Previous Clone Saga Videos!
Spider-Man #56 (Smoke and Mirrors, Part 3) - The very first episode of AT4W!
Maximum Clonage
The Greatest Responsibility
Planet of the Symbiotes
Power and Responsibility
A game of crossfire would be infinitely more enjoyable than this storyline.
Monday, October 21, 2013
Spider-Man: Crossfire
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98 comments:
To Will:
Rock on, freaky bro!
I think my guess for next week's secret comic is thrown out the window!
Having only discovered the show this past summer, this is the first time I've had to wait a week for a cliffhanger's resolution. It's going to be a long wait until next Monday. :)
I have to quibble with your statement at 13:45 that "Knowledge in and of itself is useless." Knowing the truth of things has been understood as a worthwhile end in and of itself throughout the course of Western civilization at least (I can't speak to others). It doesn't work for Traveler, though, because he's simultaneously portrayed here as someone of Deep Feeling and Sympathy who wants this knowledge in order to Save the World. And there, you're right--there's a missing step between "understanding Good and Evil" and "having the power to save the world."
(For next week, if the final reveal is what it seems, I'm guessing our Surprise Review is another Power Rangers comic. However, even though I started suspecting his involvement two weeks ago when Comicron One started moving, I do have to wonder if the King of Worms isn't simply using another mask.)
L̨it̡t̴le p͞i̢g̷,͜ oḩ ̷l͏it̸t̶lę pig̕,͜
W̨hy ̵won̡’͜t ̶you ͠le͘t̷ ̸me ͜i͜n?
Li͢ttl̕e҉ p͟i͘g҉, o̴h ̴l҉ittle͢ ͢p̨ìg̕,͏
I͝ s̢we̶ar ̨I̸’͟v͏è d̷on͘e ͟no s̕in.
́
͏W҉ḩen wi͠t̸ches͡ f͘ly͝ i̸n ̡dar͟k̡èst ni̸ght,
Ąn̕d̢ m̡ǫrt͡a͢l ̡s͏ouls t͢ak̷e ̢de̴adly͡ fri̸g̛h͢t͘,
Th͟e͘ ͡h̕erò can ̨no̸t̀ ̀wi̸n ͏th͘ís̵ ͜f̴i̧g̛h̴t,̧
̧T̛he K̢i͜ng ͝of͜ Wo͢ŕms͟ ̨is ̶c͢omi͝n͡g.
̵
̢Lįtt̴ļe p̵i͠g͞, ͢oh̢ li̡t̵tle ͘pig,
҉W̶h̕y͘ wo͜n’t̴ yo͞ư ͠le̸t͟ me in?̢
͞L͢it͟tl͏e ̕pìg͘, ̶o͢h l̴ittle ̧p̛i̕g,
I swear ҉I͝’̵v̴e d̶ǫn͏e no ̢si̵n͡.
̷
҉Th̴e̛ ̷d̸ar͜k ͡w̡ơl̷f r͝uns w͘it̴h blo̕odst̶aine̵d͝ ̸t͝eęt̨h̶,
S̷h̴ar͡p ̧as̡ sor͏row,̨ ̡lon͞g a͡s ͢gr͞i͞e͢f,
҉Y̨ou̸r͠ ̛ea̷rthy̷ ̸t̶i҉m̷é wi̴ļļ ̶bȩ ͜bu̷t br̛ie̸f̸,͢
͠F͢or so͟on y̧ou’ll b̕ę ͢şucc̀umb͟i͞n̵g.
̷
Litt͡l̡e ̵pi͟g, o̡h͞ l̸i͝t̢tle͜ ͜p͠ig,͢
̧Wh͞y̷ ̨ẃo͏n’͞t͢ y͏ou l͜et̕ ͜me in͜?
Li͞ttle pi͢g͝, ́o̡h͠ ̢li̛ttl̷e ͞p̸i̸g,
I sw͜ea͞r͏ I͠’̵ve d͠one n̕o̡ ̕si̢n͏.̀
͟Wít̴h b̴l͟o̧o͏d ̧up͢on̴ ͞yo̵ur ͠h͡and͠s yo̵u ͠cr̶y,̕
T̀h͡a̛t͟’̧s͘ oné m͘ore fri͏eņd ҉y̛ou͟’ve͠ cause͜d to ̵d̷ie,̢
̴It’s͠ ͠ti̵me̢ ̧you̡ bid̀ t̷hi̢s ͜wórl̴d g̸o͡odbye̷.
͟A͟t̴ l̸a͠st̡ he’̴l̸l be͝ f̕o͞ŕţhcòmin̛g.
