A new series! I take a quick look at my weekly pulls and give my immediate thoughts on them. Agree? Disagree? Suggestions on the format? Feel free to post below and discuss. This week I look at Flashpoint #5 and Justice League #1.
NOTE: This series, as I say in the video, is quick and dirty. I haven't read the books multiple times to spot any mistakes I make - it's just my IMMEDIATE reactions upon finishing them, so I'm bound to miss things or make errors.
ANOTHER NOTE: Please, please, please, please, PLEASE read the comments before you make one yourself. Someone has probably pointed out something to me before you could.
Wednesday, August 31, 2011
That's All I'm Saying: 8-31-11
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135 comments:
ANOTHER New series?! You spoil us, sir.
Dude, thanks so much for reviewing the new 52.
Video still hasn't shown up yet, but I wanted to tell you my impression.
Flashpoint works much, MUCH better as a whole. Reading the one-shots & minis helps build up the world depicted & I honestly enjoyed it. It could have been a bit better, especially at the end, but I did (repeating myself) enjoy it.
Justice League #1 was alright too. It serves it's purpose as being an introduction book for new readers, but honestly it is just the first part of a decompressed (not that there's anything wrong with it) origin story. It'll spend it's first five or six issues telling the origin story in the past and then, apparently, go into the present.
There are things that I'll miss about the DCU, but I'm looking forward this new launch with hope. I haven't seen anything that looks offensively bad (as a reader who started reading books around 2004, I honestly have to say... so what if something looks like it came from the 90's. Yeah it's the lowest point in comics history, but that doesn't mean that it'll be automatically bad!). Hope you give the DCnU a chance Lewis, and not just be a naysaying "This'll blow up in DC's faces/I can't wait until this blows up in their faces" kinda person that I've (unfortuneately) been seeing a lot of.
i am in the exact same boat as you. This was very underwhelming and I will be following all 52 as well. Also thanks for recommending the Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle, I am really enjoying it.
Interesting: I was going to rewatch the PR Zeo review and this pops up. Interesting new concept, can't wait to see what you do with it.
And yeah...decompression is probably a massive problem with comic books from what I've seen of the big 2. Instead of telling a ton of interesting adventures over a year, they do one or two and are stuck in that same messy timeline that comic books usually get into. It works in manga because it's a serial read, being weekly. In American comics it just doesn't work.
The general consensus I'm seeing in reviews of Justice League #1 is that as a launch title for the new DC Universe is rather underwhelming.
I actually really liked Justice League #1, I think it did a good job setting the general mood of the series, and showed us how these two heroes will interact in the future. I didn't have as much of a problem with the "Green Lantern ring" scene as you did, however.
I really think it's a solid introduction, and while I too would have preferred to see a couple more heroes in this issue, I'm still relatively hopeful about this whole relaunch-thing.
Okay, it's reasonable that you could miss the five years ago thing right in the beginning of JL. JL as it is is a flashback to the beginning of the new DC universe, same for action comics. The end of Flashpoint leads into the present day of the new DC universe. There are no multiple timelines that I know of, and mystery woman implies they've all been made one.
By the way, check JL again, the part where Cyborg is playing Football. In the stands is mystery woman, so she's thing that's apparently been seen in all of the number ones (the previews that is).
Anyway Lewis, there's no defending Flashpoint, it was pretty uninspired. But man, the negativity coming off of you there. I know you're coming at it from the old guards perspective, but continuity quibble in a series that just started? Feels like you're searching for reasons to hate the new DC Universe.
I have to disagree with your assessment of timelines and how the difference between the end of Flashpoint 5 and JLA 1 back the notion up, alas.
The Flshpoint splash clearly shows three images for different imprints/"timelines" (DCU, Vertigo and Wildstorm) on the left side, and -- after the merging, one assumes -- two images which both illustrate DCnU characters. The implication is that the three have recombined into the DCnU.
That Barry is friendly with Batman at the end of Flashpoint (with them both wearing the DCnU costumes) but the various characters in JLA 1 aren't that friendly and don't know each other isn't very diagnostic because it would all depend on when/where Barry was "spit out again" -- since JLA's first story arc takes places when the League formed and then the book is supposed to jump forward the five years, the Flashpoint end can just as easily simply be set in the DCnU's actual "present" when Barry and Bruce are more familiar with each other.
So, just the one universe/timeline; they're just being sloppy with the presentation.
"Anyway Lewis, there's no defending Flashpoint, it was pretty uninspired. But man, the negativity coming off of you there. I know you're coming at it from the old guards perspective, but continuity quibble in a series that just started? Feels like you're searching for reasons to hate the new DC Universe."
Well, the continuity quibbles only came about because I didn't see the teeny, tiny little caption on the second panel that said "Five Years Ago" that I completely missed when I read it the first time. As such, since it takes place five years earlier it isn't a continuity issue.
my full thoughts on the DC reboot can be read here:http://www.facebook.com/notes/brandon-glawe/the-dc-reboot-the-real-problem/10150278731973292
to summarize it though I agree with Linkara that Flashpoint feels like a regular story line turned into a continuity shift. Blackest night felt like a more major event than flashpoint. But the main problem with the event and this reboot in general is that unlike every other continuity shake up. this one is not just changing Continuity but abandoning the comics history as well. It's why I won't buy any of the DCnU until I know when the original universe will be coming back. Also I read on DCwomenkickass that this all started because they wanted to put superman in a love triangle. That is the worst reason to destroy a universe ever.
Awesome new series Linkara! Im sure ill enjoy it, but i just have to say a couple of things. First I really hope you dont let any resentment about the relaunch color your opinions on the books. Take them as they are, and try not to become wrapped up in what could have been. Now that Im saying that Im sure you wont, as you have been generally proffesional about this whole thing so far and I appreciate that.
Second, Im not sure what exactly you were expecting from JL 1. In my opinion it did exactly what it was trying to do in introducing the characters and the new world they are inhabiting. It seems like they are really trying to take their time to introduce the character seperatly, I guess to give them each development, instead of just throwing all seven characters at you in a single issue and having them all of a sudden become team mates. You have to remember this will be the first time these heroes have met before, you cant just have them all meet up and say oh there's this guy named Darkseid who is threatening the planet, lets team up to stop it even though we haven't the slightest clue who darkseid even is.
Third you seem to be slightly mistaken about something. The scene from the end of Flashpoint #5 takes place five years after Justice League #1. JL is a flashback origin story taking place five years before the "present" time in the other books. The old DCU became the DCnU at the end of Flashpoint, since it merged the worlds of Vertigo, Wildstorm and DC,which im assuming are the three worlds in question.
Oh and as a final note Batman taking the ring off of GL's finger made sense to me. He was underestimating
Batman for not having any powers and was being super arrogant. The purpose of the scene was basically to tell the readers who may be new to the characters to not underestimate Batman just because he doesnt have flight or super strength.
Anyway sorry for going on so long. I hope you enjoy the DCnU!
"So, just the one universe/timeline; they're just being sloppy with the presentation."
Presentation is indeed the problem. I'm not a Wildstorm reader WHATSOEVER, as such when mystery woman said that "three timelines needed to be merged together" I didn't know she was talking about Wildstorm. I figured some of the images were of DCNu, some were from the old timeline, and some were from Flashpoint, which I equally did not read from lack of interest in the universe it created.
Also, don't say "three time lines" when you only show two of the damn things, and even more so actually SAY if the time lines are merged, all that she says is that they need to be united to stop the coming threat and that Barry can help, but doesn't say HOW he can help.
When they meant "This is the book to follow", DC didn't literally mean this sole issue. They were talking about the series "Justice League" and it's first arc.
Also, if you haven't even bothered to check out the tie-in series of Flashpoint, how can you honestly say the whole thing was uninspired?
I believe that Justice League and Action Comics are supposed to be set 5 years in the past, where as everything else will be in the present in this weird merged timeline. Also, the mystery woman is appearing in each new comic, apparently. She's in the crowd at Vic's football game in JL 1.
No comment on Flashpoint #5, you described all my problems with it. Though one thing worth noting was the scene between Flash, and Batman at the end was possibly the best part of the whole series.
As for Justice League:
1. This book takes place 5 years ago, and apparently some of the books will be taking place in the past (Action Comics, Justice League), while the other are in the present.
2. I agree, I love the art, though Wonderwoman's hair is gonna take some getting used to.
3. I don't mind the Vic Stone subplot, but the rest of the pacing definitely could use some work.
4. The banter between Bruce, and Hal is awesome (minus the ring being removed part).
One other thing to mention, since you had stated it in your Kamandi review is that they intend to focus on Supes being an alien to this world, and the feeling of not belonging.
Other than that, some of the 52's I'm looking forward to:
Static Shock - Loved the show, but never read the original comics.
New Guardians - All the different Lantern colors forming a new group seems interesting.
Red Lanterns - My favorite of the Corps. and Atrocitus is a character I would love to know more about.
Firestorm - Gail Simmon is writing, and I was my interest was piqued when I saw him in Blackest Night.
Blue Beetle - Thanks to your tribute video.
Birds of Prey - Probably won't pick this up, but I want to know if Oracle still exists.
"Also, if you haven't even bothered to check out the tie-in series of Flashpoint, how can you honestly say the whole thing was uninspired?"
