Monday, June 13, 2011


Watch as Frank Miller continues to denegrate other superheroes just to make Batman look- wait, this was made in 1994?


Mountain King said...

"Opens bottle of scotch in anticipation of Miller time.*
(believe it or not I wrote that before I saw that you were drinking. Sometimes you scare me mate.)

Spawn meets Batman. It's one of those comics that the title alone sells it. Which is a plus because it's just not that good. Predictable, pointless and just empty. It felt like an event comic written because two editors thought it would be a good idea rather than something the fans and writers were pushing for. That this is in the same timeline as the two Dark Knight again just feels like they're trying to tie it into the more successful issues.

It's either that or Miller can't divorce himself from his own prototype-elseworlds work. Part of the whole lack of imagination with Miller

He had a (arguably) good ideas once but can't let them go. Even trying different approaches, like Sin City, its the same idea. Just repackaged. As he groped for new ways of writing the story Miller ended up clinging to hackney ideas. Becoming the writer we know from his later work.

Batman's biggest problem (outside of the Joker) is writers like these. Moench and Miller are so enamoured by him that they forget, as fantastic as he is, he only just about keeps up with the more super powered heroes in DC. They respect him and admire some of the things he's done, but in the end he's still a man in a costume. Things like this and JLA-act of god just come off silly. Having to weaken others one way or another making them turn to Batman, otherwise portrayed as a rival.

THe whole point of Batman is he's one of the very few Pulp heroes left in main stream comics. Someone who pushes himself everyday to be his best. Not some mad loner with a massive chip on his shoulder.

A fun review of a pointless comic that doesn't go anywhere.


Personally I'd suggest you hunt down a copy of Batman / Judge Dredd. An infinitely better team up, that has an ambiguous "Do they actually get along?" question at the end. It's interesting to see the two hard arses going at each other. Fascist Vs Vigilante being a major theme.
The art is a hell of a lot better too, if a little 90's UK (seriously you have got to google some of the art alone, it's… words fail me)

Anonymous said...

Wow. Usually Batman comics, even if they are bad, aren't boring. And Spawn #1 wasn't boring at all. I'm amazed that they made this crossover that uninteresting!

Also, surprised there wasn't a hotel california joke after "You can check in, but you can't check out." Oh well.

Moral Wiz said...

Ok, Linkara, my conncetion's slow, so I haven't seen your whole video yet. Thus, you might well know this already, and if so, I apologize

But I had to comment immediately on Dr. Margaret Love. That name, I remembered.

It's from Miller's unused script for Robocop 2; later turned into it's own comic, as recounted by Protoclown in the Longbox

So... Yeah, Miller's not writing Sin City. He's... apparently writing Robocop 2 instead!


Yeah, I'll leave that with you

SlyDante said...

Great review as always, Linkara! Though if you were looking for a good musical joke, I would've gone with "Heal the World" by Michael Jackson. Hell, I think I saw highlighted in that initial broadcast. =P

Matt said...

Let me guess, the "Aldebaran Whiskey" was actually Mountain Dew?

harmonicajay said...

Oh Frankie, I hate you as much as I hate Dan Didio. And in response to your Superman insult I have two words: Fuck you.

AussieDragoon said...

If she's a humanitarian, where's her iron satan mask, I mean come on, julian mcmahan got one where's her's?

countzeroor said...

Really good review. I'm not going to say that Spawn/Batman was the 90s at its worst, but that's definitely a comic that could only have existed in the 90s (particularly the early to mid 90s).

Out of curiosity - any plans to do reviews of the Batman/Punisher crossovers, or did you already do those and I missed them?

Jesse said...

I can't help thinking this would have been better if someone other than Frank Miller wrote it. Someone other than Rob Liefeld that is.

It's nice to see Batman use his brain in a comic again, lately I haven't seen that a whole lot.

I would suggest a "Take a Shot" game every time Frank Miller does something in a comic that hurts his reputation, but I think Linkara would get drunk faster than The Nostalgia Critic did when he did that same game for Stephan King's "It" review. Poor guy might end up AGREEING with 90s Kid.

Anonymous said...

Wait.....then does this mean the gauntlets from DKSA (the ones Crazy Steve beat up Superman with) are from here? Eeeeewwwwwww. Frank Miller continuity is icky.

Doink said...

liked the stinger

Anonymous said...

LOL how is this Spawn/Batman, when it's obviously just The Goddamn Batman In Spawn's Universe and Mucking Around in Spawn's Turf?

The line about the cape made me choke on my orange juice. :D Seriously, Batman has to be written well to be awesome. It's easy to veer into whiny-asshole-bitch-who-takes-himself-too-seriously territory if you're not thinking about the character and his personality properly when you're writing him.


Tyler said...

Hey Linkara, I just wanted ask if you would have other bad Frank Miller comics in Miller Time that aren't Batman? Don't get me wrong their hilarious, but considering he has done comics outside of Batman, I just hate seeing Batman become a arrogant jerk by Franky.

P.S. I'm surprised you didn't mock how Batman's cape is pointed up at the shoulders making him look like a vampire.

SuperNintendoChalmers said...