F͢ool̢ish̡ ̸pi̛g̸,̡ oh ͡fo̢olìsh p͟i̧g,
̡You̕’̨v͞e̴ go͟ne an̨d̢ ͜let̛ ̀m̧e ͟in͡.̷
͝F͏o̷o͢ļişh̴ pi̢g͢,̶ ̸oh̨ ̷fooli̶s̛h ͏pig͡,
͝The ͜fun̶ ̕c҉a̕n̵ n͞o͢w b͠egin.
... Well now, I guess there are pants that are darkened now thanks to that ending.
And to think that after figuring out one of the messages these Anon comments are posting, I kinda sorta figured out one of the meaning to it. And somehow that turned out right. Granted one of those messages could have been a good taste in music, this might have backed things up. I don't know, this is my first attempt at cracking something and I'm not entirely sure if it is right or not (or I'm just falling for things).
By the way, you got yourself a Luxury Ball. Where did you get that?
A Luxury Ball? I guess you got it at the same place you purchased the magic gun. And....my V'ger theory got shot down.
You're right, a game of Crossfire would have been way more entertaining that this two-part mess. And, to think, I actually stuck with this massive storyline even after it wrapped up. -_-
Let's hope Linkara can get out of this jam and beat back the King of Worms next week.
TWO belts?! I... I figured it out! Judas Traveller is Tommy Wiseau! That cheesy outfit? He's just marketing Street Fashions!(sorry, I've been reading 'The Disaster Artist'... plus, I loathe the explanation for Traveller & Scrier so much that I'll subvert it with my own reasoning!)
I know it's a cheap shot, but it's actually really fun to read Traveller's nonsensical ramblings in Tom Hardy's Bane voice. Something about uber-pretentious dialogue just sounds great that way.
As for the episode... Linkara, I've got to give you credit. You do creepy exceedingly well. This didn't freak me out as much as the end of the Entity storyline did, but it's pretty damned effective. Pants to be darkened, indeed...
As someone who lives near NYC and remembers the 90s, no that Top of NYC sign/eyesore did not exist.
So is that the King of Worms or is it Lord Vyce?
Ah, The Days before ‘One More Day’. Where Peter making a deal with Evil wasn’t thought of and that he is mature about Aunt May pssing.
I understand a show needs drama, but that doesn’t mean one has to take any little speck of happiness that they have!
How did they revive Aunt May? I assume if it is about Clone Saga, is she a Clone?
Although, April can still be pretty Cold. I went to New York for Easter once and DANG it was Freezing!
Judas Traveller is those type of annoying villains, who are able to pull what they want out their rear side and even if what they’re doing is stupid, they treat it like it’s the most important thing in the History of Ever! There’s a Difference between Mystery and being Pretentious.
Also, Evil takes so many forms and reasons. There is no real evil. You got the Evil done by those who think they’re doing good and then there are some who do evil cause they’re insane. Big difference but the same result.
Also, studying on what it takes to be a Hero!? Why do I get the feeling Judas would be right at home in Marville!?
New York is in Ruins because I sent my team to blow up a Power Plant…And it’s Spiderman’s Fault!? NO, IT ISN’T! You can’t even turn that around to make it his fault. It’s like committing a crime in one country and pinning it on someone in another country, even when caught red handed!
Wait…King of Worms…Or a Lord…
Looking forward to seeing the next part, Linkara. ;3
YES! As soon as those lights went red, I KNEW it would be Vyce! Awesome!
No new opening title sequence this year? You've always debuted a new one on the anniversary episode. Anyway, that plushy Pollo is CUTE! Was that your making or that of a fan?
"No new opening title sequence this year? You've always debuted a new one on the anniversary episode."
Since the new outfit will debut next week, I decided to hold off on the new theme song until Secret Origins Month.
Gotta admit: I'm a bit confused. The voice sounded pretty much exactly like Vyce. Is it him? Or is the infamous King of Worms? Or better yet: Has Vyce always been the King of Worms and started chasing the Entity to consume its power for his own?
Ok didn't see that one coming.
Also who else thought the amp on Jaeris' guitar was gonna send him flying ala Back To The Future?
Gotta say, I'm a little underwhelmed at the big cliffhanger reveal at the end of this one, mostly because you've pretty much pulled this exact same reveal before. So, will we get a storyline next year where Harvey goes evil but it turns out he's being possessed by Lord Vyce?
Anyway, hopefully next week's storyline bits will make up for that.
Speaking of Judas, what do you think of the Nu52's decisión of not only giving the Phantom Stranger a specific backstory, but making him Judas Iscariot himself?
Vyce? So much for not having to worry about him...