Can you please explain to me why even bother creating the back-story and goings-on of an alternate timeline that shall never be revisited, have no impact on the new DC Universe, and in fact did not accomplish anything? The storylines presented in the main Flashpoint miniseries, primarily concerning how superhumans are viewed by the world and the ongoing war between Aquaman and Wonder Woman, ARE. NOT. RESOLVED.
Hell, the implication at the end was that somehow the battle was actually cracking the planet in half, a concept as ludicrous in this book as it was in Superman: Distant Fires.
Also, I think if you listen to it again at no point did I say that Flashpoint and it's tie-ins were "uninspired." An anonymous poster said that. What I said was that Flashpoint and its tie-ins were pointless.
"Presentation is indeed the problem. I'm not a Wildstorm reader WHATSOEVER, as such when mystery woman said that "three timelines needed to be merged together" I didn't know she was talking about Wildstorm. I figured some of the images were of DCNu, some were from the old timeline, and some were from Flashpoint, which I equally did not read from lack of interest in the universe it created.
Also, don't say "three time lines" when you only show two of the damn things, and even more so actually SAY if the time lines are merged, all that she says is that they need to be united to stop the coming threat and that Barry can help, but doesn't say HOW he can help."
So wait, it isn't like Star Trek where the old universe still exists?
"So wait, it isn't like Star Trek where the old universe still exists?"
Nope! I was apparently wrong about that. See newly-added disclaimer.
I liked House of M. That said, it should have been an X-Men only event, but Marvel's continued demands to shove X-Men into events where they don't belong and vise-versa is a whole 'nother issue.
I haven't read any of Flashpoint simply because the concept of it never interested me. I liked Rebirth, but outside of that I really didn't feel invested in getting into the main Flash comic. I've heard from people that hate it and people that like it, but thankfully I've heard enough that I feel I don't need to read it (nor do I really want to).
Everything I've heard about JL1 so far has been negative. From people saying Lee's art wasn't great to people saying it was just not a great comic. I hope the next few issues get better, but I'm going to pick this up at some point anyway. I want to read a bunch of the new #1s (I refuse to call it DCnU) and if they catch me I'll read further issues. From the way you describe the issue it would not grab me and would just make me not bother to go on further. I'm not a huge JL fan in the first place, but I'm willing to give the reboot a chance to get me on board.
Did anyone notice this:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08/31/the-justice-leagueflashpoint-crossover-everybody-missed/
I totally missed her but there another column that shows her also in the Animal Man previews.
Also i don't really know why having only some characters showing up at the first was such a bad thing, since this is the one book for new readers, then it's probably a good thing to introduce the heroes in smaller doses then having them all appear at once. That might just be me but still, i liked the book.
"This entire thing is the Flash's fault."
You know, that seems like an appropriate metaphor for the who DC mess in the real world. Near as I can tell the current generation of editors at DC have been bending over backwards to twist the universe they inherited back into what they remembered reading - ie, pre-Crisis - and that's all been hinged on bringing back Barry Allen and Hal Jordan.
Mind you, this may be a colored opinion because I think Barry and Hal are two of the most boring characters the DCU has ever created. But it seems appropriate to me.
"The main focus of the issue is on Batman and Green Lantern..."
Jiminy Christmas, not even Batman and Superman? I really hate this obsession the current creative team has with Hal Jordan. If you're going to get all obsessed over a Green Lantern, why not focus on one of them that actually has a personality?
Batman took off Hal's ring? Seriously? o.0 You can't even take off a normal person's ring that easily! Jeez, Geff. Get some logic.
Just some points I wanted to make about Flashpoint itself. I agree that as an event, and especially a CoIE level event, it is incredibly underwhelming. As a storyline on the other hand it's pretty good.
The general view that I'm seeing on forums is that Geoff Johns had intended for this to be a one off storyline, but was later made to change it for the reboot. The Atlantis/Amazon war was so mediocrely boring. Most of the tie ins were interesting, and I hope we get some more storylines set in the Flashpoint universe. Mainly Batman: Knight of Vengeance.
Some relaunch things I want to note about. I'm guessing that Geoff also pulled some strings, hence why the Lanterns seem to have been the least effected by the changes.
Barbara was 5 times better as Oracle, than as Batgirl. There is a reason why she stayed as Oracle for so long.
I'm not as peeved about Superman/Lois not being married anymore. This story is a fresh start, which means that we will likely see the relationship develop again.
"Jiminy Christmas, not even Batman and Superman? I really hate this obsession the current creative team has with Hal Jordan. If you're going to get all obsessed over a Green Lantern, why not focus on one of them that actually has a personality?"
Another person in their own review theorized that this was written with the hope that the Green Lantern movie was doing better critically and financially, thus seeing Batman and Green Lantern together in a comic would be something awesome to them.
Just a quick note, they do actually show all three timelines. on the left page DCU is the bottom Veritgo is the top left and wildstorm is top right by the fold.
still don't think the change was a good idea or even executed with any type of competence. Its odd to because Grant morrison did an excellent continuity adjustment in Animal man after Crisis on infinite earths.
Yeah ... I read Justice League #1 in Hastings while standing there talking to the manager. I thought it was good, but, like you said, it's not the best introduction to a brand new universe. If I didn't know who Green Lantern was and had no familiarity with the DC universe, I would have spent the whole time thinking, "What is going on?" Actually, I didn't know who the football player was until I watched this, so thanks for clarifying.
I actually thought there was more Batman development in Flashpoint #5's ending then there was in Justice League #1. I also got a Superboy Prime essence from Superman for some reason...
Hey Lewis, I must ask why you believe your recommended list is now moot? In terms of continuity, it is. In terms of stories, I don't really see why people have to ignore your list. They're great stories, you enjoyed reading them, shouldn't that be enough? This is almost akin to your dislike of the Ultimate Universe. It's not in continuity, but why does it necessarily have to be? Why can't you recommend these books on the basis of them having good stories?
RE: Cracking the planet in half. The Atlanteans have a weapon that sinks the Earth via channeling a kidnapped Brion Markov's power. Terra is using her powers to oppose him. This device sank half of Europe. Orm triggers it to go into Armageddon mode using the geoshaping powers to rip the Earth apart.
So yeah, not as dumb as Distant Fires.
As a Marvel reader, I've been on the fence about this whole reboot from the get-go. Far to often in recent years, comic companies have made these events larger and larger. They go for flash (no pun intended) and no substance. Events are going to happen and while some are good. Some are just, well, indescribable.
When I watched your new show, I took note of your recommendation at the end. I MIGHT check it out. Money permitting and if anything Marvel puts out this week catches my eye. Sometimes it's best to look at a new line with a skeptical outlook. Sometimes it's best to see it when it's a fresh look.
Now, I never read much DC. And judging from the look at the JL book, I can see what you're saying. For a new reader who wants to take a look at the line, it just seems off. Maybe it's the preview I got one week. Maybe it's just the fact that I've been slowly getting some DC trades and getting invested in the characters.
This new line reminds me of a lot of things Marvel has done in the past. Flashpoint seems a lot like Age of Apocalypse and this brave new world seems a lot like House of M/Heroes Reborn. I think I've said this before.
I look forward to other reviewers take on the series. Especially, LAG. I guess what I am saying is that from a Marvel fan's standpoint, this seems a LOT like something I've read in the past.
I don't want to bash the series before it comes out. I want to come at this with as open a mind as possible. I might have to look at this cautiously. Checking DC would be fun. But, part of me really wishes I was reading and checking out the older stories. Yeah, there are trades. However, there's something to be said for lasting appeal.
"Hey Lewis, I must ask why you believe your recommended list is now moot? In terms of continuity, it is. In terms of stories, I don't really see why people have to ignore your list. They're great stories, you enjoyed reading them, shouldn't that be enough? This is almost akin to your dislike of the Ultimate Universe. It's not in continuity, but why does it necessarily have to be? Why can't you recommend these books on the basis of them having good stories?"
As I said - the ongoing series part of the recommendations list is worthless, because many of them are no longer ongoing series and if they are, many have changed creative teams completely.
Mind you, it would have been outdated eventually, but I was hoping for more lead-time for that than a few months.
Lewis,
You were unfair to compare JL1 to The New Teen Titans #1, in how the whole team was together by the end of the issue. TT #1 didn't need as much setup, since many of the teammates came from other books and the how the world related to superheroes was established (going by the assumption that DC readers were buying TT)
JL has to establish every character
for hypothetical "new reader", but they have to establish how this world relates to the heroes.
Addley wrote:
Batman took off Hal's ring? Seriously? o.0 You can't even take off a normal person's ring that easily! Jeez, Geff. Get some logic.
He's the Batman. He can do shit like that.
I dig the new show's format!
I've been yawning over Flashpoint since the day it was announced. And now that it's finally over, I guess I can congratulate myself for my foresight.
As for JLA, not a terrible book, but a terrible introduction to the new universe. I think this would've gone down easier at the end of September.
I have yet to be sorry that I stopped reading comic books. It sure looks like more of the same crap that drove me away in the first place.
I will say that while I was in exactly the same boat as you in regards to "Flashpoint" (Why should we care?), I've heard nothing but good reviews of the Batman tie-in. I actually plan to check that one out.
And this only reinforces my idea to just trade-wait for Justice League. But, hey, it could have been worse. You could have been reading this week's "Amazing Spider-Man."
I had a different reaction to each. Like you're doing with the new 52, I decided I would read the entirety of Flashpoint to better help the customers who shop at my humble brick and mortar.
