To give you a time frame it was 44 years after the character's conception (a lot of that being left out of comics due to his horrific injuries).

Batman being a murderer
You keep on saying that "this is the else worlds if they switched roles", but don't have a single creator's words on this saying that. This may simply be Selina's the detective and Bruce is a loon, not if they switched places 100%.

The walking away from computer and coming back:
I'd say it's just her pacing back and forth as it wasn't like it said "minutes later" she may have spent hours putting together the connections, we just only saw her coming to the conclusions and she wanted to get up to move around.(Also it shows a bit more motion in her style then her just leaning forward while typing, Which is usually Bruce's style of deducing something.)

@Paul S.
this came out in 1999 so I don't think cat people had much to do with this

@The ideal of this comic:
I believe Catwoman could be the feared icon batman is, As just like bats, there are species of that scare the f**k out of people(like lions and tigers and especially panthers. Catwoman looks like the most latter of the 3 and obviously has the physicality to hit like one of said acts) While Selena's in modern comics may not be sufficient in motives, this is an elseworld's where motives are different. As this Selena's motives aren't clear.I'm not willing to say if it's bull that she's in 'Batman's place', so far I haven't seen her do much that makes me believe that.


That is all
P.S.
Boobsock!

Unknown said...

Alfred basically said the "Nice young Hunk" thing in the female sense when speaking about Tal.....I mean Miranda Tate during Dark Knight Rises he even later admitted he'd be happy seeing him with Selena.

Don't compare and contrast two different tones of conversation on two different subjects (one about dealing with a man without morals, who the lead is misunderstanding. While the other about giving up the cape in order to settle down). Compare Alfred complaining about sewing up Bruce's wounds to Brooks carrying on about fixing Selena's costumes or Alfred telling Bruce to give up the cowl to settle down, with Brook's saying the same thing to Selena.

Also even with the unrealstic art, this team does action scenes better than Nolan imo.

Rabbi Joe said...

Oh, hi, I didn't come for the religious debate. I just think it's worth noting that the Bat protagonists do not have superhuman abilities, so the utility of their outfits is a major issue. Considering the standard, the Batverse is far more egalitarian than most comics families. Catwoman in a catsuit is not bizarre, but extra garters and corsets on the outside is ridiculous.
"The problem isn't that one wants port." I agree. I love port. Especially in places where absinthe is illegal.

Unknown said...

He didn't throw the batarang into her head, because there's no way of telling that'd she let go. If she didn't let go(which some cases of dead people do "death grip" on things) when she died he'd have 100+ pounds of dead weight hanging on his arm.

Now finally, she's making a hypothesis when she says she inspired him and it's hinted at that it may be true during the story. It's clear he only appeared as Batman after she dawned the cowl as cat woman and became known enough to be Gordon's go to woman for crime. When they first met he likened himself to her animal visage. Also, it's a common theme in Nolan's movies (Since you want to reference them), as well as the comics, that batman has inspired some of his rouges to become what they are. So it's not hard to believe that.

I'm not saying it's not bad, but I am saying some of your problems you have with i come from you being such a continuity fan, who wishes to see Elseworlds stick to what you know best(Dent's psychological profile). That or comparing it to the best version of a character namely Alfred's speeches from Nolan's trilogy(which no Alfred I've seen/read is as solidly written as that version) forgetting the less parts of the golden era (Back when Alfred was a portly detective type, who only came to the manor after Bruce became batman because of his father's final wishes).

Unknown said...

Turning evil?
I haven't seen Linkara do much in terms of evil, He is probably the most passively or "lawful" evil guy I've seen in a while.... I'm wondering if you're going to go for Lawful Neutral character or you're really gonna to go through a Gandalf the Grey into Gandalf the white, redemption of Linkara type storyline.

I'm partly wondering why Margret didn't give any warning of any kind that Linkara was crossing the line, and why his other abilities outside of his use of her failed. You've probably got this all figured out, if you don't I'm wondering if this will be apart of your own little "reboot" as Linkara accepts his evil and has to get a new magic gun that accepts him.

Anonymous said...

"Why should sexuality be kept out of mainstream comics to begin with?

I mean, people seem to be ok with all the violence, so why are you so sexually repressed?
Shouldn't sex be socially more acceptable than violence?
The entire concept of giving pain and death being seen as more cultivated and dignified than giving pleasure and life is just sickening.

We should EMBRACE sexuality into our mainstream culture instead of stigmatizing it:"



At what point has Linkara critisized this comic for showing characters having sexuality? All I heard him complaining about, was bad art, idiotic dialog, impossible poses and pointless objectification.