Actually, Judas Traveler makes perfect sense to me from the info we were given so far
He's either the actual Judas, or perhaps Cain, Lazarus, The Wandering Jew, or maybe just some fallen angel
He's doomed to walk the earth for all eternity, until he understands God's plan (or some other spiritual understanding)
And it can be only then that he can ascend into the heavens
His bizarre and convoluted "experiments" are the result of his ever increasing despair, and going to great lengths and extremes to learn the truth he needs
They may not make any real sense any more, but his mind could have become so twisted by the millennia of despair and constant failure, that he's no longer able to recognize how pointless and counter-productive they have become
It's kinda like something from a Persona game
Knowledge isn't in in of itself meaningless, why do scientists study outer space otherwise, or philosophers do anything.
Sincé you studied philosophy I'm assuming that's not what you meant, you meant no amount of knowledge is worth killing millions of people right?
16:58, HMMMM! Hey someone get me a phone to tell Kubo Tite (the creator of Bleach) that!
Anonymous 12:33:
(Sigh.) I wouldn't mind it so much if those revelations didn't manage to be tied in with making the New 52 take on The Question tied in with some "super ultra maxi magic for real you guys" garbage.
Anonymous 12:38:
Except what he's saying is that the gathering of knowledge just for the sake of it is. Scientists study outer space for a variety of reasons, one of those being the location of life, hopefully, but not necessarily, intelligent.
Happy Fifth Anniversary ATFW.
I've only been watching for an year, but I hope this is around for another five years.
To know the unknowable, to free humankind from the prison of self...
To denounce the evils of truth and love, to extend our reach to the stars above!
Judas Traveller's motivations make even less sense than Team Rocket's.
Anonymous 12:38,
I think he meant "that SPECIFIC knowledge is meaningless in and of itself".
More that knowledge requires APPLICATION to something.
Scientific discovery about our universe has practical application and study and a reason to be explored. It's why it irks me whenever we have crazy scientists in media who simply want to explore JUST to have the knowledge. Well la-dee-da, jerkass - you sacrificed people's lives and endangered people to learn scientific trivia and are now going to die without getting to share that information. The knowledge is worthless other than for smug satisfaction if you're not going to DO anything with the knowledge.
VYCE!
So he's been the one possessing Nimue or has he always been the King of Worms and was chasing the Entity in order to prove himself more powerful then the nevershould?
Or perhaps he's simply a clockwork servant of the Entity's youngest cousin?
I hope some of these questions are answered in next week's review.
What no joke referring to CNN's Cross-Fire
On the left, I am Ben Reilly and on the right, I am Peter Parker and this is Cross-Fire
"Are you afraid ?"
Why does it sound to me like "What is it you fear ?" ?
Ah well, maybe I'm just over-interpreting again.
Haha, called it! It was Vyce!
"Happy Fifth Anniversary ATFW.
I've only been watching for an year, but I hope this is around for another five years."
Here's hoping!
Also, just FYI: I approve all comments, which is why your comment may not show up right away - no need to keep trying to post 20 times or so. ^_~
Happy 5th
Can't believe you went on for this long! :D
So Nimue is trying to kill Linkara ,but at least she was nice enough to start the theme song?
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
What is this about a new outfit Linkara? Why are you changing it! It's classic!
Also, great review
Was that actually Will playing? If so, that's pretty awesome!
Also, Linkara, I know you have limited actors at your disposal, but you really need to find a way to get someone else to voice some of these characters! The first time Vyce spoke, I thought it was Sierra because your two synthesized voices sounded so similar! Not a real complaint, obviously, but it did numb the shock of the reveal a tad.
Still trembling anyway, though. Well done!
So apparently those guys were correct...gotta admit, I let my suspension of disbelief get the best of me. But what do you expect when half of your villains have Joker Immunity.
Happy 5 years! :)
That Venom deal is looking so much better in comparison.
Amazing Spider-Man 400 was a great issue. Only ruined by the retcon later on that was just really stupid. Still anything in OMD or Not So Superior Dr Octopus makes it look brilliant. Cause Aunt May couldn't be left dead and happy with uncle ben in afterlie. Couldn't have one of the sweet and nices moment in Spider-Man History. Gotta have something really stupid.
Oh crap I had a bad feeling it was vyce somehow. The fact that the that the ship was flying out to who knows where made me wonder if it was looking for vyce was last seen. Can't wait to see where this goes.
Just like to point out that bit about Traveler's college expierence hit a bit too close to home, man. A bit too close.
This sort of story sounds like part of why people felt the Clone Saga lasted too long, using a character that adds nothing over and over in stories that add nothing, over and over.
Nice touch to see Linkara going about his work while reviewing the comic: quite the multitasking job there. Shows how good he's gotten at this gig.
Yes! I was right. Wooo! Back up program of Lord Vyce in the computer system screwing with nimue.
Poor nimue though. :'( Vyce you jerk...
Yes! I was right. Wooo! Back up program of Lord Vyce in the computer system screwing with nimue.
Poor nimue though. :'( Vyce you jerk...