I liked Flashpoint. I suspect part of this is due to the fact that I identified right away that it wouldn't really sum up what the DCU was, simply get us from point A to point B and, at that, I actually dug it. For your readers who wonder, several of the side stories were, in my humble opinion, well worth the read. Batman, Project Superman, Lois Lane and the Resistance, Frankenstein, and a number of others all ranged from excellent to at least enjoyable and interesting. By reading everything, I actually did feel a tie to this alt. universe and I suspect I wasn't the only one.
As to Flashpoint #5 proper, I confess I found it very emotionally satisfying. We get four great scenes with Barry Allen; one with Reverse Flash, one with THomas Wayne, one with Barry's mother, and finally with Bruce. THe last, in particular, made me actually feel something which is incredibly rare for me when it comes to funny books. Bear in mind that this coming from someone who is relatively apathetic towards Barry Allen.
Conversely, I absolutely loathed Justice League #1. I thought Jim Lee's art was overwrought, murky, and far too busy. I found Hal Jordan to be so ridiculously unlikable as to be near parody. It felt like all bang, precious little substance. Who was the audience supposed to be. It was almost childishly simplistic in places but confusing in others. I feel like Geoff Johns was trying to satisfy readers new and veteran, young and old and, in the process, succeeded at appealing to none of the above.
If this is how we're started the DCnU, I'm uneasy at best and damned annoyed at worst. Like you, I'll probably wind up reading every issue that comes out, but I've got a sneaking suspicion I'll be grumbling most of the way.
The things I do as a pseudo comics professional. Anyway, those were my thoughts. Thanks for sharing yours.
The ring thing makes sense, actually. A lantern ring can be removed if the person removing it has stronger willpower than the wearer. See: Deathstroke in Identity Crisis:
"He systematically took out every member except for Rayner, whom he had the potential to disable through trying to usurp his ring's energies using his own formidable willpower."
"The ring thing makes sense, actually. A lantern ring can be removed if the person removing it has stronger willpower than the wearer. See: Deathstroke in Identity Crisis:
"He systematically took out every member except for Rayner, whom he had the potential to disable through trying to usurp his ring's energies using his own formidable willpower.""
Yeeeeaaah, except a lot of people (myself included) agree that that scene is complete horseflop and Deathstroke usurping his will is completely ludicrous. The Guardians of the Universe may continually prove to be short-sighted, but when they design weapons, they don't make stupid mistakes like that. The ring doesn't respond to other people not chosen to be Lanterns - only the guy who's wearing the damn thing.
Oh, a new series. Should be fun.
Intresting fact, I origonally only started reading Flashpoint because Booster Gold just happened to be the only running tie-in and since I would be reading that anyway, I figured might as well read the whole thing so I can know what's happening. Gotta love the look on my face when I learned what it was leading up to.
Anyway, I did read a few of the tie-in, partially because I was curious about how a few of my fav characters were affected, but also because the first issues came with a free pin. I have a weakness when it comes with swag. (also, I think Bart Allen might be dead, agien)
I didn't get the Justice League book because it was sold out at my shop, but glad to know I wasn't missing much.
From what you said, what worries me more is that a commen pick pocketer could steal the ring while the Lantern was walking through town listening to their iPod. I think the Gaurdians would design the thing better than that.
Also, I thought Flashpoint was fine as an elseworlds, but not as a send-off to the DCU. I hope your right about the possible back door being set up. (My interpretation was more that the DCU, Flashpoint Universe and I gess the Wildstorm Universe were merging into the DCnU. But I'm not the one with the webseries (yet), so what do I know?)
Anyway, I look forward to seeing this new series play out, especially since I'm flying blind here as well. Though I'm just getting the serieses that intrest me, so I might as well hear what else is out there in case my method doesn't work.
"The Guardians of the Universe may continually prove to be short-sighted, but when they design weapons, they don't make stupid mistakes like that."
Yellow impurity (before Morrison retcon'd it), Manhunters
I can't believe that they missed the point so completely with this reboot. The "decompressed" storytelling only works with existing fans of comic books, as an introduction to a new reader this was horrifically bad.
When I was reading it, I thought the Vic scenes were an ad or something. what is a new reader supposed to think? We only knew what Johns was doing by virtue of knowledge we had of the OLD universe. A new reader should be utterly confused as to why the scene switched to some random high school football kid with daddy issues. And why should they care?
DC completely missed the target on this, hoping Lee's pretty are could save things. But new fans don't know Lee so his name and art on the cover have no meaning to them.
I just read Flashpoint #3-5 today, followed by JL #1. I agree with your thoughts on Flashpoint. It's not an event so much as a Flash storyline. I did really like Thomas Wayne's reactions to Barry though. The part at the end with Barry delivering Thomas' letter to Bruce was very sweet.
As far as JL #1 goes, I thought they could have put more in there, but it kind of works the way it is. Bringing in the character's gradually, Hal's reaction "Batman? You're real?", was pretty funny. And I liked Hal's personality here, he's still a fighter-jock.
As far as Batman taking his ring off is concerned, pretty weird for the ring to let him, but physically - as GL is wearing a ring on his gloved hand, it would be easier to remove than if it were on bare skin. Maybe the ring wanted to teach Hal a lesson?? =D
The only real problem I see with this story is the timing of getting everyone together. If Vic hasn't had his accident while the others are establishing themselves, wouldn't the operations/rehabilitation/training take quite a while? Not to mention his mentally coming to terms with his changes, at least enough to be able to function in a group.
We'll see how they reconcile everything, but this is one I'll most likely keep reading.
I don't know if I'll purchase ALL the #1's coming out (finances permitting ...maybe). But it will be cool to see how our opinions of them match/differ Lewis. Neat new series!
Linkara Said:
"The Guardians of the Universe may continually prove to be short-sighted, but when they design weapons, they don't make stupid mistakes like that. The ring doesn't respond to other people not chosen to be Lanterns - only the guy who's wearing the damn thing."
Depends on which stories you are looking at and who was writing them.
To give one prominent example, Emerald Twilight. Hal Jordan is able to keep his ring despite The Guardians firing him and is able to take the rings from other Lanterns after rendering them unconscious or - on one case - cutting their ring-hand off.
Not too long after that, Kyle Rayner had his ring stolen off of his hand while he slept by a depowered Green Lantern, who discovered that the ring wouldn't work for her... even though she expected it to.
It was revealed later that Ganthet had coded Kyle's particular ring so that it was bonded to his DNA signature. Presumably this feature was added into the new rings when The Corps was revived...
Point is, there are plenty of stories in continuity where it was possible for a person to steal a Green Lantern ring. Though Batman pick-pocketing it off of Hal's hand does seem a bit far-fetched....
*sees the coments saying it was DC, Wildstorm and Vertigo*
Wait, I thought the DCU and Vertigo Universe where the same thing, or at least Vertigo was a small cornor of the DCU. If not, what was with Swamp-Thing and John Constantine appearing in the end of Brightest Day? And how bout Death appearing in Action Comics? Wasn't that supposed to signel the retrn of Vertigo or something? I mean I read it, and I saw Death from Sandman and Lex Luthor talking. It even explained what she was doing during the Blackest Night event. How are those not already the same universe?
We're of a like mind on most of this, Linkara. I skipped most of Flashpoint (I got the Green Lantenrn issues, just cause) and only picked up the last issue because I wanted to see how it ended.
Personally, I'm glad to see Barry Allen was almost responsible for destroying the universe. Because - as I've noted before - Barry Allen is kind of a dick, so even though nothing really happened, I don't consider the money wasted for the laugh I got from the bit where Barry realizes he just failed Time Travel 101.
As for Justice League, I agree that I was disappointed that we didn't get all the characters on the cover but I've come to agree with the assessment of a colleague who pointed out that trying to cram the origins of seven heroes AND how they established a team into one book would be ludicrously overwhelming for the new readers DC Comics is trying to attract.
And I can see the wisdom of Johns focusing upon Green Lantern and Batman for most of the issue because (the Green Lantern movie tanking aside), they are probably the two DC Heroes the general public is most knowledgeable about right now. Plus, Johns has written both characters enough that he can play them off one another expertly.
What's funny is, I have overall enjoyed Flashpoint. I thought the individual issues were pretty good and I enjoyed many of the miniseries, especially Batman: Knight of Vengeance, Project Superman, and the Aquaman stuff. I actually thought the whole 5 issue thing was great, because I didn't think this had to be that long.
Having said that, Flashpoint #5 was pretty disappointing. Nothing was really resolved on that world and a lot of the mini-series issue 3's specifically said "Continued in Flashpoint #5" and literally nothing was continued. Nothing. I actually liked the world of Flashpoint and thought it was really interesting, and I knew all too well it wouldn't last, but the series really could've used another issue to resolve everything that they had built up in the mini-series. Granted, issue 5 had some nice moments, but it was overall a let down. I've enjoyed it a whole lot more than Fear Itself though.
As for Justice League, I enjoyed it. It was an enjoyable comic for what it was, but we'll see how it pans out. Johns takes a bit to get going, but I usually enjoy his stuff when he does.
Also, I really enjoy this series thus far. I hope it continues.
Flashpoint was boring yet the scene at the End of #5 with Bruce was to me touching.
JL#1 was.. odd but the use of Batman and GL because of the films makes some sense I guess but maybe the future issues will be better.
I really don't like reboots. It seems like the lazy person's way out, rather than acknowledging and working with past history while trying to move forward, but this relaunch is infuriating.