Think twice before you do whole speeches defending something nobody attacked.

Gareth said...

@ Sabre apparently the underwear on the outside is actually based on reinforced briefs that used to be worn by acrobats when heroes like Superman started to emerge so even then there was a practical point

Anonymous said...

OK, Lewis, I usually like you, but you were wrong on SO many points here

First of, if you really think cat's aren't scary, you should go and watch Felidae
It's kinda like Watership Down with cats, only MUCH worse.
1994, Germany
The whole fims is on youtube, both the English dub, and the German original with subtitles
You'll never think of cats as "cute" ever again
sweet dreams...
...can-opener

Second, Catwoman as Gotham's protector is a GREAT concept
She's essentially a Robin Hood archetype to begin with.
Evil Batman could very well work as the oppressive authority figure - using his wealth and power to get his way, and use the Batman persona when a more "hands on" approach is required
Where this comic fails is that they essentially made this a "what if Batman was a chic" kind of story, and I think that concept was already done before

Also, it's pretty obvious that Superhero outfits are produced by the same manufacturer who makes the plug-suits for NERV!

Linkara is turning evil?
Damn it, I knew it!
His Soul Gem is corrupted! He's turning into a Witch!
(kudos to anyone ho gets the reference)

Le Messor said...

Unlike most of the comics you review, I actually have this one.
I've gotta say, it's... it's...
Wait, what happens in it again? I know I have it, but I really don't remember anything beyond the cover.

Some great jokes in this one - tribble bra!

I expected a Rambo reference, but I love the Addams Family!

"While it's true bats aren't truly dangerous creatures they are still more engrained as terrifying beasts of the night in our minds."
Yeah, and ever have one fly at your face? It provokes a genuine fear reaction.

"Or perhaps you're gay and implying that you require psychiatric evaluation"...
Um, Lewis, he did specify 'straight'. It was even in your quoted version.

FrogFugue:
"Marvel has had two to go by the "Cat" name"
... and the already mentioned Black Panther. And Black Cat. And Nightcat.

Master Control Cynic said...

I have no problem with attractive women in comics with prominent *ahem* features in comics, IF, and it's a big if, if she's a good, strong and likable character. And she doesn't live up to a bad stereotype. A great girl who also happens to be a complete bombshell is every straight mans dream.

This comic however, doesn't cut it, Selina comes off, as NChick put it, as a "Strong Independent Woman" (Check out NChick's female superhero movie countdown for details)

Also, That corset makes the prominent..... How do I say this like a gentleman..... Honkers, possible. Look at it, it actualy seperates them.

Unknown said...

Two things I missed yesterday:

1.The death of Selena's Parents
While Bruce did see Mask of Zorro, it wasn't the "spark" that made him become a crime fighter. It was just the general death of his parents, so your whole little spiel about being inspired by the movie kinda...falls apart.

2.The cat memes and jokes
As I(and others) pointed out, there are species of Cat that the human race is still pretty legitimately afraid of. Much like batman in year one and various other takes of his origins, it takes time to get criminals to fear you. If catwoman is as established of a Hero as seen here, the criminal element has gotten time to become afraid of her. So that whole part of 'cats not being scary or striking fear into the hearts of people' sorry to say, but comes off as STUPID(the first time i felt like this was appropriate to say toward you) on your part. It comes off as more stupid, as you then use memes and lolcat-ish imagery, forgetting that there are things that could and have been thrown against Bruce Wayne as a character in his many portrayals (Bat-tussi & shark replant spray, "Goddamn Batman", the multi-colored batsuits in the sliver age, Grayson sleeping in the same bed as Bruce in the 40's, Bale's Batvoice, Joel film's, "Bees my god", child endangerment). Some of which makes the concept of batman laughable to some, even to this day more so than a person dressing up as a cat.

Anonymous said...

Again, where the outfit fails with the support issue isn't the seperation.

I get the fact that some guys don't understand the pain involved with the "girls" swinging. Let's see if I can help you understand how something like that hurts for a girl.

Take your "set". Imagine them with extra weight added and then let it swing, wildly. As far as I'm aware, getting the "boys" yanked down kinda hurts. Now imaging going through a wild run where those weights hop up and down and side to side, repeating the painful sensation.

Anonymous said...

naive Linkara,
thinking that cats aren't scary as shit
http://www.whatjeffkilled.com/

J9 said...

Never underestimate a cat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEZMctgaXNQ
ever!

Anonymous said...

So, where's Maven?

No seriously, she would've been good as Alfred. She's one of Selena's closest friends, maybe she could fill the part.