@Kaor: I think he means the new super battle outfit. Remember, each time Lewis has done a huge storyline-ending fight, he's busted out a new combat outfit.
"@Kaor: I think he means the new super battle outfit. Remember, each time Lewis has done a huge storyline-ending fight, he's busted out a new combat outfit."
No, it's a full on new reviewing outfit.
It's been five years wearing the same clothes and I feel it's time for a change, especially since the increased amount of travelling I've done puts the outfit at risk of getting lost and it has no replacements. The new outfit will look good and have spares of everything in case it's lost or damaged.
HOW COULD I HAVE NOT SEEN THIS COMING! The clockwork soliders are Vyce's! He has those magic robot shades! I agree with the commenter somewhere above me who says that the real reason that Vyce chased the entity was to take it's power for his own. It all makes so much sense! We don't know what Vyce looks like underneath his armor, if he was a literal king of worms, he could be made out of them, like a larval mage or something. Or he could just be an emissary of the King of Worms and not even know it. Who knows. See you next week for the possibly shocking conclusion guys!
First: Happy Fifth Anniversary, Linkara! It's been a great 5 years worth of shows. Here's to many more!
That said, I think you could've used something better for this episode than another Clone Saga comic. Especially one as lame as this. Oh well.
In fact, the Nimue plotline was more interesting. I hope she comes back, I like her. And it would be cool if Linkara and The Gunman teamed up against Vyce or whatever the menace is.
See you next week!
First, I would like to say this:
Happy Fifth Anniversary!!! *pops the cork on a champagne bottle*
Now to the review:
While I admit that I don't know a lot in regards to the Marvel Universe, this two-part event seems to have a plot that not only utilizes the wrong characters, but makes their actions inconsequential. If anything they were probably better off keeping the original plot (proving Peter's innocence) and having a different hero fight Traveler. But even if they had to use Spiderman, couldn't the writers have had another hero (or even that Scried guy) assist him? Or was there some kind of reason why Traveler had to narrowly focus on Spiderman?
In regards to the storyline:
We barely get enough time to mourn Nimue before all hell broke loose. I hope Linkara and the Gunslinger can get out of this one in one piece...
So, is Will the Boston fan, or was that bit your idea, Lewis? Loved it either way.
I'm not calling that voice Vyce. Not just yet anyway, I don't like to say "I called it/ I knew it" when the puzzle pieces are still missing.As for the anon comment at oct 21 2013 at 10:21 a.m. I think, Worm King wants to kill Linkara like a pig. I got chills down my spine. I still wonder if We're gonna find out why 90's kid took the book.It still bugs me and I know, I'll just wait till next review. I feel bad that Nimue was "killed". Although, if choose so, Linkara could rebuild her.
Yeah, I'm still holding out hope that it is not Lord Vyce since I feel it's still too soon to have another story arc with him as the main villain.
The first time was awesome, this time, it's kind of lame.
Also, are we ever going to see a story arc where we know exactly who or what the main villain is throughout?
"Also, are we ever going to see a story arc where we know exactly who or what the main villain is throughout?"
Yep. The next one.
Well, that's one way of taking a ship back. And on a more lighter note Will if your reading this you are a damn good guitarist! Happy 5th Anniversary and here's to many more!
Happy fifth anniversary, Linkara.
And may more come.
By the way, nice playing, Will.
Okay, first, Happy Anniversary!
Wow, you've lasted longer than one of my favorite TV shows, I'm impressed.
And WOW does that sound condescending when typed, I totally meant that genuinely and nicely I promise.
Vyce said he couldn't transfer out. Did part of him manage to get out?
Oh I'm so worried for Nimue.
Did you take something apart for all the wire bits or just raid a hobby shop?
I knew you needed a Technomancer for Babylon 5.
Am VERY excited for next week.
@dragons_dusk
Congratulations on your fifth anniversary Lewis! And a job well done on your guitar solo Will!
You are brave to dive once more into the madness that is "the Clone Saga", even if it's just once a year! Between 1992 and 1993 I was dabbling a bit in comic collecting, but I didn't start to really collect comics until 1994 or 1995. Some of those comics I fondly remember, like "The Age of Apocalypse"; others, like "the Clone Saga" I very much do not. It basically stands as a reminder of everything that Marvel was doing wrong in the period leading to Marvel's bankruptcy.
Regarding this review, I'm going to have to disagree with you about pursuing knowledge for it's own sake being a bad motivation. One of Marvel's most iconic characters, created by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, has a single motivation: to watch everything that happens, but never interfere. That's right, Uatu the Watcher is a cosmic being whose motivation boils down to gaining knowledge. The difference is that Uatu is essentially an open book; his people shared knowledge with other species, who abused that knowledge. Ever since, the Watchers have taken a sacred oath to remain neutral observers. Uatu sometimes cheats by manifesting visibly at major events, but he otherwise pursues his goals in a harmless manner. (Jokes about a peeping tom on the dark side of the Moon to the contrary.)