For one, I would like to point out a simple example of a huge change: Superman's marriage. Superman is the shining pinnacle all superheroes look to. He has it all: power, friends, a career, and a family--and he has shown that not only does he deserve it, but he worked hard to get that which he was not born with. Superman's story was not over. The marriage was a step along the way to show Superman living the idealized dream: to raise a family of your own who will follow your example towards doing good in the world.
Superman had yet to take that step of having kids. Sure, he sort-of helped raise Supergirl and Superboy, but the clincher could come with kids of his own. His story could then take on more levels, as now he would need to balance an increasingly present home life while still going off to save the world.
In this sense, the DC Universe proper should only have been rebooted after the last possible storyline for the major characters: passing the torch. Imagine Superman giving his mantle to Superboy or one of the kids mentioned earlier, Batman retiring for good and letting a Robin permanently replace him, and Wonder Woman giving her title to Donna Troy.
In such a way, they could have crafted a miniseries to this extent, which took place over years and showed the final battles of the aging heroes before they passed on the mantles, confident that the world is in good hands (I admit I'm inspired a bit by the webcomic Point Guardian for this mentality of an ending). You could fade from this series and to a new focus, but leave open the prospect of returning to the old universe. It would close with optimism for the old characters and a sense of closure, and the reboot would be a way of seeing how the same characters of old work in a completely new history.
A minor element I dislike is how the Doom Patrol seems to be gone. Of course they'll return, but the writers will likely throw out much of the old continuity--and that means my favorite run (Rachel Pollack's Vertigo issues) are the most likely to fade into the aether. It's annoying enough that Coagula was killed off after Pollack's run, but that she didn't even exist? I'm not happy. Not seething with anger, but annoyed.
However, I can't wait to see them bring in more Ambush Bug issues, where he is perfectly aware of the old timeline. That's the only way to bring him back, and they'd better bring him back. Possibly even an issue where he picks a fight with the Flash for doing this?
Also, the problem I see with Justice League #1: it's not the fact that it's in the past, but that it focuses on so little. Linkara mentioned it in comparison with the New Teen Titans issue: you need to show the whole team get together. The thing is, new readers tend to pick up a number 1 to read a full story to whet their appetite for the series as a whole. Justice League #1 shows so many characters on the cover, but people would likely be flipping through the issue going, "Where's Wonder Woman and Aquaman? Where's the Flash? Who's that robot guy on the cover?" Quite frankly, the book advertises a team on the first issue and doesn't deliver. We read Justice League to see the characters we love band together to fight great threats, and if it wasn't for one page, we wouldn't even have the most famous of them appear in the issue. People are likely to feel that the issue was too little story for their money and not pick up the next issue.
Gosh darn it, I want to get my superhero comics off the ground so I can tell stories the way I want them to be told (why did I have to be the only person in my family who can't draw?).
I haven't read JL 1 yet (and don't plan to). The thing is, I've only been reading comics regularly for a little under two years. So the relaunch isn' as big a deal to me as others (though I still think it's dumb). Really, I'm glad to be getting a new JLI and Blue Beetle out of it, but I would definitely not mind if this turns out to be an alternate timeline, and the old one is intact. Anyway, another show? Awesome! Where do you find the time to do this?
I don't see what the problem is with him not reading the tie-ins. The tie-ins are there to EXPAND on what's presented in the main series, not outright have the story shift there. I like the way that Crisis on Infinite Earths did it, where you knew other stuff was happening, but that stuff had more to do with the characters themselves than the crisis at hand, so you didn't feel as if you needed to read them.
Have you seen the Joke #DCnUspoilers over on Twitter? I'm sure someone has to have sent you a link at some point.
Can't say i've been up to date on DC, only been following wikipedia for when i want to feel up to date.
will you be looking for recommendations for this as well? Or are you going to do this just solo? I ask because knowing about the 52 issues is a heavy change and a lot of work.
I just had a realization of how they plan to use JL #1 to bring in new readers, and that's the last page. They advertised a fight between Batman, and Superman in the next issue. Realistically, Batman shouldn't stand a chance, but that's a whole other debate that I don't really want to get into.
Also, a couple of quick questions for you Linkara. Did you pick up the normal comic, or the combo pack that includes a code for the digital copy? What are your thoughts on the combo pack? I picked up the combo myself, and probably intend to use that as my main way of buying the comics, though the dollar extra cost is probably going to add up quickly.
I still can't believe Rob Liefeld's Supreme decided to dress up as Superman and invade the new DCU universe.
Seriously, as soon as he shows up he punches Hal halfway across town and challenges Batman to a fight. Why?
I personally think the book was pretty bad. Awkward dialog and just a lot of characters being jerkasses... I know Hal is a bit of a cocky guy, but he was reaching JLI Guy Gardner levels of jerkassery here... And then Batman not only takes that crap (since when does Batman take crap??) but also acts like a jerk. And then Superman... as I've mentionned, shows up punching other heroes for no reason.
Geoff Johns IS aware characters can interact with one another without being massive pricks to one another, right? Right?
is amazing how everyone seem to have the same opinion on this
i have read lot of reviews on JL#1 on a lot of sites(newsarama, ign, comicvine, cbr, bleedingcool) on ALL of them share the same consensus
yes it was a good comic but did not live by the hype, not the most proper way to launch the New Universe, and yes is as slow as a glacier
this should have been oversize(even more), it had to shown atleast one panel with Aquaman, WW and Barry
About Flashpoint, that spread was WEIRD
the ¨3 timelines¨ represent DC, Vertigo and Wildstorm(yes i know someone already said it, im making a point)
BUT those were never ¨timelines¨
just that word doesnt have any sense in context
i can understand why someone would confuse the 3 timelines for (Flashpoint, DC and DCNu)
Wildstorm was never on any incarnation a version of DC
it started on Image
Vertigo started on DC but is also not a timeline
the only thing that i can conceive as an story related excuse is that on the DCU some event like CoIE or Zero Hour, or any other suspect created Vertigo and later Wildstorm and this mystery red woman is the new Monitor preventing a disaster and in order to save reality is going to need reunite them and is using this as a method
the not story related excuse is this:
DC + Vertigo + Wildstorm = New DC
cause thats the aim of the editorial for the new world order
but Honestly is really not that far off from CoIE which end up reuniting E2 E4 E5 ES EX
but it wasnt well explained and Flashpoint is coming more as an excuse than an actual result of the story
and the reason why Batman took the ring of hal is very simple really
is cause it was batman
and batman is awesome
so he can do stuff like that =)
now a real reason
and really, simply enough
Hal drop his guard and Batman was sneaky as hell
thats it
Hal just thought, well he is just one crazy guy dressed like a bat, he was confident, didnt had his shield active(he can still glow without his shield on) and without him even noticing Bruce took it from him
if you read this lewis, i appreciate your time for doing so and thank you for your great reviews and im looking forward for the 52 reviews
Oh, great. Now you've let your snobbishness fall right out. Not only did you admit that you didn't read anything Flash since Barry came back (and freely admitted that you wished Barry was still dead), not only did you admit you half assed the reading of Flashpoint (yeah, not everthing got resolved. That's because if they were followed to their logical conclusion, Geoforce's powers would have lead to the deaths of almost everyone on the planet since he was the one being forced to use his earthquake powers into breaking the planet in half if you actually read the fucking tie-ins), not only have you said that you unabashedly admitted that you barely see anything worthwhile in the DCnU (which seems that it's in largely, but not completely, because your little recommendations list was "rendered obsolete"), not only did you fail to realize that when DC said that Justice League was the intro the new DCU (when people say "book", they mean title. When somebody says "There's a new book on my pull-list" they don't literally mean ONE issue) and that the whole first arc is supposed to be the intro, YOU completely missed the joke when Batman steals Green Lantern's ring. The joke is because of Batman SHOULDN'T have normally been able to do it, but he can BECAUSE HE'S FREAKING BATMAN!
Jesus, it doesn't matter if they did do a "proper sendoff to the old DCU". No matter what, you would have just said "COIE did it better."
Gotta disagree with you. Enjoyed Flashpoint, and while J.L. 1 would have benefited with an 80 page issue 1, I'm still interested in what's up next.
I don't think my LCS HAS the combo packs. ^^; I probably would have gotten one, though.
"not only did you admit you half assed the reading of Flashpoint (yeah, not everthing got resolved. That's because if they were followed to their logical conclusion, Geoforce's powers would have lead to the deaths of almost everyone on the planet since he was the one being forced to use his earthquake powers into breaking the planet in half if you actually read the fucking tie-ins),"
Sooooo, let me get this straight - I "half-assed" the reading of Flashpoint because I did not read, as you freely admitted, the TIE-INS. You do understand what a tie-in book is, yes? I'm not SUPPOSED to have to read a tie-in book in order to get what's going on. A tie-in book is supposed to be supplementary material, something EXTRA to the main narrative. Flashpoint the miniseries is supposed to be the required reading - NOT the tie-ins. Or perhaps you would say that Amazons Attack is a good book because its tie-ins are required reading, as well?
Hey Linkara good stuff as always but a question to you and the masses reading this: Do you think the whole Where's Waldo of the Mysterious Hooded Lady in JL #1 means this entire thing may be leading up to another crazy event?
Because we have the Flash at some point in time remembering things as well as the Lady popping up. Now to mention whatever the Flash had to give up. Kinda reminds me of some pre-crisis Monitor appearances.