Wow, Frank. I'm a big Batman fan as well, but you'd think in a book titled "Spawn/Batman" you would write at least something for Spawn other than "Undisciplined Punk."

Anonymous said...

Wow. What I honestly can't beleive is that MacFarlane drew this AND allowed Frank to thoroughly trash his own character in the comic.

Anonymous said...

You got's Batmobile?

Anonymous said...

Frank Miller probably can't tolerate super powered heroes. His continuous Batman wank makes me want to puke. The sheer amount of disrespect Spawn gets in this comic is disrespectful to every Spawn fan.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Let me guess, the "Aldebaran Whiskey" was actually Mountain Dew?"

Pretty much. With Ecto Cooler off the market, I couldn't find anything else that was green.

Lewis Lovhaug said...


I ALWAYS leave you hanging on the story arc. XD We need to HAVE a status quo before it can be shaken up. ^_~ Don't worry, there's more stuff on the way, it's just sometimes there need to be a breather.

Razorvine said...

You know sometimes I am puzzled as to how Frank Miller is even allowed near characters other than Batman.

He clearly hates all other superhero characters. You didn't read them out loud in your review but I saw the narration by Spawns inner monologue and how he thought he was cheating when he was beating Batman. (At least that's what I thought I saw, am I right?)

Why would someone tap him to write a crossover story like this? He clearly has no respect for one of the hero's, not that I am a huge Spawn fan or anything like that. But Spawn was as I remember, a big deal back in the day.

He had fans that were no less devoted than any other superhero comics fans. And surely his creators took him seriously. I am surprised they didn't take one look at the finished product, and then tell Frank that perhaps he wasn't the best writer for the project.

Volvagia said...

I agree with Tyler. The next Miller Time should not involve Batman. He's done other stuff and we already know he writes Batman badly. Doing new things is the way to move forward. Being mired in Frank Miller's Batman and the Cry for Justice sequel isn't exactly new things.

FugueforFrog said...

The power glove joke was probably the best part. Other than that...all I know is that while Miller decided to make this in his alt-universe for Batman, McFarlane actually had Spawn meet him in his continuity...and considering some of what I've heard about the Spawn universe, I doubt even Batman wants to hang around in what's essentially hell on Earth...nm, DKSA.

And is it just me or does Batman and Superman always seem to be on the opposite sides of each other in these alt-unis? Batman seems to hate Superman and everything he stands for, yet we have Superman's love fest with Batman in the insanity of "Superman at Earth's End". What an abusive relationship.

greenjeans1978 said...

I'm surprised you didn't bring up all the times Batman kept calling Spawn -- a black man -- "boy" throughout the last half of this piece of shit. That's one of the more offensive things about SPAWN BATMAN; that Miller thinks Batman should not only be allowed to be rude, hateful, and psychotic, but also racist. Methinks Miller's idea of the "pure, good hero" is mighty skewed at best.

(Come to think of it, there was also much to be mined from Batman being a total dick to Alfred at the start, or Spawn's ever-disappearing mask, or the fact that Batman bandages his wounds OVER his costume in thtree panels only to have them vanish when he partners up with Margaret Love. But I guess there was only so much crap you could fit into this review.)

"I can't help thinking this would have been better if someone other than Frank Miller wrote it. Someone other than Rob Liefeld that is."

Jesse, DC did exactly that two months prior to SPAWN BATMAN. Their book, BATMAN & SPAWN: WAR DEVIL, was written by the entire Batman writing staff (Doug Moench, Chuck Dixon, and Alan Grant) and drawn by Klaus Janson. While Janson's art is not to everyone taste, the story in that book is excellent, and treats both characters with the proper respect. SPAWN BATMAN was supposed to be released at the same time, but was delayed when Miller's script ran ten pages over and McFarlane lengthened the book to accommodate him. Let's just say it wasn't worth the wait.

Jarkes said...

So, I have a question about the TGWTG 3rd anniversary: Is it going to be as long as Kickassia?

greenjeans1978 said...

Oh, before I forget, the inside cover at the end of the book claims this thing is dedicated in highest respect to Jack Kirby. I can't imagine a bigger insult to Kirby than dedicating a total artistic failure to the man's memory.

Jer Alford said...

Geez! Batman's cape looks like Linus' security blanket. Then again, he doesn have multiple uses for that thing.

E. Wilson said...

I think Miller Time may be my favorite recurring theme of your show, only vying with the annual looks the Spider-Man Clone Saga. (Ahh, memories....) Some thoughts:

Mad props for using Night Swimming. I don't care how much of a stretch you had to make for it.

The outline of that woman's head looks like Colorado.

I can't believe that there's a Batman/Spawn team up, and we get some generic nobody villain, instead of the INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS choice of an opposing Joker/Clown team up. It would have been incredibly stupid, but it might have at least passed into stupid-but-awesome territory.

And on a more serious note, I'm actually slightly conflicted about Batman's handling of Spawn. One of my pet peeves in 90's era comics is guys like Batman and Spider-Man, with strict no-killing rules, teaming up with and tolerating guys like the Punisher or Venom who not only have no problem killing, but pretty much go to it as a first resort. (Wolverine's a more complicated case, mostly because how willing he is to kill seems to vary wildly with the writer.)