Had the "Spider-Man" writers decided to make Judas Traveler a less powerful individual whose sole motive was the study of criminal behavior, he would have been a good addition to Spidey's Rogues Gallery. Not only is the guy too powerful, his motives make no sense. A better way to introduce the character would have been to have Peter be introduced to him at the Daily Bugle offices, where Jonah has offered Traveler and his Host a "ride-a-long" with Peter Parker, the hotshot photographer who always takes pictures of Spider-Man. Suddenly Peter had no idea how to shake these guys... until the Spider-Clone swings by to Peter's shock and disbelief.
Wow, in one paragraph I came up with a better way for the Clone Sage to have begun than J.M. DeMatteiss or Tom DeFalco. Should I be worried about that? :D
Anyways, happy anniversary Lewis!
I have a theory: What if that's not Vyce? Maybe the Worm King is just using the voice of Vyce?
Are your clothes set on fire at the end of the story or something?
Why on earth would you mess up the classics?
Damn you, Mannimarco! You're a Necromancer, King of Worms, not a computer hacker!
Following up on your "Two Face Cosplay" line, this has been bugging me for a while:
Does DC exist in the Marvel universe?
Does Marvel exist in the DC 'verse?
There are some bizarre cultural snarls that come up in the absence of comic books. Like Stalin. Really. In Russian, Stalin roughly translates to "Man of Steel" a name that the despot chose BECAUSE of Superman. No. Seriously.
Somebody help a brother out!
Another really good review of a weird and crappy story.
I agree with SMAXZO. This reveal at the end...has me suspicious. Many other people have brought up good points that could point to Vyce having been the King of Worms from the start. However, I'm unsure if this is true. I remember Linkara mentioning the aspect of the King of Worms trying to harness the power of fear and that its face was fear personified. I theorize that perhaps that Vyce isn't the King but instead using Vyce's voice to acting Linkara's fear of Vyce as Vyce has proved to be one of the most powerful opponent Linkara has faced. While Linkara mentions to Mechakara that he almost killed him, Vyce seemed to be even closer to killing Linkara than old MetalMouth. Before discovering his weakness, Vyce seemed like an unstoppable force who shrugged off Linkara's attempts to attack him.
I look forward to the next episode and seeing your new look.^^
The Comic: Gee, another spiderman comic where nothing happens...
Your Arc: I was wondering how/when he was going to come back, and unlike others I'm dead positive it's *him*.
Other: That tune during the bit with the guitar sounded familiar but I can't quite put my finger on it.
Fiery Little One
Saw it as of last episode, but I hoped it wouldn't be so. That last "Help me" sound'd so alone. Nimue you poor dear, come back to us soundly.
Hey, Linkara, congrats on your fifth year. I gotta say, these episodes are usually my favourite. The sheer ineptitude is always fun to see you riff.
Judas Traveller is just an absolute failure in every regard. But it's like a train wreck; it's horrible, but you just can't look away.
Overall, Linkara, great episode. I spent way longer than I should have adding to your Funny/2013 page on TvTropes.
And regarding the Clone Saga, I really just have to get this off my chest.
While the Clone Saga is trash and symbolic of so much that is wrong in the comics industry, the waste of Ben Reilly's character is the real tragedy. Throughout your videos, I've noticed that Ben had real potential as a character. Seriously, if they wanted a young Spidey to date and such, why NOT just use Reilly? Sure, Peter has become too attached to the Spidey character for that, but so what?! Then give Ben his OWN book! Let Spidey be the married Spider-Man, and have Ben for the stories that you couldn't have Peter in while married. Set him up with Carlie Cooper if you really want to! So what if Ben turned out to be a clone? That doesn't mean he's completely invalid as a character! Just have him retain the Scarlet Spider identity. I've seen it work, Marvel. You know where? IN YOUR SCARLET SPIDER SERIES! Kaine was nowhere near as likeable as Ben Reilly, but they still gave HIM his own book, and it's actually pretty good. Kaine's a clone, and people still read his series! He's the more immature, raw Spidey. Scarlet Spider shows that even one of the worst characters from one fo the worst storylines in comics could be made compelling (in the Clone Saga, he wasn't much better than Traveller), so why not do the same with a character who was actually LIKEABLE in that same storyline?!
Oh well, whatever. At least I got Kaine as Scarlet Spider from this mess. Hopefully the character isn't screwed over in the New Warriors title, though I'm not holding my breathe, and there's no word of what's gonna happen to his supporting cast. Whatever, Marvel. Just don't screw up Ultimate Spider-Man.