Also I am totally going to call the lady as Donna Troy, because why the hell not? And the thing the Flash had to give up was probably HIS MARRIAGE!
"Seriously, as soon as he shows up he punches Hal halfway across town and challenges Batman to a fight. Why?"
As this is the first real interaction between superheroes in this universe, they'd obviously be wary of one another - especially when moments before they were talking about busting in to restrain him for questioning. Superman was just making sure they didn't get the jump on him.
I also wanted to say something about people making a big deal about Batman taking Hal's ring: I saw nothing special in it, because I've seen it before.
Specifically, I saw it in Aztek. There, Kyle Rayner attacks Aztek over the usual misunderstanding and Aztek, understnding this trope, quickly defuses the situation. He very quickly swipes Kyle's ring and gives it back in the good faith gesture that he is not the bad guy.
Aztek is not even half as awesome as Batman and was able to swipe a Lantern ring, so I say Batman could do it in his sleep. Yes, Aztek was the old continuity, but I would think my point still stands.
I agree totally with your thoughts. Still I feel so upset with this reboot... Anyway, thanks for this new section. It's simply great. Congratulations!
I kind of think that Flashpoint not ending with a huge crisis sized battle makes sense for the theme of the book. With time travel, the tiniest thing can screw with everything. Though I wasn't a huge fan of the series. I really felt the way they opened up most of the world was lame, with Deathstroke, Steve Trevor, I didn't really care about that stuff. And the I didn't like the cosmic entitiy.
As far as JL goes, I pretty much agree with you, but with the ring, maybe it's because he's still new to it. I don't know, I'm confused/excited.
Good morning, Linkara.
Just here to express my approval of this new series of yours.
Good review!
Just one nitpick: is it really 24 pages? I thought I heard that DC was dropping the page count to 22 pages. Not that that excuses the slow plodding....
Having just read JLA #1 as a starting point comic, my opinion can be boiled down to just: "eh". Not much happened. This was supposed to pull in new readers? Give them very little and then tell them to wait until mid-October for the next nugget? And all I see them toting is a "Superman v. Batman" fight. This isn't Dragonball Z. I wanted to get wrapped up in a story.
Also, the "five years ago" caption confused me. For a starting off point, five years before what? It's not like we jumped forward to later anywhere. Wouldn't it just make sense to show the early stuff and if needed in a later issue say "five years later". Or are they saying the scene takes place in 2006, and if so, why not clearly date it?
This isn't boding well. I hope some of the other #1s start off better than this.
Still, Linkara, I appreciate hearing your take on the new material. I've enjoyed hearing your analysis of older comics, and hearing it applied to new releases is very welcome.
"That's all I'm saying"
And you said it well, Linkara!
"Oh and as a final note Batman taking the ring off of GL's finger made sense to me. He was underestimating
Batman for not having any powers and was being super arrogant. The purpose of the scene was basically to tell the readers who may be new to the characters to not underestimate Batman just because he doesnt have flight or super strength."
While I agree the point was one that needed to be made, doing it in a way that makes one of the other main characters in the series look like bad is not the right way to do it, especially if it creates a series of logical issues. Even if we were to accept that the Green Lantern's powers have been substantially altered for this new universe, just being able to remove his ring makes little sense.
That aside, this is the first introduction to these characters within their new continuity. One of the goals should be to build up all of the characters as being effective in their own rights, and the way that was presented makes the Green Lantern look unnecessarily foolish. If they wanted to make Batman look good, there are a myriad of other ways it could have been done.
I'm reminded of Archie Sonic's own "reboot" in your description of the DC one; It's underwhelming an dfrom the synopsis I've bee reading, it won't make a damn bit of difference later on, so it feels like a cop-out. It doesn't really appeal to me when these things do "reboots" in order to fix their damn continuity errors and bed writing, especially when it's only temporary and there's not going to be much done with it later on.
Hey Lewis,
If you want a good tie-in for Flashpoint, read Batman: Knight of Vengeance or Frankenstein. Those are the best ones.
And frankly, Justice League reads like an issue of Brave and the Bold. Who knows if the others will sell well. Obviously, this first issue will get some paper in, but who knows. Either DC sales will either rise, fall, or just stay the same as they were before the crisis.
All I know is I am just going to be buying tradepaperbacks and keeping up to date on Thunderbolts over at Marvel.
I kind of sped through the comments and but I am pretty sure this is something no one has said before. Justice League is supposed to be taking place in the past of this new universe compared to the rest of the 52 titles, which would explain why Barry and Bruce don't know each other yet in JL and seem to be good friends at the end of Flashpoint. While I did like this first comic I didn't think it was the right choice for the first one out given that it is supposed to take place at a different time as the rest of the universe.
Actually the reason the characters know each other in Flashpoint, but not in Justice League, is that Justice League takes place 5 years in the past while at the end of Flashpoint Barry returns to the new U in the present already with his memories adapted to the new continuity.
btw Linkara for your reviews on the 52 are you going to use a grading system?
like 5/5, A, B, 2-3 stars, etc
or is it going to be just: recommended - not recommended
Eh, I think a lot of people don't remember how it was to start out comics. I know I'm younger than most when it comes to readership (I started at the beginning of Infinite Crisis for DC, and Civil War for Marvel. Wonderful times, right? o.0) and I think JL #1 did a fine job of doing an introduction to familiar characters in an unfamiliar setting.
When I started out, I was a bit overwhelmed. I did a lot of wiki-fu and back-issue searching to catch up to everything going on. Still, I held in there. Then someone showed me Ultimate Marvel, and I was like "Hey, something I can read from the start and see a nice progression instead of hectic, continuity-bound crossovers!"
For me, I think two of the three series worked for me. I really liked the slow start to both Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-Man, but Ultimate X-Men came off making me feel like I missed something. The first two series started pretty slow in the first couple issues, while X-Men jumped in really quickly. I think that most new readers want something a bit slower, easing them in rather than sort of socking them in the face with everything.
Yes, there was action in Ultimates #1, but it was largely an origin story centered around one person. This origin story could have been placed anywhere, but it was placed at the beginning because while it has a lot of action, there really isn't that much that happens outside of a comic-reproduction of Saving Private Ryan with Captain America. Ultimates #2 picks things up more, but that's after we've been introduced to what type of universe this is, and I think JL will be the same way. It takes time to get used to the stuff comics can throw at you, and when you've been inured to it you might forget that others aren't. :-)
I also think that Green Lantern and Batman were chosen more for their interaction than movie tie-ins. Johns wants to show more of an adversarial component than we've ever seen, and I think the quickest way to do that is to take the two members who still have a bit of an adversarial relationship today.
As for Superman's portrayal... I think that we are seeing a more brash, "take action" sort of interpretation from what I've heard. With everything that I've seen from solicits concerning his start, I think he might be a bit mistrustful of anyone who looks at "restraining" him. But hey, maybe it's explained more in the next issue. I doubt we are actually going to see a "Superman vs. Batman" fight... unless it's Batman convincing Superman that both of them are on the up and up.
Or maybe I'm just off-base here. Anyways, I look forwards to your series, whether I agree or disagree! :-D
While I did like Flashpoint I agree that it wasn't really that great, in fact I liked the tie-ins a lot more than the main Flashpoint series.
The only tie-in I didn't like was Legion of Doom, first issue wasn't so sure about, second issue I really didn't like (I think the point where Heatwave bit off Animal Man's nose sealed the deal there) so I didn't get the third issue.
Only downside about the tie-ins I think was that for some of them the last issus ended with TO BE CONTINUED IN FLASHPOINT #5, and to be honest...that didn't happen beyond the characters from the tie-ins showing up for the big fight at the end which really resulted in nothing save for the big reveal about how history got changed and Reverse Flash being killed.
As for Justice League, I thought it was okay just not a particularly impressive start but hopefully the rest of this story arc will make up for that.
So which is next?
Wow this is just getting more depressing as it goes on! So this is like an Ultimate Univers version of DC?
I guess Batman could remove the ring because he's metally stronger than Hal but that wasn't stated.
so how old are these characters now?
Well, while I agree with your Justice League review, I have to say, I'm curious on how your opinion of that Star Trek trade will turn out.
It's from an odd little slice of time where DC wrote comics in-between the movies to try and explain what the crew was doing in the meantime - as if the time between the movies was literal real time between events in the universe.
Which is hilarious, when you realize they dragged Spock out of his "hazy" pretty quickly (in fact, that trade happens right after the events of 3, according to DC) and then had to cook up ANOTHER reason why Spock got "hazy" again for Star Trek 4.
It also resulted in an awesome bit where the "modern" crew in command of the Excelsior met up with the "classic" crew from the original Enterprise in a 25th anniversary issue, which is a damned good one and I'd love to see you check out as well.
But . . . but Jim Lee is a terrible artist!
Naturally, he's the guy who designed all of the ugly costumes in the New 52.
Yeah, JL #1 was meh at best. One more week for Gale Simone's Batgirl to hit stands, it's the only comic I'm looking forward to the most.
Thanks for doing this. I'm quite interested to hear what your impressions of the New DCU are.
In general, I didn't think Justice League was bad, but I didn't think it was very interesting, either. It is unfortunate that DC is making a big deal out of the reboot, but they aren't trying to do anything particularly new with the opportunity. It feels like a missed opportunity to use Batman and Superman (and Hal, apparently) as the cornerstones of the new League instead of focusing on Wonderwoman, Cyborg or someone else who is often underplayed but has strong leadership abilities playing the lead in this series.