So, yeah, Batman sees Spawn lighting guys on fire, and it doesn't matter how karmic a fate that may have been, I want Batman to try and take him down. Problem is, like a lot of Miller's story ideas, it was a decent thought executed terribly.

Dave Reynolds said...

One thing about the art that's always bugged me about this particular comic. Bugged me back in '94 and bugs me today. At about 14:10, when Batman's dressing his wounds... He's got two little bandages on the OUTSIDE of his mask. That's almost as sensible as putting a band-aid on the helmet of a football player, who's bleeding from the head.

Hard to believe this comic won the 1994 comic of the year award. Yeesh.

Gyre said...

The guns from a 'fallen dictatorship' is actually even more idiotic when you think about it. The kinds of weapons a street gang (or even most organized crime in the U.S) would be using could be easily gotten in the United States itself. Perhaps Mr. Miller forgot about our vast weapons industry and how easy it is to obtain weapons in this country. Or maybe he didn't want to admit that any weapons a gang uses in this country probably came from this country. Either one works.

And seriously, business deals between STREET gangs and a former state? I somehow suspect it'd be more profitable to sell them to West African mercenaries. How is a street gang supposed to be able to afford such advanced weapons, to say nothing of the cyborg? The drug trade might be profitable, but not for a small level street gang. That's the kind of hardware you'd expect some of the more powerful South American groups to have.

I notice that Batman's super weapon to fight Spawn is the glove which he has used once, has minimal familiarity with, has no idea what side effects may occur and apparently has never considered stockpiling any other weapons for anti-magic use. Even when Mr. Miller's trying to make him a god he instead comes off as an idiot. Maybe this is really Batman's twisted alternate self (sorta like Superman's Bizarro) with only 1/10 the intelligence of the true Batman.

Lastly, Batman dropped Superman's real name. The supposedly smarter Batman just revealed the first name of one of the most important people in the world. Even if Spawn isn't likely to be able to follow up on it that's such a horrible security risk that I'd fire anyone stupid enough to do that. You don't casually reveal the identity of Superman, not even indirectly.

@Mountain King: Good points.

Anonymous said...

Question, why does Linkara say that the this comic as continuity in the Dark Knight Returns when the third line in that box says "It does not represent current DC continuity."?(All in bold to)

Batzarro said...

Wow. Way to throw Spawn under the bus in this teamup. Even though he essentially beat Batman, saved Batman, and was instrumental to stopping that lady, he still just gets a big F-U from Batman. I mean, not every teamup has to end with the cliche of both heroes shaking hands and saying the other is cool and they could have been friends. But this doesn't look good for BATMAN, which makes it worse because he's the guy Miller's trying to bolster.

smurasaki said...

Several people have suggested that Frank Miller doesn't like super-powered superheroes (and I think they may be right), but the funny thing about that is that his love for Batman, besides turning him into Crazy Steve, pretty much makes Batman super-powered. His abilities - when he has them - are too much. (Not that he's the only one who does this to Batman, of course.)

I'd ask how Miller can fail to notice that, but, well, this is the man who brings us Crazy Steve and talking asses. :(

Michael said...

Was the "Ominous Hum" a shout out to Schlock Mercenary? If so, might I suggest adding Ovalkwik to your selection of drinks.

Anonymous said...

Poor Spawn... can't get no respect.
I find it hilarious that Frank wants you to praise Batman. But he writes him no better then the 2d villian. Miller's Batman is self centered, arrogant beyond all comprehension and by all standards ever decent human being/Superhero would have hunted him down like the Lunatic he is.

Also, let's be far She was kinda to dumb to live with that hair. Spawn deserves a medal.

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Question, why does Linkara say that the this comic as continuity in the Dark Knight Returns when the third line in that box says "It does not represent current DC continuity."?(All in bold to)"

Because the Dark Knight Returns is not the canon future of the DC Universe. It's a story set in an alternate future.

Katherine said...

"I love the Power Glove. It's so bad."

LUCAS! XD Loved the reference to "The Wizard."

Good grief, Mr. Miller, why do you have to make Batman such an ungrateful, petty, and childish jerk? No, Spawn, this Batman is not the hero that everyone thinks he is, because he's more concerned with making himself looking good than actually being heroic. And does Miller hate Superman or does he remain convinced that Batman hates Superman? I don't understand why he insists on making Batman so antagonistic towards Superman. It’s one thing to believe that they couldn’t be friends; it’s another to believe that Batman would be so hostile towards him.

Alain M. Diaz said...

Oh Frank Miller... what happened? Seriously, you look at his original work on Daredevil and Batman Year One, and you'd never guess it was the same man who wrote AS-BaR. None of his current work is taken seriously anymore. And when he writes Batman, it doesn't even sound like he LIKES the character anymore. I mean, yeah, he makes Batman into this unstoppable machine of ass-kickery, but not in a way that fans can respect. Instead it feels like he's doing all he can to make him creepy, unlikable and perverted.

So Linkara, are you as grateful as I am that "Holy Terror, Batman!" is not going to happen anymore. Or rather, it's not going to happen with Batman in the book anymore, who is instead being exchanged for an original character.