@ 00:03 - … is this liz?... nope wait… Jeris?! Awe Jeris let his hair down. That reminds me, I need to buy a sailormoon wig…
@ 00:45 - damn Wolfgram, you can play!
@ 01:07 - Um… pajama pants are okay in public; and you could in fact be the super (anti?) hero to start a fashion trend, Imagine the bad comics that could be written. Pajama pants Man! “The Lounginator!” ©2013 Rowan LeFey. Who knows maybe supes and bats are sick of wearing their skivvies and will opt for Pajama pants in the future.
@ 03:23 - YAY! (does Kermit flops)
@ 06:55 - I almost did that in unison with you. I was one Sunday ahead ;). Little bit too obvious of a joke but I somehow think your fans would have put in hate mail if you didn't.
@ 07:16 - Actually we had a three foot snow storm in April one year. People still talk about it here…
@ 07:56 - that is so wrong *laughs*
@ 09:53 – it’s been a while since you've done little story bits throughout an episode. I LOVE this. <3 Thanks for the extra work this week Lewis.
@ 11:18 – title drop, that is when you tell your audience rather than show them why the title is what the title is. This is common in music.
@ 11:43 – we get it Judas Traveller has been to walmart.
@ 11:53 – I really hope that’s not secretly a bomb…
@ 13:46 – on a ship Nimue’s size you should have several hours of air. However when you allow yourself to get angry and raise your voice you go through the air you have quicker. Linkara should become a browncoat is he isn’t already.
@ 16:13 - is that a plushie pollo?
@ 17:41 – bwahahaha that one caught me off guard.
@ 18:31 – two belts can be a useful fashion statement when one of them is holding a bag and the other your pants. My steampunk outfit has that.
@ 19:01 – Doesn’t that kinda sound like song lyrics to you. Like bad 90’s ballad lyrics.
(enter 90’s chick) 90’s chick: Dudeeetteh! Like 90’s ballads are awesome! They’re like Madonna and Blondie were doing drugs and making out.
@ - 1, no. 2, Rowan, duh. 3, Yes… chocolate.
The ending – it almost sounded like if the Entity was spliced with Vice (after all Vice is a data ghost at this point). Also, I knew that didn’t sound like Nimue. The first time we saw that something was up with Nimue I thought she sounded rather manly.
Nah the current iteration of the Phantom Stranger is the whitest Judas ever... And the more I think of it, I prefer this new origin at least to the "Wandering Jew" origin (PS had four different possible origins before), since the Wandering Jew story is hella problematic.
Actually now that I think of it Phantom Stranger, in his original incarnation, is basically the "right way", to do the Judas T type character. He's mysterious, no one including the writers knew which of the three origins were real or if indeed it was something else all together... however his characterization and modus operandi were consistent so you could still understand the character even if you didn't know where he was coming from.
Another good example is Snake-eyes from GI Joe, Larry Hama is very famous for not plotting things ahead and making stuff up as he goes along (he often says he doesn't know what will happen on page 22 of a comic until he's finished page 21). When Snake-eyes was introduced everything about him was a total mystery, he was this commando guy no one knew anything about and when details like Snake-eyes and Storm Shadow sharing the same tattoo Larry didn't know what that meant at the time other than that it was something to be fleshed out later. You can make it up as you go along as long as you stick to what you make up... If you say he's centuries old, either stick to it or give him a logical reason for lying about it.
Though in the case of Snake-eyes it helps that GI Joe was largely helmed by one writer for it's entire run, (continuing on to the current revived run), the clone saga definitely had too many chefs.
Hey linkara, i have no problem if you feel like its time for a costume change, it is your show after all, but i was just wandering whether or not it will be anything more than a different jacket and hat, or if your planing on drastically changing your uniform into something completely different.
In any case, i loved your review and I'm looking forward to seeing how this storyline concludes next week,
will you ever post another review from the ultimate universe?
well i hae to say im a bit dissapointed about this reveal, i mean its completely logical, but also far to obvious. i mean from what i can see there where quite a large portion of viewers who figured it out since the king of worms part were revealed. personally i thought vyce was a red herring, to keep us distracted from the actual brilliant reveal. i mean i was excpecting something like the missingo reveal, that shocked everybody. but hey, on the bright side maybe vyce will finaly get back his body and be awesome again.
a for next weeks reiew, im guessing a pokemon one.
"well i hae to say im a bit dissapointed about this reveal, i mean its completely logical, but also far to obvious. i mean from what i can see there where quite a large portion of viewers who figured it out since the king of worms part were revealed."
Actually, most people were still guessing the King of Worms.
Part of the idea of this was to lay out about half a dozen different red herrings that were all perfectly logical, but fail to address the one it actually was. Those red herrings were the King of Worms, Sierra, the US government trying to get their hands on it, or just like what Jaeris suggested - that Nimue was simply going insane.