I totally agree that Batman just slipping off the Power Ring while Hal is awake and aware seemed really off. I can understand being able to do that sort of thing when they are unconscious, but not really just because they were not fully focused. Also, is it just me, or does it seem to be jumping the gun a little bit to go straight to a Darkseid storyline for this? I do have hopes of seeing Darkseid just sitting around on someone's couch in the near future.
While this is coming from somebody who's not read the book in question. My best guess for how Batman could've pulled the ring off is that well... He's Batman, when he tuched the ring it juged him to be worthy and without any harmful intent ment for Hal. I'll put it as a big oversight in a desize standpoint. But not the biggest one. Possablely this is ment to be a helpful safely break form having a well that whole Hal go crazy and get other rings type of deal. I hope...
Again I note this is coming from both a non-comic book reader and someone who's not read teh comic in question. I just like coming up with silly anwers that makes sence in my head to these types of questions.
"But . . . but Jim Lee is a terrible artist!
Naturally, he's the guy who designed all of the ugly costumes in the New 52."
I miss Superman's Red underwear... =(
And how is he supposed to hide that high collar, and those pointed gauntlets when he's Clark Kent?
TBH, I liked the issue. I have enough knowledge to not get lost with the characters, and the ring scene, while not being terribly sense-making, gave m a chuckle, especially remembering all the fanboys who cried when Hal downed Bats with a sucker punch in GL:Rebirth... It's revenge for that XD
I was surprised you didn't mention how Johns stole the whole Green Lantern/Batman characterization and Batman stealing his ring from ASBAR. Its weird that Jim lee penciled both books too
Louis, you are the last hope for real quality in comics today. Your new move to reviewing current comics as they come out is exactly the right choice.
I for one will consider buying the books you recommend, and definitely leave the ones you don't on the stand. If enough people do this, DC will need to stop relying on gimmicks like "new #1 issues, all you speculators who aren't old enough to remember the nineties" and actually... I dunno... write some good stories maybe.
I've been hearing about how underwhelming Justice League #1 was and I'm happy I didn't buy into the hype. I'm just looking forward to Red Hood and the Outlaws and Deathstroke, I have to say I'm relieved that THOSE haven't been overhyped by DC Comics, and from what I've seen in previews, the arwork looks good too. Just trying not to get my expectations up too high though, don't want to be underwhelmed.
First off, I dig the new series and look forward to more episodes.
Second, I liked JL #1 although I agree with it seeming like he was writing for a tpb. Unfortunately it seems like sop @ major publishers.
Third, of course he can take off Hal's ring he's the G*damn Batman!
Thanks again
PS Will you be doing X-men Schism and its fallout?
PPS "The Dark" line has been getting promising early reviews.
Since my country is vastly void of anything... well, good comic related really, I'm glad that you decided to do this. Immensely happy.
Now, about that batman line about not concentrating. He's Batman, it's probably an excuse. xD Buuuuuuuuut, since we don't know anything about this new batman, we can pretty much say that we have no idea if it was meant or indeed an excuse :/
Follow up post:
Upon further reflection $3.99 for 22 pages was a bit steep.
My feelings on the reboot can be summed up in the immortal words of Luke Skywalker:
"I've got a bad feeling about this."
Thoom said:
"Addley wrote:
Batman took off Hal's ring? Seriously? o.0 You can't even take off a normal person's ring that easily! Jeez, Geff. Get some logic.
He's the Batman. He can do shit like that."
I call bullshit. That's too good even for Batman. It is extremely hard to slip a ring off a persons finger under normal circumstances much less when the ring is a weapon and the source or all your power. Are we really saying that Batman is so awesome he can do anything even if it doesn't make sense? In order to pull that stunt off, he'd more than likely break Hal's hand to do it, especially since he's Batman. I'd like to see him try that shit to Thanos with the Infinite Gauntlet. Batman or not he'd be obliterated into atoms faster than you can say, "As long as one man stands against you..."
So, I read Flashpoint #5 and Justice League #1 in the comic book store yesterday...
Honestly? I didn't think they were bad. Sure, JL#1 was a little underwhelming, but that's after a ridiculous amount of hype was placed on it by both DC and the readers.
It's just a setup issue to a larger arc. For a new reader, it would be fine and they would be keen on the next issue. For an older reader, it's an origin story.
What did anyone expect? A complex mystery layered with themes on the level of Watchmen?
However, I will say JL#1 shouldn't have been the first issue to come out, nor the flagship title of the new 52.
That looks like it belongs to Grant Morrison's Action Comics. If it's anywhere as good as All Star Superman, then that title is almost entirely worth this relaunch itself, no matter what problems I have with Babs becoming Batgirl again or Dick and Damian being seperated after they were such a great team.
The only parts of Flashpoint I was interested in was Frankenstein, and Batman. Outside of that I did not care about this event. It just seemed boring, and over blown.
In terms of the new DCU there are some titles I'm interested in.
Suicide Squad- I've always been interested with this series as a whole, and it only got bigger upon picking up Raise the Flag, and Trial by Fire. Sure the designs for the characters look horrible, but I'll try to look past that.
Animal Man- I loved the Grant Morrison book, and if I'm correct the plot deals with the interesting idea of one of Buddy's kids gaining new super powers, and it deals with him trying to help him/her(I don't remember which of his kids will get the powers).
Mr. Terrific- I love the JSA, and Mr. Terrific in particular. One thing that keeps me warry is the idea of the JSA not existing in this universe any more, and that it is being written by the guy who wrote the Titans series where Deathstroke was the leader.
Bat Woman- mainly because of how I am interested with the character(which is thanks to you recommending 52)
Birds of Prey- while Gail Simone may not be writting it I will give this a shot. Poison Ivy joining the team is something interesting to me.
Fury of Firestorm- Gail Simone. Nuff said.
Frankenstein- mainly through getting interested in Flashpoint(which for Frankenstein was a good tie in because you really didn't need to know about what was going on in universe)
Justice League Dark- admitting to mainly liking it due to the concept.
There is only one explanation as to why batman was able to remove Hal's ring , could it be he is actually.....Chuck Norris?!
As a reviewer, isn't it more important to focus on the technical quality of the comic as opposed to the "politics" surrounding it? Especially when the politics are just about where it fits or doesn't fit in a fictional timeline?
Huh. Seem a little angrier there than I expected.
Anyway, yeah, everyone already pointed out the "five years ago" thing, and someone already suggested that Johns was simply trying to say "look at batman! Batman is a badass, he took a ring off a Green Lantern!"
That said, however, they DID actually show three "timelines," or more accurately three of DCs watermarks in those images.
DCU
Wildstorm
and Vertigo.
I think that was the implication they were going with. That they merged all three of those to make one universe. It's oblique, but it's there.
I like this new series.
You don't have to worry about the Continuity alarm for these because you are covering a whole lot of comics really fast.
So that way you could rant about those now if you wanted to. I'd actually like to see you explain Onslaught, or other hard to understand characters.
One of my friends is more interested and excited for this new DCU than I am. I just don't understand why he likes it. He says it's fixing s lot of things, but I personally don't see why throwing out your whole history is required to do ANY of that.
I don't like this whole "Superheroes are recent! Everything is only about ten to five years old" stuff. It's just so annoying.
I don't understand WHY any of this had to happen. Was the old DCU that convoluted that they needed to compress or delete years of continuity? They just had their 70 year anniversary and now they're saying it was all just fodder to be rid of? It's likle they don't respect their own history.
I just can't get into it like everyone is trying to tell me I should. Like you said once, it all feels like they're just retreading old ground. Backtracking if you were to play through the level AGAIN. I wanna see new stuff, not watch a revamped reboot to MODERNISE everything.
What's worse is Teen Titans was actually starting to pick up steam again, but then they just had to up an decide on this massive re-launch. I wouldn't feel so bad if it was like the Ultimate Universe, if it was essentially "The world you loved still exists, but here's another to follow."
But like you said in the other comments, that isn't happening.
I just give up man, I can't handle the damn status quo changing constantly cause the company thinks THAT is what will attract new readers. Continuity doesn't scare me. I can find out what I want to know by just asking people, by researching it. Maybe the problem is you just don't tell good enough stories DC? Ever think of that? Cause Krul's latest Titan stuff were some real good stories. Do that! Don't try and throw everything away cause it's too much to handle.
I'm sorry if this is getting long, it's just because I can't talk to my friend about it since he's so damn stubborn and I gave up trying to explain my side of things.
I still think this is a shitty idea, even if the New 52 doesn't sound horrible it still feels like they're killing a bunch of good things just so they can FIX a few things that are apparently broken. And even if they are broken I don't see why a reboot of the whole damn universe is somehow needed to fix them.
Linkara... No spaceballs reference? I'm sorely disappointed. :c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=larzCyTk59I
OT: Happy to see new content here, I'll definitely be following this. :D
Pretty much took the words out of my mouth about JLA 1 Linkara, I do think its probably going to be great series, but holy shit this was a terrible foot to put forward so to speak. especially if they can get all of the hypothetically new readers that they think will care because of some reason to try it for 4 bucks.
Will just say I agreed with most of your take on Flashpoint. I didn't read most of it (skimmed if anything else.) If it doesn't grab me in the first couple of issues, and its not an ongoing, why really bother. I did read five to try and figure out where the story would ultimately diverge and how they would be hitting the mix button on the DCnU smoothie.