Still, a disturbingly curious part of you has to wonder what horrible abomination of a story it would have turned out to be if Miller had tried to stick with Bats.

DrIvoRobotnik said...

Wow, talk about having no respect for a character. I've never read Spawn before, but the poor lug really got the shaft in this comic. I'll bet the Spawn fanbase really loathes this one.

Anonymous said...

I like the discussion on the "burn the Earth to save it" villains. My take was always just that they just don't care what happens after they die, kind of like Alexander the Great.

It's sort of the reckless disregard of resources Ra's al Ghul is trying to doing a very similar (if better thought out) thing.

Ming said...

Did I ever tell you I loved your Miller Time features? Anyway, loved your review on this unnecessary cross-over. I can't believe they actually did something like this. How did Frank Miller screw up something that should have been compelling? When Marvel did Maximum Carnage (Spider-man forced to team-up with Venom), that was crazy but awesome.

So, have you considered other segments for Atop the Fourth Wall, like a Raiders of the Story Arc-style feature?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"Was the "Ominous Hum" a shout out to Schlock Mercenary? If so, might I suggest adding Ovalkwik to your selection of drinks."

It was indeed, and there's no way I could - I'd never be able to ingest just the powder.

Anonymous said...

Actually, assimilation plots regarding eliminating the "evils of free will" can be EXTREMELY creepy and effective if written well.

This comic, obviously, did not write it well.

Anonymous said...

In the animated series Batman says "please" when he asks someone to let go of his cape.

Robert 'Staredcraft' Willing said...

Actually Lewis, an dI wanted to tell you this before you wrote this episode but I was too late, I met Angel Medina who did artwork for Spawn and he told me (NOT in exact quotes):

Basically Todd has the belief that the capes should be drawn as if they were alive and be characters of themselves. He beleives this for ANY character with a cape even Superman. He told Angel this is how he wanted Spawn's cape drawn and Angel has since kept true to this with most of his other artwork w/ capes.

RTKGuy said...

This marks the second occasion that I've actually read a comic you've reviewed, Linkara. Can't say I'm celebrating the occasion, though.

Miller's attempts to make Batman look that much better than Spawn only seems to make Batman look that much worse. Crazy, easily fooled, overly aggressive... I thought Batman came off badly in this comic. Spawn wasn't great, either, but at least he didn't look crazy.

My brother-in-law usually has good taste in comics, but I think he has a blind spot for Frank Miller. Not me, though.

Anonymous said...

I'm pretty sure the idea of sending Batman after Spawn was so that the resulting fight would leave both too weak to handle the Cyber Crabs she sent to mop up.

As to why she was selling weapons, maybe she needed the money to carry out her plot? Her plans involved there not being a Gothem (or much else) after they were completed anyway, so why not sell off the surplus equipment?

Psychotime said...

Confound that Frank Miller! He drives me to drink!

Razorgeist said...

@Moral Wiz: Oh God that's the same woman from the Robocop comic I think Im gonna wretch!

This is terrible I get the distinct impression that MacFarlane just didnt care enough to put as much effort into this as he should have. I dont blame him either I mean look how Miller treated Spawn.

So link I hope you had a good vintage on your blood wine you know what they say "2309 there is no finer vintage"!

boooratt said...

BooRat - Other Crossoever comics
Awesome review! I'm glad you actually reviewed one I own and read already! I haven't read the sequal Devil War, but I'm thinking about it now just because of that little comment at the end when you said it was actually pretty good!

When I 1st bought this comic I got it mostly for the Spawn connection and Iwas abit dissapointed in hi lack of a role in the comic!

Also, this reminds me of another comicI'd like to see you review! It's another Frank Miller comic and a crossover title but it's all Dark Horse inhouse series! And, a very rare and kinda exspincive comic to buy well the trade is! RoboCop Vs. The Terminator! I just got lucky and bought the trade myself on ebay for $15 and I think you might be able to get one to or might already got it and just knowing Miller's nature it's gotta be completely insane!
Yet another one that's rare and from what I read very bad is a comic called Jason Vs. Leatherface! From what I understand of it the covers give you the image of the 2 fighting to the death and or going on a rampage and killing lots of people, but te actually story is they meet up and become friends and Jason joins the Sawyer family!

Also, I must beg you! BEG YOU! To do a review of this 3-way crossover comic I bought and thought just from the title it'd be awesomebut it was complete crap to me was Aliens Vs. Predator Vs. The Terminator! I was the worst ever the Aliens had hardly a role in it!
Also, Freaking Witchblade/Darkness Vs. Aliens/Predator because ofjust so many thing name a 2 page spread with 2 large word bubbles with unreadible gibberish like there was something written there but the ink ran and blurred it too the point it was completely crap!
So, will you PLEASegive this comics a shot!? I beg it of you Linkara!!!

Jaebird said...

"Now let's take a right turn into stupid."

I want that on a T-shirt. Also, funny review, and I must say I almost came into possession of this comic for free. But my common sense told me "no". And then it told me to do other things, which I'm not proud of.

Anonymous said...

Great, now I have to go watch "Relics" again and see Scotty's face when he takes a drink of synthohol...