"Actually, most people were still guessing the King of Worms.
Part of the idea of this was to lay out about half a dozen different red herrings that were all perfectly logical, but fail to address the one it actually was. Those red herrings were the King of Worms, Sierra, the US government trying to get their hands on it, or just like what Jaeris suggested - that Nimue was simply going insane."
The government was supposed to be a red-herring? But you made two or three references to this Alan character whom we never see; he didn't sound overly aggressive. Also, I though Sierra was reprogrammed to be completely subservient to Jaeris. I thought the red-herring was just the King of Worms.
*Throws confetti made up of torn up Liefeld comics, One More Day, and Marville* HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!
Congratulations on five years of tearing apart bad comics! (Though I only really started watching last year) :P
The comic: Wow...that was...bad. Boring and bad.
Storyline: I feel for poor Jaeris. I really do. No one should have to put on pants if they don't want to. Couldn't he have just rescued Linkara in his boxers?
HOLY MOTHER OF GOD IT'S VYCE! *Hides under the bed*
"The government was supposed to be a red-herring? But you made two or three references to this Alan character whom we never see; he didn't sound overly aggressive. Also, I though Sierra was reprogrammed to be completely subservient to Jaeris. I thought the red-herring was just the King of Worms."
I never said it was the King of Worms, either, but everyone GUESSED it was. Because the great thing about humans, as the 8th Doctor once said, is that we're "always seeing patterns in things that aren't there." If you talk about one thing enough, you lay enough scraps or clues that point in one direction, it's easy to make people THINK they know what direction things are going in when in reality they're way off. People guessed Sierra because of his snippy attitude with Pollo or that, like so many times in fiction, Jaeris had reprogrammed Sierra too well and was trying to kill Nimue or Linkara to protect him or other such things - your basic "I have to protect you by hurting others; it's for your own good" kind of a thing. The King of Worms was the big red herring, but I laid out the idea for Allen and the government by simply letting it be a background detail and people picked up on that, thinking that maybe that was the answer because I hadn't dwelled on it within the show, either.
It's all about the deception and misdirection - what's going to go exactly like you EXPECT it to go... and what isn't.
I'm surprised you didn't mention something else weird about how Traveller was drawn-he looks like he's about nine and a half feet tall, when he's against Spider-Man.
Ah, the famous "That Aunt May that died was actually an imposter!"-story. Sometimes I wonder if comics only have ongoing storylines just so editors can retcon them in the most ridiculous way possible.
Oh, and happy 5th anniversary :D !
And man, Judas is like the avatar of "hack writing to cover up plotholes and make your story seem deeper than it actually is" <_<
"I never said it was the King of Worms, either, but everyone GUESSED it was."
Ok, I should phrased that clearer. I meant it was the red herring for ME meaning that is where I personally thought the story was headed.
"People guessed Sierra because of his snippy attitude with Pollo or that, like so many times in fiction, Jaeris had reprogrammed Sierra too well and was trying to kill Nimue or Linkara to protect him or other such things - your basic "I have to protect you by hurting others; it's for your own good" kind of a thing."
I guess I can kinda see why some people would suspect him though I thought it was a bit too obvious (also, see the Good Is Not Nice trope) and I know you don't like to go for the obvious conclusion. To me, it was either going to the King of Worms or something else entirely. I didn't expect Vyce so mission accomplished.
"The King of Worms was the big red herring, but I laid out the idea for Allen and the government by simply letting it be a background detail and people picked up on that, thinking that maybe that was the answer because I hadn't dwelled on it within the show, either."
Ok, it is good not to make it too obvious. I suppose I just figured you would never go for a more mundane threat or the "evil government" tropes.
Sorry if I came across as harping. I guess I was just a bit baffled that you intended these things that made very little impression on me as red-herrings and overreacted. Then again, I suppose it's easy to criticize these things in hindsight. Happy anniversary and I look forward to next week.
Well, to be fair, the Sphynx from the Mystery Men movie was also only mysterious to be mysterious, with no real back story, and rather loosely-defined powers.
Still, the Sphynx was played for laughs, and was probably intended as a -parody- of this kind of stuff. Also, they didn't try to make him seem omnipotent, and his motives didn't shift on a dime.
That's the real killer here. They keep dropping hints to the motives of this character, and they can't even be bothered to be consistent in -that.- Many of these motives contradict each other. Excuse me? Spider-man writers? May I introduce you to the law of non-contradiction, please?
How does a geothermal power plant even explode at all, let alone kill millions? There's nothing in them that even can explode, let alone be a danger to anyone outside the plant. And even something actually dangerous like a natural gas plant or an early soviet nuclear reactor can't kill anywhere near that many people even in a worst-case scenario.
Happy fifth anniversary, Champion, and here's to another five years of beating down bad comics.