What ultimately irritates me about Flashpoint is that this was decision made about two or three months ago. Writers had to tie up their storylines quickly, other attempts to make characters relevant again (needed or not) were dropped, and some staff were given thier dream jobs. Was it Morrison or Millar who wanted to get their hands on an unencumbered (read: unmarried) Superman?
It just seems such a snap decision that its just another way Flashpoint can't add up to COIP. Groundwork was laid for a while for that one... And it just pisses me off that the reason for such a massive change to the universe boils down to an "Oooops. My bad," moment for the Flash.
I'm washing my hands of it though. Green Lantern continues and its really the only DC story was really following anyway.
I'm honestly wondering though if DC will really backtrack if the reboot doesn't work? Like Louis said, they are the only game in town for most of these characters... If the fan backlash is big enough, I will bet that the "Earth One" titles get re-branded and "Old DC" becomes Ultimate DC.
I call bulls*** on batman taking of hal's ring, why? cause according to a solicitation for New Guardians #2 for the DCnU, there is something able to rip off lantern rings from their wielders and the process to do so kills the lanterns.
That implies that someone can't just take a ring off a lantern, no amount of trying to forcibly remove a ring is possible. And before anyways says anything about it, a guardian is able to override a ring's connection to a lantern and remove it, but they don't necessarily do that either to remove a ring safely from a lantern. Granted all that were the ways it was in the New Earth, and as far as I know...that's how it was for the original timeline pre-crisis on infinite earths too.
However, it does raise a serious question as to how it's possible to remove a lantern ring with no problems...then cut to 5 years later and suddenly find it's something you can't do with out killing the lantern.
They aren't going to incorporate EVERY Vertigo title. It's a set of disparate titles with little or no inter-connection. However, if they are planning to incorporate a bit more of Vertigo into the DCnU, I'd identify three titles they'd likely incorporate:
Air (weird superhero-esque concept that'll be the most active initially), Fables (mostly for "Catch the Cameo" fun until they end the series, (which, currently, has the largest issue count of any series that debuted on Vertigo at about...170 issues once spin-offs are factored in) and The Unwritten (again, "Catch the Cameo" fun until it ends).
My take on this is nothing is gone forever, especially at DC. Clearly this mystery woman is a backdoor to return to the status quo should the public reject "ultimate DC" and want the regular DC universe back.
Hell even if the new DC universe stands for whatever reason they will run out of fresh ideas down the line and revisit the well again and put the DC universe back in a state of disarray.
I mean, this all started in the Flash when they just HAD to incorporate the original Jay Garrick Flash into the silver age universe, setting up the multiverse. Then the stage was set for universe hopping fun in the other comics, till they had to go all Crisis on infinate earths on them to fix the mess, but they couldnt even leave well enough alone after that.
I mean, why not put an embargo on the universe hopping if it causes so much trouble? Surely you can make a good story without going to earth 45 once a year. In any case whats the problem with having multiple universes? Marvel has done it for decades now and they seem to have it under wraps, and even had some success with their Ultimate line. People who want a fresh take read the ultimate universe, but the people that like the original universe still have that. Its a smart move to keep the two universes seperate and non interacting.
I think these comic companies would rather work like their animated series. There usually isnt resistance to a new animated series after one has run its course. I mean for example, people watched the 90's spiderman series, the spectacular spider spider man, and look forward to ultimate spider man, but no one really protests that they arrent in continutity with each other, or any of the comics. They are each free to tell the spider man story their own way, and stand on their own merits. Naturally they draw heavily from the comics, but can modernize any of the stories as they see fit. Theres a lot of resistance to running a comic like that though.
Give this time to play out, but dont let them off the hook. They can and will bring back the good old days if they need to.
To me, there seemed to be a dangerous little bit of the Frank Miller Batman seeping in...
"I can pull off Green Lantern's ring, cause I'm Batman and he's an idiot!"
"I know all about Superman, he's dangeros [and an idiot]"
"You're not subtle Green Lantern! You're an idiot!"
"The world needs to fear us!"
yes these aren't actual quotes but it's the impression I got with Batman's knowing smirks and what he actually did say.
I know that historically Green Lantern and Batman have never got along (except when the Batman in question is Dick)... but it just seemed to ham handed that this is the intro we got.
I'm going to finally be starting my own comic review vlog off with weekly pull reviews next Wednesday (I decided to throw JL #1 in with next weeks pulls since there didn't seem to be much point doing it on it's own).
I'll be really intersted to see how where we agree and differ.
I'm kind of getting excited for this series, I love that it's taking time to establish the characters will giving us a hint of the threat (Darkseid, something that Smallville fans will recognize thanks to the series finale and is a good first threat for the JL in place of Starro). Three characters, plus rampaging Parademon was enough for issue 1 I think.
Loved the video but skipped the Flashpoint part... I have all the comics but am going to go through them at my leisure next week... now that it's complete.
The problem I have is that I'm far more interested in what was going on with that Mother Box (not a bomb) in the sewers of Gotham, than actually getting introduced to all the heroes again, I can do that by reading their own series.
A lot of the trouble with comics today is that they have to be so heavily serialized in order to turn them into a complete story for the trades.
I think they need to go back to making more anthology type comics, with the massive story arcs it's like eating snack food, you're never going to feel as satisfied reading it as you would a full story contained within just one comic or eating a full meal. During the silver age (although very silly stories) DC would jam pack a lot of their series with at least 3 features in them and they would still only be about 20some pages long.
Now saying all of that, I am optimistic on one side about DC's future with this relaunch but not judging by this issue of Justice League. I have a feeling in another year or two yet another crises will show up and the heroes and villains on New Earth will meet these ones.
On the other more cynical side I'm thinking, Marvel tried this with Heroes Reborn and look how well that ended up (and Jim Lee was involved with that too):P
My brief personal comments:
I liked the new JLA well enough, I guess.
I think the thing with Batman and Hal's ring was to prove that he's "The God Damned Batman"! :-)
It probably could have been done better, though, to show that even in a group with powerhouses like Supes and Hal he is still an effective character.
Even though I knew about Wildstorm being absorbed into the "DC Multiverse" at large, I'm still confused about the 'timelines' thing and all>
What does this mean for the 52 'Alternate Realities'? Do they no longer exist as well? (oh, and I can hear the Legion of Super-Heroes writes saying "Dammit! Not Again!!!!) ^_^
One final comment: Maybe you should consider a 'donations' button, kind of like Spoony has on his site (last I recall, anyway). This will let us fans help offset the cost of you keeping us entertained with your reviews :-)
As a new reader of comic books in general I have started with flashpoint and the new DC universe. I have found flashpoint a good start off point. The way it set up the new universe as an improvement over the short lived one lead to me wanting the flash to hit the re-set switch so to speak.
This has lead to me subscribing to about 15 of the new comic series to find out what I like and want to continue with. So I suppose they succeeded in getting me into comic books.
Overall the new Justice league introduced me to the characters as they now are quite well and I plan on becoming a long term comic reader (blame Lewis also shares as he brought comics to me over the last few years leading me to try them over that time). I hope that over time the older comic readers can join me in enjoying this new continuity for what it is instead of what it isn't and will never be again.
"Fixing things that aren't broken"?
The whole thing was broken!
Marvel is too!
I don't think they'll get it right this time either, but claiming that it wasn't broken is just preposterous
Also, DC is planning to release all the 52 #1 issues in a single TPB, it could spare the time
To all the whiners who say that they won't read DC untill they revert back to their old continuity, I'd like to say that I hope they'll NEVER return to the old continuity
I honestly hated the old continuity
Loved the individual stories and characters, but hated the way the world was built after CoIE.
This new version isn't any better, but the fact that I had no emotional investment in the old continuity helps me enjoying the suffering of the fanboys.
I have no hopes of DC ever constructing their world the way I'd like it to, but I can still enjoy the new stories.
I like how they incorporated old Image characters into the continuity. After all that moping during the past few years, the DC universe seriously needs an injection of some good old hot-blooded 90s spirit!
Honestly, Justice League #1 wasn't even on my list of anticipated titles, seemed too generic from the start.
The stuff on my list would be:
Aquaman (because, hey! It's Aquaman!)
Grant Morrison's Action Comics (love how he seems to be returning to Superman's old Golden Age persona)
Peter Milligan's Red Lanterns (by the creator of the awesome X-Statix, not to mention it has Dex-Starr!)
Brian Azarello's Wonder Woman (loved "Superman for Tomorrow" as well as the God of Wae feel the previews seem to have)
Peter Milligan's Dark Justice League (some people might find the idea of a team of Vertigo characters sacrilegious, I think it's awesome)
Jeff Lemire's Animal Man (was a fan of Animal Man ever since the Grant Morrison run, and I love Jeff Lemire's Sweet Tooth)
Swamp Thing (as a fan of the Alan Moore run, I may give this boy a chance)
Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. by Jeff Lemire (do I even need to explain this?)
Stormwatch (some of the greatest stuff ever to be published at Image, now part of the DC universe, the Martian Manhunter is joining the ride, and the dynamic duo of Apollo and Midnighter are once again free to spread their pure awesome man-love!)
Figured this was big enough to make my first post...
Speaking as one of the new readers DC is trying to attract with this thing, Justice League #1 fails. I thought that it was OK in and of itself, quite good in parts, but overall it didn't make me want to get issue 2, or any of the other DCnU series. My full thoughts are here (Note: I give more ideas in a subsequent post there).