-M4A said...

Aldebaran Whiskey did you get that from Guinan or Quark.

Yogurt said...

I'm convinced that Frank Miller just wants to sabotage Batman as a character so he portrays him as a petulant creep who is more of a menace to the city that the villains he fights.

Anonymous said...

I'm about to say something very controversial but I need to say it....stories like this are why Batman is a pet character for authors who are perfect, unstoppable, can do no wrong, and spotlight stealers which happens at the detriment of other characters.

This is why I have gripes with characters like Batman, Wolverine, Boba Fett, (here comes the controversial part, especially for you Linkara) Tommy from Power Rangers, Drift from the Transformers comics he appears in, and Alice from the Resident Evil movies.

As for the crossover, Batman more or less got in the way of Spawn who probably could have beaten the generic villain on his own without Batman's aid.

Kalos said...

I suppose drinking Miller Lite would have been too corny... and disgusting.

PickyGamer said...

@No story arc development: Aww. I wanted to see how you dealt with the oncoming threat while drunk.

Starscream said...

I got this comic a long time ago.

It was awful back then, and it is still awful now.


Anonymous said...

This is why I have gripes with characters like Batman, Wolverine, Boba Fett, (here comes the controversial part, especially for you Linkara) Tommy from Power Rangers, Drift from the Transformers comics he appears in, and Alice from the Resident Evil movies.

How is that contraversial, The PR community openly admits Tommy is treated as such. Heck you had one writer who if you read about any of his original plans always wanted to turn Tommy into this Elitist smuck so finally all the other rangers could knock him off his pedestal*Hint, Rocky was going to be a butler*

Frankie Addiego said...

Wait, you had to reach for a song joke? The ship is called "Heal the World," so why not that song?

Agent Michigan said...

No joke on how it was in memory to Jack Kirby?

Carrie Kelly said...

FugueforFrog said:

"And is it just me or does Batman and Superman always seem to be on the opposite sides of each other in these alt-unis? Batman seems to hate Superman and everything he stands for, yet we have Superman's love fest with Batman in the insanity of "Superman at Earth's End". What an abusive relationship."

That's...actually sort of creepy. I mean, even in regular continuity it's pretty clear that Superman likes Batman more than Batman likes Superman. Even when taking into account that Supes likes *everyone* and Bats likes almost no one, it's clear that the respect and admiration, while not one-sided, is rather lopsided. So when it gets exaggerated ridiculously, both in regular continuity and in comics like Millers or Earth's End, it makes Batman look like a creepy asshole and Supes like a chump.

Also, I don't understand why Miller made Batman randomly insult Superman in the middle of this comic. I mean, even though it makes me roll my eyes, I understand why he'd do it in a comic that actually had something to do with Superman, but here? There's not getting along with someone, and then there's having obsessive vitriol for a guy who's never actually DONE anything to you to the point of going out of your way to insult him to random strangers who don't even know who you're talking about. You're right Linkara — it does make Batman seem like a) he's got some unhealthy homophobia-tainted crush on Clark, and also b) like he's insanely jealous, resentful, and insecure in his own abilities and philosophies, which is a really un-badass thing to be. For a guy who obviously idolizes Batman to death, Miller sure makes him look like a lame, whiny, pathetic douchebag. This seriously pisses me off, since Batman is one of my favorite characters ever and "pathetic" is never a word I'd use to describe him.

Also, Clark Kent has won Pulitzer Prizes and managed to keep his identity a secret while working right under the nose of the best investigative reporter in the country, Crazy Steve. YOU kidnapped a kid, mowed down a bunch of cops in front of him, and made him eat rats. So you calling someone "dumb" doesn't really convince me.

sekele said...

hmrh, was the fact that you referred to this comic as "Batman slash Spawn" and then later told them to "make-out already" coincidental?

Ironic how Frank wanted to make Batman the better man, but ended-up making him a hindrance to Spawn, who could have solved the crisis on his own

Also considering the recent development, this comics comes off as prophetic.
Think about it, according to this, Miller's Batman share's a world with both DC and Image heroes!
And that's exactly what's happening now, when DC is integrating the Image characters they bought from Jim Lee into mainstream DC!

It gets even more awesome once you realize that the additions include the homosexual counterparts of Batman and Superman - Midnighter and Apollo, who are a couple
Brings Batman's obsession with Superman into a new light if you ask me

I know that you don't watch the Brave and the Bold, but they actually managed to fix the overpowering that Batman has been receiving, by doing an homage to his fight with Superman from the Dark Knight Returnes - but with a twist of making the fight more "realistic"

(the set-up is that Lex Luthor dosed Superman with Red Kryptonite, and now he's out of control)

Volvagia said...