Judas Traveller -- possibly the worst Spider-Man villain ever. He is badly-defined, poorly-written, and just plain boneheaded with no motivation except to be simply mysterious. Two issues wasted on this fool.
Holy Crap, Lord Vyce!?!? No, no, I will not say it is the actual Lord Vyce yet. Maybe it's the King of Worms using Lord Vyce's voice since Vyce was the first villain to actually defeat Linkara.
We'll know the answer next week . . .
@William Ngo:
The new New Warriors book will be written by Chris Yost, so Kaine gets to keep his character development.
In all honesty, I'm a bit torn on this ending. I can't say I'm dissapointed to see Vyce back, and the brief possibility he was the King of Worms was intriguing, but I really liked the idea of the King, as well as something legitimately driving Nimue insane instead of her just being a puppet (though I imagine she was, it's a bit early to say). Well, we'll find out next week.
Something just dawned on me. Is Vyce becoming an Eldritch Abomination in the same vein as the Entity?
"Part of the idea of this was to lay out about half a dozen different red herrings that were all perfectly logical, but fail to address the one it actually was."
I'm not mad, just disappointed.
I have a strong feeling this is not going to be like the Entity ending where I didn't like it at first and warmed up to it quickly.
At least I have my cartoons to keep me cheerful this holiday.
Always love Clone saga eps, but hadn't had the time in the last few days to get my comment up (blame Pokemon...or my male Eevee named Butch I just evolved into Sylveon). So yeah...Judas traveler...what were they thinking!? I get they were trying to use the philosophical bullcrap but did he have to keep droning on and on trying to create a disaster that he caused and blame it on Peter!? Or could there be a writer who could work with consistancy on who he was and why the hell he was doing what he was doing, particularly with all that was going on anyway?! (and this was before the nuttiness of Maximum Cloneage as you've noted) At what part did someone get the idea that a saga about the return of the clone needed some pseudo-psychological nut like him that may have had a past life!? Weirdly there are worse ideas like this at Marvel but at least they're more integrated in (see Mordred the Mystic)
As for the story...hoo boy, endgame time with the King of Worms...then again he sounds like Vyce is back so maybe...
Cant wait for Lordy Armormuch to come back.
The second Nimaway said "Starting Theme Song" I thought you were going to have her sing it.
"I'm not mad, just disappointed.
I have a strong feeling this is not going to be like the Entity ending where I didn't like it at first and warmed up to it quickly."
Well, if I did disappoint I'm sorry. I shall try to make the next storyline finale better. ^_^
"Well, if I did disappoint I'm sorry. I shall try to make the next storyline finale better. ^_^"
That's all I can ask for.
OMG !!!! I didn`t see that coming!
Great review btw and man that ending ! You never disappoint Linkara ! Can`t wait ti show my friends !
In the opening theme song, when the lyrics say, "Liefeld, you're not an artist," what comic is that Linkara is reviewing?
will the coded message from ravage 2099 be explained in the next episode
"In the opening theme song, when the lyrics say, "Liefeld, you're not an artist," what comic is that Linkara is reviewing?"
Youngblood #1: an artistic gaffe known as "Diehard's Crotch". It will always be in the OP (hopefully) as Linkara mentioned prior.
Can't avoid to see all of the Tennant's era Doctor Who crew and cast dancing to "500 miles" ;)
I wonder if 'Top Of New York' is a reference to 'Top Of The Sixes', a restaurant that was apparently there at the time, at the top of ... 666 Broad Way, my children! Muahahaha![/Moarte]
Actually, I'm probably wrong about the street it was on, but that was definitely the street number.
Also, it's where DC had their offices at the time.
~ Mik
I think it says a lot about my anticipation to see this arc's finale that I had a dream about seeing it on TV last night, and it was a huge epic thing too. Apparently, Linkara's ensuing struggle against Vyce caused reality to split into several different dimensions or something. :D
Great reveal and great review. I particularly got a kick out of the moments when the analysis is still going on while ripping things out of the ship. :P
Oh look, Vyce.
Speaking of everyone's favorite multiversal warlord, I read some wild theory somewhere linking him to the Green Knight. Oh,well.
On the topic of Vyce, perhaps the King Of Worms is somehow connected to him? We never did see...what was under that helmet.
I enjoy (still enjoying, paused the review to comment for fear of this comment escaping my memory) the mid-review plot-related activities in this.
Hi, Lewis! Did you see my comment on TGWTG? If so, yay! Assuming you saw it, I hope told Will what I said about his guitar playing. <3 Maybe I should post my comments here instead. (keyword: maybe)
"The new New Warriors book will be written by Chris Yost, so Kaine gets to keep his character development."
Yeah, I know that when I posted that comment. I'm specifically worried about what will happen to his supporting cast.
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