Or heck, why not put her in the role of Two Face? The fact that she's so close to Selena would make the betrayal just as harsh, like with Bruce and Harvey?

No one ever wants to think about the Butterfly of Doom...

Katherine said...

So, this comic had the premise of switching everyone’s roles to the extent that not only is Catwoman in Batman’s role, but the villains that Batman normally faces are now all female, as is Alfred. And yet what did the writers do with it? They made Alfred and Two-Face into scantily-dressed women that have nothing to do with their original male incarnations besides occupying their roles. Instead of being properly dressed like the original Two-Face was, Female!Two-Face has to be undressed on one side of her body, just to continue the alter-ego/bipolar theme. And Female!Alfred has to be dressed in a porn star version of a French maid outfit and bent over at impossible and contrived angles just to show off her body to the reader. Yes, show off their bodies even when it makes no sense for their characters or for practical purposes. That’s how we’ll know that they’re female now.

Because we all know that had it been the reverse: had the writers tried to genderbend female villains into male ones and female superheroes into male superheroes, the male versions of Harley Quinn, Catwoman, Batgirl, Talia Al-Ghul, Poison Ivy, etc. would have all been wearing nothing but thongs or the equivalent thereof. Right...I’m off to go look at some GOOD genderbending art now.

RanmaFan85 said...

I hate to break it to you, but there is a psychological condition, albeit rare, called Ailurophobia, which is the fear of anything feline. In fact, two notable figures in history that come to mind that were said to have it include Adolf Hitler and Napoleon. Even the character of my screenname has that condition. (Granted, in Ranma 1/2, it's played for laughs like most things are.)

So to say that no one would be afraid of a cat of any size is rather unfair.

Arianne said...

I wouldn't call Linkara Evil, It's more like his pride could get in the way. He doesn't seem like a Evil alignment type of guy. That's just my observation. This comic book series is going to suck. I'm very glad to be reminded that you're not going to review the Tarot comics.

Anonymous said...

Wow, how the mighty have fallen! I remember when Moench's MASTER OF KUNG FU was consistently one of the best comics of the 70s!

Got a question. Are you sure his name is pronounced "MOE-ANK"? I vaguely remember reading that it rhymed with "BENCH" making it Doug Moench ("MENCH")...

By the way, these "word verifications" are so sloppy and illegible it's kinda hard to prove you're not a robot--ya might have to be one to read some of 'em!

Personally, I think this and Act of God may just be bad stories for I remember him writing some pretty decent Bat-books in the 80s and 90s with Don Newton and Kelly Jones respectively.

GemBlue42 said...

"You know, my father has a little saying

"Any straight man complaining about boobs should immediately commit themselves to the nearest psychiatric institution, and never show their ugly face in human society ever again.""

So, Linkara you are either gay, or crazy and ugly. Damn, my gay man/side-show freak fetish strikes again! (I kid, kid)

""Mind you that he's a married man with a family and social life.

...

But yeah, think twice before pointing fingers. "

What I hear is "Baw, you insulted my daddy for an incredibly sexist saying, so I am going to call you a prude, and try to intellectualize and justify my being a complete and utter twonk."

Here are a few points:
1. Jim Balent has a hard time drawing realistic female figures without a model (not kidding. A friend of mine did pose for him for his Tarot series, and when he has realistic women to work off of, he can draw them. But most of the time, he gives them wildly unrealistic proportions that change throughout the comic). At least here, it is somewhat improved, in that Catwoman's boobs are at least somewhat proportional to the rest of her body. However, the outfit is nothing more than fetish fuel.

2.That would be great, if it were that type of comic. However, it is trying to be a "serious" comic about what would happen if Selina were Batman. The fetish fuel takes you out of the comic.

3.As one who is all for sexuality, this comic makes me uncomfortable. Reason being? While with other hero/heroines, you can justify unreasonable outfits as it's magic/sci-fi/some sort of super power, the point of Batman is that he is a normal man, albeit in peak physical condition. And with Selina stepping into that role, I have to figure that she is not super powered. Now, while there is some willing suspension of disbelief, even in Batman, all I could think when I saw that costume is "There's two black eyes. Ouch, there goes her ribs. Sweet merciful Christ, I don't think she has anymore ankles. Oww!" Really kind of takes you out of the story, whatever little there is to be had.

4. Linkara has already made it clear that he does not review porn comics. Up to you if you disagree, but it is kind of douchey of you to insist that he conform to your standards, insult him when he does not, and then expect him not to pretty much tell you off. I am all about the sexual freedom stuff, but I know that some of my friends are not as liberal as I am. Instead of calling them prudes and being an arse to them, I respect them. Try it sometime.