He maybe IdoliZED Batman to death, but I don't know if he does anymore. All Star, ending this with Batman throwing a batarang in Spawn's eye, The Dark Knight Strikes Again and even (if we take some of the comments Batman makes juxtaposed with the images as signs of unreliability) The Dark Knight Returns do form a cohesive portrait. The issue becomes what are we supposed to take from this portrait? Generally, of a psychotic, repressed homosexual or bisexual (based on how accurate you take Dick Grayson's comments of Batman grooming Carrie Kelly for sex, which does seem frighteningly plausible, what with her being re-christened Catgirl in the interim between Returns and Strikes Again) with occasional urges towards people MUCH younger than himself. So, pretty much, Frank Miller's read on the character has been a character who starts at Type IV (Year One), goes through Type V (by the time of All Star Batman and Robin), goes back through type IV (post death of Jason Todd until the end of The Dark Knight Returns) and ends at type V (Dark Knight Strikes Again) on TV Tropes Sliding scale of Anti-heroes. Miller seems to be saying that Bruce Wayne is always a bit crazy, but that any extended period of being Batman will fairly quickly turn him back into CRAZY STEVE. I don't think it's right, and I don't think Miller has anywhere close to a good bead on the character, but I can't completely fault the logic of what Miller is TRYING to say about the concept of Batman.

Dreamer Horwitz said...

1. I don't think it's a good idea to drink when you have something, possibly demonic, aboard the ship.
2. YESH! This comic's a mess. The build up is good, but once that's done, that seems to be the exact point when Miller lost himself. At least the millerverse Batman hasn't gone nuts at this point, as far as I can tell.

Volvagia said...

Carrie Kelly: Clark Kent being able to convince people he's not Superman only shows that he's a skilled actor. The only psychological facet Crazy Steve doing those things in All Star Batman and Robin reveals is that he's bonkers. (Millerverse Superman: Average intelligence, compassionate, great actor, tons of superpowers. Crazy Steve: Completely psychotic man with vast intellect and a bunch of wonderful toys.)

Jacob the Black-op said...

Hi, Linkara. I came to this place after Littlekuriboh featured you in his "CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES" video. I was wondering, since he appeared in your Bimbos in Time review, and you made a guest appearance in episode 45 of Yugioh the Abridged Series, I was wondering if you guys could do a review together. That would make my life complete. :D

Anonymous said...

I have no idea what the point of this whole, "team-up" comic was. the team-up isn't even a team-up, unless you count Spawn and Batman beaten the shit out of each other, and the only reason why they beat the villian of this story was because she was so F***ing stupid. I wonder if this was where Miller first got the inspiration to turn Batman from the man we all know and love into a comic version of Norman Bates.

Also, do you think it was just Frank Miller's dream to be a poet but he failed and ended up as a comic writer? To me, it might make some sense.

Xain said...

I must say that I object to you automatically dismissing the argument that people are harmful and should be removed or improved as stupid.

Anonymous said...

"I must say that I object to you automatically dismissing the argument that people are harmful and should be removed or improved as stupid."

LOL! Hahahaha you're right of course she should have given a list of reasons for not exterminating the human race!

....Oh wait. You were serious.

Actually, come to think of it, your comment may have just proved your own point.

Ozaline said...

Hey Lewis, just a heads up if you hadn't noticed all of Power Rangers (both disney and Saban) is on Netflix instant... in addition to VR Troopers and Big Bad Beetle Borgs.

Don't know if the Saban Masked Rider is though.

Volvagia said...

There's an inherent problem in that kind of misanthropy, Xain, especially if applied to villains: If this was a tabletop RPG, they'd have a zero or negative charisma stat. It's not that the idea itself is stupid, but the idea that they could somehow, as if out of thin air, get a mass of willing followers and build up a corporation (and never, ever get rats inside said corporation, revealing how hateful and dangerous Ms. Love is, once it gets past a certain size) is what's stupid. To be believable, they'd have to be doing such things ENTIRELY on their own. See also: Johnny the Homicidal Maniac, which presents the idea of "humans should be removed or improved" much less stupidly. I don't agree with the title character, but there's more plausibility and intelligence to the philosophy in that comic than in this one, whether or not you agree with such a viewpoint.

Anonymous said...

Wow, the narration, and Batman's characterization, were just painful. I don't know how Miller can put these words on paper thinking that they sound even half decent. I can't believe that this the oafish, idiotic, growling brute is supposed to be the same intelligent character that I've enjoyed in so many other stories.

Anonymous said...

Klingon Blood wine and Aldebaran whiskey to handle this comic? ... I can only imagine the hangover you had the next day...

... But after all that stupid, the hangover would be worth it. Loved the references, btw.

Fiery Little One

GuitarZero183 said...

I actually kind of liked this comic when I first read it, but seeing you document one of my favourite 80s era writers spiral into crazy makes me sad and I have to admit your deconstruction of the issue does highlight a lot of his later problems.

Off topic I know but I have a comic you might want to tear to shreds on the show.

Warren Ellis' Doktor Sleepless. I know Spoony loves the guy and I bought Nextwave under your recommendation (Zombie Dirk Anger is awesome) but my GOD the entire 13 issue run is so boring.

I was expecting something close to mad Science (Huge crab robots rampaging in a city, big mutants etc. etc.) what I got was a big sack of WTF and a load of talking and hacking radio stations.

In 13 issues the supposed mad scientist farts about in his mansion, stalks his old girlfriend and hacks radio signals. No super villain plans or giant battles against superheroes nothing.

Thank god for Nextwave is all I can say.

The Letter M said...