Well, I might check out the new Batman when it's reprinted over here, but that't because a) it's the goddamn Batman, and b) I heard Alan Grant is going to be writing it.
Oh, and I like That's All I'm Saying, and would like to see more :)
Reading all 52 comics? I'd say you have a DC bias.
Though if Suicide Squad 1 sucks (It will) might I suggest Avengers Academy? Best Marvel Book you're not reading!
This is probably just me thinking this but I feel that Flashpoint might've worked a little better if it ran for a few more issues (8 issue overall so just an extra 3). Having only read the main story and not the tie-ins yet (I do have interest in Batman Knight of Vengeance thanks to Flashpoint, so I went and bought the three issues), it seemed like the story had promise but didn't capitalize on it (although the ending pages with both Barry and Bruce I did like).
As for JL#1, I did like it despite a few of the shortcomings and odd moments. Looking forward to the rest of the new 52 reviews.
Hey Lewis, the new series is a great idea and I liked this episode.
So far, I like the slight redesign on Batman (since body armour makes sense for Bruce), hate the new Superman costume (body armour DOESN'T make sense for Supes unless his powers are massively downgraded) and there's something about Wondy's costume which just looks wrong to me. Can't put my finger on it but it just looks "off" to me.
Still planning on picking up Suicide Squad, BoP, Red Lanterns, Batgirl and Justice League Dark (Constintine in the main DCU could be a lot of fun).
Again, to people considering to get Suicide Squad 1, DON'T!
Glass is a writer who prefers blood over story, and his Legion of Doom Story shows it.
He also criticized the old Suicide Squad for being lame because "Villains don't play poker or drink coffee! They should be on kill mode 24/7!" All interviews scream that this will be bad!
Don't get it because you like Harley Quinn or anything like that. It's just going to be a 90's gorefest!
Flash Pt felt like a episode from Booster Gold in Flash version, rather than a great even comic. Wait, I think that Booster Gold did much better.
As always great work Lewis. i may get some hate from people but I'm grateful for this new timeline. while i do intend to get into the older timeline I've also been wanting to get into a timeline from the start and this is a great opportunity for me, and if you do continue to read this new DC timeline like you said its even better that i have recommendations. can't wait to see more
" It's just going to be a 90's gorefest!"
I should SO get that!
I've been kinda missing the old-school run-and-gun action with tons of explosions
I agree with (mostly) everything, but I had the complete opposite reaction to Batman yoinking the ring. Is it plausible? No. Is it another example of how the writers have made Batman into a Chuck Norris figure who can take on the entire DCU blindfolded? Yes. However, it was (in my opinion), absolutely hilarious, and, more importantly, it's a bit of justification as to why Batman can be on a team with a bunch of superhumans. If you don't make Batman the biggest badass on the Justice League, he quickly loses any purpose of being there.
Ugh. Revamps. How many times has DC tried restarting things...in just five years? So many issue #1's... of titles that already exist!
Here's what they could have done instead of starting a new Universe: Keep the old one, but have a period of time where crossovers and references to obscure continuity is kept to a minimum so new readers aren't overwhelmed.
As for JL #1, just have a page showing the roster and explaining origin and general history AS USUAL, then show an already established team, or a team at the point where they have just formed or are about to and on their first mission. Done.
I thought JL 1 was enjoyable even though it didn't do what it was meant to, but let's hope DC gets their crap together, or they'll have a whole 'nother set of problems they'll probably try to fix with another revamp 5 months from now.
I really loved this, Linkara. My one big beef with Atop the Fourth Wall has always been that you never actually reviewed relevant comics. It was always stuff that was either notoriously bad (like Cry for Justice) or obviously bad (like the Kool-Aid Man). In other words, they were always no-brainers.
But this series seems new and fresh and useful and a really good use for your considerable talent. Thank you.
I love the format - looking forward to the next one.
My main problem is with what is targeted outside of mainstream DC and Marvel. What I think people go into the Independents/Vertigo for is something outside of the medium's norms. Here's one suggestion: The Filth. By all accounts it sounds like a bizarre, weird, incomprehensible mess and is EXACTLY what people expect out of Vertigo or Independent publishers. (Hopefully not as a main episode but as a crossover review with Oancitizen.)
Although you made some mistakes in this video (which I'm sure the other commentors have pointed out to you dozens of times by now), I'm glad that you've decided to start this new series, and I hope you continue it. I'm looking forward to getting your impression on the very comics I'll be struggling to choose between from week to week.
Although, I don't take issue with your opinion of Batman being able to remove Hal's ring, I do take issue with your example of the ring falling off during space flight due to an ear worm. Rings, if sized right, don't have a tenancy to just fall off or require concentration to keep them off.
In the book, an outside force (Batman) was effecting the ring.
Semantics, I know.
Keep up the good work, I love your shows.
The ring scene? Oh that was just Geoff Johns pulling a "Frank Miller..." Speaking of Frank, I bet that little scene probably gave him a stiffy.
I'm buying for Jim Lee.
I thought that the end of Flashpoint was the perfect send off for the DCU we all love, but it went a different route than many would have liked. Instead of a send off where Superman and Batman lead all the heroes against an incredible foe it was an emotional send-off about closure. I mean it ended with Batman after all the years receiving affirmation from his father that he approved of what he was doing. To me that was the perfect way to tie up the old DCU by giving Bruce Wayne the thing he has wanted his entire career.
Not sure if you've heard abut it or seen her yet. But that mystery woman has appeared in the background of every single #1 of DCnu thus far. Usually in a crowd.
Yup... she's in JL #1 too. Just spotted her.
I'm loving this series already. Could you put it up on itunes too?
C.L.A.W.S.: 10-07-2011
Clearly Loudly All We Say is an opinionated review of some comic books initially reviewed by Mr.Lewis Lovhaug - our former landlord and keeper of the multitransdimensional hub existent below the fourth wall which is connected to our basement in a loosely regular on-off-and on again basis - his own reviews knows as That's All I'm Saying or TAIS inspired a small group of basement dwellers known as "The Basement Dwellers Square Monthly 101" or B.D.S.M.101 for short to gather together on our communitorial basement and slideshow the comics in some sort of Mystery Science Fiction Theater 3000 fashion while making and recording our thoughts, comments and reactions about this specific kind of cultural entertainment and post the less offensive content on the web but :
"According to the Khitomer Accords each opinionated reviewer must respect the standards, fashion and personal tastes of each other therefore avoiding unnecessary confrontational, controversial, and other cons i can remember now (it's almost 8am here now) so the BDSM 101 will be restricted to my own blog and any CLAWS will be limited to give a rating about the suggested readings with opinions about them shortly addressing the issue in question as Awesome, Worth Reading, Idiotic and Deserve a Rant while the opinions given by Mr. Lovhaug about the same matters will be only rated as Accurate or Not despite any further detail to be considered in the future about any specific book. Each opinionated reviewer must be considered as a winner by themselves for sharing the common pains and joys of following the current comic book shows both appreciate so much."
Quoting the closing arguments of the ambassador and american version of The Doctor who help forge this agreement:
The Doctor(played by Mr. Chuck Sonnerberg): "One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs, and prove to me I am not mistaken in mine.That it is true that in the future, you two will become fast friends. You will work together." *both fellows looking at the man from the blue box in obvious disbelief at such a non sense*
Ok, everything set let's go to Clearly Loudly All We Say #0 :
Flashpoint #5 Sucks, it's Idiotic and the Review was Accurate as well really generous, DC should thank Lewis for stay professional opinionated, meanwhile the amateurs....(dramatic suspense tune);
Justice League #1, Poor Geof Johns, we don't know why DC keeps doing this kind of embarrassement to their artists and comic books, despite the fact this was probably planned and written six months ago the book is Idiotic and probably should deserve a rant, the Review again was Accurate and Mr.Lovhaug remains an inspiration for us to be professionals but really ranting our amateurishness out loud will be more fun than keep a gentleman's stand. It's everybody Superman now ? Because that punch should really be killed even The Goddamned Batman, if we want to see a brawl we go for the WWE.
Again Thank you for Mr. Lewis Lovhaug for be an inspiration as well an Officer and a Gentleman despite any visible military rank. (that TOS' Captains yellow shirt is honorary right ?)
End Credits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjF4K1dvTQI
Linkara! Awesome review as usual!
However, I HATE the new 52. The costumes rock! the characters don't.
while
i understand that the characters have pretty much run thier race in over 75 years, but this direction was pretty lame. Basically because it imho betrays what they stand for, except batman.. he is probably the closest to what bat man should be .. a hard ass. Or did i not read into him right?
Reconning Superman's marriage? did they take a cue from one more day?
and Wonder Woman being a militant amazon-xena wanna be? ok, i'm honestly not suprised by that, but still - bleh. and most of the other characters eh... makes me think that Frank Miller took over DC (also not loving the new DC bullet)!
But that's just my opinion. And had i the ability, Id bring Bob Kane, Bill Finer, Simon and Schuster and William Moulton Marston back from the dead to retake thier characters from the mess that is the new 52.
Again, things do have to change over time, but wow....This one hurt! Give me Flashpoint anyday!
I got a Flashpoint trade for the Wonder Woman and Aquaman sub-plot and I thought it was okay. In fact, I think it's Amazon's Attack done [slightly] better, in my opinon
SPOILER ALERT: The woman is Pandora from Greek mythology!!!!
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