Wait, if it is possible to have a crossover between Batman and Spawn, doesn't that mean that by extension there could be more crossovers between DC and Image out there, or even between DC, Image, and Marvel as well?

Enigma_2099 said...

Is this just proof that fran Miller has a blow-up Batman doll he keeps in his closet for those lonely nights?

Anonymous said...

Spawn's cape is yards cooler than Batman's. (literally, given the size)

JLH said...

All the talk about homeless guys in the comic, and no guest appearance by Lester B. Bum?

The one interesting aspect of Spawn/Batman was that the Batarang injury to his face remained in continuity. When Todd resumed doing the book after taking a few issues off to do the special, the first thing we saw was Spawn stitching the wound with an old shoelace. And it remained like that for years afterward. Of course, they then went in and retconned it out as having been done by someone else, but the timing of it, and his blaming a "bozo in black" was pretty clear at the time.

And would you believe this story was titled "Red Scare" in the solicitations? Where the hell were the Soviets in this?!

Finally, to promote the issue, Wizard had Todd draw Spawn and Frank draw Bats on a cover. Here it is:

Apparently, no one told the other who would be drawing the moon...

Captain Sake Mangusto said...


"you seem to spend an awful lot of time around here making posts that have no relevance to the topics of the posts"

Bad karma always goes around, didn't you know ? Do you think you would keep pissing in Frank Miller's grave for so long without the whole universe making pay for it eventually (despite the fact Frank is not even dead yet)?

"You have indeed slowed down with that, but you STILL DO IT. You make the same points over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and you can't just leave well enough alone".

Just like you did everytime you post a Miller Time but i guess we are both consistent and i stop trying to be fun while you do all the jokes every single moment your mind snaps for no reason, at least actually for no reason.

"You make multiple comments on the same post... Most commenters are lucky to make one or two posts in a single day... usually only when I make a new post on the blog... You, on the other hand, post multiple times a day on whatever whim you have and I am tired of reading... I have honestly never been frustrated by a poster as much as I have with you..."

Nice, now as karma kicks in imagine if other fans of you and Miller alike discover that they can make the same thing as i usually did so far, imagine your 4.000 fans making comments about your show in one single day, imagine none of them misbehaving, starting flame wars or being obnoxious, imagine them just posting concern polite comments like my own and trying to engaging you into conversation, you allegedly read ALL comments here, can you imagine the chaos if let's say 300 Miller fans engage in non-provocative commentary activities : Again Ladies and Gentlemen : Our Heroes Dilemma and The Karma that brings in.

"You seem to make demands of me..."

I Never ask for anything unreasonable but you always have the right to say No or just ignore it.

"you are unsatisfied with my response..." Our Lack of It "...and continue to make demands..." Again all of them in a civilized fashion

"...just don't realize that the matter is SETTLED...we were taught different things, end of story..."

Don't expect me watch a bunch of ignorant kids showing how much stupid they are without me commenting something about.

"YOU are the only one keeping things going..."

if i was absolutely wrong you would not post my comments when there is actually a few reasons to keep things going on.

"I really, REEEEAAALLY have tried to be patient and kind...Sake, YOU ARE GETTING ON MY NERVES".

You said that all the time, you are starting to sound like Capt. Trunk from Sledge Hammer Tv Series and each time you repeat it self is really start to sound more and more funny because Again : "Did you really expected the universe would not make you pay in some odd, weird, unexpected out of fashion way for everything you said about Frank Miller all this years ?

I am the best reluctant non-engaging villain your has ever had because :

A) i'm not trying be funny anymore;
B) i'm not really trolling, i am just talking, expressing my concerns and being polite;
C)For some reason - and that the hilarious unexpected part - you feel genuinely annoyed and frustrated because i am more prolific than the average commentators and at each comment i keep improving my self in ways that can't be really called annoying unless you have to read 4095 characters of reasonable scripted grammar;

" post and post and post add nothing to a conversation!"

That's debatable.

"I am begging, BEGGING you to take a step back..."

I'm glad i made yourself beg without even had the need to write and publish a comic, mission accomplished on this side of the fence for Millerists around the world.

To Be Continued...

Captain Sake Mangusto said...

And Now the Conclusion...

"I don't want to dislike you, Sake - I don't want to dislike ANY of my fans - without you guys, I couldn't do this, but as I've said, seeing that you have YET ANOTHER post I need to approve (multiple times in the same day), it just makes me want to sigh and groan. So please, PLEEEAAASSEEEE consider what I have said."

Lines like that really made yourself sound like a fool and i can't believe you didn't think twice before post those ridiculous lines, for most of the people this will probably looks like a side show you and me agree to do through the comments section but i am posting this comments here where nobody will probably read it - if you approve the comment anyway - because as already establish repeatedly karma always goes around to haunted you for all your deeds and you are the only one who really need to read this because looks like you really need a drink and a suicide gun when dealing with your reading skills, are you really not acting when complaining about reading long comments ?

Anyway you made me laugh when i was not expecting, thanks for keep an smile on my face.

P.S.: you should stop sleeping at odd hours, this makes nasty things with your nerves.

End Credits Batman the Dark Knight Theme

Lewis Lovhaug said...

...And the only question I have i response to all of that is: why are you posting this in response to Spawn/Batman as opposed to the actual place where you are quoting from?

And the reason I'm letting this through is that you ARE being polite and civil...

...And then you called me a fool. Hate to break it to you, but hurling insults in my direction doesn't make me see you as the one who's being treated unfairly. I've held back on several occasions in the past from telling you all the things I posted there primarily BECAUSE you were, for the most part, civil and kept things in line, but sometimes you just reach a point where you're tired of it and I reached that point.

Captain Sake Mangusto said...

And you called Frank Miller a Hack, why did you do this ? For humorous effect of course and that's why i did the same with a less infamous word, there are words a lot more hurtful, you know ?

And why i post here instead in the originally time&
space location ?

Because i am not here to steal the show, only you would read this at the end anyway and i doubt anybody else is seriously following this argument between two gentlemen who at the end of the day deeply respect each other.

I am the Q of your Picard, the Void of your Sentry, The Professor Moriarty of your Sherlock Holmes, The Joker of your Batman, i am your proverbial low budget rival version of yourself, but is holiday season and you clearly need a break.

And as a token of my appreciation a small lesson for you Lewis : "In Brazil we say : Only your real friends call you by names at your presence before other friends or even alone with you, meanwhile most of your real enemies wait you go away before calling you by names before others or even when they are alone behind your back when you can't listen them mocking about you"!

It's a matter of respect in my culture and i if i recall correctly Benjamin Franklin tells something similar for John Adams in the episode Reunion of the same name television mini-series and i quote :

Benjamin Franklin: "The English love an insult. It's their only test of a man's sincerity".

Could a true friend really put a friendship at risk so many times if he was not honest, sincere, respectful and above all free of prejudice ?

We can't agree about everything all the time but we are free to poke each other from time to time because is fun, i just push you more than i should that all but i never lost my admiration for you despite the fact the real Ben Franklin also said :

"Admiration is the daughter of ignorance".

So probably i am even more foolish than you, can we call that a tie ?

Quoting the first Doctor and finishing :

"One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine as i always knew i was not everytime you post a reasonable comment send for appproval by me".

See you at next Miller Time.

Anonymous said...

I was tempted of having a group of "purge the world of humanity" people in one of my writing projects. The reason they commit acts of heavy destruction (like using nukes) is simultaneously because they believe themselves to be treated to a reward in the afterlife (most likely virgins or something), and because they're completely insane fundamentalists and didn't think it through.

James diGriz said...

When batman whines about "Don't touch my cape", I was thinking about "the Adventures of Brisco County Jr" and the character of "Pete Hutter" and his obsession with his gun.

"No one touches Pete's piece!"

Uzumakiclan45 said...

Know what's amazing? The caped crusader can survive battles Hellspawn, acid-spitting extraterrestrials, freefalls from space to the surface of the Earth, duels to the death with interstellar bounty hunters and martial artists, the Nineties, sharks, robotic dinosaurs, lethal gas, being lit on fire, death itself, and campy Hollywood directors, but, let Frank Miller get his hands on him, and he suffers a fate worse than death.

Nazaru said...

Really hope you do a review on Spawn and Batman: War Devil.

Anonymous said...

You included my favourite quote from 'Dune'. Hilariously.

Anonymous said...

Spawn must have missed "Just Another Saturday Night" entirely. Setting bums on fire does not end up fun for the crook, at least not in the Millerverse.

Djiinnrae said...

Hmm... you know, aside from the usual talk about why this villain type is utterly lame and ill-conceived, why do ALL of the nature/natural order-themed villains ALWAYS point to mini-malls as a source or result of humanity's evil? Why? What is so horrible about humanity making small concentrated installments where they can buy new cookware, pick up some craft supplies and get an ice cream cone in one car trip?

Regardless, why would anyone let Miller make a team-up comic, especially one involving Batman? We all know how he's stalkerishly in love with Batman and just wants to write Batman fanfics with him always being the biggest and the best of everything. You would think to get someone who'd at least attempt to balance the characters because team-ups are supposed to market toward the fans of one or both. I thought this was, like, common sense?

It's such a shame how one-note successful artists (writers, filmmakers, etc.) seem to skate by and continue to be praised by either fans who try hard to like their stuff, or by publishers who seem to count a few big successes as groundbreaking and a license to do whatever when they don't have a lot to offer but what they already have. Really, that's the feeling I get from Miller. Actually, now that I think about it, the comic book industry is just like the video game industry: some people make and publish things for the love of them and with sincere belief in its goodness, but others will feed off of big-name cred and the hope of fans that the next title in the series could live up to what it once was.

Sorry, that was very ranty... but I really do feel like the sometimes-excellent writer has been reduced to little more than a marketing ploy by the publisher; I'm a little surprised there aren't more comics that are like the novels where all you see is a huge "Mary Higgins Clark" on the cover with the title somewhere below.

Anonymous said...

To Linkara:
Do you want to do a review on two Batman/Spider-man crossovers?

Lewis Lovhaug said...

"To Linkara:
Do you want to do a review on two Batman/Spider-man crossovers?"

Nope, because I actually own both and I rather like them (though I prefer the second one more than the first).